100% PVP Incredible Case Files Testable and Varifiable

[Andryah]

Can I just say how AWESOME it is that someone brought actual data to the discussion?

 

Not to be a buzz kill, and no offense to people who enjoy PvP....

 

The data however makes it clear that this is a PvE dominated game. 4 billion+ NPCs killed, vs. 1.7 billion other players. About normal ratio for MMOs where PvP is not the core of the game to be honest. And I bet if we saw the data broken down by year, a majority of those PvP kills were in the first year of the game and on PvP servers. We all know how the PvP servers have devolved repeatedly over time and that most still playing PvP are doing so on one PvE server now days.

 

And prior polling initiated by players over the years have shown that while many players do like and will play PvP.. it's not on the top of the list of desires for this particular MMO. Other MMOs are much more PvP centric, both in design and player base.

 

And the first link provided... was from 30 days after launch... so really not relevant 4 years later.

 

I support calls for more PvP content in this game. But it is unrealistic IMO to expect any major pivot in this MMO from the strong PvE focus it has had since about 6 months after launch. PvP in MMOs would get a lot more play and attention from developers if there were not a small but rabid faction of PvPers who insist (as exemplified by other posters personal experiences in this very thread) on making so many other players miserable through bad behaviors.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Andryah

[squirrelballz]

Sadly, you're wrong about that.

 

Nearly HALF of all players PvP'd

http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update

 

31% of of EVERYTHING that was killed in the game, was another PLAYER! Considering how quickly NPCs die and the fact that they're almost always in groups of 3+, this is a HUGE percentage.

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20141126

 

PvP was vital...and the Devs didn't gaf.

 

Thank you for sharing that data. I'd agree with you if we were talking about back then it was huge, and it could be right now but I don't have those numbers. However, now the Dev's focus has shifted back to story. Something had to have driven the shift back to story whether it was income, resources, or whatever something changed. OPS and PVP got the back end of the stick and it will be awhile til we see OPS and PVP revitalized.

 

When we began development on Knights of the Fallen Empire, we really wanted to bring to the forefront what has always made Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ great -- story. Not only to deliver a great story, but to return to our BioWare storytelling roots. That is why in Knights of the Fallen Empire you will experience a deep and personal story, and one in which your choices matter. Ultimately, your choices will determine the fate of your destiny and that of the galaxy. This story will put you at the center of an epic Star Wars adventure; and that is exactly what developing it was for our team – a deeply personal and epic adventure.

 

That is why I think the with the current state of OPS and PVP they are a part of the game not the game itself. I completely agree that the best MMO's have content for everyone but I think BW had a choice to make. Now personally I'm not happy with their decision but I love the story aspect of SWTOR and over time whatever scraps they've given for other content I've been happy to receive, guess my expectations are low. I love PVP and all I'm saying is no single content or aspect is the end all be all of the game. I guess the next EA report will tell us if the direction they chose was profitable or good for the game.

 

You're the sh_t squirrel. =]

 

Thanks you're awesome too.

 

Can I just say how AWESOME it is that someone brought actual data to the discussion?

 

Indeed Tux that was great.

Edited March 17, 2016 by squirrelballz

[DarthOvertone]

3 thumbs up.

 

Thank the maker you quoted it. That rant was outstanding.

 

 

no ever sais pvp'er were not playing the game. just that they are not the majority as they claim. which they are not.

 

Please show me the quote of anyone that said PvPers in this game are a "majority." As deluded as we PvPers can be, no PvPer has ever said that about SWTOR. Everyone knew, and knows, that SWTOR is first and foremost a PvE game with PvP as a sideshow. OP is just trying to help illustrate the size of the sideshow...and it's HUGE!!

 

 

PURE PVP games make a lot more money they swtor can ever make let me name a few

 

This is absolutely true and has been for a long time. League of Legends made the most money of any MMO the past two years and is a PvP game. In fact, a perusal of the top 10 money making MMOs reveals that the majority have a strong PvP component.

