It's easy to make an MMO, why are some Devs so blind?

[Perderedeus]

I stopped reading at the "make everything seamless" part. Hah.

 

Do you know the sort of strain that would put on client PCs and servers? You would need to have huge areas completely devoid of anything but bland landscape to make planets seamless transitions between zones, then to atmo, then to space, then back planetside.

[Red_Cruiser]

I'm positive given the budget and the resources, I could have made a better game than SW:ToR. SW:ToR really struggles from the ground up because of it's basic design and it's IP.

[Inhalcator]

Open up a studio. Put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise, cram it. Hard.

[Wafflenator]

Being brutally honest: You just plain CAN'T build a city like Coruscant or Nar Shadda the same way you build Stormwind or Orgrimmar. Scale, complexity, height differentials... It's not feasible.

 

A planet like Tatooine are very much big, open and spread out. As they should be. It's a desert planet.

 

On the subject of the UI, "copying" the WoW UI is just plain idiotic. Even Blizzard have acknowledged that active resource bars work better in the bottom center of the screen, and they're addressing that in MoP. All the stuff that IS good, like basic character pain layout and keybinds, Bioware DID lift from WoW. This is also the first MMO where character responsiveness to me feels on parr with WoW and not cludgy.

 

In all honesty? Pull your head in and stop whinging. You don't really know what you're talking about.

[ShetiPhian]

1. Make all planets seamless, no instancing at all. If you have to queue for a mob to spawn tough luck, get over it as these things happen when a mmo is launched. The world would be totally free, you can go where ever you like, it would be just like in the film, hop on your speeder and explore.

Instancing is a good thing, I hate being force to wait for one mob to re-spawn only to have someone with a faster attack tag it on me.

 

Having the world be more open would be nice, I found it odd a few times I was forced to use a speeder when the two areas of the map where very close to each other and was flat land.

 

Other MMO's have the same problem, Uldum should have been more like Tatooine, in Uldum it is possible to view the whole zone, good luck doing that on Tatooine.

 

 

2. There would be a LFG facility but you would not be allowed to teleport to your flashpoint, you have to make your own way there to keep the game as realistic as possible.

I see nothing wrong with the current system, it just seems more personal.

 

3. From level 20 - 50 on there would be plot crossovers so meeting the enemy faction will happen very often when you quest. You would be rewarded for killing enemy players and even get quests to take out their leaders. Yes ganking would happen, roll PvE if you can't cope.

Even on a Full server I have yet to see a member of the opposite fraction, I suppose plot crossovers would fix it, but I'm not a developer.

 

4. All towns would be protected by NPC guards but they would not respawn quickly and certainly not in HUGE numbers, towns would NOT be capturable but you could bring your entire guild and cause havok in them. The invaded faction would have to rally to expell the invaders.... If you do not like this we would have PvE servers.

Even on PvE servers this is a big No.

It is very frustrating to be in a questing hub and trying to hand-in/ accept quests between NPC slaughters.

The "rally to expel the invaders" almost never happens, instead the hub is occupied for a few hours until the invaders get board and leave. For those with little time to play this can really spoil their gaming experience.

 

5. I would copy the UI from WOW, it works and is excellent.

The default UI is nothing special, but the customization with mods is great.

Bioware has pointed out mods will be in the future,

I'm hoping for mods like Align. Aura Frames, Cellular, Dominos, Masque & Stuf Unit Frames. BUT even giving a LOTRO style of modding would be nice.

 

6. Priority would be given to crafting and the AH, I would copy from Rift.

I haven't done enough crafting in StarWars yet so I dont know if is suffers from the same problems but the things I don't like about crafting in most games are:

• you need to gather materials form the next level zone to craft your gear. (example; level 15gear is crafted with materials from a level 24 zone.
  
• by the time you can wear a full set the first item you could equip is out of date.
  
• Crafted gear is inferior to dungeon & pvp gear of the same guilty & level
  

 

7. World events and world quests like in Rift would be on every planet to make teaming up an attractive option.

I never played Rift, but a feature like the random quests in Red Dead Redemption would be cool.

