Damage Meters

[Dasset]

Imo Damage meters are useless.

 

If you manage to kill a boss, who cares who did the most dps, if someone carried the whole group etc, you killed the boss, thats it. Gratz.

DPS meters is an important part of a guild who wants to succeed in being one of the better guilds on their server. If we fail to down bosses due to lack of dps, how should we know which ones to replace? Should we just replace every single dps in our guild? That's alot of work... Even the idea of replacing one-by-one to see if it gets better is a huge hassle, and is nearly impossible in operations.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Dasset

[jibboo]

How is this thread still going?

 

Let it die.

 

 

They're coming.

[Rhaeton]

I've had it with this garbage. I feel like I'm still beta-testing this game, halfway through January, and I'm not paying anymore for something that feels half-finished.

 

There's no situational awareness in groups. There's no clue about where your threat is at and you have no clue about how your damage stacks up against your teammates.

 

Bye..

[DragonAgeOrgins]

To the OP

 

NO

 

This a thousand times.

 

NO

[OZGOD]

I'm confused about why people would complain about meters, whether they be for damage, heals, or a meter for measuring stuns, snares, etc. They're just a way of measuring performance. They are unnecessary when levelling content, but if you want to have a viable end game they are a great tool for figuring out how to improve, both individually or as a raid group.

 

Meters are not bad per se. They are just measurement tools, like speedometers or rulers. It all comes down to how they are used. If all you are doing is driving to and from work then a speedometer's only value is to make sure you don't get a ticket. Players who aren't interested in competitive endgame will probably never have a need for a meter. If you just play for leisure then your only criteria is to be happy while playing. But when it comes to competitive endgame it becomes important to quantitatively measure performance so you can see where you are failing and fix it. It's like being a race car driver; if you are a race car driver then a speedometer becomes important, because it helps you to objectively and competitively measure your own performance and that of members of your team.

 

Maybe right now SWTOR endgame is pretty easy and you can use a binary solution set: either we killed the boss or we didn't. And certainly meters are imperfect in that they do not take into account variables like movement in a fight or certain fight mechanics that require DPS classes to have some downtime to fulfill other functions. Just like a speedometer reading doesn't tell the whole story as to what is the best racing setup for a race car. But if you want to have some credible theorycrafting on classes, abilities and the like, then you need to be able to measure what those abilities are doing. Meters also help provide a quantitative base for balancing classes.

Edited January 16, 2012 by OZGOD

[Gorgewall]

Boy, I remember those dark days when I had to figure out who wasn't pulling their weight in a group by simply comparing one awesome DPS to the dude I figured was slacking. That took all of, like, thirty seconds of watching them.

 

Damage meters will come some time after the combat log comes, which is already on its way. Asking for them every twenty minutes doesn't speed this process at all, and no one's going to forget if it isn't mentioned every hour. Patience and common sense are lost virtues, apparently.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Gorgewall

[tcander]

This game does not need a damage meter.

 

What it needs, and this is really the ONLY add-on I support in Star Wars The Old Republic ... is a Midichlorian Counter.

 

That way players can count the midichlorians of their fellow players, and know how good they are at Star Wars.

 

This fits the lore. And it fits the suggestion that all the players are asking for a measuring stick. In star wars, we need to be counting midis, not dee-pee-essas.

 

And really, if you're a Jedi with lazy swimmers and low midichlorian count, it's best everyone knows this up front.

 

And if you're a sith with limp midichlorians, you don't deserve to keep that slave collar on Vette.

 

/thread

 

 

I support this

[MasterKayote]

Since the group has a damage meter to see this, they can quickly scream and yell at the Merc insulting his gear, talent spec for his role, and his DPS. Without a damage meter the players woud've worked with what they got, as a team, overcome the situation, and move along without any negativity or drama ... everyone coming out better team players in the end.

 

Fix'd it for ya. No need to thank me, I just removed some of the unrealistic b/s that never actually happens and is constantly spewed by those in defense of that community destroying tool to try and sway others into believing its a good thing - then replaced it with some truth.

 

People can still improve themselves with a personal meter, which by the sounds of it, thats what we're getting. GG.

Edited January 16, 2012 by MasterKayote

[Reecelol]

Fix'd it for ya. No need to thank me, I just removed some of the unrealistic b/s that never actually happens and is constantly spewed by those in defense of that community destroying tool to try and sway others into believing its a good thing - then replaced it with some truth.

 

People can still improve themselves with a personal meter, which by the sounds of it, thats what we're getting. GG.