 

But that's neither here nor there. SWTOR has already cast its lot and gone the way of casual PvE, mainly because that audience is the easiest in the industry to bilk for Cartel money.

 

Casual PvP is casual. Enjoy SWTOR for what it is.

 

 

2 pages of replies but none are on-topic with OP's test request.

 

What's wrong guys did you not like the results?

 

Great point.

 

Would actually like to know what the OP's results were. lol

[ludoviccb]

Sadly, you're wrong about that.

 

Nearly HALF of all players PvP'd

http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update

 

31% of of EVERYTHING that was killed in the game, was another PLAYER! Considering how quickly NPCs die and the fact that they're almost always in groups of 3+, this is a HUGE percentage.

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20141126

 

PvP was vital...and the Devs didn't gaf.

 

It's the number of PvP kills and not of PvP death. If those kills follow the same rules as the Warzone, Arena and open PvP, a kill is added for every player to heal, guard, taunt or attack in the group of players that killed another player.

 

Usually in the WZ that I'm part of the number of death is around 1/4 to 1/5 of the PvP kills. That would put the total number of PvP deaths under 400 millions. Still a significant number, but not as impressive, which is why I believe that they used the highest PvP number to sound more impressive.

 

For all the players that did some pvp, the only data in that article is about the 1st week after launch. During that time, it's sure that people will try everything in the game. It would be interresting to see how many current players did at least 10 WZ outside the M1-4X/Pierce and the introduction (which give PvE relics) quests.

 

For the main topic of this thread. I did the test last night and for all the WZ/Arena on the Pub Side around 20:30, there was 2 arena and 3 WZ for a total of 32 players in PVP. For the Operations and FP, there was, just in EV, 18 instances with over 100 players, didn't take the time to go through the entire list to find more. Also, during the day at 14:20, there was 0 players in PvP, 1 EV group running, 1 DF group running and 1 more of each recruiting. Also, found another 12 players doing 1 FP or another. At least on the server The Shadowlands, there is a lot more instanced PvE activities going on than PvP.

Edited March 17, 2016 by ludoviccb

[TUXs]

Thank you for sharing that data. I'd agree with you if we were talking about back then it was huge, and it could be right now but I don't have those numbers. However, now the Dev's focus has shifted back to story. Something had to have driven the shift back to story whether it was income, resources, or whatever something changed. OPS and PVP got the back end of the stick and it will be awhile til we see OPS and PVP revitalized.

That's why I thought those stats were relevant though - you had said that (I'm paraphrasing) "If PvP had been popular, they'd have invested more into it" - it WAS popular...and they didn't. They never have. In fact, they've removed more PvP content than they've added. It's mind boggling to me...

[Warrgames]

Numbers are amazing. BUT using number out of context is just fail. Lets truly look at your numbers Tux...

 

Sadly, you're wrong about that.

 

Nearly HALF of all players PvP'd

http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update

This figure was from shortly after launch 4 yrs ago. How can you say this represents the current community?

A lot PvPer left when there was no ranked WZ. More left when we had the never ending preseason for ranked.

 

31% of of EVERYTHING that was killed in the game, was another PLAYER! Considering how quickly NPCs die and the fact that they're almost always in groups of 3+, this is a HUGE percentage.

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20141126

 

If you look at all the stats on this page. You see most popular color crystal is Pre-order yellow and black one. Yes the most popular color crystal in the game is +4 endurance. Makes me wonder how accurate those numbers are. Since it doesn't say player death in pvp. It says PvP kills which multi players get pvp kills when one player dies.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Warrgames

[TUXs]

If you look at all the stats on this page. You see most popular color crystal is Pre-order yellow and black one. Yes the most popular color crystal in the game is +4 endurance. Makes me wonder how accurate those numbers are. Since it doesn't say player death in pvp. It says PvP kills which multi players get pvp kills when one player dies.

