ReverendAnderson Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 You're balancing around Heroics? What about the story quests? There's a lot more of those than there are Heroics, and if you're balancing the combat around the Heroic quests being solo-able for an "average" player then all of the content that was originally solo-able, before 4.0 is in Send Your Companion, Go Make Tea territory. I don't think there's a single, balanced power level you can set for players or their companions that will make both the easier and the harder content in the game both solo-able and rewarding for anybody. Ok, you might have fixed Heroics ... but how much of the game had to become boring and meaningless to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alssaran Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) I see no mention of fixes to tank mitigation/threat in his post, though, and was under the assumption that the patch tomorrow is the 4.0.3 patch that they had planned but more of an emergency "Oh **** the community is flipping out we need to do something." patch. Those aren't the patch notes. This is a simple statement regarding the recent companion nerf and the way to go from here on forward in regards to this nerf and the SF. Writing a few fixes into this statement is not necessary since those belong into the patch notes. The missing defense rating was/is a bug, it had no bearing on the nerf. You're balancing around Heroics? What about the story quests? There's a lot more of those than there are Heroics, and if you're balancing the combat around the Heroic quests being solo-able for an "average" player then all of the content that was originally solo-able, before 4.0 is in Send Your Companion, Go Make Tea territory. They are balancing around the fact that Heroics are soloable, which is sensitive. Story content was always considered to be a "low skill" activity, even prior to 4.0. Most combat ever since 1.2 in that area of the game was trivial for anyone with a basic understanding of their class. The leveling content isn't meant to be hard or medium in challenge, it is meant to be easy to give a basic understanding of the game. Edited November 23, 2015 by Alssaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewnian Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Star Fortresses Which leads me to Star Fortresses. We are going to treat Star Fortresses as a different topic from Companion balance. The initial difficulty level for Star Fortresses are clearly story content, meaning, we expect all of you to take part and enjoy them while earning new Contacts. This hasn’t changed. The difficult mode for Star Fortresses, though, we feel is a challenge that players should aspire to achieve, and not something players should easily do without gearing up their character and increasing their Companion’s Influence level. I am curious if it's intentional design that you drop 208 gear/mods from the harder version of Star Fortress, but seemingly expect players to be geared better than that before succeeding in them? Please excuse the question if you regard 208 ilevel as a character getting geared for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngFour Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) What we failed to realize was how much most of you would enjoy them [Heroic 2's], but also how frequently you would engage in them. REALLY?! You failed to realize how many people would engage and "enjoy" the Heroic 2's? Seriously? When we need approximately 320 crates, PER CHARACTER, to get our Alliances to 20 and one of the only ways to reliably get them is by doing 320 Heroic 2's, you failed to realize how many people would be doing them? Seriously? *laughs forever* Edited November 23, 2015 by AngFour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katahn Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thank you for the update. I agree that the initial runs of the Star Fortresses needed for the companions should be either changed to be doable on solo mode or for those versions only you get a GSI bot. Subsequent heroic runs can be left alone and the challenge level left as is. I'm not interested in farming those so for me it won't matter, I just want to be able to finish my solo-quest to get the companions on all of my characters. I read in these forums that companion tanking shield/absord/armor ratings at level-cap are expected to be fixed in tomorrow's patch too. Please while you're reviewing changes consider lowering the cooldown on the tank-mode's AOE abilities? I can live with the damage being adjusted downward to compensate, but the AI is terrible now about peeling agro off of my healer when I get it from healing said tank companion while trying to solo heroics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alssaran Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) REALLY?! *laughs forever* I guess some people will stay jerks, regardless of the person openly admitting that they made a mistake. You have lost, sir. Please show yourself out the door. It's one thing to criticise a change with constructive feedback. It's one thing to not acknowledge an excuse. But it is a totally different thing to try to rub it into a persons face and ridicule them for admitting it. This is my reaction to your post, thanks to the movie industry: Edited November 23, 2015 by Alssaran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmyownworld Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 First, thank you for post, and the apology, Michael Backus. Emergent Gameplay [Heroic 2]s. Before Knights of the Fallen Empire, Heroics were not very utilized content. Most players ignored them after doing them once. So when we highlighted areas of improvement for our leveling experience, we knew we wanted to make Heroics sexier. We wanted players to have good reason to go do them, but also give players a reason to join up with their friends. What we failed to realize was how much most of you would enjoy them, but also how frequently you would engage in them. This is a bit of a head-scratcher. For me, the planetary Heroics were old content I've done, or had no interest in doing, for 3 years. With KotFE, planetary Heroics are still old content, just with new rewards. I'm confused as to how it would be surprising that so many players (especially those with a character(s) in KotFE) would do planetary Heroics. That's where the game directs players -- go do Heroics. How was that a surprise? Full disclosure: I do the Heroics for the crates. I do not enjoy re-doing the Heroics. "With Companions being the power level they were, “everyone” began enjoying them." "Everyone?" Pre-4.0 many (most?) players who had acquired companions used a companion whenever possible. How has that changed with 4.0? I can only go by what I've seen, of course. But I have always seen players, more often than not, using companions in SW:TOR. Again Michael Backus, thank you for the communication. I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychopyro Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I am curious if it's intentional design that you drop 208 gear/mods from the harder version of Star Fortress, but seemingly expect players to be geared better than that before succeeding in them? Please excuse the question if you regard 208 ilevel as a character getting geared for them. He was pretty clear I think... They mean for the Star Fortress to be similar to the Cerka flashpoints when they first came out. Intended to be 2 player (2 palyers, 2 companions) content. Once you get to a point in the gear grind AFTER that, and you know your class, you should be able to do it solo the Star Fortress for the achievements. While the original Cerka FPs were not intended to be solo, raid gear made it possible to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I guess some people will stay jerks, regardless of the person openly admitting that they made a mistake. You have lost, sir. Please