[FerrusPA]

Why not just take SWG Pre-AllThatCrap, copy the good parts, change the meh parts and market it as such. No need to contend with WoW either because you can legitimately claim "it's not WoW!".

[NickWillJenkins]

text for later

[habbathejutt]

Those are great ideas Timmy, now sit on grandpa's lap as he explains to you how the real world works.

 

In the game development world, there are developers and there are publishers.

 

Developers go to Publishers and say "I want to make a game, if you invest Y$ with me we'll both profit." The Publisher says "fine, you've got X amount of time to make it."

 

The developer then goes back home to the studio, sits down with the designers and leads in other departments and says "ok we've got x time and y$ to make this game, at which point they have 2 choices.

 

1) Dreams like yours get crushed and basically everything you suggested has to get cut. In order to complete a descent but not perfect game on time and on budget.

 

2) They say F-that and everyone works 80 hours a week for the next 3 years to push out an open world, unpolished mediocre turd, blowing the budget and milestones.

 

These are the realities, thank god Bioware took option number 1

[zephar]

OP is clearly ignorant on what it takes to engineer a mmo game

 

you cant just wave a magical wand and their are no ques and seemless zones. As someone in the coding industry you ahve no clue how complex it is and what it takes.

 

Well if your game has no players I suppose it would be easier .

 

 

Just sitting their demanding what cant be done does not make it so. Any mmo throw enough players at it will either crash or will start queing .

[baznasty]

If someone gave me £130 million and said make a SW MMO I would have done this:

 

1. Make all planets seamless, no instancing at all. If you have to queue for a mob to spawn tough luck, get over it as these things happen when a mmo is launched. The world would be totally free, you can go where ever you like, it would be just like in the film, hop on your speeder and explore.

 

2. There would be a LFG facility but you would not be allowed to teleport to your flashpoint, you have to make your own way there to keep the game as realistic as possible.

 

3. From level 20 - 50 on there would be plot crossovers so meeting the enemy faction will happen very often when you quest. You would be rewarded for killing enemy players and even get quests to take out their leaders. Yes ganking would happen, roll PvE if you can't cope.

 

4. All towns would be protected by NPC guards but they would not respawn quickly and certainly not in HUGE numbers, towns would NOT be capturable but you could bring your entire guild and cause havok in them. The invaded faction would have to rally to expell the invaders.... If you do not like this we would have PvE servers.

 

5. I would copy the UI from WOW, it works and is excellent.

 

6. Priority would be given to crafting and the AH, I would copy from Rift.

 

7. World events and world quests like in Rift would be on every planet to make teaming up an attractive option.

 

8. Level design would be taken from WOW, love it or hate it that game has some awesome designed levels. A mix of very open terrain but with the odd choke point added for ambushes. Loads of life, small towns and HUGE Cities and the odd little outpost. No invisible barriers.

 

When you pay a fee to play, you need to feel you belong in the world, you need to be part of it, it's almost your second home. SWTOR feels more like a chore than a exciting adventure, it's just too linear and too boxed in for me.

 

I actually agree with each one of your bullet points. I would just consider changing statements like "why are you so blind" and "it's so easy"

 

What you are describing is an MMO that I would really really enjoy. Just consider how you say it.

[baznasty]

OP is clearly ignorant on what it takes to engineer a mmo game

 

you cant just wave a magical wand and their are no ques and seemless zones. As someone in the coding industry you ahve no clue how complex it is and what it takes.

 

Well if your game has no players I suppose it would be easier .

 

 

Just sitting their demanding what cant be done does not make it so. Any mmo throw enough players at it will either crash or will start queing .

 

I do not like how the OP stated it (it's so easy), but what you just said is absurd.

 

"you cant just wave a magical wand and their are no ques and seemless zones. As someone in the coding industry you ahve no clue how complex it is and what it takes. "---

 

um...there was a game made about 7 years ago with about 1/4 of this budget that did exactly that. Can't remember the name of it, but I think it did pretty well....it'll come to me

[kevlarto]

LOL armchair dev's gota love'em.. I did get good laugh

[pezit]

If someone gave me £130 million and said make a SW MMO I would have done this:

 

1. Make all planets seamless, no instancing at all. If you have to queue for a mob to spawn tough luck, get over it as these things happen when a mmo is launched. The world would be totally free, you can go where ever you like, it would be just like in the film, hop on your speeder and explore.

