Depths of Manaan is Bugged

[Inspirator]

The HM Flashpoint Achievement missing from the Legendary Achievement will be fixed with 4.7.

 

We are still working through the other three and are planning to address them likely in 4.7.1. We are working through how this will impact anyone who has completed tier 6 at that point. We don't want to cause a negative effect on anyone's progress with any changes that we make.

 

I will pass on updates as I have them!

 

-eric

 

Wait, so you're increasing the requirements for an achievement - especially one that requires so much effort - after the fact.

 

Why should we have assumed that the requirements for "Dark vs. Light: Legend" were more than what was listed? Why even list the requirements if it's not even supposed to be a complete list?

 

You could have at least posted something sooner before players were so far though it.

[Jerba]

Wait, so you're increasing the requirements for an achievement - especially one that requires so much effort - after the fact.

 

Why should we have assumed that the requirements for "Dark vs. Light: Legend" were more than what was listed? Why even list the requirements if it's not even supposed to be a complete list?

 

You could have at least posted something sooner before players were so far though it.

There was an entire blog post on the requirements: http://www.swtor.com/blog/legendary-level-guide

Also, it's safe to assume that any achievements listed under the Legendary category would be required.

 

Just because the final achievement was missing them is not a reason to not fix it. In fact, most players haven't even realized this bug. Also, that achievement only shows meaningless names like "Dreaded News", "Giantkiller" or "Ruthless Efficiency"; if you truly wanted to find out what you had to do, this would be the last place to look.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Jerba

[Inspirator]

There was an entire blog post on the requirements: http://www.swtor.com/blog/legendary-level-guide

Also, it's safe to assume that any achievements listed under the Legendary category would be required.

 

Just because the final achievement was missing them is not a reason to not fix it. In fact, most players haven't even realized this bug. Also, that achievement only shows meaningless names like "Dreaded News", "Giantkiller" or "Ruthless Efficiency"; if you truly wanted to find out what you had to do, this would be the last place to look.

 

No where in that blog which starts: "Below you will find each objective required to complete the Legendary Tier of the Dark vs. Light event." does it say that you have to complete the Legendary Tier to qualify for the Legend achievement. While I can accept that it was a bug that all the Legendary achievements were supposed to be included and not something they're adding after the fact, it is poor form. No where is there any indication that there can't be other Legendary achievements available that are not part of the requirements for the Legend achievement.

[Jerba]

No where in that blog which starts: "Below you will find each objective required to complete the Legendary Tier of the Dark vs. Light event." does it say that you have to complete the Legendary Tier to qualify for the Legend achievement.

That achievement is directly linked to the Legendary rewards, in fact it is a technical limitation that the rewards are sent out when the achievement is completed. Therefore, any objective required for the Legendary rank has to be listed under this achievement.

 

I don't really see how you can make any fuss out of this. If you are an achievement hunter and truly want to get this achievement, you'd have hunted all the other achievements anyway, so this doesn't affect you.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Jerba

[Ceinwyn]

...I don't really see how you can make any fuss out of this....

 

...it is poor form...

 

^ This is all that needs to be said, imo. The game interface has a way to track the achievements yet BW can't accurately reflect what actually needs to be done. One shouldn't have to rely on the blog. And never mind that one of the hardest FPs doesn't even get recognised. Compound that with all the other issues people have taken with this event, players have every right to be frustrated.

[Inspirator]

That achievement is directly linked to the Legendary rewards, in fact it is a technical limitation that the rewards are sent out when the achievement is completed. Therefore, any objective required for the Legendary rank has to be listed under this achievement.

 

I don't really see how you can make any fuss out of this. If you are an achievement hunter and truly want to get this achievement, you'd have hunted all the other achievements anyway, so this doesn't affect you.

 

I could give a damn about getting the achievement except the achievement comes with rewards. Rewards which apparently are going to cost more in the future than what is currently stated for the achievement. And, the game should be authoritative, not some blog which surely wasn't being very clear about what was required for each specific achievement. The blog after all referred to tiers, not achievements.

[DenariusJay]

Wait, so you're increasing the requirements for an achievement - especially one that requires so much effort - after the fact.

.

 

Well before the event even started everyone was already aware that the HM FP achievement was needed for Legendary tier. It was disclosed on the event page. They aren't adding anything that wasn't already confirmed before the event even started.

