Stealth nerf or unintended?

[rklontz]

Twice isn't a consistent basis at all.

 

In regards to the patch note issues it is more than twice, granted nothing has created as much drama as the last 2 but there has been a lot more either omitted from the notes and items included in the notes that never made it into the patch over the years that do indeed make it consistent.

 

The underperformance issue goes a lot deeper than just the patch notes with the numerous bugs released every other if not every patch and the blatant refusal to address known bugs that have been out for years.

[Bruticis]

The underperformance issue goes a lot deeper than just the patch notes with the numerous bugs released every other if not every patch and the blatant refusal to address known bugs that have been out for years.

 

And yet here we are on page 2 of people incensed not by a nerf, but the failure to note the nerf in some obscure notes 90% of the game population can't seem to read. With all these other horrific terrors the devs are bestowing upon us, you'd think people would have other things to rant about.

[MiguelGx]

I'm getting tired of all your stealth nerfs Bioware...

[Rolodome]

And yet here we are on page 2 of people incensed not by a nerf, but the failure to note the nerf in some obscure notes 90% of the game population can't seem to read. With all these other horrific terrors the devs are bestowing upon us, you'd think people would have other things to rant about.

It's a pretty damn important part of the game. Credits are the currency for most items. Naturally, failing to mention that you killed off a way to get them is going to get under peoples' skin. More than that failing to mention why you did it... whether it had anything to do with forum complaints or it had to do with botters or was just a general attempt to slow inflation or what.

 

Imagine if you woke up in the morning and you found out that without notification, interest rates for all bank accounts have been removed. It's sort of like that but in virtual world form. A change happens without notice or explanation, that negatively impacts your in-game livelihood.

 

It might seem stupid to get mad about it in virtual form, but I'd bet every real dollar I have that you'd be upset if something similar happened to you in RL. And I doubt you'd be talking about entitlement at that point, unless it was to say that you're legally entitled to be notified about such a change.

[SFDebris]

Hey folks,

 

I checked into this and you are correct, Treasure Hunting lockboxes are no longer dropping credits. This is an intended change to bring Treasure Hunting in line with other Crew Skills.

 

This was missed in the patch notes, which I will have corrected today. I apologize for any confusion this caused.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

To stealth nerf once may be regarded as misfortune. To stealth nerf twice looks like carelessness.

[casirabit]

I can assure you, it isn't. Maybe if you work in a non tech, low skill position such as a cashier or burger flipper.

 

Want to bet? I work in the legal field and if you mess up twice you are fired immediately, especially if it the same mistake.

Edited August 10, 2016 by casirabit

[AngFour]

Overall, however if they had proof that the creditsellers were using it, then anything that rids me of their millions of spam mails is worth the nerf.

 

I agree, but we all know this won't stop them. They'll just move to something else. Goldsellers were around long before TH granted credits (heck they were around long before SWTOR existed) and they will be around long after.

 

To quote Vector Hyllus, "The song ends, a new song begins."

[Bruticis]

It's a pretty damn important part of the game. Credits are the currency for most items. Naturally, failing to mention that you killed off a way to get them is going to get under peoples' skin. More than that failing to mention why you did it... whether it had anything to do with forum complaints or it had to do with botters or was just a general attempt to slow inflation or what.

 

Imagine if you woke up in the morning and you found out that without notification, interest rates for all bank accounts have been removed. It's sort of like that but in virtual world form. A change happens without notice or explanation, that negatively impacts your in-game livelihood.

 

It might seem stupid to get mad about it in virtual form, but I'd bet every real dollar I have that you'd be upset if something similar happened to you in RL. And I doubt you'd be talking about entitlement at that point, unless it was to say that you're legally entitled to be notified about such a change.

 

Absurd example is in fact, absurd. It's an MMO, nerfs happen all the time, sometimes with explanation and sometimes without. Silly example aside, this thread if for being outraged about the nerf not appearing in the patch notes. You'll want to find one of the other dozen or so steaming piles of poo err threads for ranting about the nerf itself.

[Bruticis]

Want to bet? I work in the legal field and if you mess up twice you are fired immediately.

 

Gee, no kidding? What's next, airline pilots being fired for 2 in air screw ups?

[casirabit]

Gee, no kidding? What's next, airline pilots being fired for 2 in air screw ups?

 

Considering a pilot is responsible for people's lives yes if they mess up they should be fired, especially if it is their mistake as there are individuals on that plane that they are responsible for. Mechanical failures or weather related issue is one thing but pilot error and you want to excuse them for making a mistake. Tell that to the families and friends of people that are killed because of a pilot mistake.

 

An on that note have a good day as you just want to keep arguing.

