Pre-made BS in Regs needs to be fixed

[Warforever]

BW needs to do the following:

1. Create a window for pvp where you have an option to PICK whether you want to do 4v4 or 8v8 for regs and ranked.

2. Create a tab on the character sheet where you can not only store your pvp gear but quickly swap between the two instead of taking up space in your inventory.

3. Bring back 8v8 ranked.

4. Gives us more WZs. Great, we're getting one in Feb but the PvP community has been crapped on for way too long.

5. Create a massive WZ like in WoW where you need to get on your mount to get to an objective.

6. Fix the UI. I have submitted bug report after bug report about getting into a wz and my UI for that warzone being f'ed up! For instance, it will show me on the enemy team for an arena or showing the enemy team has scored in huttball when its really my team that has scored.

7. Last but not least...FIX PVP FFS!!!! AND GIVE US SOME LOVE!! One new warzone after two years is an f'ing joke and a smack to the face.

[deejak]

The problem isn't match making. It isn't premades. The problem is boatloads of players not understanding how to pvp. These ****** pug teams occur more than not from pve'rs coming in to get their companion missions or instant 60s that think because they are 65 they can now pvp.

 

Pvers will say they know their rotation and hence their getting face rolled is because a class is OP. Knowing your rotation is not the key to pvp. It is understanding what the other player you're face tanking is doing to you and how to properly mitigate. But of course, if you drop force lightning as a deception assassin (like i had in an arena yesterday), you're going to suck irregardless.

 

Pugs are typically terrible at their class in warzones. Just because you can parse 5k dps on a dummy and survive hardmode operations doesn't make you good at pvp. No matter what bioware does will not make you any better. In pugs, even when the other team has tank/healer/2x dps comp, you still should be able to up reasonable numbers. You might not be able to take objectives, but there has been many times i have been in premades and the pug team was more capable at objectives than us. Killing the other team quickly will allow you to take more objectives more often than sneaking in a cap. And sometimes, you just wont be able to kill quick enough. It happens.

 

When going into pugs, you need to understand which players are going to do well and which players your class can compliment. There is no reason why if you are MM sniper you can't set your focus target to a AP PT teammate and you two just mow down anyone he decides to target. You don't need ts for that. You don't need a premade for that.

 

The easiest fix imo to terrible pvp is to make 65 tiered via valor. Make it an option. When I queue, I should be able to choose 70+ valor as a pug/premade. Make <70 valor solo queue only.

Edited January 17, 2016 by deejak

[NotAnyOldName]

As someone who regularly q's solo regs, just deal with it. If you go against a team that is roflstomping yours and you aren't able to have any fun just leave and try get another WZ. That said many times I have beaten premades with complete pug teams, having a premade doesn't necessarily equate to having good players.

[Ruhun]

As someone who regularly q's solo regs, just deal with it. If you go against a team that is roflstomping yours and you aren't able to have any fun just leave and try get another WZ. That said many times I have beaten premades with complete pug teams, having a premade doesn't necessarily equate to having good players.

 

That's also true, and a lot of my more satisfying wins has been against Pub (Sage healer heavy) premades.

It's pretty hilarious when we three cap these groups, sometimes they quit en masse.

[aristrokratie]

That's also true, and a lot of my more satisfying wins has been against Pub (Sage healer heavy) premades.

It's pretty hilarious when we three cap these groups, sometimes they quit en masse.

 

But then there's the flipside of the coin.

Those teams usually then logg on op fotm ACs and enjoy roflstomping you. On my server there's not that many people qing so as long as the premade is there you'll face it in EVERY warzone.

[Ruhun]

But then there's the flipside of the coin.

Those teams usually then logg on op fotm ACs and enjoy roflstomping you. On my server there's not that many people qing so as long as the premade is there you'll face it in EVERY warzone.

 

Don't get me wrong, they roflstomp 99% of the matches, but that 1% is why I wake up in the morning.

[dead-cat]

The only realistic consideration that would oppose this theme is extended queue times- particularly on lesser populated servers. This is easily remedied as server transfers are still very cheap.

 

Rift attempted this- but failed. Once a separate queue was established, premades simply vanished- the general consensus was "well, they're just looking to roll unorganized groups of pugs rather than seek competition."