 

youre under the assumption that people will take their personal meters as a means of personal improvement. i think everyone is all too aware that these types of games are filled with people who just want to be dragged along through content/gear.

 

you expect alot of people on the internet.

[ViskarNogame]

Good theory.

 

Here' show it ACTUALLY pans out.

 

The mercenary who enjoys his class because he can quickly switch from DPS to a heal Cylinder to save the group, just got mocked endlessly by a group for his DPS. When he said "I wasn't aware of my spec." or offered his reason we (I say we, because I do it too) didn't care and just kept mocking it.

 

Eventually he either does A) And leave because we're idiots. B) Doesn't care anymore because no one will -tell- him what he's doing wrong.

 

Damage meters aren't a good thing - Once they were put into Rift, 3 of peoples favorite hybrid classes then got insanely nerfed. No one knew who was doing what percentage of DPS but everything was dying. but now ALL OF A SUDDEN everyone HAD to have those specs. "heh, you're a Riftstalker? ****." Yea, why? The raid before had two of those and downed everything just fine.

 

If you're a true min-maxer, you know the math needed to truly come up with your maximum DPS. You want damage meters so you can be number one and feel a throbbing in your pants the entireity of the dungeon.

[tripballs]

People who are against damage meters are the scrubs and the slackers, because the damage meter would reveal just how bad and useless they are.

[ViskarNogame]

youre under the assumption that people will take their personal meters as a means of personal improvement. i think everyone is all too aware that these types of games are filled with people who just want to be dragged along through content/gear.

 

you expect alot of people on the internet.

 

No, he expects almost -nothing- of the people of the internet. What he said is 100% true. People wouldn't offer to "help" and wouldn't be nice about it. They'd yell at him every wipe, or almost wipe, because "We woulda had it if you had brought higher DPS!"

[Reecelol]

No, he expects almost -nothing- of the people of the internet. What he said is 100% true. People wouldn't offer to "help" and wouldn't be nice about it. They'd yell at him every wipe, or almost wipe, because "We woulda had it if you had brought higher DPS!"

 

well, if you hadnt brought horrible dps then you may have in fact killed said boss and not wiped.

 

 

but youll never know who isnt bringing it

[Kabjat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabjat

 

We don't care about end game.

 

Think on this for a moment.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackfriar

 

Game ends at 50 for you, then. Think on that.

 

 

 

(Discussion moved here. Answering here because other thread was closed before I got a chance to reply.)

 

To Blackfriar: Again, with the assumptions that all players MUST have your playstyle. Just, NO. The game does NOT end at 50 for me. There are other aspects of the game than just raiding. I have many alts that I jump back and forth between. It's how I roll. It will take me a VERY long time to get all of them to 50. You are presumptuous, like all elitists.\

 

Your attempt to be clever with using my words does not make you look clever. It makes you look arrogant and close minded.

 

I have said many times before, I support combat logs for raiders and end game content. I believe these tools are necessary for the players that desire that level of play and who wish to min/max and to coordinate the very best raid group they can.

 

I, unlike a lot of elitists I have seen here, am happy for others to play the game as they wish. You however, have already decided that those like ME have no business being here just by virtue of your answer to me.

[Azsalyn]

Damage meters are a great tool to have, and very important in raiding and endgame content in order to help the raid leaders weed out weak links that are holding back the raid. Because if your DPS sucks, you're not just holding yourself back, you're holding back everyone else in the raid too. Also, some bosses have enrage timers, which means low dps can lead to a wipe. Outside of raiding, I'd agree it doesn't matter, but to progress in end game content requires a certain degree of elitism (or being carried by people who do most of the work for you, in which case, have you really EARNED the epic gear you want to wear?).

 

I'm not saying every player in the game has to be 1 specific spec and focus on a rigid rotation and build, but you do need to demonstrate a certain mastery of your class by the time you reach the max level or you're just going to hold others back, and not many people really want to be that guy (or group with that guy, for that matter). Sure it's a little cold and impersonal to reduce people to numbers based on their performance, but that's how it has to work to do well in pugs when you don't know the people. If you don't want to be held to a standard for your class, play with friends or focus on another aspect of the game, because the internet (myself included) WILL judge you if you only pull 10% of the overall damage.

[Frostvein]

Good theory.

 

If you're a true min-maxer, you know the math needed to truly come up with your maximum DPS. You want damage meters so you can be number one and feel a throbbing in your pants the entireity of the dungeon.