[NoomiryarZ]

The HM Flashpoint Achievement missing from the Legendary Achievement will be fixed with 4.7.

 

We are still working through the other three and are planning to address them likely in 4.7.1. We are working through how this will impact anyone who has completed tier 6 at that point. We don't want to cause a negative effect on anyone's progress with any changes that we make.

 

I will pass on updates as I have them!

 

-eric

 

NO! NO NO NO!

 

Do not fix that achievement! Please do not! That achievement is the biggest drag of all. I was really happy to see the HM FP not to be included.

 

Bioware please come to your senses and realize that including the HM FP achieveemnt will have a negative impact on people playing the event! Nobody is waiting for undergeared and not understanding players to join random HM FPs just to screw everything up for the other three!

 

DO NOT DO IT!

[RandyL]

NO! NO NO NO!

 

Do not fix that achievement! Please do not! That achievement is the biggest drag of all. I was really happy to see the HM FP not to be included.

 

Bioware please come to your senses and realize that including the HM FP achieveemnt will have a negative impact on people playing the event! Nobody is waiting for undergeared and not understanding players to join random HM FPs just to screw everything up for the other three!

 

DO NOT DO IT!

 

^This. I just got done with my 3rd failed pug of the day. People can't even do the simplest of HM FPs (Korriban Incursion) let alone Blood Hunt or Manaan. They turn into giant wastes of time. I'm geared. I know what I'm doing. I have a stim. 80% of the people joining queues do not. Don't be tone deaf on this.

 

On a related note, how do their metrics not show the shear number of abandoned FP groups? I know BW has historically had a tough time interpreting their own metrics but the metrics MUST show the majority of groups fail. I think a 'proving grounds' feature is needed. Perhaps requiring completion of SOLO Eternal Championship before you can queue for HM FPs. The tacticals, whether group or solo, just don't prepare folks for HMs at all.

Edited July 29, 2016 by RandyL

[aerockyul]

NO! NO NO NO!

 

Do not fix that achievement! Please do not! That achievement is the biggest drag of all. I was really happy to see the HM FP not to be included.

 

Bioware please come to your senses and realize that including the HM FP achieveemnt will have a negative impact on people playing the event! Nobody is waiting for undergeared and not understanding players to join random HM FPs just to screw everything up for the other three!

 

DO NOT DO IT!

 

My problem is not so much the skill level of players, bads have been around for a looong time, so I already knew this wouldn't be an easy achievement to get (And why should it? It's in the LEGENDARY Tier). What I hate more than anything is when you DO finally get a group that CAN complete the HMFP and DOES clear it, then DOESN'T get credit for it!

[Cedia]

The HM Flashpoint Achievement missing from the Legendary Achievement will be fixed with 4.7.

 

We are still working through the other three and are planning to address them likely in 4.7.1. We are working through how this will impact anyone who has completed tier 6 at that point. We don't want to cause a negative effect on anyone's progress with any changes that we make.

 

I will pass on updates as I have them!

 

-eric

 

How about checking on the difficulty ratings of Depths of Manaan, Battle of Rishi, and Blood Hunt?

 

These are labeled Hard Mode, not Nightmare. And yet, with a group wearing the recommended rated gear, they cannot be done.

[MrVee]

How about checking on the difficulty ratings of Depths of Manaan, Battle of Rishi, and Blood Hunt?

 

These are labeled Hard Mode, not Nightmare. And yet, with a group wearing the recommended rated gear, they cannot be done.

 

They are really not that hard once you learn the mechanics. On my first run through those FP's my group did wipe a number of times.

 

What got us through the FP was patience, good communication and a quick read up on dulfy of the boss mechanics. They can be done in 208 gear from the vendor providing you have a reasonable understanding of how to gear and play your class.

 

I really hope they don't nerf the HM FP's. Takes all the fun out it. Too much of the game already is EZ mode.

[Cedia]

They are really not that hard once you learn the mechanics. On my first run through those FP's my group did wipe a number of times.

 

What got us through the FP was patience, good communication and a quick read up on dulfy of the boss mechanics. They can be done in 208 gear from the vendor providing you have a reasonable understanding of how to gear and play your class.