 

Sure, its fun to group with friends, guildmembers or associates- but to diminish the potential for those who would rather solo-queue to have an even playing field isn't working to the benefit of the overall pvp environment.

This is exactly why you can sit for hours in the team ranked queue without any pops outside organized events. ppl who "want to play with friends" should be on their own queue to play against other "ppl who want to play with friends". but if that would happen, like you said, the group queue would be just as dead as TR is right now, because "want to play with friends" is just the pretext. in reality they are looking for easy wins, facilitated by the lack of matchmaking, again under the excuse of "oooh queue times would be soooooo long".

yet there is some sort of solution: see a premade - quit the warzone. if 80-90% would do that, then the QQ on this forum would be epic and BW would have 2 choices: deal with the problem or shelve pvp completely. as far as i am concerned, i'm fine with either.

[Sevarn]

Beating premades in a pug is one of the most fun things you can do in this game. I love going up against premades. Sure sometimes you get a useless team and just get stomped for the entire match but that's just PvP for you.

 

The only issue I have with premades atm is sorc healers. They're being stacked and given their current God mode status, this isn't fun to play against and on certain maps, its completely unbeatable.

[betaku]

I love playing vs premade, it's so funny Edited January 18, 2016 by betaku
edit

[Ruhun]

I agree with Sevarn and dead-cat.

 

Once you get the upper hand with your rag tag Pug group a lot of premade groups cry hacks or leave the game.

It's like they forget that predation exists, but I don't blame them since all they run are PTs, Jugs, and Sorcs.

 

These people refuse to queue ranked against us (my occasional premade), even going as far as saying we're running FOTM classes.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Ruhun

[Flintfire]

Actually, premades save regs.

 

TBH, the quality of the average player in regs has gone down considerably since launch. Back in the day in most situations you could count on a pug to at least call incs, do average numbers in their role (tank/heal/dps) and play objectives moderately well.

 

Nowadays, in most situations if you haven't seen a player before you have to assume they are bad. Hell, I have had times in my premades where everyone in my group does over 2 million damage each, has highest objectives, and we win, but the rest of the team together could barely pull 1 million damage combined and were on the bottom of the charts in all aspects.

 

I really wish I was wrong, but in all honesty between insta-60s and an influx of a new kind of player from Christmas combined with The Force Awakens hype, you have a much... different type of player running around now. I want to go in and not be dragged down by 7 crappy people, so I bring a premade to even the odds. Sue me.

[DomiSotto]

Out of pure curiosity, will it make you feel better or worse to be three capped or 6:0’d by a pug?

 

It’s no delight to have a team that is completely outmatched, but PvP is PvP, and all bets are off.

 

In all but the worst case scenarios, the losing team manages to hold on to one node. You can normally predict that worst case outcome and just bail right after a quick look at the team.

 

Two or more with less than 1.7K expertise? Why gamble that the Empire is also fielding players incapable of concluding that one needs to put on armor and equip weapons before entering the battle? I am okay with womanfully taking a tragically heroic death at the hands of the almighty Empire, but I am not interested in pointless martyrdom and indulging those who can’t care less on my own team. I came to appreciate having toons in all brackets, both sides, on two servers.

 

In all other cases, the humiliating loss is on you. I have seen it when a team that is perfectly well geared and has a perfectly fine class distribution just doesn’t do well. Even when the numbers are matching very closely. What can you do but play on, and hope to get a bit better at being in the right place at the right time and working together….

[Ruhun]

The only time a Pug team has three capped mine is when our team has absolutely no healers, plus our DPS can't DPS.

 

I've been in games where I pull 2 mil and the rest of my team barely has anything over 500k, while our opponents all have great DPS/HPS.

 

They weren't premade, I was just unlucky.