Edited August 10, 2016 by casirabit

[Rolodome]

Absurd example is in fact, absurd. It's an MMO, nerfs happen all the time, sometimes with explanation and sometimes without. Silly example aside, this thread if for being outraged about the nerf not appearing in the patch notes. You'll want to find one of the other dozen or so steaming piles of poo err threads for ranting about the nerf itself.

Ah, the, "It happens a lot so it's ok" argument. Worked well for the Nazis, amirite.

 

Godwinned, motha****a.

 

But seriously, what they say is not in line with that. They say that they never intentionally leave patch notes out and it's very bad when they do. And I've actually seen few nerfs (certainly not "all the time" as you put it).

 

Why is my analogy silly or absurd though? I'd love to hear you back up your words with more than game forum rhetoric. The point of it is pretty simple: Currency matters to people a lot, even when virtual, and that's by design. Because currency is very important by design. Naturally, a stealth currency nerf is going to matter more than, say, nerfing the damage on one ability by 0.001%.

 

Nerfs are common in MMOs, in a very general sense, but that doesn't mean that not announcing them is good practice.

[Bruticis]

Considering a pilot is responsible for people's lives yes if they mess up they should be fired, especially if it is their mistake as there are individuals on that plane that they are responsible for. Mechanical failures or weather related issue is one thing but pilot error and you want to excuse them for making a mistake. Tell that to the families and friends of people that are killed because of a pilot mistake.

 

An on that note have a good day as you just want to keep arguing.

 

That was sarcasm and rather obvious too. I guess you skipped that day during law school.

[Zhiroc]

Here's some insight from someone who is a professional s/w engineer.

 

When it comes to code changes, it's relatively easy to generate patch notes for them because you usually tag each and every code integration in some way in our source code management system (e.g., git, mercurial, svn, or whatever). However, when we make changes to our DB data, there is no "revision" that keeps track of it outside of our bug DB system, and sometimes we even make changes there without recording a bug. So yes, I can easily believe that something like loot table or item stat changes can be completely missed.

 

And, you know, they aren't stupid. They know the level to which people keep track of such things. To think that something as blatant as eliminating credits could be "slipped by" in a silent nerf is beyond my level of belief.

[Ceinwyn]

So what's the next nerf crusade peeps?

[midianlord]

So what's the next nerf crusade peeps?

 

If I had to guess, then I would say the desirable orange-shell drops from [HEROIC] missions and world-trash --as if it isn't nerfed enough already-- that you used to get from the now-defunct planetary equipment vendors.

 

In due course, coming back much sooner than Soon to a cash-shop near you!

 

U BUY MOAR NAO.

 

[/cynicism]

[Transcendent]

You forgot the part where they "missed it" on purpose, and the part where they were hoping it could be slipped in without much notice.

 

Hence the "/sarcasm" part of my post, I know, it's subtle!

 

So what's the next nerf crusade peeps?

 

Contraband Slot Machine........ oh wait.....

Edited August 10, 2016 by Transcendent

[AngFour]

So what's the next nerf crusade peeps?

 

In another post someone mentioned Investigation? Hardly anybody has the skill and I think the half dozen or so people who actually do are starting to feel a little left out.

 

Nerf Investigation because...REASONS!

Edited August 10, 2016 by AngFour

[SFDebris]

In another post someone mentioned Investigation? Hardly anybody has the skill and I think the half dozen or so people who actually do are starting to feel a little left out.

 

Nerf Investigation because...REASONS!

 

Investigations allows you to complete tier 5 gift missions in half the time of the other crew skills. Gold farmers will use this to generate tons of gifts to sell and make huge credits. Nerfing it is the only sane choice, especially not telling anyone about it first.

[Captain_Zone]

BioWare needs to look at how successful the player-run economy is, in EVE Online. Then stop trying to do a "government" (EA/BioWare) sponsored deflation in GTN prices, by nerfing credit drops.

 

Nerf Bats kill games, BW. Just letting you know. Look what happened to City of Heroes, EQ, EQ 2, and soon WoW. Each time the Nerf Bat hits, more players leave. Even a F2P model as well-done as this one couldn't sustain itself when too many Nerf Bat shots get taken.

 

Edit:

P.S.,

To all the people complaining about GTN prices and not being able to afford things, just don't buy them. The prices WILL go down when nobody buys something for 25 mill.

 

Keep the goldspammers from getting your hard-earned cash!

Edited August 10, 2016 by Captain_Zone

[Amodin]

Hey folks,

 

I checked into this and you are correct, Treasure Hunting lockboxes are no longer dropping credits. This is an intended change to bring Treasure Hunting in line with other Crew Skills.