 

I really hope they don't nerf the HM FP's. Takes all the fun out it. Too much of the game already is EZ mode.

 

I beg to differ. I've got almost all 216 gear and can't seem to finish them to save my life. I know the mechanics, and the rest of the groups I've been in know them too. It's like banging my head against a wall, and it's not fun at all.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Cedia

[Wahala]

So how do you know if you achieved the "kill". in the Flashpoint?? If you complete the flashpoint did you kill him???

 

Or do you have to wait till you kill revan in part III to see???

 

Through further research I have concluded the following.

 

I guess his name is Stavistin. And although I have done this flashpoint 4 times he is not showing as having being killed in the "Flashpoint" section (Depths of Manan). I have always done it in SOLO mode ... so I guess if my robot landed the killing blow or my companion (or the fire) .... I would not get credit for the kill. OR ... maybe you don't get credit in SOLO mode. Maybe the Star Fortress Flashpoints are similarly bugged as I have done 5 or 6 of them and did not seem to get any credit for completing those flashpoints either ... tho I actually did and rode the little water ship to safety (Depths of Manan) and also clicked the thing in the little room after killing the last boss in the star fortresses each time and rode the little shuttle back to the ship that brought me there (just like the Flash point was complete).

 

Bugs like these take all the fun out of the dark / Light thingy (and the Star Fortress thingy) as well ... I just quit doing them. It would not kill me to do the depths of Manan over ... but without being able to get credit for it I see no point. The Lvl III part of The revan thingy is no longer in my Mission tracker so Even if I do it again I may not get credit for it in the Dark / Light ... or the 10 crates or anything else ... I guess my quest for Dark / Light is over (through no fault of my own). Please let me know if this ever gets fixed.

 

It "BUGS" me that after doing all the "work" of starting a new character and doing all the stuff I have done for the last 3 weeks (or more), it was for nothing

Edited July 31, 2016 by Wahala

[DenariusJay]

I beg to differ. I've got almost all 216 gear and can't seem to finish them to save my life. I know the mechanics, and the rest of the groups I've been in know them too. It's like banging my head against a wall, and it's not fun at all.

 

Well I counter your beg to differ with my own beg to differ. I was a 216 out of the boat tank, and completed BH, BoR and Depths of Manaan on HM. BH I one shotted with a pug group, Battle of Rishi we also 1 shoted with 1 guild healer, and Depths took a few tries and some luck but eventually cleared it twice with Pug group.

 

It's totally doable, maybe your groups don't know them as well as you think you do. Not being mean, but maybe read up on guide and refresh yourself on some of the mechanics. BH is actually not that hard, atleast Tanking it wasn't. Same with Battle of Rishi.

 

My point is.. they are all very doable - hard? sure, but not overbearing "can't ever complete this" hard. They are suppose to be challenging, its called "hard mode" for a reason.

[Cedia]

Well I counter your beg to differ with my own beg to differ. I was a 216 out of the boat tank, and completed BH, BoR and Depths of Manaan on HM. BH I one shotted with a pug group, Battle of Rishi we also 1 shoted with 1 guild healer, and Depths took a few tries and some luck but eventually cleared it twice with Pug group.

 

It's totally doable, maybe your groups don't know them as well as you think you do. Not being mean, but maybe read up on guide and refresh yourself on some of the mechanics. BH is actually not that hard, atleast Tanking it wasn't. Same with Battle of Rishi.

 

My point is.. they are all very doable - hard? sure, but not overbearing "can't ever complete this" hard. They are suppose to be challenging, its called "hard mode" for a reason.

 

Congratulations?

 

I'm sure BioWare has metrics on how many groups fail. If only a few are succeeding, this is a problem.

[DenariusJay]

only a few are succeeding, this is a problem.

 

Yes, the problem is few people actually try. They just load in and expect to be carried or don't wanna learn a good rotation and learn mechanics. Many don't even want to aug there gear - this is a player problem, not a FP tuning problem. These HM FP's are not overbearing at all, they are challenging enough for a group of competent people that don't want face roll easy but at the same time NiM insanity - HM FPs are a good middle ground and if someone is struggling through them then its a sign of your lack of knowledge of the FP mechanics, holes in your gear, or an unrefined rotation (or all at the same time)

 

These are good skill checks to go through before progressing further into the game, mainly, into OPs.