[DomiSotto]

Had a game exactly like that yesterday. DPS matched, in that 1-1.5K nothing special range. Both sides had one healer, with the same sorc/sage min standard 2 mln heals. The score-board looked symmetrical. We were had. Fluff damage vs burst? We could not focus a dead womp rat if it had 10m diameter red target on it and lay very still? Not sure. Shrugged it off, and moved on to the next zone. Edited January 18, 2016 by DomiSotto

[Skuter]

I'm going to chime in on this one just to say. A fair amount of time. Fighting a premade can sometimes can make winning the match easier. With Premades a lot of time you will get 4 PVP'er that only care of getting the big numbers. Trying to do the most dmg, to impress their friends, but they completely ignore the match objectives. I cant tell you how many times, even as a non stelther Iv gone and caped a node. With two or three people focusing on trying to kill some toon. The biggest obstacle to winning at PVP is tunnel vision. You get focused on trying to kill someone and you forget about that Node. Premades hate guarding Nodes.

 

To have fun in SWTOR PvP. Don't worry about Pre-Mades. Learn your class. Make friends. Learn tactics. Take the time to get your gear upgraded. Don't try and guard a Node in PVE Gear. Draw the premades away from the objectives, and keep them busy. If you see a pug that is really sucking. Try and give them some constructive suggestions. Don't Rage at them. No one learns from being screamed at. Most importantly don't expect to win every game.

[skarvika]

We need a proper matchmaking system is what we need. Groups fight other groups. Solos fight other solos. Under 65s fight other under 65s. Problem solved. Edited January 18, 2016 by skarvika

[skarvika]

Double post Edited January 18, 2016 by skarvika

[DomiSotto]

I Premades hate guarding Nodes. .

 

Heh, not the premades I've met. Those will have 1 stealth on the off-node, and the second one on call to support the off-node. They will quickly bring the healer and the tank over as well against your main push and never over-rotate.

 

They will also make a full and gratuitous use of Predation. I see them running a double Mara for a melee Death Squad unit that predates continuously moving between the off-nodes. Or they will use it off-spawn so that their Vasiliy and Zaitsev can take high places first and wait for your pug to leisurely arrive at the Battle of Stalingrad on the wrong side.

 

Ah, those things the premades do to us, pugs....

Edited January 18, 2016 by DomiSotto

[foxmob]

I really wish I was wrong, but in all honesty between insta-60s and an influx of a new kind of player from Christmas combined with The Force Awakens hype, you have a much... different type of player running around now. I want to go in and not be dragged down by 7 crappy people, so I bring a premade to even the odds. Sue me.

 

I actually think power creep is more to do with it than player quality. the only noticeable shifts in player quality, imo, are the rare instances when groups of players migrate to different servers. this crushed JC when paid transfers were permitted. but after the elimination of ranked 8's, players trickled back. and even before then, things did stabilize. I would say the biggest change in every format has been the disparity between choosing the "right action" and the "wrong one." I haven't seen ppl getting "punished' for doing the 'wrong thing" this badly since launch when 50s were wearing exp gear and wrecking sub 50s in greens and relics/adrenals were activated. basically, you either have the right ability off cd or you get obliterated. ppl aren't really any dumber. you could argue that there are fewer ppl and, thus, the premades are more common...but other than like JC pub when everyone literally left the server, I don't see it as ppl getting any worse. I just see the "punishment" for being bad is much "harsher."

[Evanouss]

Start a movement...see a premade as a solo queing pug, bounce, tell your team to bounce and don't reque. That's the only way you will get the attention of the devs to make a change in either making a solo que, or, better match making for regs. I'm not against premades but clearly there are several types of premades, unfortunatly the tank tank healer healer 4 dps que syncers give all premades a bad name.

[patricklee]

Start a movement...see a premade as a solo queing pug, bounce, tell your team to bounce and don't reque. That's the only way you will get the attention of the devs to make a change in either making a solo que, or, better match making for regs. I'm not against premades but clearly there are several types of premades, unfortunatly the tank tank healer healer 4 dps que syncers give all premades a bad name.

 

The problem of this resolution has many faces.

 

If this were to occur on a consistent basis, many would develop the notion that "lets group up for a series of auto-wins & finish our weekly with little to no actual pvping involved."

 

Plus, it would drastically increase the chance of queuing and being placed in a match already underway with the teams being uneven- and I doubt if any of us like that any more than the frequency with which it occurs now.

 

 

The simplest solution is a slight matchmaking tweak. If a premade enters a wz queue, they don't get placed until another equal-sized premade is queued, and they are placed on opposite teams. This shouldn't have any noticeable adverse effect on queue times, it encourages more balanced teams, and players can still have the option of grouping with friends or queuing solo.

