To a relative newcomer, the negativity here is overwhelming

[Katkon]

I was introduced to SWTOR a couple of years ago, and played it for a couple of months. Other games came out, and I left. With The Force Awakens out, I became nostalgic and resubscribed, and am really enjoying it. Sure, it's become a bit easier, but the story-telling is terrific and there's so much to do for someone with limited experience.

 

The biggest downer is this forum - however. So much negativity. I understand that the veterans amongst you are disappointed (isn't that always the case, after a while?) but to continue to post about it does nothing but put off fresh blood. And fresh blood is presumably needed to add to the game's revenue base, which will help fuel its longevity. Don't get me wrong - constructive feedback is always a good thing, but there's a big difference between constructive feedback or criticism and outright negativity and - dare I say it - whining.

 

Of course, a whining post about whining will draw criticism in and of itself. But going on, and on, and on about how EA/Bioware doesn't care, puts no thought into development, makes each iteration "worse" is hardly going to help anyone. In fact, I think it has the exact opposite effect.

 

I, for one, enjoy it. And judging by the "gazillions" of people I see online whenever I play, there must be plenty like me - which is good news! So let's get positive - or at the very least - constructive!

[Frenesi]

Oh ****, are such topics created daily now? At least doom and gloom was entertaining for a while.

 

There is a reason for the negativity. If you don't agree, feel free to participate in any of other 10 *********** topics we have right here.

[MiguelGx]

Oh ****, are such topics created daily now? At least doom and gloom was entertaining for a while.

 

There is a reason for the negativity. If you don't agree, feel free to participate in any of other 10 *********** topics we have right here.

 

Right this +1

[Nothing_Shines]

Yet another "I left years ago and just came back -look at all the stuff to do!" post.

 

Just like you apparently don't care about the opinions of people who NEVER LEFT and have been supporting the game for years, and have every right to speak up about what has been happening, while you were off giving your money to other games, I don't care about the opinion of the guy who decided to just wander back and thinks everything is great and can't we all just be happy and have a love fest for Bioware.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Nothing_Shines

[Skaara]

Right this +1

 

+ 2 And blasphemy ... doom is always fun

Edited December 24, 2015 by Skaara

[Phyreblade]

Avoid the General Forums, as a basic rule obviously. Stick to your own guild channels, maybe your server forums nearby; class forums for questions and directions are good -- I like the Story and Lore forums, personally. And then you'll be okay.

[iusCogens]

Has it gotten so bad that now we antagonize people who are having fun with the game? To OP, don't pay too much attention to all the threads you see. The game is fine, and there are likely a lot of people like you who are having a blast. As long as you're having fun, it's money and time well spent.

[DisIzMe]

I am positively and constructively sure you will enjoy the game which is good.

I am also positively and constructively sure that bringing new blood to the game and the revenue it will supposedly bring is a developers interest much more then it is mine and i have no intention doing their job while paying them,sorry.

There is a reason veteran players complain (whine/cry/being vocal) now and it is great that you are not at the stage in which there is nothing new and the old stuff is broken and nobody cares to fix it because the new business model is that there will always be new players that will play it for a while and then complain and leave and new batch will pop up and demand less negativity on forums and there will be no need for new content until the license runs out.

Rinse and repeat. Genius.

[TyHeaton]

I'm enjoying the game myself, but you can go to even the most successful MMO and its forums are nothing but negativity. Expecting different or expecting to change it is naive.

[Ghisallo]

Has it gotten so bad that now we antagonize people who are having fun with the game? To OP, don't pay too much attention to all the threads you see. The game is fine, and there are likely a lot of people like you who are having a blast. As long as you're having fun, it's money and time well spent.

 

No the point is that people who are not happy with what BW has done over the last two months are, tbh offended by the hypocrisy they are facing.

 

The threads complaining about not enough story or, more recently, protesting the companion nerf were all apparently valid complaints to many of the people currently enjoying the game. Now that these people are content however, people who raise their objections are somehow being overly negative or toxic?

 

I can use the search engine and go through 4 years of complaints about a perceived focus on group content, FPs and OPs. How Tacticals should be the focus and that HM FPs do not belong in a TOR game. I acknowledge that some people left over these issues when they felt their complaints were not heard. They now return and because they like what they see now they feel the "other side" doesn't have the right to complain? This is called hypocrisy.

 

Both sides of the issue are allowed to not only have informed opinions BUT equal right to express them as well.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Transcendent]

So, instead of simply adding your "voice" to a very similar topic, you add to the negativity by making yet another topic highlighting negativity? How does that help?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=861644

[Frenesi]

No the point is that people who are not happy with what BW has done over the last two months are, tbh offended by the hypocrisy they are facing.

