Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Soldarith]

I am level 22 and have a current Slicing skill of 386. I have just over 250k credits in the bank and have spent well over 200k credits on the trade network for myself and my spouse's trade skills, equipment, raw materials, etc. This Nerf has all but halted my spending.

 

Most of my cash has come from augments, and mission schematics I've picked up from Slicing. However, as I posted back when the game first released (and twice in Beta): Slicing needed about a 20%-25% Nerf to the return amounts from Tier 1 through Tier 4. The higher Tiers were in-line and not outlandish in credit returns vs time and credit investment.

 

What this change shows are a few things, in my own opinion, that all result in a bad outcome:

 

- Slicing returns for lower Tiers have been talked about, /bugged, and feedback'd by many testers for many months. Now, after release, is when there is an adjustment? Poor form for taking testing data and feedback into consideration.

 

- The adjustment, i.e. Nerf, was far too severe. Exact percentages are not known yet, but it is very safe to assume the Nerf is well-beyond the needed. This nets in what looks to be a knee-jerk reaction by Bioware and makes them look more like Blizzard than a company that uses in-game data.

 

- The skill has to make a profit. There simply is no other reason for the skill: you trade your ability to obtain rare crafting materials for the ability to obtain credits to pay for those materials. Plain and simple. Now, the Slicing skill cannot pay for itself to level up, let alone turn a profit. Without profits, there will be less purchasing, and without purchasing there will be less buying on the trade network of crafting items and crafted equipment -- which is already WAY too low to sustain a healthy game economy anyway.

 

- Slicing schematics and missions prices are going to go through the roof. If you think that other crafters are already poor or low on credits, just wait. As it stands right now other crafting skills make little credits; especially gathering skills -- They are all a time and credit sink. However, this change will have a direct impact on all of those skills via the Slicing rewards' prices.

 

All-in-all, this was a very poor change.

[Banetek]

I think this is great because it was so simple that even chinese gold /credit farmers were using it to stock pile credits to sell.

 

I think people who refuse to learn a skill should miss out versus the people who actualy contribute to the player econamy

[imabeasto]

just another case of a development team that doesn't think they can do any wrong and makes changes willy nilly to calm the masses. Didn't you guys play ANY mmos before you designed this one? Can't see the forest for the trees syndrome. And i had such high hopes for this game......

[Mannic]

if slicing was never about "free money lol" then they shouldn't have DESIGNED it that way in the first place.

 

it's like making something that looks like a boat, selling it to people with the intention that it allows travel on water. then getting angry at the people out having a good time on the water and sinking all their boats.

 

True or false? You can still harvest Slicing nodes, receive a lockbox, open that lockbox, and get immediate free credits for doing so.

 

No other profession makes a net income from missions. They are a net loss for everyone. More than anything they're a way for you to buy skill-ups in a craft with money rather than having to go out into the game and do something. Why should slicers be any different? Until now Slicing was the only profession that could entirely offset the price of skilling up to 400 through missions, and not only offset those costs but make a profit from nothing more than doing missions.

 

So, not only did slicer not lose money like every other profession, they actually made money. And this dynamic of no net-loss for doing missions meant that any level 10 alt could have a slicing ability of 400 and make thousands of credits an hour. A stupid, stupid system, and one that needed to be nerfed into the ground. I'm sure they'll do something to make it a little better in the future, but right now it's exactly where it needs to be.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mannic

[ImperiumAlpha]

Augments ? shove it up your ***

[Msbungle]

The slicing nerf was very necessary if you look at it from an economics perspective; as it was slicing was causing massive amounts of inflation. Slicing was essentially a privatized form of money printing. This is worsened by the fact that the basic input into the economy; quests and loot doesn't scale with inflatiton like wages do in real life (see Philips Curve). Honestly, BioWare should consult a proffessional economist on how changes will impact the market.

 

Not sure where you people get this from. The majority of the items on the GTN are pretty cheap if you ask me, slicing or not. I guess you are pulling these theories from the same place you accuse slicers of making money.

 

Just be honest people! Someone was getting more money than you in their craft and you didn't like it!! That is the truth. Someone had something you didn't have and it upset you. And in a video game at that!

[Banetek]

How about instead of the nerf that they put in, they go with the "real life" nerf and say that every person who got rich slicing just got nabbed by authorities and now has to pay a 500,000 credit fine for breaking the law?

 

No?

 

Then maybe leave "real life" out of it?

 

haha yes, I play KOTOR to escape from the realitys of an obama driven system

[EvanSnowWolf]

My new fear is now that anytime there is a Twitter feed of whining and crying, Bioware will cave.