 

2. There would be a LFG facility but you would not be allowed to teleport to your flashpoint, you have to make your own way there to keep the game as realistic as possible.

 

3. From level 20 - 50 on there would be plot crossovers so meeting the enemy faction will happen very often when you quest. You would be rewarded for killing enemy players and even get quests to take out their leaders. Yes ganking would happen, roll PvE if you can't cope.

 

4. All towns would be protected by NPC guards but they would not respawn quickly and certainly not in HUGE numbers, towns would NOT be capturable but you could bring your entire guild and cause havok in them. The invaded faction would have to rally to expell the invaders.... If you do not like this we would have PvE servers.

 

5. I would copy the UI from WOW, it works and is excellent.

 

6. Priority would be given to crafting and the AH, I would copy from Rift.

 

7. World events and world quests like in Rift would be on every planet to make teaming up an attractive option.

 

8. Level design would be taken from WOW, love it or hate it that game has some awesome designed levels. A mix of very open terrain but with the odd choke point added for ambushes. Loads of life, small towns and HUGE Cities and the odd little outpost. No invisible barriers.

 

When you pay a fee to play, you need to feel you belong in the world, you need to be part of it, it's almost your second home. SWTOR feels more like a chore than a exciting adventure, it's just too linear and too boxed in for me.

 

If I were president I would make world peace and make sure everyone had a warm meal and only had to work as much as they wanted to.

[zephar]

I do not like how the OP stated it (it's so easy), but what you just said is absurd.

 

"you cant just wave a magical wand and their are no ques and seemless zones. As someone in the coding industry you ahve no clue how complex it is and what it takes. "---

 

um...there was a game made about 7 years ago with about 1/4 of this budget that did exactly that. Can't remember the name of it, but I think it did pretty well....it'll come to me

 

just means their were not enough players to crash it . Once again read your options ques or you get to enough players that crash it. their is no in between with current technology. I love how you can't even think of the game because no technology exist that will not under enough players connecting crash.

[Lindestria]

I wish to argue a number of points.

 

1. Make all planets seamless, no instancing at all. If you have to queue for a mob to spawn tough luck, get over it as these things happen when a mmo is launched. The world would be totally free, you can go where ever you like, it would be just like in the film, hop on your speeder and explore.

 

Even in this situation the world will not be 'free'. Mob levels quickly stop most attempts at heavy exploration. As well, given Bioware's style of game design, this would only lessen the impact of the player's story. Given the general use of instancing as a class quest area, I do not understand the issue very well anyway, it more seems like you simply wish to inconvenience the players.

 

 

3. From level 20 - 50 on there would be plot crossovers so meeting the enemy faction will happen very often when you quest. You would be rewarded for killing enemy players and even get quests to take out their leaders. Yes ganking would happen, roll PvE if you can't cope.

 

While a fine idea, this does seem rather derivative of the playerbase that prefers PvE. In that you do not seem to be even designing a game for them.

4. All towns would be protected by NPC guards but they would not respawn quickly and certainly not in HUGE numbers, towns would NOT be capturable but you could bring your entire guild and cause havok in them. The invaded faction would have to rally to expell the invaders.... If you do not like this we would have PvE servers.

 

The problem with this is that PvE servers would still be subjected to this. Rival Faction guilds would be able to come in, annihilate a quest hub, and halt the progress of dozens of players who specifically chose the server for the fact that this should not be happening

(I have had this experience from WoW; unpleasant and annoying are the nicest things that can be said)

 

6. Priority would be given to crafting and the AH, I would copy from Rift.

 

While I do not have an argument against this, a bit of clarification for those of us that have not played Rift is necessary. What do you mean by 'Priority given'?

7. World events and world quests like in Rift would be on every planet to make teaming up an attractive option.

 

So do larger group quests and dungeons.

8. Level design would be taken from WOW, love it or hate it that game has some awesome designed levels. A mix of very open terrain but with the odd choke point added for ambushes. Loads of life, small towns and HUGE Cities and the odd little outpost. No invisible barriers.