 

The threads complaining about not enough story or, more recently, protesting the companion nerf were all apparently valid complaints to many of the people currently enjoying the game. Now that these people are content however, people who raise their objections are somehow being overly negative or toxic?

 

I can use the search engine and go through 4 years of complaints about a perceived focus on group content, FPs and OPs. How Tacticals should be the focus and that HM FPs do not belong in a TOR game. I acknowledge that some people left over these issues when they felt their complaints were not heard. They now return and because they like what they see now they feel the "other side" doesn't have the right to complain? This is called hypocrisy.

 

Both sides of the issue are allowed to not only have informed opinions BUT equal right to express them as well.

 

And god save us if WE ever say "Shut up with your positivity". Obviously the right to shut other people up belongs only to Bioware white knights.

[Pirana]

I was introduced to SWTOR a couple of years ago, and played it for a couple of months. Other games came out, and I left. With The Force Awakens out, I became nostalgic and resubscribed, and am really enjoying it. Sure, it's become a bit easier, but the story-telling is terrific and there's so much to do for someone with limited experience.

 

The biggest downer is this forum - however. So much negativity. I understand that the veterans amongst you are disappointed (isn't that always the case, after a while?) but to continue to post about it does nothing but put off fresh blood. And fresh blood is presumably needed to add to the game's revenue base, which will help fuel its longevity. Don't get me wrong - constructive feedback is always a good thing, but there's a big difference between constructive feedback or criticism and outright negativity and - dare I say it - whining.

 

Of course, a whining post about whining will draw criticism in and of itself. But going on, and on, and on about how EA/Bioware doesn't care, puts no thought into development, makes each iteration "worse" is hardly going to help anyone. In fact, I think it has the exact opposite effect.

 

I, for one, enjoy it. And judging by the "gazillions" of people I see online whenever I play, there must be plenty like me - which is good news! So let's get positive - or at the very least - constructive!

 

We're glad you're back, but for you to come to the forums and decide what is best for everyone is nearly idiotic. As mentioned a few posts back, most of us have been here for the duration and will always voice our displeasure in regards to the direction of this game.

 

[iusCogens]

They now return and because they like what they see now they feel the "other side" doesn't have the right to complain? This is called hypocrisy.

 

Both sides of the issue are allowed to not only have informed opinions BUT equal right to express them as well.

 

Nowhere in their post OP stated that the 'other side' doesn't have the right to complain. They understood and even acknowledged the disappointment of the old time players, but this is kind of overwhelming (and I agree, I haven't frequented the forum much for that reason). Imagine that someone is interested in trying out the game, and when they check the official forum all they see is threads about how bad the game has become. How is that going to encourage new people to try the game? New people = more revenue = more content. Here is someone who returned to the game and having a blast, and the first few responses basically condemned OP for having fun and not miserable as the rest of the community. Two wrongs don't make one right, silencing one side won't make your side heard.

Edited December 24, 2015 by iusCogens

[SootyTX]

And god save us if WE ever say "Shut up with your positivity". Obviously the right to shut other people up belongs only to Bioware white knights.

 

Hey, we have something we can agree on completely here Both sides have the absolute right to express their views within the rules of the forum, and asking one side or another to hush is going to be counterproductive in the worst way.

 

A player that returns but gets put off playing just because of what they read on this forum was never going to be here long anyway, before some slight remark in game made them quit.

[Ghisallo]

Nowhere in their post OP stated that the 'other side' doesn't have the right to complain. They understood and even acknowledged the disappointment of the old time players, but this is kind of overwhelming (and I agree, I haven't frequented the forum much for that reason). Imagine that someone is interested in trying out the game, and when they check the official forum all they see is threads about how bad the game has become. How is that going to encourage new people to try the game? New people = more revenue = more content. Here is someone who returned to the game and having a blast, and the first few responses basically condemned OP for having fun and not miserable as the rest of the community. Two wrongs don't make one right, silencing one side won't make your side heard.

 

Really...

 

but to continue to post about it does nothing but put off fresh blood.

 

In essence their entire post says "we have seen all we should of the posts criticising the game. It is what it is now please stop so that new players don't see things they might not like. I like the game now and for that To continue it needs new players to be profitable."

 

Well the problem is this. In response to threads like this, or simple praise threads, unhappy people will respond. As more and more people hit their breaking point with the lack of new content, new threads will be created and unhappy people will voice their support for the views.

