Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Dmann]

so 20 people cry about the economy due to slicing and the other 600,000 of us suffer the nerf,

 

I'm tired of bullsheet like this. really Why didn't Bioware put out an "in game poll" TO EVERY PLAYER so they could properly gauge how the community felt about it it, PRIOR to nerfing it into complete waste of time?????????????

 

I bet the Poll would have shown the majority of the playerbase were absolutely happy with how slicing was. Sadly looks like Bioware is following suit to Blizzard and nerfing stuff due to the vocal minority on the forums....

[pSyToR]

I don't think I'm hardcore by any means - but I have 8 characters all with Slicing, and was making bank and swimming in schematics and mission items. When something is overpowered in an MMO, you use the hell out of it until they hit it with the nerfbat, then get back to playing normally.

 

The only thing I'll miss is swimming in credits. As it stands, I have enough credits to level up my tradeskills, get my trainings, have some decent gear waiting for me, and some frills on the side.

 

I'm actually glad they nerfed it - jumping from character to character was getting annoying.

 

I mean come on - when something is SO good that it encourages behavior like mine, it's obviously unbalanced.

 

Congratulation to your game breaking behavior... Congratulation to be the reasons of this nerf...

 

Some people were actually using to help others...

[offensivex]

 

I'm tired of bullsheet like this. really Why didn't Bioware put out an "in game poll" TO EVERY PLAYER so they could properly gauge how the community felt about it it,

 

Because, honestly, it doesn't matter how we feel about it, it's their game and they will balance it how they see fit. If they took an poll, absolutely no one with Slicing would say yes, please nerf my income.

 

Did they overnerf it, yes. Would the community have agreed to -any- nerf? no.

[Kashaan]

Let's play pros and cons.

 

 

Slicing post-nuke

 

Pros:

 

-World nodes

 

Yup, that's it. Schematics and missions are too rare to offset the mission cost, and augments can be crafted elsewhere.

 

Cons:

 

-Spike in prices at AH

-Decrease in sales at AH

-More Credits sold by RMT

 

Let's just hope that someone made a mistake in the coding and nerfed it harder than they intended. As it is, they've made the skill pretty much worthless. (71%+ drop)

[Aexon]

What a lot of people don't understand(or choose to ignore) is what people have to give up to take slicing. Now that may not mean much to you but consider a biochem who instead of diplomacy takes slicing for credit purposes and a chance at some implant schematics. Because he doesn't have diplomacy, he now has to purchase medical supplies from the GTN or conveniently have another character with diplomacy. The case of having another character with diplomacy aside, this person now needs an abundance of credits to make up that lack of diplomacy. This is what slicing is for. Slicing is like taking a piece out of a puzzle and replacing it with another that just barely fits, but looks like it belongs to a separate puzzle entirely.

 

Slicing is not a crafting skill. You do not make things, you do not find crafting materials to make things. You find money, both directly and indirectly. This is the primary and only aspect of the skill, to find money and offset whatever hole you dug yourself in by skipping the second requirement of a crafting profession. If missions for credit boxes become unprofitable(or not profitable enough considering the time it takes to complete a mission), the skill becomes unpopular and will be dropped by a majority of players.

 

The problem with slicing before the nerf(and the reason so much money was made), is how a level 10 could be running level 50 slicing missions for level 50 credit boxes. There was, and still is, no barrier to higher tier missions other than the skill itself. Given enough time, anyone can get to 400 skill and run top tier missions for huge profit at the incorrect levels. I find myself at 100-150 skill higher than my level would dictate, and thus running level 41-48 slicing missions at level 29. Instead of nerfing rewards all around, missions need to be based on both skill level and character level.