Feel free to present better data than I have then. I gave you what we've been told officially. If you have something else, please post it.

[TUXs]

This figure was from shortly after launch 4 yrs ago. How can you say this represents the current community?

A lot PvPer left when there was no ranked WZ. More left when we had the never ending preseason for ranked.

If you had read the post I had replied to with that statistic, you'll see how it WAS relevant, specifically because of its age.

[Warrgames]

Feel free to present better data than I have then. I gave you what we've been told officially. If you have something else, please post it.

 

There was the dev post before 4.0 that said majority of the players play story. That more recent post by the devs; 2015 versus 2014... You talk about how major the number is because of time to kill and number of NPC in a group. Yet shortly after launch there was a bunch of high level players camping lowbies. Screwed up PvP brackets. Those numbers are from BW Third Year Anniversary promo. Which sounds better 1.7 billion or 600 million?

 

Context of numbers...

 

If you had read the post I had replied to with that statistic, you'll see how it WAS relevant, specifically because of its age.

 

It was relevant 2 months after launch...

Edited March 17, 2016 by Warrgames

[OranoQuanteras]

At least on the server The Shadowlands, there is a lot more instanced PvE activities going on than PvP.

I could run the test again this evening on SL, but I think the results would only depress OP more. IMO his vErifiable test doesn't make sense in relation to his previous complaints about queue times for PvP. If his test shows more players in PvP instances vs. PvE...then that complaint is even more irrational.

 

@OP - I agree that if the devs put a specific type of game play into a game, they should make a conscience effort to maintain it's quality. And that clearly isn't happening with SWTOR and PvP, but I personally think it's because the devs have seen the real numbers and PvP game isn't what the majority of it's player base is playing.

 

I really do hope you can find a game that you can have a fun experience with. Just sorry that it's not this one anymore.

Edited March 17, 2016 by OranoQuanteras

[Vhaegrant]

Sadly, you're wrong about that.

 

Nearly HALF of all players PvP'd

http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update

Within the first week of release I would have hoped a lot more than around 50% of players would have dropped into at least one WZ just to see what it was like. The fact that the figures here do not give any indication of how many of those players that tried it stuck around to play more than one wz means it's very difficult to use the data in a meaningful way.

 

31% of of EVERYTHING that was killed in the game, was another PLAYER! Considering how quickly NPCs die and the fact that they're almost always in groups of 3+, this is a HUGE percentage.

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20141126

 

PvP was vital...and the Devs didn't gaf.

I think I did the maths a long long time ago and it worked out to about one PvP death every 8secs in the first three years. However that Infographic is a good example of how misleading metrics can be. Yellow-black crystal the most popular? only because it was free to preorders. 57 million characters made but only 6.8 million made it far enough to get a ship (end of capital world), that's about 88% of the character population kicking their heals on the first two worlds.

 

The biggest problem with PvP in Warzones for me is the horrific matchmaking (do they still allow premade 4 mans ranked to queue in unranked?) and inability to predict what WZ I'm going to encounter (I hate hutt ball and Voidstar, can tolerate the others). Not to mention the unneeded gear gap, seriously why do PvPers that like PvP and Pvp all the time need a gear set that gives them an advantage over anyone that pokes their head in to see if it's a part of the game they'd enjoy?

 

I don't know of any other sport that has a social aspect that doesn't have some sort of handicap system that allows players of dissimilar ability to play with their pals and not feel completely out of their depth, whether it's a highly formalised handicap system such as Golf uses or a more casual 'gentleman's agreement' giving away a handful of points to the weaker player.

 

Keep Ranked for the hardcore PvP element that want to get into epeen measuring contests.

Open up unranked by putting a flat bolster (make gear irrelevant) and a buff/ debuff system for character death/kill.

[MadCuzBad]

2 pages of replies but none are on-topic with OP's test request.

 

What's wrong guys did you not like the results?