 

How about I like to do the most possible damage at all times to properly contribute to my group? Or to make sure I am pulling my own weight? Or to make sure that I didn't take any unnecessary damage? Or to check my uptime on my DoTs? Or to see if I broke any CC? Or to see who needed the most/least healing? Or to check my largest source of damage?

 

Stop trying to generalize everyone's use of meters by incorrectly assuming everyone will use them in a harmful manner.

[JeszeJames]

It's funny how a lot of ppl say "if u want insert anything useful or fun for some people here go back to WOW", Damage meters, addons, macros, arenas, etc. are all useful, and it makes the game more competitive, which is good. If all you want is to have fun doing whatever I want, then you can play the game in a casual mode and have your fun, and no1 will ***** about it. If you want to go competitive, you might want tools that help you optimize ur damage, like meters, addons and macros, I dont get why ppl hate them so much... if you dont like em dont use em and play casual, thats it.

 

Bump for meters, they help a lot regarding optimization and even balancing the game. At least give out the required information so some nice players can make the addons for the community. I know you might not do em but, as Blizzard did, you can give out the info the players need to make their addons, Im sure theres ppl out there that would do em.

[Jett-Rinn]

Squeak...

 

Squeak all you like; it is DOA due to the abominable way the pro meter crowd behaved over the issue......in the future if you want something implemented it isn't a good idea to prove that every bad thing the opposition said about you is true.

 

 

 

Here is an example of what I'm talking about

 

 

People who are against damage meters are the scrubs and the slackers, because the damage meter would reveal just how bad and useless they are.

 

 

Don't forget to thank him for representing the hard-cores

Edited February 16, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[souloferdrick]

Mods are for the weak. Case closed.

[Joker_sob]

:)lol

[Sizzurps]

It's funny how a lot of ppl say "if u want insert anything useful or fun for some people here go back to WOW", Damage meters, addons, macros, arenas, etc. are all useful, and it makes the game more competitive, which is good. If all you want is to have fun doing whatever I want, then you can play the game in a casual mode and have your fun, and no1 will ***** about it. If you want to go competitive, you might want tools that help you optimize ur damage, like meters, addons and macros, I dont get why ppl hate them so much... if you dont like em dont use em and play casual, thats it.

 

Bump for meters, they help a lot regarding optimization and even balancing the game. At least give out the required information so some nice players can make the addons for the community. I know you might not do em but, as Blizzard did, you can give out the info the players need to make their addons, Im sure theres ppl out there that would do em.

 

"if u want functionality go back to WOW"

[Lord_Itharius]

I'm actually quitting in major part because of no combat parsing.

 

There's no way to tell exactly how much my new pieces of gear contribute to my overall dps, making gear progression seem pointless and unrewarding. In WoW, I'd feel good about a gear upgrade because A) It's shiny and purple, which doesn't matter in SWTOR because EVERYTHING is shiny and purple, or B) It improves my dps, which I can't freakin tell because there's no COMBAT PARSING. Plus, not having combat parsing makes certain encounters with enrage timers frustrating, as you don't know who in your group is holding you back.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

I'm actually quitting in major part because of no combat parsing.

 

There's no way to tell exactly how much my new pieces of gear contribute to my overall dps, making gear progression seem pointless and unrewarding. In WoW, I'd feel good about a gear upgrade because A) It's shiny and purple, which doesn't matter in SWTOR because EVERYTHING is shiny and purple, or B) It improves my dps, which I can't freakin tell because there's no COMBAT PARSING. Plus, not having combat parsing makes certain encounters with enrage timers frustrating, as you don't know who in your group is holding you back.

 

That's so weird because your quiting the game IN PART of no combat parsing. Where I would quit solely based on ANY combat parsing. Weird huh? They have no plans to input this now or the near future so I ask that you sit tight because this is going be a bumpy ride.

[Lord_Itharius]

That's so weird because your quiting the game IN PART of no combat parsing. Where I would quit solely based on ANY combat parsing. Weird huh? They have no plans to input this now or the near future so I ask that you sit tight because this is going be a bumpy ride.

 

That's sad, dude. You really care that much about being exposed as a baddy that you'd quit if other people could see your contribution to the group?

[kevlarto]

To the OP

 

NO

 

I agree, player skill or the old line, learn to play, i know how to manage my dps and what rotations work better than others, I want to see the game not stare at a meter on my screen and stand in the fire.. but I buy a game to play it not have it played for me..

My skill as a player will always be better than a silly meter, I have proved it over and over again..