 

If you read what I wrote I have NO issue is with someone liking what BW has done, whether they are returning players or new. My problem is with the clear point, to the reader who engages in critical thinking, of the OP. That in essence, "people have already made it clear they are unhappy, now stop."

[Asuka]

I was introduced to SWTOR a couple of years ago, and played it for a couple of months. Other games came out, and I left. With The Force Awakens out, I became nostalgic and resubscribed, and am really enjoying it. Sure, it's become a bit easier, but the story-telling is terrific and there's so much to do for someone with limited experience.

 

The biggest downer is this forum - however. So much negativity. I understand that the veterans amongst you are disappointed (isn't that always the case, after a while?) but to continue to post about it does nothing but put off fresh blood. And fresh blood is presumably needed to add to the game's revenue base, which will help fuel its longevity. Don't get me wrong - constructive feedback is always a good thing, but there's a big difference between constructive feedback or criticism and outright negativity and - dare I say it - whining.

 

Of course, a whining post about whining will draw criticism in and of itself. But going on, and on, and on about how EA/Bioware doesn't care, puts no thought into development, makes each iteration "worse" is hardly going to help anyone. In fact, I think it has the exact opposite effect.

 

I, for one, enjoy it. And judging by the "gazillions" of people I see online whenever I play, there must be plenty like me - which is good news! So let's get positive - or at the very least - constructive!

 

The forum is but a tiny fraction of the player base and same goes for any mmorpg. Some simply don't post because they don't want to deal with being called a fanboy or whatever because they are enjoying themselves and just looking to get some questions answered.

[SaerethDL]

if you are having fun, why do you care what people post on the forums... i dont get it? mind your own business is what my mom always told me.

[Ghisallo]

if you are having fun, why do you care what people post on the forums... i dont get it? mind your own business is what my mom always told me.

 

There are a number of reasons. The biggest is even noted in the OP. The OP likes the game as it stands and he realizes that new subs are needed for revenue. If new subs are scared off by those who point out short comings in the expansion they there is less revenue. If this revenue doesn't reach whatever their predetermined minimum ROI is then the experiment that is this expac will be considered a failure. This could in turn have 1 of 2 results.

 

1. True maintenance mode funding.

2. A change to a game paradigm that they may be less appreciative of

Edited December 24, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Ghisallo]

The forum is but a tiny fraction of the player base and same goes for any mmorpg. Some simply don't post because they don't want to deal with being called a fanboy or whatever because they are enjoying themselves and just looking to get some questions answered.

 

Not quite the same here. Remember, unlike a number of MMOs with a f2p option only subscribers can post. Subscriptions are also VERY important to them right now, based on needing one to access KotFE and the subscriber rewards they implemented. So lets say only 10% of total players actually post. That will be more than 10% of the subscriber base. Also that does not count the number of people that simply lurk (greater) so...

It has an impact.

[Hebruixe]

I was introduced to SWTOR a couple of years ago, and played it for a couple of months. Other games came out, and I left. With The Force Awakens out, I became nostalgic and resubscribed, and am really enjoying it. Sure, it's become a bit easier, but the story-telling is terrific and there's so much to do for someone with limited experience.

 

The biggest downer is this forum - however. So much negativity. I understand that the veterans amongst you are disappointed (isn't that always the case, after a while?) but to continue to post about it does nothing but put off fresh blood. And fresh blood is presumably needed to add to the game's revenue base, which will help fuel its longevity. Don't get me wrong - constructive feedback is always a good thing, but there's a big difference between constructive feedback or criticism and outright negativity and - dare I say it - whining.

 

Of course, a whining post about whining will draw criticism in and of itself. But going on, and on, and on about how EA/Bioware doesn't care, puts no thought into development, makes each iteration "worse" is hardly going to help anyone. In fact, I think it has the exact opposite effect.

 

I, for one, enjoy it. And judging by the "gazillions" of people I see online whenever I play, there must be plenty like me - which is good news! So let's get positive - or at the very least - constructive!

 

Interesting how the first few replies prove your point. Yes, trolls and douchbags are everywhere.

 

It's just the nature of forums. Go to any other game's website and you'll see the exact same thing. Inconsolable weeping.

 

Some of it comes from the vocal minority who have nothing better to do than b*tch and moan on the forums, while the silent majority are happily playing the game. Some of it is "professional trolling": people are paid (or otherwise compensated) by rival game companies to show up and spread the exact kind of hurtful negativity that you are talking about. Hoping to scare off new players.