 

I'm thinking the same thing.

[robertthebard]

Sadly, you're wrong about that.

 

Nearly HALF of all players PvP'd

http://www.swtor.com/blog/new-year%E2%80%99s-pvp-update

 

31% of of EVERYTHING that was killed in the game, was another PLAYER! Considering how quickly NPCs die and the fact that they're almost always in groups of 3+, this is a HUGE percentage.

http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20141126

 

PvP was vital...and the Devs didn't gaf.

 

Sadly, reading through that first link, I never saw anything that said that over half the population PvP'd. It said that the Empire won 53% of the matches, but that hardly accounts for half the population. I'm curious, as well, if there was anything PvP specific later than 2012? The 2014 data provided in the second link doesn't say "since our last count", so it overlaps the initial rush of PvP from the 2012 statistics, and frankly, that it isn't a lot higher than 1.7 billion since launch speaks volumes. It's been a year and change since that was released though, so perhaps it's finally hit 2 billion? Got anything recent? Like within the last 6 months or so?

[robertthebard]

I'm thinking the same thing.

 

I didn't bother to do it. Why would I? You skewed the "required" data as far as you could in favor of your pet. Of course, given your previous thread, I'd expect that the PvP numbers would be extremely low, as the indicators in TUX's link indicates. So if they're higher than some FP numbers, wouldn't that mean that your previous thread was a lie?

[TUXs]

Sadly, reading through that first link, I never saw anything that said that over half the population PvP'd. It said that the Empire won 53% of the matches, but that hardly accounts for half the population. I'm curious, as well, if there was anything PvP specific later than 2012? The 2014 data provided in the second link doesn't say "since our last count", so it overlaps the initial rush of PvP from the 2012 statistics, and frankly, that it isn't a lot higher than 1.7 billion since launch speaks volumes. It's been a year and change since that was released though, so perhaps it's finally hit 2 billion? Got anything recent? Like within the last 6 months or so?

You didn't look very hard then Bob (and that wasn't what I said either)...

 

In the first week after launch there were over a million Warzone matches played, with nearly half of all players participating in Warzones.

That's the second sentence.

 

And no. I have what they've released, the same as you. Do you have anything stating otherwise?

Edited March 17, 2016 by TUXs

[robertthebard]

You didn't look very hard then Bob (and that wasn't what I said either)...

 

 

That's the second sentence.

 

And no. I have what they've released, the same as you. Do you have anything stating otherwise?

 

Yeah, KotFE. The lack of investment of time into WZs over the last 1.5 years or so, with one WZ on the way in the near future. There's what, 3 ghost town PvP servers? I'd say that speaks volumes about what's going on with PvP today, as opposed to what went on in the first couple of months, wouldn't you? I mean, let's be real here:

 

If, as you have postulated, you can use the population of fleet to determine trends in the game's health, how are nearly vacant PvP servers not an indicator to the condition of PvP? Double standards? One doesn't support your claim while the other does? How about Mad's previous thread about the state of PvP? Is it suddenly irrelevant, since we now have 4 year old data to work off of? Weren't you all over supporting how dead PvP is, and now, all of a sudden, it's alive and well, and the players are a major contributor to the game's health? What a difference a thread title makes, eh?

 

We're not posting in a vacuum, and the only evidence I've seen says that PvP isn't running as well as the OP would have us believe, you'll note there's a lack of numbers posted in the OP that he discovered. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's his 4 year old thread about how dead PvP was and that he was quitting never to return? Followed 21 minutes later by his "Well I resubbed, but now my sub's not active" thread? Seriously, I'd love me some PvP if it were relevant to the game, but it's not. It's 8 man dual faction FPs with PvE objectives that reward PvE prizes for Seasons. It doesn't matter who wins or loses, the game stays the same. So it's sort of like running DF/DP with Imp and Pub players in the same instance.