show yourself out the door. It's one thing to criticise a change with constructive feedback. It's one thing to not acknowledge an excuse. But it is a totally different thing to try to rub it into a persons face and ridicule them for admitting it. This is my reaction to your post, thanks to the movie industry: Yes, some people are just jerks. That's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devincor Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 You lost me forever. What a bunch of BS.....Oh well it was fun. I'll probably check out the story on youtube but beyond that it's clear this isn't a game anymore, it's an interactive movie and that's not what I signed up for. Well, to quote another logical sci-fi character: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuke Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I guess some people will stay jerks, regardless of the person openly admitting that they made a mistake. I mean, he's got a point though. BioWare seems pretty routinely completely caught off guard at players doing...exactly what the game was designed to have them do. Admitting that you made a mistake doesn't free you from further criticism and/or questions as to how the mistake was made. This is hardly the first time BioWare has screwed up or made a very stupid mistake. If it was, there would be far more leniency from folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Why not add solo modes to the Star Fortresses, in a similar way like with the FPs in the Revan Prelude ? Edited November 23, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan_Cousland Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The OP is all well and good, and definitely welcome. But if gathering new contacts is part of the Story, then the Star Fortress mission you're sent off on to complete getting that Alliance contact should be the Solo mode, not what is currently called Heroic. The Heroic SF should be reserved for those who want the gear and such, but shouldn't be a requirement of the story if it's not at the level of the other Heroics. EXACTLY this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngFour Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) I guess some people will stay jerks, regardless of the person openly admitting that they made a mistake. You have lost, sir. Please show yourself out the door. It's one thing to criticise a change with constructive feedback. It's one thing to not acknowledge an excuse. But it is a totally different thing to try to rub it into a persons face and ridicule them for admitting it. This is my reaction to your post, thanks to the movie industry: Hey, if you're going to quote (and insult) me, how about you quote the entire context, m'kay? ETA: P.S. I'm not a "Sir." I'm a "Ma'am." You can never be sure what the gender is of someone on the internet, so you're safest bet is to remain as gender neutral as possible. Girls like and play SWTOR, too, you know. Edited November 24, 2015 by AngFour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I like this post, this is a nice post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) REALLY?! You failed to realize how many people would engage and "enjoy" the Heroic 2's? Seriously? When we need approximately 320 crates, PER CHARACTER, to get our Alliances to 20 and one of the only ways to reliably get them is by doing 320 Heroic 2's, you failed to realize how many people would be doing them? Seriously? *laughs forever* Let me try to explain. Sometime developers have this myopia where they can't understand the OCD tendencies of their playerbase. So in this case, while there is NO indication that there is ANY need to max out your Alliance. Nor is there ANY indication that people have to rush to do so. Nevertheless, players feel compelled to do so and will do things they might not even like to accomplish the task. So from the devs perspective, they seen the Heroic 2s as optional content. They'll give you a nice reward, but there's no reason to grind them until your eyes bleed. From many player's perspective they just see that they haven't hit Alliance level 20 and must do so at all costs. I imagine that there are people out there that would go so far as to say they are "forced" to do Heroic 2s. Edited November 23, 2015 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpinter Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Sounds like a good approach. Looking forward to Tuesday. Thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-morgan Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 You can find the exact changes coming in tomorrow’s patch, below. Michael Backus Lead Designer There's no schedule posted (yet) for a patch tomorrow (11/24)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alssaran Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Yes, some people are just jerks. That's it Oh, I can be considered a jerk too. Don't get me wrong. I just won't rub anything into a persons face when they are clearly taking the time to apologize and are honest. I'll rub it in when someone is being a jerk for no reason though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trobon Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 "Everyone?" Pre-4.0 many (most?) players who had acquired companions used a companion whenever possible. How has that changed with 4.0? I can only go by what I've seen, of course. But I have always seen players, more often than not, using companions in SW:TOR. The everyone enjoying "them" seems to be in reference to Heroics, not companions. Companions being more powerful made players enjoy heroics is the idea as far as I read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) yes they are heroic's are dailies since they reset every day, the only thing that is classed as a weekly is the instant travel to the heroic area,you can still go and find the quest giver and do the heroic the normal way... No, they do not reset every day. I have checked. They are only able to be done once a week per planet as I have done them and they don't reset daily. When Alderaan was one of the conquest heroics, I did the ones listed on the terminal and then I traveled to each quest giver and no I could not get them and do them again and I tried that for 2 days. Edited November 23, 2015 by ScarletBlaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 There's no schedule posted (yet) for a patch tomorrow (11/24)... They'll release a patch don't worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerlockVonBaron Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 cant wait to see new changes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOWTHOR Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thanks for the apology, but you never said what you were sorry for. Why did this happen? You say you had very specific design goals for this release but missed by an ENORMOUS amount. I play very casually and do not consider myself to be very knowledgeable or very good at SWTOR, but I knew within 5 minutes of play the state of companions. It was not a mystery, it was not subtle, companions were now super-powered. This is not an isolated fringe-case, this is everywhere in the game. Either the designers did a poor job of communicating their ideas to the developers and/or the testers, or the dev/testers did a poor job of accomplishing the design. But this was released with knowledge of the condition of companions and I assume everyone's approval. How did the design get so poorly implemented? Did the designers try the expansion before release? How are you going to prevent this level of mistake from happening in the future? Tell me what went wrong, what you are doing to prevent it, and apologize for that. Then I'll accept the apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Thank you for the update and the post...very appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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