I think most agree, this patch is rough on melee. Ops and Sins have it a bit better due to roll and speed (which is why I'd rather have the lower cd over pw). Its most noticeable on pt and jugg. I love the jugg class and I personally think the damage is fine. Defensives suck. Saber reflect and focused defense were not brought up to 5.0 hp levels. That combined with mobility issues can make many players frustrated. TTK has increased considerably and I believe that effect is just a matter of opinion. A high TTK and high heals makes for too many stalemates imo. I actually enjoy the all dps ranked matches atm though. Snipers and mercs have it pretty good. That shouldn't be a debate. But most of the engineering discipline has been the same since launch. I wonder if simply giving some melee better mobility might be enough. I know in ranked it can be difficult just trying to keep los of a sniper/merc. If you can kite and los under ff and trust your team to provide damage, that can be just as beneficial. TL:DR mobility for some melee might be enough (not the best solution but enough.)

I would not miss PS much but historically bw nerfs damage for everything.

I would agree. Sins can make better use of it. It was also our class ability in the first place. I'm just not sure what i would be willing to give up to have it back.

Yeah. In all seriousness sins are fine. I was joking. We were all ticked at first, then we found out we got some good buffs.

I posted this here because this has been my community for this game over the years. For better or worse, pvp'ers have been my comrades and the best part of the game. To be clear, its not so much about gear disparity but rather being locked in to one toon and one tree. Its about losing the skill in crafting our armor. I use to keep so many armorings, mods and enhancements. I'd switch 'em around depending on how they were working for me that day, or in certain group comps. I mean gear could be customized all the time. We were on relatively equal ground and we were all just looking for an edge. I've even gone all the way up the vigi tree (back in the day) as a tank cause we needed the damage. well many of you have said it in this thread better than I can and I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling this way. But I do think the reality is that they've gone too long without reverting back that too many people will be pissed off that they did do the grind. So to all in the PVP community, its been a blast and who knows, maybe bw will fix it?

Let me start by declaring I like this game. I like pvp the most but I also like the pve. I don't mind the merc cancer. I dealt with the sorc wars (lets not forget that was 2 years), I dealt with smash monkeys and the operatives knock downs. These things didn't much bother me (although they weren't great). I have pvp'd mostly but I also raided during the great content drought of 4.0. Still I kept my sub. What has finally brought me to the end of my sub (it ends in two days) is the gear grind. 5 or more years I've paid $15 a month and for that I got: pve tanking, pve dps, pvp tanking and pvp dps all in one toon. If that wasn't enough I was able to switch. The amount of time I can spend playing has yielded command level 87 on my main character, and one incomplete dps set. Out of 87 command levels (which has taken since december for me) I've been able to use 9 pieces of gear. 87 drops, 9 usable. How am I suppose to get a pvp tank set, a pvp dps set, a pve tank set and a pve dps? I have had to choose one roll for one character to play. I don't care how many bags or crates or whatever they're called I get. I don't look forward to opening them when I can't choose the pieces I want and around 90% of them will be completely disintegrated anyways. Now in a few days another tier will be introduced and I've yet to even get to bolster. It won't be long before the only play style I am grinding will be as obsolete as my old 208 tank set. I want to play this game. I cannot justify spending the money when the new system has restricted how I've played for years.

Give it back to sins.

Focus is up with ap pt in terms of burst. Especially if you have reflect up. I don't find the root on blade dance all that useful (I do grab it for vigilance though) so I agree with de r Schneider, get ardent advocate. It's a bit more range and adds to your burst.

The only complaint for pve they have on the forums is that they have to manage their resources in hm. They are over performing at both. Ops aren't suppose to be face roll easy in hm. If force management on a seer is tough, try it on sabo or serenity, where management is key and there is no spammable regen button. I hope they nerf sages into swtor death, I'm so sick of seeing them.

You know when the referee makes a bad call against one team then later makes a bad call on the other team and you feel like they're just making up for the first bad call? I'm convinced that's what bw is doing with the holotraverse bug. "Oh crap they've got too much mobility, I'll just bug it." Of course they could "bug" in some burst.

Touche. XD

I see this request all the time and I'll admit I was once one of those that wanted more mitigation. I was wrong. Tanking is first and foremost about protection. Slows, roots, stuns, taunts, (I wish all three had a type of intercede), these are your main tools. Gaining aggro, which is easy in a raid, is much more complex in a pvp environment. Should you get defense and shield to work as you suggest, you'd lose upwards of 99% of the focus. You must get in there, interrupt their plans, piss them off, and grab their attention. Also; a couple terms we've been using for years and years are being misused. Skank meant a tank spec in dps gear, specifically darkness. Shank was given to guard/jugg back when we were making hybrids , usually 6/36/2. It means vigi spec and high endo, and yes, a shield too. Maybe a tank ear peace and def relic. This is the way it's always been. There is a logic to it. The tank starts aren't useless but maybe not as desirable as endo and power to some. Foxmob is absolutely correct; if you make the proposed changes, the meta would drastically change. Personally I think more classes not dying would only decrease what fun is left.

I kind of hate sages and sorcs. I tend to target them on my guard. But I agree. You guys should have a saber throw type ability. How about a saber throw with a root in exchange for PW?

So many things. You clearly didn't read. For instance I said when you want additional slow. Additional is the key word. Also I said when force damage is more favorable than melee and fib is on cd. But what ever. You play how you want. I would say if there is some use then it's not useless. There is useless or not. It's not often valuable but it does have its moments.

In pvp: When operatives and snipers use their white damage immunity When you pop potency and need the range When you need additional slow on that dang jugg you're kiting, or he's attacking your healer Really anytime you've got your dots and fib and force damage is more favorable than melee True it's not rotational but it's far from 0.