[TUXs]

Yeah, KotFE. The lack of investment of time into WZs over the last 1.5 years or so, with one WZ on the way in the near future. There's what, 3 ghost town PvP servers? I'd say that speaks volumes about what's going on with PvP today, as opposed to what went on in the first couple of months, wouldn't you? I mean, let's be real here:

 

If, as you have postulated, you can use the population of fleet to determine trends in the game's health, how are nearly vacant PvP servers not an indicator to the condition of PvP? Double standards? One doesn't support your claim while the other does?

Yeah, it's amazing what happens when you remove PvP content time (Ilum) and time (8 man ranked) again right?! Then on top of removing that content, you completely ignore class balance and only throw out a terrible new huttball map in 2.5 years.

 

The PvP servers absolutely reflect their ignoring PvP for years on end...I've been on 4 servers...3 PvP servers via merges and last year we transferred to Harb. Fleet always reflected the shrinking player base...sadly, that trend is now continuing on Harbinger...the one server I thought was immune to it.

[robertthebard]

Yeah, it's amazing what happens when you remove PvP content time (Ilum) and time (8 man ranked) again right?! Then on top of removing that content, you completely ignore class balance and only throw out a terrible new huttball map in 2.5 years.

 

The PvP servers absolutely reflect their ignoring PvP for years on end...I've been on 4 servers...3 PvP servers via merges and last year we transferred to Harb. Fleet always reflected the shrinking player base...sadly, that trend is now continuing on Harbinger...the one server I thought was immune to it.

 

That's not all they reflect. They reflect a lack of interest, over all, in PvP. If, as the op would have us believe, it was such a vibrant part of the game, it would be active on servers that are dedicated to it. It's not. According to the OP's other thread, queue times are unbearably long, 10 minutes..., and it's because PvP is dead, but then we have this thread where it's presumed he was trying to prove it's not. So, which tale are we to believe? The "tale of the tape", as it were of dead, or nearly so PvP servers and extremely long, again, 10 minutes, queue times, or the "I'm not going to show you what I got, but the only guy that did showed that PvP isn't doing any where near as well as I'd intended to show with this thread" thread?

[Cupelixx]

That's not all they reflect. They reflect a lack of interest, over all, in PvP. If, as the op would have us believe, it was such a vibrant part of the game, it would be active on servers that are dedicated to it. It's not. According to the OP's other thread, queue times are unbearably long, 10 minutes..., and it's because PvP is dead, but then we have this thread where it's presumed he was trying to prove it's not. So, which tale are we to believe? The "tale of the tape", as it were of dead, or nearly so PvP servers and extremely long, again, 10 minutes, queue times, or the "I'm not going to show you what I got, but the only guy that did showed that PvP isn't doing any where near as well as I'd intended to show with this thread" thread?

 

But that's not really the point, is it? The point is that while this thread is in the context of pvp, pve goes the same way. If you throw a pot of flowers in a dark closet and give it no water, it's not going to thrive. PvP WAS popular and very active until it was allowed to wither away with lack of updates and new content.

[ivanhedgehog]

I didn't do the OP's "tests", for a couple of reasons:

1. I couldn't be bothered.

2. Only BW, who has the actual usage data, knows for sure.

3. The populations of any given area, warzone, FP, or OP at any one time does not represent the actual proportions. You'd have to add up ALL the people doing any sort of PvE (which would include exploration, decorating, datacron hunting, etc, etc) vs ALL the people doing any sort of PvP to get a true answer.

 

Basically, I know from having played many MMOs that PvP is a part of most of them, but the basic thing comes down to that this is an RPG (Role Playing Game) and not an FPS (First Person Shooter) or MOBA (Battle Arena), so it would not be surprising if PvP was not the main thrust of the game, especially one that stresses Story.

 

not to mention comparing warzones that can be repeated over and over and over and over to ops that are locked at 1 time a week.

[ivanhedgehog]

Thank the maker you quoted it. That rant was outstanding.

