Let's talk about how to improve Harb Pub pvp

[astrobearx]

Harb pvp faction is trash tier. No point in saving garbage. Edited September 2, 2016 by astrobearx

[Sundragon]

As I put in my other post, you guys need 2 things:

 

1) Talk in chat, especially in baby-PvP. Dear god, nobody talks about what's going on. No communication = lose. You need to figure out how to type and play. That means take a second and type something really fast, even if it means your stats might decline just a tad. Communication in Imperial chat is far more active. Some of it's nasty, but at least they communicate.

 

2) Message the player you saw perform very well (or handily beat you) and ask for tips. Fastest way to improve.

 

Good luck.

[foxmob]

x-faction. it's the only way. it might encourage more ppl to group up. but either way, it prevents faction dodging. which in turn promotes faction balance. it increases pop frequency (currently only odessen and the occasional arena pop for short faction).

 

but tbh, I just don't think BW cares. I think they lack the time, money and incentive. I think the massive clusterf**k that was rishi arena + odessen for the first month+ represents the most effort/production we're ever going to get from them, and that was pretty atrocious. nevertheless, it fits with their track record of releasing things that weren't ready (bolster bugs) or never should have existed (team bubble-stun). I think they could pretty easily solve the latency problems associated with operative roll simply by turning it into a sprint (like inquisitors) or mad dash (like warriors/JKs). these are logical solutions. no brainer solutions...much like x-faction yolo queue. but BW are pretty consistent about half-arsing things (like ranked solo queue without proper matchmaking).

Edited August 20, 2016 by foxmob

[DarthMaulUK]

There's tons of videos, guides, 'how to pvp' stuff - truth is, players are just too lazy. I've played on the Harb for pvp, and it is probably the worst server I have ever played on in any MMO I've ever played for pvp standards.

 

You have rock bottom - then you have Harb. 7 players rush to cap a pylon, ALL of them leave it unguarded. The same goes for civil war. You can call for help 8,9,10 times - nada. Because your team - all 7 of them are too busy chasing ONE player in Voidstar, on the other side of the fence.

 

Huttball - where passing the ball icon has been removed by default for 99% of players.

^ all that is 65 pvp too.

 

When I wanted to become a better PvP'er in this game, guides and videos were few and far between but I managed to find some. However, PvP is about common sense and unfortunately, its the key ingredient missing from many players there.

Edited August 20, 2016 by DarthMaulUK

[TrixxieTriss]

A better attitude would help. Multiple matches today had people with terrible attitudes towards anyone calling incs or tactics.

"It's only lowbies"

"Shut the F up"

"Who cares, they're going to win anyway"

Etc etc... I could keep listing them

The annoying thing is myself and others were being polite and actually trying to train/teach these fools how to play.

If they refuse to learn in lowbies, then they will be terrible in pvp regardless of what lvl they are. Lowbies is the easiest bracket to play in, if you can't win there or refuse to learn, then you may as well stop pvping.

 

Rep attitude used to be good. I take 2 weeks away from the game and it turns to rubbish. What the hell happened in the last 2 weeks?

If reps want to get better, then they need to rethink their attitude because it's getting as bad as the imps. Try listening to people who want to help, instead of being a rude smart a*s*s.

 

It got so bad today that I rolled another imp just so I could rub their noses in it or metaphorically wash their mouths out with soap.

[AlrikFassbauer]

There's tons of videos, guides, 'how to pvp' stuff - truth is, players are just too lazy.

 

There's lots of guides and videos and "how to" stuff out there how to bake your own bread - it's just people are too lazy.

 

Same kind of thinking.

 

Pizza isn't even difficult.

Edited August 20, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[Yorioko]

A better attitude would help. Multiple matches today had people with terrible attitudes towards anyone calling incs or tactics.

"It's only lowbies"

"Shut the F up"

"Who cares, they're going to win anyway"

Etc etc... I could keep listing them

The annoying thing is myself and others were being polite and actually trying to train/teach these fools how to play.

If they refuse to learn in lowbies, then they will be terrible in pvp regardless of what lvl they are. Lowbies is the easiest bracket to play in, if you can't win there or refuse to learn, then you may as well stop pvping.

 

Rep attitude used to be good. I take 2 weeks away from the game and it turns to rubbish. What the hell happened in the last 2 weeks?