 

WoW's level design works well for the High Fantasy setting it is based in. Star Wars gives far less images of open terrain and far more of small corridors. Large open terrain with small amounts of enclosed spaces would not feel as much a Star Wars story, unless of course the entire game were on Tatooine.

When you pay a fee to play, you need to feel you belong in the world, you need to be part of it, it's almost your second home. SWTOR feels more like a chore than a exciting adventure, it's just too linear and too boxed in for me.

 

'For me', At the start you market this as truth and you finish it as an opinion? If you do not feel the world is for you, then you don't need to be wasting your time playing. As far as feeling a part of the world; In my personal opinion, it feels just fine.

[LordJestR]

There is no way to cater to everyone in a game.

 

While don't people just understand that and let go?

 

I don't go into WoW's forum and demand that they change the game for me because I know what I like will not appeal to others.

 

It is a consumer market. What waste time on things you don't like while you could spend time on things you do like.

Edited December 28, 2011 by LordJestR

[siegedeluxe]

Copy paste wow? Rofl.

[ZEROUMUS]

I do not agree that an MMO is easy to make.

 

However, I do agree its ridiculous that they had a 200M dollar budget and this game is not the most outstanding MMO i've ever played. I do enjoy it though more than any other MMO. Aside from bugs, the game is pretty awesome.

 

 

well this is an EA project now, we have to pay alot of money to Accountants, controllers, lawyers and other corperate types, that EA requires be present at Bioware before they get the money

[instabean]

Avatar's budget = Anywhere from 230 Million to 500 Million depending which figure you believe.

 

Star Wars: The Old Republic > Avatar (which I thought was a rubbish film, I watched it on a flight) as far as entertainment per hour cost thus far.

 

Oh yeah, all the earnings Avatar made was spent settling lawsuits:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/murdochs-avatar-profit-may-be-lost-on-lawsuits-20100304-pknl.html

 

Vote with your subscription.

Edited December 28, 2011 by instabean

[XaviourEQ]

If someone gave me £130 million and said make a SW MMO I would have done this:

 

1. Make all planets seamless, no instancing at all. If you have to queue for a mob to spawn tough luck, get over it as these things happen when a mmo is launched. The world would be totally free, you can go where ever you like, it would be just like in the film, hop on your speeder and explore.

 

3. From level 20 - 50 on there would be plot crossovers so meeting the enemy faction will happen very often when you quest. You would be rewarded for killing enemy players and even get quests to take out their leaders. Yes ganking would happen, roll PvE if you can't cope.

 

4. All towns would be protected by NPC guards but they would not respawn quickly and certainly not in HUGE numbers, towns would NOT be capturable but you could bring your entire guild and cause havok in them. The invaded faction would have to rally to expell the invaders.... If you do not like this we would have PvE servers.

 

6. Priority would be given to crafting .

 

7. World events

 

When you pay a fee to play, you need to feel you belong in the world, you need to be part of it, it's almost your second home. SWTOR feels more like a chore than a exciting adventure, it's just too linear and too boxed in for me.

 

 

so basically you want to play eq(2) with a starwars theme? Bioware shoul have done this!!Also, Imo i wouldn't take anymore things from WoW that they already have.I don't want a carebear game, where all you have is 2 hotbars of abilities and you only use ~4-5 on a regular basis, with a global reuse so the game can be "USER FRIENDLY"...oh wait...... too late.Atleast the swtor toons don't look like there from fragel rock or barney, or some other childrens cartoon.

 

i want 6+ hotbars, with a crap load of abilities on INDEPENDENT reuse (long reuses too, like a 30sec reuse wouldd be onsidered short!!).i want my guild leader to call me at 3am, telling me to get up and that so&so Avatar just spawned in the openworld and we need to pull him before any rival guilds do so we can get the phat loot and becasue if they do he wont spawn back for another week!!!

 

I want this kind of gameplay!!!! I don't want to play some dumbed down childs game catering to the masses. *cough* like some other popular game, whats it called again?Alls I can say is WoW, WoW is so so so terribad.