 

massive snip

 

Casual PvP is casual. Enjoy SWTOR for what it is.

 

 

 

 

Great point.

 

Would actually like to know what the OP's results were. lol

 

LOL made over a billion last year. world of warcraft is making that per quarter. who is the biggest?

[DarthOvertone]

LOL made over a billion last year. world of warcraft is making that per quarter. who is the biggest?

 

You didn't read the linked article did you? WoW was #4.

Edited March 17, 2016 by DarthOvertone

[peter_plankskull]

Not to be a buzz kill, and no offense to people who enjoy PvP....

 

The data however makes it clear that this is a PvE dominated game. 4 billion+ NPCs killed, vs. 1.7 billion other players. About normal ratio for MMOs where PvP is not the core of the game to be honest. And I bet if we saw the data broken down by year, a majority of those PvP kills were in the first year of the game and on PvP servers. We all know how the PvP servers have devolved repeatedly over time and that most still playing PvP are doing so on one PvE server now days.

.

 

I know the metrics are from 4 years ago and don't represent the majority of the people today, but you have to keep in mind the difference between killing a player, and killing a NPC.

 

Most standard mobs come in packs of 3, and depending where I am, I can melt most of that standard mob with the smugglers sweeping blasters skill, and the skill itself takes 4.5 seconds to channel without a boost to alacrity. To kill a real thinking player, they will most likely throw up CDs, heals, and CC, and on top of that, its not the easiest to find a player compared to killing a NPC. NPCs are flooded throughout the entire game and its MUCH harder to find a actual living, breathing, and flagged player, usually impossible to find them flagged.

 

Not only are NPCs are in a MUCH larger abundance, but they are much easier to find, and much easier to kill compared to actual players.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

de·ni·al noun /di- ˈ nī(-ə)l, dē-/

Definition of DENIAL

1 : a psychological defense mechanism in which

confrontation with a personal problem or with reality is avoided by denying the existence of the problem or reality

2 : refusal to admit the truth or reality

3 : refusing to admit the truth or reality of something unpleasant

 

Seriously man, do you have a learning disability or OCD? Because it seems you are obsessed with posting these rants about pvp, then the only response your brain seems to be able to come up with is plagerizing a dictionaries definition of denial.

 

Not really a good representative of PVP players that like to go on about how it takes thinking on your feet to pvp over pve. At least the person you replied to had enough independent thinking tompost their own sentence.

Edited March 17, 2016 by lightSaberAddiCt

[knowmyname]

Really? Sadly you are serious and the bashing you got was your own doing. Did you forget as others have said that you were once a noob in this game? Higher Skill set required for PVP that made me chuckle. Please stop making PVP players look like turds it's already bad enough with the stigma around here. I've been doing PVP and OPS for years and I can tell you that so many tactics I used in OPS rolled into my PVP tactics and vice versa. I get being frustrated about people with wrong gear or bad rotation but seriously if all you do is complain about them then that is petty and pathetic. Why not help them out instead, the more people improve the more they are able to share their knowledge of the game.

 

 

 

To the OP I get that that you want to prove how vital PVP is to the game. PVP is a part of SWTOR it isn't the whole game.If PVP was as vital as many think it is the Devs would have gone with a PVP focus for game direction. Yet the only proof you need that it's not is their huge shift back to story telling. Alot of players got the short end of the content stick, except players who want just story which btw I'm all for but I think Story can only keep your players busy for so long. You see right now the only reason I even have hopes for PVP improvement is because we got new maps after 2 years but that alone should tell you the state of PVP. Personally I do believe PVP has very little to do with the health and well being of this game. If it did we would see new consistent PVP content, strong class balance and a major emphasis on high end loot and gear being placed in PVP.

 

What bashing?

 

I'm simply making a statement and the general differences between scripted operation gameplay and the very fluid PvP gameplay.

 

I think you're letting emotions cloud your judgements of others