Just dumbing everything down is not the answer.

Edited July 31, 2016 by DenariusJay

[bncsmom]

The HM Flashpoint Achievement missing from the Legendary Achievement will be fixed with 4.7.

 

We are still working through the other three and are planning to address them likely in 4.7.1. We are working through how this will impact anyone who has completed tier 6 at that point. We don't want to cause a negative effect on anyone's progress with any changes that we make.

 

I will pass on updates as I have them!

 

-eric

 

Will the Depths of Manaan part of the Champion level achievement retroactively show for those of us who have completed it multiple times. I just finished it on solo mode today, I got the KB on the last boss, and I know that to be true because I set my companion on the adds and I pulled the boss away from where the fire would be so that I could DPS him down, but I did not get credit for it. I can give you guys a screenshot of it if you need it. I don't want to have to repeat this flashpoint again after this, I may never do it again after my DvL toon finishes the HM version, because it's so darned difficult to complete, even on tactical.

 

Please let us know what is needed to get this marked complete. I'm getting frustrated with doing Manaan over and over and not seeing any progress, and I'm sure many others are, as well.

[Cedia]

Just dumbing everything down is not the answer.

 

No, but making every HM flashpoint the same level of difficulty is. Stop your crusading.

 

As I said before, Depths of Manaan, Blood Hunt, Lost Island, and Battle of Rishi are beyond HM. They are much harder than the rest.

[DenariusJay]

No, but making every HM flashpoint the same level of difficulty is. Stop your crusading.

 

As I said before, Depths of Manaan, Blood Hunt, Lost Island, and Battle of Rishi are beyond HM. They are much harder than the rest.

 

So beyond that an average player like myself can go in blind, on a tank, and get a clear? Multiple times? With 216 gear?

 

Sorry, I'm not buying it. Sounds like you got a mental block against those HM's. Study up and l2p. That's what I did and it worked. Not the FP that's the problem, but the players behind the keyboards.

Edited August 1, 2016 by DenariusJay

[bncsmom]

Yes, the problem is few people actually try. They just load in and expect to be carried or don't wanna learn a good rotation and learn mechanics. Many don't even want to aug there gear - this is a player problem, not a FP tuning problem. These HM FP's are not overbearing at all, they are challenging enough for a group of competent people that don't want face roll easy but at the same time NiM insanity - HM FPs are a good middle ground and if someone is struggling through them then its a sign of your lack of knowledge of the FP mechanics, holes in your gear, or an unrefined rotation (or all at the same time)

 

These are good skill checks to go through before progressing further into the game, mainly, into OPs.

Just dumbing everything down is not the answer.

 

That depends on the HM FP, though, and the person. I can tell you that my toons are well geared, including the DvL toon I'm taking through this ridiculous thing they're deeming an "event," and Depths of Manaan is extremely difficult on any of them. We did it on BC a few days ago. Three of us from my guild, plus one person I know from another guild. All of us were well-geared. I don't know how many tries it took for us to complete Ortuno, but it was too many for my liking.

 

If all they do with HM FPs is tweak Ortuno, specifically, even just a little bit, I'll be jumping for joy. He's stupidly strong, even for a HM. And don't get me started on him in tacticals, it's the same thing. He's stupidly strong for a tactical FP, as well.

[DenariusJay]

That depends on the HM FP, though, and the person. I can tell you that my toons are well geared, including the DvL toon I'm taking through this ridiculous thing they're deeming an "event," and Depths of Manaan is extremely difficult on any of them. We did it on BC a few days ago. Three of us from my guild, plus one person I know from another guild. All of us were well-geared. I don't know how many tries it took for us to complete Ortuno, but it was too many for my liking.

 

If all they do with HM FPs is tweak Ortuno, specifically, even just a little bit, I'll be jumping for joy. He's stupidly strong, even for a HM. And don't get me started on him in tacticals, it's the same thing. He's stupidly strong for a tactical FP, as well.

 

See, I used to think Ortuno was stupidly strong too.

 

Now he just "strong" - yes hes a challenge, and the bonus boss is also a challenge. But its not impossible, with good dps that pick up adds and a decent healer that can keep his eye on the tank - Ortuno is very winnable. I've pugged Ortuno many times and sometimes its a wash, but that's usually bad dps not able to keep up, or a healer just not keeping up. It's a strong fight but its a good skill check to see where your lacking.