If reps want to get better, then they need to rethink their attitude because it's getting as bad as the imps. Try listening to people who want to help, instead of being a rude smart a*s*s.

 

It got so bad today that I rolled another imp just so I could rub their noses in it or metaphorically wash their mouths out with soap.

 

I think this can be summed up to ATTITUDE.

 

The sole reason why I find PVP at best moronic here on SWTOR is mainly ATTITUDE.

 

I have yet to log on and be "allowed" to learn. I think this is the main issue, feeling like you as a player actually WANT to be anywhere near pvp.

 

Why?

 

Becuse once you logg into PVP here on Swtor, there is a large pvp player base that seems to hvae "forgotten" that the unranked WZ are here to ( mainly) act as an an incetive to PVP.

This means there will allawys be people that "are not good", or having low or wrong gear, and it is THEIR right to do so there, in the unranked Zones.

 

I think the only way to improve pvp here is for the most die hard pvp players to realize and understand the difference between unranked and ranked pvp, it sems this is very not the case.

 

And NO the content argument is not valid.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I think the only way to improve pvp here is for the most die hard pvp players to realize and understand the difference between unranked and ranked pvp, it sems this is very not the case.

 

I've read so often here comments about Unranked : "Who cares ?" "Doesn't matter at all" "that's just sh**" "doesn't mean anything" "isn't important at all" "I don't care" "forgettable" "it's only a passage"

 

- in fact all kinds of badmouthing the LEARNING phjase of PvP.

 

It's as if no-one needed a learning phase at all. Once you are able to drive your ownb car because you've finished car driving school - you forget about it as quickly as possible.

 

"Car driving school - who cares ?" "Doesn't mean a thing" "totally unimportant" "learning to drive a car is merely a passage" "only Newbies are there, nothing to see, move on" ´"I don't care" etc ...

 

My wild guess it's that especially younger ages just don't want to be reminded of their RL learning phases - which is why they outright damn ALL learning phases. It makes them feel so inferior, to be a mere pupil. That's why Ranked is so important to them - to quote the advertisement of DAII : "The Rise To Power !"

[Technohic]

A better attitude would help. Multiple matches today had people with terrible attitudes towards anyone calling incs or tactics.

"It's only lowbies"

"Shut the F up"

"Who cares, they're going to win anyway"

Etc etc... I could keep listing them

The annoying thing is myself and others were being polite and actually trying to train/teach these fools how to play.

If they refuse to learn in lowbies, then they will be terrible in pvp regardless of what lvl they are. Lowbies is the easiest bracket to play in, if you can't win there or refuse to learn, then you may as well stop pvping.

 

Rep attitude used to be good. I take 2 weeks away from the game and it turns to rubbish. What the hell happened in the last 2 weeks?

If reps want to get better, then they need to rethink their attitude because it's getting as bad as the imps. Try listening to people who want to help, instead of being a rude smart a*s*s.

 

It got so bad today that I rolled another imp just so I could rub their noses in it or metaphorically wash their mouths out with soap.

 

Sorry to hear your frustration. It just reminds me of the last time I played mainly Pub. I realised my teammates just didnt care

[Greezt]

On TEH, I had a teammate spend an entire match complain about how they had "waited for five years for BW to fix imbalance, and pubs never win". I was the only who thought of telling them to try and play instead of whining... Guess how that worked out.

 

Funnily enough, the next three matches we won without that person. Go figure

Edited August 20, 2016 by Greezt

[Technohic]

I keep thinking about this pub issue. The thing is, **** happens; and about everyone screws up at some point. This is on both sides. The reaction to it is what makes the difference. If too many dont care at all as long as they get their 8 medals or just their participation trophy in mission progress; you are screwed. If people care an unhealthy ammount to start raging or whining rather than just doing tge best they can; you're also screwed.

 

I'd say in an effort to improve pub pvp; Id be willing to group up with some people who want to try to just have fun and try to direct by example; but i am nit the type to start giving directions myself usually.

[foxmob]

"It's only lowbies"

 

I say that all the time, but it's in response to inevitable whiner who rages in ops chat about how terrible everyone is and so forth. sometimes it'll get to me when I tell the guy to pass the ball 5 times and he doesn't even acknowledge that anyone's talking to him. but for the most part, you really do have to accept that lowbie players are terrible. half of them have no chance b/c they only have one button to attack with and no dcds.