 

EDIT: I would like to add, the problem with players earning too many credits doesn't come from the amount of credits in a box, but the level boxes which they are receiving. A level 20 character should be opening level 20 boxes exclusively, and if so, should be earning appropriate amounts of money. It's when those characters are opening boxes 20 levels higher they are getting too many credits. When you get to level 40, you need the extra credits a level 40 box has(compared to a level 20 box), because things like speeder training and ability ranks cost much more at level 40. A level 20 character should only be getting level 20 boxes.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Aexon

[Erlestoke]

I am 400 Slicing. For 3hrs and 25mins that I played for I ran all slicing missions. I only received one mission discovery during that time. I sent the crew out to get lockboxes of all different types but mostly upper levels. My stats for lockbox missions are as followed:

 

Class Level, Type of yield, cost, received, profit/(loss)

 

C6 Mod 1415 : 1270 = (145)

C6 Abd 1485 : 1217 = (268)

C5 Abd 1135 : 1158 = 23

C5 Rich 2025 : 2254 = 229

C6 Mod 1415 : 1459 = 44

C6 Abd 1485 : 1193 = (292)

C4 Bntf 1250 : 1643 = 393

C6 Mod 1415 : 1460 = 45

C6 Abd 1485 : 1457 = (28)

C5 Rich 2025 : 1795 = (230)

C5 Rich 1930 : 2135 = 205

C6 Abd 1485 : 1181 = (304)

C6 Mod 1415 : 1484 = 69

C5 Rich 1930 : 7077 = 5147

C3 Rich 870 : 895 = 25

C6 Abd 1485 : 1677 = 192

C4 Bntf 1250 : 1904 = 654

C5 Rich 1930 : 1893 = (37)

C4 Bntf 1175 : 1493 = 318

Totals 28605 : 34645 = 6040

 

So 6k credits and only really because of one mission I got a nice chunk of credits. I sent out my companions on epic missions right before I logged out so tomorrow morning I will be able to log in and hopefully see that they didn't fail since those missions cost 3115c each. It seems doing rich types or not you can gain or lose credits either way. I hope that BWA looks at the slicing information that's generated in the game and improves the mission pay outs otherwise no one will keep slicing. People saying that they are not losing any money from any mission is not being truthful. As you can see I have run all types of missions for different amounts with different companions and you still lose credits on some missions.

[Daynna]

Well what did you expect? You have some of the same developers here that brought the nge to SWG. Look at how many times they hit that game with the nerf bat. I haven't messed with slicing yet, and still plan to regardless of the nerf. I'm open to any advice anyone would be willing to share.

[Hidalgo]

started to run tests again about 40 minutes go, and for what ever reason i'm now making about 50 credits per run, at this rate though it will be 20 runs to make back the amount i lost during the same missions earlier in the day.

[Olarid]

Gather and sell mats, it will make more money than slicing now, its really pointless.

 

Say goodbye to epic missions!

[bukosknr]

April fools come a little early? You have to be joking. I lose money about 70% of my missions at 400 slicing doing only abundant and higher.

[Kashaan]

Well what did you expect? You have some of the same developers here that brought the nge to SWG. Look at how many times they hit that game with the nerf bat. I haven't messed with slicing yet, and still plan to regardless of the nerf. I'm open to any advice anyone would be willing to share.

 

 

Don't bother running any missions for Slicing. You will either make insignificant profit (a couple thousand in 4+ hours), or will lose money doing them, getting nothing in return (at least other gathering professions give you materials for the cost).

 

If you're going to take Slicing, only take it for gathering world nodes or for using in Flashpoints/Operations. There's no other point to it at the moment.

[Chasted]

If you checked, I posted this elsewhere (Because I'm stubborn) but I'll just post this here:

 

Slicing has very little actually going for it outside of "money" (which is expanded on the next paragraph, skip it if you don't care). Now that benefit has been drastically reduced because of how powerful that benefit was why don't you think of a different way to improve the profession and make it viable? The "profit" it generates could be kept "as is" but you can't just cry it's no longer worthwhile having.

 

The Patterns, to what I've seen, are all Cybertech "flavour" items like space ship parts and bikes. The Augmentations are far from useful considering they are only used in "critted" crafted items and very few people will be bothered modding those items unless it's in their late 40's (or level 50) and the item in question is purple... And then only with a high quality purple augmentation that works best for their class (A random factor for the slicer) which practically makes the other "half" of the Crew skill pointless.