 

Pretty soon we'll have gearscore, custom UIs, "honor" points for ganking, fully open APIs for mods, macros, etc

[keepster]

Ok this is nuts i decided to just run them from server start up to now and i lost over 30k credits after opening up all the boxes. Slicing was making more creds then it should of but now its been pushed too far also the schematics on my server are selling for next to nothing and this missions items are near worthless with a lvl 40 riding costing 210,000 where are we to get the creds with most things selling for quarter or more then what they default at

[imabeasto]

I think this is great because it was so simple that even chinese gold /credit farmers were using it to stock pile credits to sell.

 

I think people who refuse to learn a skill should miss out versus the people who actualy contribute to the player econamy

 

hey goobidy goob, i did learn a skill...it ws called SLICING...now it's like that Dora the Explorer show...Slicer NO Slicing...Slicer Nooooooooooo Slicing.

[killnay]

True or false? You can still harvest Slicing nodes, receive a lockbox, open that lockbox, and get immediate free credits for doing so.

 

No other profession makes a net income from missions. They are a net loss for everyone. More than anything they're a way for you to buy skill-ups in a craft with money rather than having to go out into the game and do something. Why should slicers be any different?

 

 

because by taking slicing we cannot be self-sufficient crafters like every1 else, who can craft items and sell them thus making even more credits than slicers.

[Racheakt]

Well this IS BioWare's first MMO. Pity they didn't learn a damn thing from all the rest of the MMOs out there.

 

Actualy no, they have a bunch of the EA/Mythic team that did Warhammer from what I understand.

 

But that being said you have a point.

[Enako]

I agree 100 percent with this. A lot of people were clearly exaggerating the amount of money to be made from slicing and the endless bragging made it inevitable that the devs would give a heavy-handed response, which is what game devs always do. .

 

that is what has caught my attention.

 

technically game development should already be aware of everything that can possibly happen mathematically. games are not just developed out of one's butt. there are charts, spreadsheets, statistics, a lot of stuff.

 

so, the rate the slicing was giving cash and how much, was known.

 

if they launched the game knowing this, why nerf it when some random vocal minority blabbered about it ?

[Walfredo]

It'd be really nice if all these noobs would stop ************ about slicing being 'nerfed'.

 

I have been making money all day since the change. Slicing was hardly nerfed, if it was nerfed, it wouldn't be worth having, to anyone. People need to learn to not use the word nerfed so loosely.

 

If slicing was actually nerfed, no one would be able to profit from it. Anyone who says things like the OP clearly doesn't understand that slicing is a numbers game.

 

The way things stand, if you spend 20,000 credits on getting lockboxes, you will be closer to 30,000 credits after you have spent 20k on doing slicing missions (unless you're choosing moderate yield missions like an idiot) than you will be closer to 10,000 if you had lost money.

 

This is like asking why you get boxes that contain 3-5000 credits when you only spent 1500-2000. It's called random rolls and rewards...

 

Slicing was nerfed, lol. What a joke. People really need to understand economics more and ***** less.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Walfredo

[Kashaan]

Now you're like every other craft where you don't earn money going on missions.

 

 

O.o Really?

 

There's no point in sending crew on a mission for Credits when it costs more credits to send them than you get as a reward.

 

That's called USELESS. For crafting missions you get items for your credits. With slicing now, you don't GAIN anything... you just lose credits. They have rendered it useless.

 

 

If they're going to keep it this way, then they need to get rid of of the Lockbox missions entirely and replace them with missions that grant some kind of item (besides Augments, since we already have those missions).

[Nebroc]

For sure slicing was making a lot of credits but this nerf has prolly gone to far, from my last 3 missions i'm done 2500 credits, one 500 profit and 2 bombed.

[WickedTexan]

I am level 22 and have a current Slicing skill of 386. I have just over 250k credits in the bank and have spent well over 200k credits on the trade network for myself and my spouse's trade skills, equipment, raw materials, etc. This Nerf has all but halted my spending.

 

Money Quote, pun intended.

 

Bioware sees a problem with a level 22 character being able to make almost half a million in credits. It puts those who've selected less profitable trade skills at lower levels at a financial disadvantage when they're trying to grind out there skills, due to factors of inflation and material cost. #occupyGalacticTadeNetwork

[ImperiumAlpha]

True or false? You can still harvest Slicing nodes, receive a lockbox, open that lockbox, and get immediate free credits for doing so.

 

No other profession makes a net income from missions. They are a net loss for everyone. More than anything they're a way for you to buy skill-ups in a craft with money rather than having to go out into the game and do something. Why should slicers be any different?

 

Foolish... Boxes were nerf too. The whole Slicing skill is now subpar to ANY other skill. Because other skill actually give you something you can sold for anoying price. Like 3 to 10 times higher than real cost.

[ArchonGamer]

I reject your idea that all this nonsense needs to revolve around Level 50 characters.

 

100% agree, the poster that said it's around 50 is just ignorant. I have 2 level 400 slicers and the highest level is 27. Running level 50 missions I average 300 per 30 minutes it was around 2,000. So yes it needed a reduction but this was extreme.