 

not that you're "that guy" who rages and rants, but I'll use, "it only lowbies" all the time. it's the only way I can maintain sanity in that moronic bracket.

[omaan]

Guys you are doomed... i was playing harbringer, teh and tre and all three servers have incompetent pub side ( though teh has decent rep side but anyway its still bad). I transferred my rep chars to t3m4 and joined one of powerful pvp guilds so now i win 89% of all wrz and sometimes even having world pvp against imp pvp guilds. I dont know german language at all) but t3 seems to be the only one server with skilled rep.side all the other servers are only for imps... Edited August 20, 2016 by omaan

[TrixxieTriss]

Sorry to hear your frustration. It just reminds me of the last time I played mainly Pub. I realised my teammates just didnt care

 

It seems weird because up until 2 weeks ago I had been actively training newbie pubs and teaching them tactics. All had been willing to learn and had good attitudes. We had even started to dominate the imps during these time brackets.

There were only a few times in the 6 weeks before that someone had a bad attitude. The times those people spoke up, the rest of the team would defend me or any others trying to help.

I was actually feeling excited that we were building the pubs up and they had great attitudes. But take 2 weeks off and it's gone to hell.

[TrixxieTriss]

I say that all the time, but it's in response to inevitable whiner who rages in ops chat about how terrible everyone is and so forth. sometimes it'll get to me when I tell the guy to pass the ball 5 times and he doesn't even acknowledge that anyone's talking to him. but for the most part, you really do have to accept that lowbie players are terrible. half of them have no chance b/c they only have one button to attack with and no dcds.

 

not that you're "that guy" who rages and rants, but I'll use, "it only lowbies" all the time. it's the only way I can maintain sanity in that moronic bracket.

 

Unfortunately when you say that too, then others pick up the habit, ones that don't mean it the way you do. I can understand trying to get some rager to shut up, especially the ones yelling at everyone in lowbies who is trying to learn.

The problem is its become a catch phrase for anyone who can't play as a member of a team, is a selfish player or is just down right bad. People pick up phrases like that and use them in completely the wrong way.

I've also said "it's just lowbies". But I expand on that so that it doesn't sound like I'm giving attitude. ie, "it's lowbies, this is where people learn, try passing on your knowledge instead of raging" ..etc.

Edited August 20, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[foxmob]

nobody (perhaps with the exception alrik) is in lowbies "trying to learn." they're there to play.

 

but really...if someone needs a translator to filter the use of "it's just lowbies," then playing the socially conscious liberal language police is the least of the person's problems.

[TrixxieTriss]

nobody (perhaps with the exception alrik) is in lowbies "trying to learn." they're there to play.

 

but really...if someone needs a translator to filter the use of "it's just lowbies," then playing the socially conscious liberal language police is the least of the person's problems.

 

If they're playing pubs, then they are mostly learning or they need to learn. Either way, we should be helping them and they shouldn't be rude little t w a t s, lol

Edited August 21, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[Geeorgedk]

As harsh as it may sound, there is no way this is gonna get fixed. Most good pvpers are on Imp side. As long as they are there, whatever you do pub side won't matter.

Good pvpers that play Imp side feel no obligation to go Pub to play their alts, because why would they really? If they wanna play Pub, they would do so. Apart from the fact that most of them leave after 2 games or so, playing their Pub alts, seeing what a mess it is.

 

There are very good Pub pvpers btw, that can rival the best Imp pvpers, but they only do ranked. I hardly ever see ranked Pub players in regular warzones. Perhaps that would be a first step. But maybe there are also not that many of them, shrug.

[TrixxieTriss]

As harsh as it may sound, there is no way this is gonna get fixed. Most good pvpers are on Imp side. As long as they are there, whatever you do pub side won't matter.

Good pvpers that play Imp side feel no obligation to go Pub to play their alts, because why would they really? If they wanna play Pub, they would do so. Apart from the fact that most of them leave after 2 games or so, playing their Pub alts, seeing what a mess it is.

 

There are very good Pub pvpers btw, that can rival the best Imp pvpers, but they only do ranked. I hardly ever see ranked Pub players in regular warzones. Perhaps that would be a first step. But maybe there are also not that many of them, shrug.

 

Fix - cross faction, problem solved

[AlrikFassbauer]

Good pvpers that play Imp side feel no obligation to go Pub to play their alts, because why would they really?

 

Sounds very selfish to me.