 

The random "super missions" are exactly that; random. While useful it isn't a reliable reason to take Slicing as a skill on it's own.

 

Instead do this:

• Roll the augmentation missions and "Lockbox" missions together (further reduce income if felt required to adjust for this)
  
• Instead of augmentation missions you have material missions for the Cybertech Profession (Instead of metals you could be collecting "computer chips" or "programs". Metal can be provided by Scavenging)
  
• Take away the synergy with Cybertech and Underworld Trading
  

 

Why nerf Underworld Trading and buff Slicing?

 

Underworld Trading currently does the following:

• Supports 3 different crafting Professions (All other mission skills support 1)
  
• Only source for Orange-Type Schematics (I think)
  
• Provides gifts for companions
  

 

It does a whole damn lot. Why not just take away one crafting profession and make Slicing a quasi-mission skill which has "lockboxes" scattered around the world that contain small amounts of money?

[ryancwn]

And treasure hunting. You get green gear or blue gear on crit roll and you lose money on white box so slicing is pretty much worthless compare to treasure hunting.

 

Treasure hunting also collect gemstone and I can't remember if they can gather companion gift.

[Hidalgo]

Gather and sell mats, it will make more money than slicing now, its really pointless.

 

Say goodbye to epic missions!

 

downside to that is that for some reason, people are using the GTN suggested price for selling mats instead of using the gathering cost / number received. most things are sold for about 20cpu less than they cost to gather.

[Bosseking]

Thank god I managed to get most out of it then. Can finally roll to underworld trading now. Was already planning to do that at lvl 50, but what's the point of keeping slicing the last 9 levels if it doesn't even make profit?

[Corrik]

I'm sure that this spreadsheet has been posted before, but I'm going to post it anyway. It has a good amount of nice hard numbers for just what this nerf has done to slicing. Clearly this nerf went too far and needs to be adjusted. It would be nice if Bioware offered any comment on this situation.

[Bohrizan]

Underworld trading provides a service to someone. It gets them materials that they couldn't get on their own. And you put in the training and the money necessary to get it up to the level of the mat you wanted to sell.

 

Slicing is just free money. For absolutely no cost. As for opportunity cost, fine. Whatever. But at the very LEAST, they should put in something that they won't get a straight net gain from. Like a commendation or something. Or time spent looking for lockboxes.

 

Alright, nobody said anything so allow me; you're stupid.

 

You have obviously never used Slicing, at least past 30, because Slicing also provide mission schematics that supports all other crew skills, SCHEMATICS PEOPLE NEED TO ADVANCE THEIR OWN SKILL. You know what else Slicers provide? Everyone should know this one...

 

CREDITS!

 

Get this: if some guy farms 150k credits with Slicing, gets his vehicle and vehicle training, and has all abilities up to date... what is he going to do? Me personally? Beast my character. Get all the best purchasable gear, mods, etc.

 

So, guess who now has all of that Slicer's credits?

 

It enrages me how incapable you people are of simple thought.

[Pansophist]

Alright, nobody said anything so allow me; you're stupid.

 

You have obviously never used Slicing, at least past 30, because Slicing also provide mission schematics that supports all other crew skills, SCHEMATICS PEOPLE NEED TO ADVANCE THEIR OWN SKILL. You know what else Slicers provide? Everyone should know this one...

 

CREDITS!

 

Get this: if some guy farms 150k credits with Slicing, gets his vehicle and vehicle training, and has all abilities up to date... what is he going to do? Me personally? Beast my character. Get all the best purchasable gear, mods, etc.

 

So, guess who now has all of that Slicer's credits?

 

It enrages me how incapable you people are of simple thought.

 

What do you think got us in this mess to begin with? Sigh. I just hope Bioware doesn't demonstrate this lack of thought into their patches in the future.