 

If you enjoy the game, don't let these knuckleheads on the forums change your mind. It's impossible to reason with irrational hatred and/or people who are being bribed to attack the game.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Hebruixe

[Xo-Lara]

I was introduced to SWTOR a couple of years ago, and played it for a couple of months. Other games came out, and I left. With The Force Awakens out, I became nostalgic and resubscribed, and am really enjoying it. Sure, it's become a bit easier, but the story-telling is terrific and there's so much to do for someone with limited experience.

 

The biggest downer is this forum - however. So much negativity. I understand that the veterans amongst you are disappointed (isn't that always the case, after a while?) but to continue to post about it does nothing but put off fresh blood. And fresh blood is presumably needed to add to the game's revenue base, which will help fuel its longevity. Don't get me wrong - constructive feedback is always a good thing, but there's a big difference between constructive feedback or criticism and outright negativity and - dare I say it - whining.

 

Of course, a whining post about whining will draw criticism in and of itself. But going on, and on, and on about how EA/Bioware doesn't care, puts no thought into development, makes each iteration "worse" is hardly going to help anyone. In fact, I think it has the exact opposite effect.

 

I, for one, enjoy it. And judging by the "gazillions" of people I see online whenever I play, there must be plenty like me - which is good news! So let's get positive - or at the very least - constructive!

 

I think part of the problem with this is that this more or less ignores the fact that players can't regulate/moderate other player's posts. There are probably some whiners in the mix but not everyone. I doubt most of the people posting negative things hate the game entirely but there is something that is seriously rubbing them the wrong way. However, the person posting constructive criticism has no control over the trolls, the tantrum throwers, etc so all the posts appear together.

 

Further there is the issue of how one processes what they read in a thread. Sadly, it seems like players from a variety of play styles and interests are feeling the strain, so they all comment from the stand point of what rubs them wrong. This results in almost all aspects of the game getting hit by someone for some reason. While that can give the impression that the entire game is hated, that's not a good way of analyzing what is being said. A better way of looking at it is that the delicate balance in the game has been lost and now many people from many areas of interest are aggravated or irritated for some reason. Few are fully happy. Keep in mind that aggravated doesn't mean you won't play the game nor does playing the game mean you aren't aggravated.

 

Further, what completely happy people have commented so far seem to consistently be people who are returning after a long time. Generally when you have a newcomer to an argument, they don't have a good feel for what ground has been covered already or for what factions are involved. I think people who come into the argument mid way sometimes forget that limitation. In my experience, people who are completely happy when they are fresh to the argument end up coming right behind the "old" players they once complained about themselves and then pick up the exact same battle once they have been personally affected.

 

Therefore, I'd just say give it some time. I trust you'll eventually see what is rubbing people the wrong way.

 

While the complaining could probably stand to be dialed back some, there is a reason that is happening and growing frustration is what's fueling it not just whining. It's alright to not understand where a person is coming from, but to assume that that many people are just whining for no reason is usually the tell tale sign of someone that is blowing off other people's experiences. That is also not constructive to keeping things positive as it will further aggravate people.

[Shwarzchild]

Play the game if you've got the world of content at your feet. I cherish the memories I have of the first times I went through things, or overcame things. Truly satisfying stuff. I'm jealous that new people get to experience things for the first time still while I do not. I hope that as time rolls on this expansion yields more for me to experience on a first time basis. I loved going through Kotfe. I would love to know where it's going. It's the hand I've chosen to play with being that I have been here for as long as I have been. Maybe it's my jealousy that precludes me to be so annoyed with attitudes like this where in my head it amounts to nothing to see here move along you old filthy vets" when I know that's not the true way to interpret it.

 

I have my wishes for this game. I wish it exists for a long time to come so I can enjoy the friendships I've created over what's been a long haul. I wish to experience a "first time" again so I can feel what it's like to have that hugely satisfying moment hit me square in the jaw again. You, OP, have what I wish for at your finger tips. Don't waste those types of moments by starting these kinds of threads. Understand that you're in a great position, and a lot of us post negatively here because we want to be in your shoes again. And above all, get to playing and experiencing.

[yaxmutal]

The game is great.

 

But the game could be better.

 

People get upset when changes are made that clearly make the game worse, it makes them complain and want the old way back. People also very fairly complain about bugs like the last two events not running.

 

Things aren't perfect but overall the game is still great.

[hooty]

Forums are what they are OP. Most players never read the forums. Of those that read them, most of those never post.

 

"One-fifth of the people are against everything all the time."

-Robert Kennedy