[gsummers]

I agree that X faction is the only way at this point. Sounds like Harbinger has finally experienced what has happened on other servers. At this point pub pvp is so bad everywhere that there is really no coming back.

[Schoock]

I agree that X faction is the only way at this point. Sounds like Harbinger has finally experienced what has happened on other servers. At this point pub pvp is so bad everywhere that there is really no coming back.

 

I truly don't get this, sorry. Classes are exact mirrors, so there's nothing, as in literally nothing to stop reps from performing better, or at least the very same, as Imperials. Nothing.

 

There was a thread not so long ago here that basically said that reps are all calm and mature players, while Imperials are just raging little kids looking for stupid destruction. (Even a study-like post was linked confirming this.)

 

If X teams wins some championship and Y team loses, nobody in their right mind would recommend to intersperse members of team X and Y just so that "hey, losers should have a chance of winning, too". And the teams are not really locked in place either, you can change sides anytime.

 

L2P problems should not be solved by artificial methods. Rep players should either start to L2P or simply deserve losing. And the required skill cap in regs is absolutely not high, quite a lot of the Imps are just dumb as a hammer, too.

[Greezt]

I truly don't get this, sorry. Classes are exact mirrors, so there's nothing, as in literally nothing to stop reps from performing better, or at least the very same, as Imperials. Nothing.

 

There was a thread not so long ago here that basically said that reps are all calm and mature players, while Imperials are just raging little kids looking for stupid destruction. (Even a study-like post was linked confirming this.)

 

If X teams wins some championship and Y team loses, nobody in their right mind would recommend to intersperse members of team X and Y just so that "hey, losers should have a chance of winning, too". And the teams are not really locked in place either, you can change sides anytime.

 

L2P problems should not be solved by artificial methods. Rep players should either start to L2P or simply deserve losing. And the required skill cap in regs is absolutely not high, quite a lot of the Imps are just dumb as a hammer, too.

 

This is funny, unless you're serious.

 

Then it's dumb.

[Schoock]

This is funny, unless you're serious.

 

Then it's dumb.

 

Could you please... elaborate?

[Greezt]

Could you please... elaborate?

 

Why, yes I could. I'm glad you asked!

 

Comparing PvP to professional sports is ridiculous for a bunch of reasons. For one thing, professional players are given an incentive to play for a weaker team - namely, money. This ensures "class balance" within an organization, and allows for different teams to come out on top on different seasons. Of course, some club might have more money than another one, but that's nothing like PvP in this game.

 

Take a group of 3rd graders playing football/soccer in the playground on recess. They make groups by themselves, and as long as they don't break school rules the teachers don't interfere.

 

This leads to "interesting" results: all the kids want to play with the best, to increase their chances of winning. The good players will be picked first, and the rest will hope to land with them. if you're on the bad team, you might try, or you might just say "what's the point? All the good players are on their side!".

 

Now replace "kids" with "PvPers", ""football/soccer" with "warzones", "school rules" with "ToS", etc.... I think my point is clear.

 

Players want to win, it's that simple. No one likes being stomped. That's a main reason (not the only one, but still an important one) for premades, that's the reason for hacks by some players, and that's the reason for faction swaps.

 

I did GSF before I PvP'd as much as I do these days. On Harbinger, they have a thing called the "Harbinger shuffle". You know what that is? When one faction is dominating, most of the decent players will swap over there from the other faction, creating even more lopsided matches. Maybe you should adopt that phrase for PvP, too.

 

In PvP, players will either quit or star PvPing on impside. They weren't great when they swapped, for sure. Don't kid yourself . On impside they got a chance for more carries from better players, and closer matches against other bad players of similar skill. This way, they actually had a chance to learn without giving up in the process. Now, they're complete regstars and think the it's "pub PvP", not them being quitters.

 

I have almost exclusively PvPd on pubside, through thick and thin. There are good players there too (at least on TRE and TEH). I win some, I lose some. I'm ok with that. Not all players are, though. Thinking a whole faction needs to "L2P"... Well, don't lie to yourself, and certainly not to us.

 

Finally, as a side note to this post (this turned out longer than I planned), I know helping the weaker side is controversial. Some player believe it's mandatory, others think it will make them soft. The same argument exists in GSF for who knows how long. No, I'm not trying to convince you (or anyone) either way. I'm trying to keep the ******** out of the debate.

 

Hope this clears up my comment.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Greezt