[Mccluggen]

I ran about 40 missions (and plugged them into a spreadshet), all of which were either bountiful or rich, from tiers 3-5. My return averaged out to a net of 792 credits an hour. Literally one failed mission could have meant a net loss for the entire play session.

 

With world nodes slicing is an ok leveling crew skill, but the missions serve no useful purpose other than allowing access to a new tier of nodes if you get behind. At 50 I am dropping it immediately unless they roll it back.

[RaithZ]

After looking at the data available, and weighing the options that are possible right now, I went ahead and dropped 400 level slicing on my main (and only) toon. I took slicing because a gathering profession that combined lock picking and computer hacking sounded fun and in character for an Imperial Agent. I wasn't going to get all the crafting mats I needed for Cybertech, but I could use the funds I got from Slicing to buy the Underworld mats I needed.

 

Or so I thought. Mats have been expensive and hard to come by. But still, I was making enough credits to get by on training and save up some for when the mats would be more plentiful, which I assumed would happen as the server economy progressed.

 

Mission's don't sell for much, and Augments are not worth selling at the moment as demand just isn't there. With Slicing hit by a nerf in the range of 70% according to the data I saw, it was in no way a viable option for me to level Cybertech any longer.

 

So today I dropped my 400 level slicing, and picked up Underworld Trading. I had 160k credits, not even enough to buy the level 40 mount training, when I made the switch.

 

I feel somewhat slighted here, as I picked it for in game reasons and it seemed like a smart choice at the time. But because of an over-reactionary nerf, I've had to accommodate reality. Even if Slicing gets buffed back up to a reasonable level, I found that this crazy train was too harsh to ride any longer. I'm upset over dropping a max level skill a week into the game's official release, but what can you do?

 

I couldn't have said it better myself... *waves goodbye to slicing*

Edited December 28, 2011 by RaithZ

[Cucubelu]

Nerf was coming, we saw that yea.

 

But lets face it, when sending out companions to retrieve negative credits, then we def. got a problem.

 

Needs fixing.

 

Other than that, slicing is fine.

[Kashaan]

Nerf was coming, we saw that yea.

 

But lets face it, when sending out companions to retrieve negative credits, then we def. got a problem.

 

Needs fixing.

 

Other than that, slicing is fine.

 

 

Yeah, someone ran the numbers and they nerfed it by 71%+. A nerf was definitely coming, but it should have been closer to 30-50%.

[Zennshi]

So let me get this right... People flood the forums whining about slicing, so they do something about it so people whine twice as hard? LMFAO THIS IS A VIDEO GAME GET OVER IT! IMO slicing should have been taken out to begin with and this would never have been an issue..

 

 

People are just pissed cuz everyone who had early access is sitting on a gold mine (760k here) and they didnt get a chance to exploit it... I dont know what ppl are talking about negative returns, you are doing it wrong... Im still making huge profit, just about 30% less then before... Put the effort into figuring out the skill rather then crying about it, and you would still be making a ton of money for doing almost nothing...

 

Take slicing out completely IMO, save everyone the tears! Slicing makes no sense.. If you want money for not crafting go farm like in every other MMo, go play the auction house.. Spoiled *** little kids....

 

To all the ppl still slicing and doing it right, keep the secret, we will laugh all the way to the bank!

 

Numbers or ****

[OklahomaSooner]

The nerf was really 70%? I can't believe Bioware would be that careless in doing this.

 

Slicing definitely is useless. I hope for a hotfix, but would be more than content for this to be fixed in next week's patch.

 

Please give us some information, Bioware.

[Dustangel]

This got utterly ridiculous. I send my people out for 30-50 minutes, spend somewhere around 3k and I have to be happy I get a bonus of 40 credits out of it?

And that's actually the best case scenario I've had so far. I will wait a few weeks for a fix, but you can bet I won't be using the missions in any way. What for?

Enhancement slots aren't the norm and the missions are worthless unless I get really lucky, be it a few credits or a recipe (usually the same one over and over anyway...).