Malachi_Bane Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Err....I don't believe the word "promise" was ever used. As with all announcements, per terms and agreements and all that fun stuff: subject to change. It was intended to be permanent and now it's not. That being said, I would like the packs permanent as intended as well. But the "you promised/said" argument is a fallacy. It's one thing to say "Healing is buffed by 3.5%, but it's still on PTS, so it's still subject to change!" and confidently stating one thing, then backing up on it 2 months later. They did the same thing regarding NiM gear dev diary, at least admitting a typo (my personal opinion: if they made such a claim and let it sit for months, they should have stuck with it, avoiding bad publicity. but we're on another subject here). This time, they first take the packs off CM with no advance warning it was going to happen at all, keep silent for several days, then step out and comfort the naysayers by saying the packs will be available later, only to finally do a full 180 and announce they're being pulled off indefinitely until some big holiday down the road. This is, plain and simple, disrespectful to their players / customers, who at least deserve to know how the system works before making purchases. You make a claim (regarding packs! not the future content that takes time to develop, but packs, which are already in the game and can be put back at any time) - you should stick with it instead of backpedaling so soon. If they found that the packs didn't sell so well - tweak prices, drop rates, or hell - even go back to the old model of having 5 different packs from the shipment available at the same time. Going back on their word like that simply leaves them in a bad position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trobon Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) This was a stupid move. Of course you are free to do what you want, but in the month of November I had spent a few hundred dollars on cartel coins and since the packs were removed I haven't spent a dollar outside of my subscription. I won't be buying mass quantities of these like you are hoping. I may buy a couple during the week (although I'm just as likely to ignore them in protest) but I buy things as I decide I have money to spend, not based on whatever arbitrary dates you decide I'm allowed to spend it. So instead of making a good chunk of money off of me and others like me you are shooting yourself in the foot. Just another of the many idiotic changes that you have made in order to appease some invisible dollar line. If you are making more money from this choice then I guess I'm wrong, but I can tell you for sure that you are not making more from me. This also means that since I don't have a reliable way to get decorations I won't be buying any more strongholds or expansions, some of which I also spent CC on. So again, I can only assume that you don't want or need my money. Edited January 8, 2016 by Trobon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Err....I don't believe the word "promise" was ever used. As with all announcements, per terms and agreements and all that fun stuff: subject to change. It was intended to be permanent and now it's not. That being said, I would like the packs permanent as intended as well. But the "you promised/said" argument is a fallacy. At some point, we need to just...well... "We will be introducing new Grand Packs that are permanently available on the market are updated every time we introduce a new item. These packs will change how items are available which are introduced and embargoed from the Cartel Market, including both pack and direct sale items." "For any category that does not have enough items to be split into Bronze Silver and Gold packs, we will be creating permanent Grand Packs. These packs, such as the Grand Pets Pack, contain only the item type the pack itself mentions. We have found these to be an enjoyable addition to the Market, so we are expanding the range on them!" "We will be offering permanent Grand Packs for the following items: Weapons Crystals Galactic Starfighter Emotes Pets Companion Customizations Titles Dyes Toys" We're these "promises"? It's hair splitting to say they were not even though that word, "promise", wasn't used. They reneged, and we know that's their right, but we really need to just stop with all the needless hairsplitting. This is a clear and unequivocal renege. I, for one, prefer this renege. I used to buy packs every release, but stopped cold with BSG - didn't seem to have same value/buck. I suspect many others did too, which is why they're reversing. But for those who liked the BSG and used the statements above to base purchasing decisions, it smarts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souliena Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 That is very disappointing to me. I was writing with the custumer support about this topic but didn't get a reall answer if it was wanted or a bug that the packs weren't in cartel market the last time. So why they promise that with the new system the packs will be always in cartel market and then they totally change this without saying anything until we ask for that. Then PLEASE bring back that there are different packs at the same time. I don't want to buy just the newest pack. I like it to open different packs or the option to buy decoration packs for getting many different decorations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrienBear Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Good question! In talking with the team, they have been making quite a few changes to the Cartel Market and packs since 4.0 launched. There are even more changes coming when the new pack launches in February. As a part of those changes, the decision was made that BSG packs will now be consistent with the shipment packs in that they will be embargoed after a period of time. We do realize this change may be sudden but it is all a part of the evolving nature of the changes the team has been making to the Cartel Market. I hope that clears up any confusion. -eric Eric Thank you for the response. I'm one person, I get it. But this, frankly, sucks. I was "back" to the game for about a week when you pulled them off originally. I bought a LOT of the crystal packs because I wanted more crystals. I didn't even care they were dupes. I just wanted MORE. I've only bought about 10-15 of the cartel packs. I'm pretty sure my spending has relatively flattened out since the BSG packs have left... Please let your team know that there are a few of us that are kind of disappointed by this change. I hadn't started to get into "costume" parts because at first I wasn't going to play dress up, but after the BSG packs left, I realized that I wish I had grabbed some. I'm debating not buying anything at all next week (which will be aided by the fact that I'll be out of town for part of it anyway.) Thank you for the response - still, I'm very disappointed that this decision was made. Business is business, however, and I understand the want to maximize profit in whatever way you can. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZakiBasara Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Good question! In talking with the team, they have been making quite a few changes to the Cartel Market and packs since 4.0 launched. There are even more changes coming when the new pack launches in February. As a part of those changes, the decision was made that BSG packs will now be consistent with the shipment packs in that they will be embargoed after a period of time. We do realize this change may be sudden but it is all a part of the evolving nature of the changes the team has been making to the Cartel Market. I hope that clears up any confusion. -eric This does NOT clear up confusion because you didn't say anything! You talked in a circle about announcing a decision because a decision was made and making a change because you're making changes. How does that explain a complete reversal of what you advertised with the launch of 4.0? It would clear up confusion if you said: 1. No one bought the packs when available all the time, so therefore it seemed best to give items more of a "limited" feel by making them actually limited. 2. Too many people were buying packs (this I would find hard to believe, but it is possible?) and we decided to limit the availability for (fill in the blank with the team's reason) reason. 3. We found the system didn't work as we intended and people complained about the BSG packs being too available. Something... along those lines... THAT would be an explanation. "Because the team decided" isn't an explanation... we know they decided that because you announced it. You wouldn't be announcing it if they hadn't decided it... so it really isn't any explanation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belegnole Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Considering that every time they make a change it gives me less reason to buy anything. I am mighty curious as to what these new packs will be in February. I would think that a good marketing team would have had Eric give us something positive to offset the negative of this announcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souliena Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 And there is something else to say... The new packs are just **** with only "2 items". Just one item and one companion-present. For the same price like the old packs. Thats why I prefer the packs, where I can decide what I'm interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Considering that every time they make a change it gives me less reason to buy anything. I am mighty curious as to what these new packs will be in February. I would think that a good marketing team would have had Eric give us something positive to offset the negative of this announcement. I think the new packs he's referencing are the ones that will be a version similar to the old packs the devs mentioned two or three months back. The new packs basically screwed players with the item count from hyper-crates being reduced almost by half compared to the older 24 pack hyper-crates. That is also why they increased the pack drop to 30 from 24, to sort of trick people into thinking they were getting more. Because the players aren't as dumb as the devs think, the devs lost a lot of potential money through the cartel market. Those thinly veiled greedy changes that screwed over players didn't sit too well, so they started buying a lot less. The devs realized they screwed up, but are still greedy, so as a way to try an recapture those the sales, they are increasing the item count per pack up to about 3/4th's of what it was in the 24-pack hyper-crates. Edited January 8, 2016 by Holocron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xo-Lara Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 While I suppose I understand the whole subject to change issue, I feel like this habit of stating something then turning around shortly and reversing it feels like the absolute opposite of good faith gestures. After all, the player can't turn right around and return things to get their money back, like the slot machines, or necessarily get what they are after before the changes take effect. I believe much disappointment stems from the fact that it feels like you can't trust any announcement made, not that I blame Eric who is just the messenger, and that anything announced, especially anything that sounds appealing, should be mostly ignored because it will be shortly overturned, nerfed, or bugged. I know making money is important, I do, but torpedoing consumer trust is not a good way to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saregon Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Good question! In talking with the team, they have been making quite a few changes to the Cartel Market and packs since 4.0 launched. There are even more changes coming when the new pack launches in February. As a part of those changes, the decision was made that BSG packs will now be consistent with the shipment packs in that they will be embargoed after a period of time. We do realize this change may be sudden but it is all a part of the evolving nature of the changes the team has been making to the Cartel Market. I hope that clears up any confusion. -eric So, what exactly is the definition of the word "permanent" then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degan Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 ... Forget it, it's not even worth the effort to type anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MishaCantu Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 My spending has decreased since the BSG packs went off the market. I am a returning player that got into strongholds and bought a bunch of the decoration ones. I have bought very few of the new packs, nothing actually in the last couple of weeks. Don't want the Nexu, already have the Akk dog which is a pain to level influence due to not having the delicacies on the Odessen vendor like all the others. Now, if Cartel Certificates were a thing again, I might reconsider, but I have enough blasters, rifles, etc. to last a lifetime as well as a bunch of gear I will never use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makillda Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Good question! In talking with the team, they have been making quite a few changes to the Cartel Market and packs since 4.0 launched. There are even more changes coming when the new pack launches in February. As a part of those changes, the decision was made that BSG packs will now be consistent with the shipment packs in that they will be embargoed after a period of time. We do realize this change may be sudden but it is all a part of the evolving nature of the changes the team has been making to the Cartel Market. I hope that clears up any confusion. -eric It clears up nothing. For the record, I have a good idea why they are being removed: revenues went down due to people buying those in smaller numbers than they were buying the regular RNG packs to get the "cool stuff." One of the only things to come to the CM that wasn't such an "eff-you" to the players and now they are being taken away. Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinook_Phi Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I have never seen a game work so hard to tick off its base and step on its own feet. Just when I think Ive seen it all from TOR, another fumble. In spite of what the somewhat new EA CEO stated about EA turning a new leaf, nothing has changes, its the same old EA and TOR that its always been. Its about treating gamers like five year olds and getting as much money as is humanely possible from those five year olds. So, yeah, this is final "total lack of integrity" straw, so Ive taken screenshots of what was originally promised, the statement made by the somewhat new EA CEO, posts of this latest breach of integrity and will have my very successful gaming friend push all this out to her press contacts. Enough is enough. And while Im at it, I'll go ahead and send a person letter with the same info to EA's CEO because I have just GOT TO HEAR fresh off of the massive success of the film, pulling a stunt like this is good for business. It's time they cleaned house at Bioware Austin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarbuch Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 So, what exactly is the definition of the word "permanent" then? Permanent = temporary, only available when we deem that BW/EA needs a quick influx of money. It is the way of the world, greed and envy rules the free market, corporate greed and players envy of needing to have what others have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selethar Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Conclusion: Never EVER trust a word you folks say Mr. Eric. Will comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Good question! In talking with the team, they have been making quite a few changes to the Cartel Market and packs since 4.0 launched. There are even more changes coming when the new pack launches in February. As a part of those changes, the decision was made that BSG packs will now be consistent with the shipment packs in that they will be embargoed after a period of time. We do realize this change may be sudden but it is all a part of the evolving nature of the changes the team has been making to the Cartel Market. I hope that clears up any confusion. -eric Oh ffs Eric, be truthful for once in your life. They made this change because the BSG packs ate too much into the sales of their "normal" packs because you guys are trying to minimize what you give for maximum $$ gain on your part and the BSG packs ruined this. And I called it, not that it took any friggin brainpower to see...they'd "return" but in a limited/upped in price way. The price may or may not go up but you are still making them rare instead of full-time like you said. All because you want to cheapen out on what the "normal" packs give. We're not stupid Eric. So, again, be honest with us for once. lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrienBear Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Oh ffs Eric, be truthful for once in your life. They made this change because the BSG packs ate too much into the sales of their "normal" packs because you guys are trying to minimize what you give for maximum $$ gain on your part and the BSG packs ruined this. And I called it, not that it took any friggin brainpower to see...they'd "return" but in a limited/upped in price way. The price may or may not go up but you are still making them rare instead of full-time like you said. All because you want to cheapen out on what the "normal" packs give. We're not stupid Eric. So, again, be honest with us for once. lmao. Well let's be real - He can't be honest with this (IF this is the reason - I agree with you though) for 2 reasons - #1 - Bioware would throw an absolute shhhh fit which would lead to #2 - Eric being fired. So he's not going to jeopardize his own *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 The true focus of the game returns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staavis_SC Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Bioware goes back on their word...again. No surprise here. Nothing to see, move along move along. Actually, when Bioware starts KEEPING their word, I may be so shocked as to suffer a minor coronary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuffmeister Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Good question! In talking with the team, they have been making quite a few changes to the Cartel Market and packs since 4.0 launched. There are even more changes coming when the new pack launches in February. As a part of those changes, the decision was made that BSG packs will now be consistent with the shipment packs in that they will be embargoed after a period of time. We do realize this change may be sudden but it is all a part of the evolving nature of the changes the team has been making to the Cartel Market. I hope that clears up any confusion. -eric So the reason they gave you for back flipping on "permanent additions to the cartel market" was basically "Purple Monkey Dishwasher"? Or possibly by the time the excuse filtered down to you from above you could have sworn that it was indeed "Purple Monkey Dishwasher". Thank you for clearing up any confusion I had on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 In my opinion they should stop with the cartel packs. What they should do is let us buy the items we want directly from the Cartel Market, like we're able to do with the Exterminator gear. Personally, i'd be willing to pay a higher price for specific items if i could choose what i wanted to buy. I'm tired of buying several packs, hoping to get a specific armor, but never getting it. This, absolutely this. Or, for about a week after a new pack release, they should sell the individual pack items; ONLY for a week after a new pack release, for a higher CC price. Anyone who missed it would still have to buy the packs, and my guess is that not everyone would get what they want in that first week, so BW:A shouldn't lose too much, if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundown Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 This is a huge disappointment, to put it mildly. I loved the BSG- and crystal-packs for being a good compromise between directly purchasing what I desire and the "thrill" of RNG. I doubt I will ever buy a pack of the new breed, they simply don't offer anything worth the money to me comparing cost/revenue... well, no additional CC to be had from me then. The temporary nature just feels like another rip-off to me, I will not support that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brayla_Sana Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 What happened to the packs being permanent? Wow, this is crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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