 

This was missed in the patch notes, which I will have corrected today. I apologize for any confusion this caused.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Eric, the quality control in this game is non-existent. Items in your patch notes don't work (still - item preview and color crystals, for starters) or items you change in the game don't work right because you leave out the "mentionables" and this has become some of your biggest problems. I gladly point out your failures, which makes me NOT want to point out your successful things. Frankly, because your failures stack much higher than anything you can try to do right.

 

Courting items for Theron still don't work if you romanced him.

You still can't preview from a guild bank.

Color crystal preview still doesn't work, even though you said they fixed them in the notes for 4.7.

Graphical bugs galore (hair clipping, armor, etc).

You still haven't figured out one of the best, and by far, easiest way to combat gold selling/spamming (Hint: Black Desert & chat filtering).

The list goes on and on...

 

I'm really just curious to know when someone is finally going to put their foot down, and get your group to get it's s*** together on the long-standing problems, which quite frankly, will keep players rather than frustrate them into oblivion.

 

I get it - you are totally focused on the Cartel Market - probably by far your biggest money-making scheme for this franchise (hence dedicating a lot of resource to a 'pack opening experience').

 

There's more experiences than the CM - which has totally screwed people who craft, cutting them out of potentially making some great things, and not being pigeon-holed into just augments, invasion force, and prefab.

[peter_plankskull]

How about actually playing the game instead of playing the system? You know doing things like heroics, and FPs, and dailies, and conquest, and easy ops. There is so much to DO that generates credits in this game

 

...Did you really suggest him to do flashpoints for credits ?

[peter_plankskull]

Wow, great point and nice fact finding, very hard hitting investigative journalism! Clearly someone should be fired right now for this colossal screw up. I'm appalled and disgusted someone could forget to add a trivial change in patch notes 90% of the user base doesn't read TWICE. No mercy, HR should call security RIGHT freaking now and get this person out of the building IMMEDIATELY. I seriously don't think I can sleep tonight knowing this incompetent employee is doing who knows what at Bioware Austin.

 

Four pages back I know... but come on... you and you're endless strawman white knight arguments in this entire thread gets old. At least Andryah brings logic and reasoning to his point of view and for the most part, remains on subject.

[Bruticis]

Four pages back I know... but come on... you and you're endless strawman white knight arguments in this entire thread gets old. At least Andryah brings logic and reasoning to his point of view and for the most part, remains on subject.

 

There's no reasoning or logic to be had for the majority of the silly threads the vocal minority is constantly posting. You do understand this is now a 3 page thread about one silly, insignificant change that was omitted from the patch notes, right? I can't even begin to imagine how some of these people handle real life issues if a missing patch blurb sends their life into this kind of tailspin.

[DethEater]

You do understand this is now a 3 page thread about one silly, insignificant change that was omitted from the patch notes, right?

 

Insignificant to you. Tell us Bruticis how many credits do you have across all of your characters? I would be willing to bet you are probably between 50-100 million (or more), if not I apologize for the assumption. Personally, I have plenty of credits (But a few more never hurts. Am I right?), I've been playing since beta, but not everyone who plays this game has plenty of credits. Most of the really cool stuff is really expensive on the GTN because some of that stuff is pretty darn old.

 

Treasure hunting was a fairly painless way to create a little nest egg of credits on your way to level 65 and beyond. Maybe you get to pick up that set of armor you've been eyeing or that new lightsaber. Now they have taken that away all in the name of, what we all assume is, credit sellers. And it probably is the biggest reason for it, but the question you have to ask yourself is: Are the few million less credits a day a credit seller has to sell worth the new player who now quits or, god forbid, turns to said credit seller to feel as though they can compete or afford that nice shiny?

 

Credit sellers aren't going anywhere. They've been around as long as MMOs have been around and they will be around long after SWTOR closes its doors. Turning off a new player who was making some decent credits through treasure hunting is the real issue here.

 

Players like you and I who have been around a while, this won't effect anything but our opinion of Bioware for yet another stealth nerf and even more things that many view as underhanded.

 

Now is keeping a few million credits out of a credit sellers hands (who isn't going anywhere) worth players quitting or becoming frustrated with the game? Personally, if one person stops subbing or playing because of this nerf, I would say no.

[JourrnoRush]

...Did you really suggest him to do flashpoints for credits ?

 

He does have a point. I've made PLENTY just playing the game. From selling loot, decorations, to turning comms into companion gifts / mats, etc. there is money in playing the game. Of course, it doesn't beat just sending your companions off to craft and then just logging back in across 9 toons to sell what they did while you were afk. That shouldn't be the main way to make money.

 

This nerf was warranted