 

To the people saying anything it's free money, well yes but I could be doing level 50 salvage missions and sell those resource on the AH for a lot, lot more.

[Mannic]

because by taking slicing we cannot be self-sufficient crafters like every1 else, who can craft items and sell them thus making even more credits than slicers.

 

Crafting is going to be an utter waste of time in TOR just like in every other game. Just like in every other MMO crafting will be a net loss so that you can maybe make yourself a couple pieces of nice gear at end game. Come on now. Most of us have been around the block a couple times and we know how much of a money sink crafting really is. And you can still take an actual craft if there's something that you need to support yourself, like Bio or Cyber later on.

[wikimon]

No other profession makes a net income from missions. They are a net loss for everyone. More than anything they're a way for you to buy skill-ups in a craft with money rather than having to go out into the game and do something. Why should slicers be any different? Until now Slicing was the only profession that could entirely offset the price of skilling up to 400 through missions, and not only offset those costs but make a profit from nothing more than doing missions.

 

what's the point of skilling up a skill that LOSES YOU MONEY and GIVES NO OTHER BENEFIT.

 

if you think augments and "field lockboxes" are such a benefit have you even bothered weighing that against ANY OTHER GATHERING PROFESSION ?

 

think before you post, holy sith, man

[Thisgameisgay]

Name Yield Cost Received Profit Totals

 

Mako Rich 1930 2630 700 700

Torian Abundant 1135 1407 272 972

Mako Rich 2025 2182 157 1129

Gault Abundant 1485 1793 308 1437

Mako Rich 2025 7075 5050 6487

Torian Rich 1930 2584 654 7141

Gault Abundant 1485 2133 648 7789

Torian Bountiful 1250 2219 969 8758

Mako Rich 2025 1795 -230 8528

Torian Bountiful 1250 1297 47 8575

Mako Rich 2025 1681 -344 8231

Gault Abundant 1485 1233 -252 7979

Mako Rich 870 796 -74 7905

Torian Abundant 1075 1137 62 7967

Mako Rich 2025 1574 -451 7516

Gault Abundant 1485 1987 502 8018

Torian Rich 1930 2865 935 8953

Mako Abundant 1075 1188 113 9066

Gault Rich 2025 2507 482 9548

Torian Abundant 1485 1186 -299 9249

Mako Bountiful 1175 1691 516 9765

Mako Bountiful 1175 1742 567 10332

Gault Rich 2025 2100 75 10407

Mako Bountiful 1175 1008 -167 10240

Torian Bountiful 1250 1998 748 10988

 

Also got one lvl 340 Underworld Purple Mission.

 

I have 400 Slicing and my affection amounts are as follows:

 

Mako: 10,000

Gault: 2699

Torian: 5255

 

This was over a span of 4 hours.

[Racheakt]

True or false? You can still harvest Slicing nodes, receive a lockbox, open that lockbox, and get immediate free credits for doing so.

 

No other profession makes a net income from missions. They are a net loss for everyone. More than anything they're a way for you to buy skill-ups in a craft with money rather than having to go out into the game and do something. Why should slicers be any different?

 

Actualy "that depends", Slicing is the only one that gives credit chests (at a loss now), others give materials and/or items that can bee sold for potential profit or for use in a crafting profession.

 

Slicing now provides no potential for profit, nor is it a reliable source of crafting materials or formuals for sell. It is flushing credits down the crapper for no return.

 

Mark my words, Treasure Hunting is next on the list for whiners, as it gives "free" items.

[Mannic]

Foolish... Boxes were nerf too. The whole Slicing skill is now subpar to ANY other skill. Because other skill actually give you something you can sold for anoying price. Like 3 to 10 times higher than real cost.

 

"Can" sell and "will" sell are two completely different things. Any scavenger will tell you that for every item he sells in AH, he's got 5 sitting in his hold unsold. This is another BS argument by those who want their money-press. Gatherers don't sell everything they net from missions at a profit and even when they do they have to do extra work to get that money and then they have to wait for it. Which is precisely why SO MANY crafters took slicing. Because it was /faceroll easy money, and credits can always be easily converted into any other crafting mat you need. It virtually nullifies any and all benefits to crafting, especially when you consider that, like most other MMO's, the only gear that will matter in TOR 6 months from now will be raid-level gear or gear from Warfronts. It won't be crafted gear.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mannic

[Fellfromgrace]

Now that slicing is utterly worthless people will just buy credits from farmers.

 

I seriously don't understand all the whiners hating on slicing. ROLL A FREAKING ALT AND TAKE SLICING YOURSELF!

 

How hard would that have been?? In a way slicing was a genius move that could have rendered gold sellers completely obsolete. However the QQ'ers won again and in a few weeks when everyone is trying to buy all their skills and slots those same QQ'ers will be whining about how Bioware failed at keeping all the spammers out.

 

Thanks community, great job!