[Evanouss]

sorry but wrong. The premades will have to wait longer...This is the age old argument. This is why they do not want a solo que. There is no way around it. Either most solo quers don't care or don't want to be bothered with taking a stand against non solo ques. Hence, nothing will change...The powers that be will only change somehting if:

 

A- it's broken to a degree of unplayability.

B-It effects their bottom line financially. (and you can't blame them for this one, to run a game you need money)

C-There is a large outcry from the community at large. (see answer B)

 

I'm sure the pvp guild/premade community would love to go against nothing but other premades all day long ( i laughed as I typed this) because they all want a challenge and not EZ wins or to Roflstomp solo bads.

 

So yeah, if ques could some how stay the same time for solo and premade ques I'm sure the premade community would have 0 problem with adding a solo que, and if not...then yeah, they just want to roflstomp solo que bads for meaning less ez wins and comms.

Edited January 19, 2016 by Evanouss

[ALaggyGrunt]

What's really bad is when you have a ranked premade on one team and a bunch of newbies on the other.

 

Why? Premades farm the newbies, and the newbies don't learn anything except how to die, or that the game is bad. Put them against other newbies, and they'll be able to work out some of the cross-play between all the abilities, the footwork, and at least some of the rest of the stuff they need to know to fight without one-misstep-instaded.

 

tl;dr everything ranked.

[Lundorff]

Just quit the moment you are getting stomped. Like yesterday, in lowbies, the Scare Bears on TRE ran with at least 3 players (Tank + Heal + ??) and the thing becomes unplayable to rest of us. I mean a tank guarding a sorc healer, and most of my team doesn't even know how to focus a target? Pointless match.

 

Equally pointless was the 600 - 0 win on our team a few matches later. No premade but we have 2 healers and relatively competent people, and so it also becomes a stomp. Meh. So boring.

 

1 vs. 1 queue please!

[Neoforcer]

Bioware - you need to do something about pre-made groups in regular PvP and make the queue separate solo play and group play. I am really considering quitting this game because of this issue. There are other MMOs that do pvp much better for many reasons. In SWToR, I log in to do my pvp daily quest and solo queue against an x2 4man= 8 man Pre-made who are all mic'd in Teamspeak. It is impossible to have fun in this scenario. It is total BS. Waste of time and it makes one very angry. Bad enough no new operations - how many times can we run the new story? A lot of us pvp solo. You have to fix this, you have queueing rules for flashpoints and groupfinder operations and for ranked pvp - something must be done for regular pvp matches too; you must fix this, the average new player experience in a warzone is that pvp in this game is a joke. Is that what you want?

 

No first pugs would wait 1 and a half hrs for que pops if you did this. MY vote is remove pugs from PVP all together until they pass a course that is 2 days in length.

 

MMO pvp I multiplayer not solo it team play and a lot of pug think this is a Solo game, that they can win by hitting tanks while healers free cast. You want to fix pvp. Make a arena area with tank healer dps NPC that do little damage but heal for lots. People most learn basic war zone tactics before there allowed to que. Put in a mentor system for us premade groups that we can go in and teach pugs how to do things the right way. They must complete this 2 day course on team play what each mark means and why things are marked. Make this arena with no pvp flag the NPC are almost got mode with system messages with walls of text. FOCUS THE HEALERS ON THERE SCREEN In BIG red text as they do this after say 2 min. Then have it say after healer now dead and disable. Wall of text ATTACK THE DPS OR Tanks NEXT...

 

New Wall of text HEALER RESPAWN KILL THE HEALER AGAIN. See were i going with this...

 

The PUG premade would not matter as people would learn from vets pvpers on what to do the they could graduate to actual ques also put in text that give proper rotation. Allow them to ask question from the vets pvpers make it random vet pvp pug grouep and reward thes groups in some way for actually trying to make pvp better for all have more then one group of vets from different pvp guilds so we don't have trolls trying to miss lead people

 

So we can teach pug solo players to work and communicate to other team members before they get into reg quest. Then guess what would happen then premade would not matter and we pvpers would have epic pvp battles with a lot of fun look fixed premades as we just made them not relevant any more. Other then friend queing together

Edited January 19, 2016 by Neoforcer