 

I use the wipes as a way to see where I need to improve, since so many people have cleared these over the years, I know its not the HM that's the problem, but a l2p problem. We all have l2p problems, use these as way to improve instead of just having everything toned down so we can get ez clears without thinking much. (am I the only one who thinks this game has too much of that already?)

Edited August 1, 2016 by DenariusJay

[bncsmom]

See, I used to think Ortuno was stupidly strong too.

 

Now he just "strong" - yes hes a challenge, and the bonus boss is also a challenge. But its not impossible, with good dps that pick up adds and a decent healer that can keep his eye on the tank - Ortuno is very winnable. I've pugged Ortuno many times and sometimes its a wash, but that's usually bad dps not able to keep up, or a healer just not keeping up. It's a strong fight but its a good skill check to see where your lacking.

 

I use the wipes as a way to see where I need to improve, since so many people have cleared these over the years, I know its not the HM that's the problem, but a l2p problem. We all have l2p problems, use these as way to improve instead of just having everything toned down so we can get ez clears without thinking much. (am I the only one who thinks this game has too much of that already?)

 

 

The problem with this is he's stronger than he was before 4.0. I remember doing it pre-4.0 and having trouble getting through HM, but nowhere near as much trouble as I have even on tactical when I'm pugging it. Before 4.0, it was a challenge on story mode, but not stupidly difficult like tactical can be for most pugs nowadays.

 

I can tell you I don't have l2p problems, nor do two of the people I ran this fp with the other day. The third with us, he has some learning to do, but he's showing promise that he can take direction and follow the group's line of thinking regarding strategy.

 

The problem with Ortuno is the fact that he's overpowered for most groups. Whether you want to believe that or not is your prerogative. I'll stick with the facts rather than just tell people "l2p" is their problem. When so many people are telling the devs that a specific boss needs a slight tweak, it's not a l2p problem, it's a "the boss is too darned difficult to even be called a mere challenge" problem.

[bncsmom]

I just wish they'd bring back Story Mode for the flashpoints, let us queue up for it again. I don't like that we have to do it only on tactical or hard mode. With Story Mode, we'd still need a balanced group, but gear isn't as much of an issue, and people can start learning the mechanics of the FPs when working without kolto tanks and with a balanced group instead.

[DenariusJay]

I can tell you I don't have l2p problems, nor do two of the people I ran this fp with the other day.

 

Sounds like you have rust with the encounter. I know our pride doesn't want to hear that, but I can confidently say it was. Because it was for me, then I got used to it after clearing him a few times. Remember, he's a scripted fight, and does the same thing over and over gain, once you learn it, it's easy, even in HM... if you have friends, guildies, that know how to clear it, and all of you get together and know what to expect, its easy - you prob will one shot it. Most of the wiping comes from arrogance "Oh, I know this fight already , I don't really have to try" then you start wiping, you have to ask yourself maybe I don't know it as well as I thought, or they buffed it, etc. Once you iron out the kinks, its easy.

 

I PUG'd a Depths of manaan HM run 3 days ago, and we cleared Ortuno first try, with 1 death. I thought to myself "if people know the fight (which the players I got grouped with did), its pretty straight forward" I no longer have a mental block towards Depths like I did a month ago , I was in the same boat as a lot of people "this is too overtuned, this is harder then hard, I will never clear this guy" then I just started actually trying and now I don't feel that way anymore about it.

 

All these HM's are pretty straight forward once you know the fights. Remember its all scripted, once you learn the script its not bad. The trick is getting people in your group that have decent gear and a good rotation down, which is hard to do with a PUG - but that is the nature of the PUG, has nothing to do with the tuning of the fights. Get people that know what they are doing and the fights are easy. That has totally been my experience with all the HM, even the ones that are so called "beyond hard". For what its worth, I do think some FP's are broken, like BH Tactical version definitely could use some toning down (it is harder then the HM version IMO) and Maelstrom Prison tac verison is just straight broken. But so far, with all HM's, I've never felt like any of them were broken or over-tuned once I learned the fights (they certainly felt that way at first, but after learning them I don't feel that way anymore)

Edited August 1, 2016 by DenariusJay