Edited December 28, 2011 by XaviourEQ

[CharagonIGN]

If someone gave me £130 million and said make a SW MMO I would have done this:

 

1. Make all planets seamless, no instancing at all. If you have to queue for a mob to spawn tough luck, get over it as these things happen when a mmo is launched. The world would be totally free, you can go where ever you like, it would be just like in the film, hop on your speeder and explore.

 

2. There would be a LFG facility but you would not be allowed to teleport to your flashpoint, you have to make your own way there to keep the game as realistic as possible.

 

3. From level 20 - 50 on there would be plot crossovers so meeting the enemy faction will happen very often when you quest. You would be rewarded for killing enemy players and even get quests to take out their leaders. Yes ganking would happen, roll PvE if you can't cope.

 

4. All towns would be protected by NPC guards but they would not respawn quickly and certainly not in HUGE numbers, towns would NOT be capturable but you could bring your entire guild and cause havok in them. The invaded faction would have to rally to expell the invaders.... If you do not like this we would have PvE servers.

 

5. I would copy the UI from WOW, it works and is excellent.

 

6. Priority would be given to crafting and the AH, I would copy from Rift.

 

7. World events and world quests like in Rift would be on every planet to make teaming up an attractive option.

 

8. Level design would be taken from WOW, love it or hate it that game has some awesome designed levels. A mix of very open terrain but with the odd choke point added for ambushes. Loads of life, small towns and HUGE Cities and the odd little outpost. No invisible barriers.

 

When you pay a fee to play, you need to feel you belong in the world, you need to be part of it, it's almost your second home. SWTOR feels more like a chore than a exciting adventure, it's just too linear and too boxed in for me.

 

Your game would be horrible. It would cost millions to make and nobody would play it. You fail at development.

[Merex]

If someone gave me £130 million and said make a SW MMO I would have done this:

 

1. Make all planets seamless, no instancing at all. If you have to queue for a mob to spawn tough luck, get over it as these things happen when a mmo is launched. The world would be totally free, you can go where ever you like, it would be just like in the film, hop on your speeder and explore.

 

2. There would be a LFG facility but you would not be allowed to teleport to your flashpoint, you have to make your own way there to keep the game as realistic as possible.

 

3. From level 20 - 50 on there would be plot crossovers so meeting the enemy faction will happen very often when you quest. You would be rewarded for killing enemy players and even get quests to take out their leaders. Yes ganking would happen, roll PvE if you can't cope.

 

4. All towns would be protected by NPC guards but they would not respawn quickly and certainly not in HUGE numbers, towns would NOT be capturable but you could bring your entire guild and cause havok in them. The invaded faction would have to rally to expell the invaders.... If you do not like this we would have PvE servers.

 

5. I would copy the UI from WOW, it works and is excellent.

 

6. Priority would be given to crafting and the AH, I would copy from Rift.

 

7. World events and world quests like in Rift would be on every planet to make teaming up an attractive option.

 

8. Level design would be taken from WOW, love it or hate it that game has some awesome designed levels. A mix of very open terrain but with the odd choke point added for ambushes. Loads of life, small towns and HUGE Cities and the odd little outpost. No invisible barriers.

 

When you pay a fee to play, you need to feel you belong in the world, you need to be part of it, it's almost your second home. SWTOR feels more like a chore than a exciting adventure, it's just too linear and too boxed in for me.

http://www.kickstarter.com/

[DragonSyn]

No I don't damn, never thought of that.

 

 

Oh wait, I have an idea, I would hire a load of programmers, wow what a great idea

 

You wear your ignorance like a crown. Most, if not all, 'developers' start off programming for the simple fact that in order to 'develop' a game, in most circumstances, it is absolutely vital to know the limitations that exist. Simply telling programmers, 'This is what I want' is not developing. Understanding the limitations of modern day languages and hardware, then designing a well-rounded 'core' to take advantage of the pluses, while minimizing the impact of the limitations is what it takes to be the guy calling the shots. I simply couldn't see anyone handing someone ANY amount of money to develop a game unless they had some sort of computer experience (preferably game programming).

[Hazed]

They need to just take the game down for a few months imo

 

swap hero engines and relaunch with new features.

[MillionsKNives]

They just need a few interns and they're golden.