Companion Change Feedback

[ped_i]

Lol while I agree comps were over nerfed im a little happy to see this post pretty much saying people need to stop pressing random buttons in junk gear and expect to do well on a heroic mission. From my point of view at least you have the average player starting off with heroics then up to solo fps, tactical, hm flashpoints then sm ops from there into hm ops finishing with nim ops. When you have people doing down right awful things to clear heroics while clearly being carried by comps what happens when they try a tactical or up and believe those same bad tactics are viable?

 

 

Anywho companions were stronger than actual geared players and don't waste gcds like human beings nerf was needed, just bad that it was so big.

 

BONK BONK, agree with Donna.

Also gear doesn't really matter in H2s since everyone gets bolstered to the same stats... there is just a whole lot wrong with BW metrics and well, everything about BW is wrong.

[Mourkoth]

The companions being so OP was a bug.... duh...

 

Then unfix it damnit.

[FawarFawar]

Hey folks,

 

The team will be reviewing all feedback, along with supporting data, to see what / if any future adjustments need to be made. Thank you all in advance for your feedback!

 

-eric

 

There is no point in providing the information he's requested.

The only reason this post was created was to try and appease those of us who are unhappy with this change.

 

If they truly cared about feedback they wouldn't have been silent for a month after 4.0 was released.

They would have asked for feedback at least a few weeks before the orbital nuke to companions instead of telling us the day before that they were being nerfed.

 

I highly doubt anyone at bioware is actually going to ready any of the feedback provided, this is nothing more then a delay tactic to try and get people to calm down and post in this thread instead of filling General Discussion with multiple negative threads.

Edited November 19, 2015 by FawarFawar

[Neoforcer]

Holy bawls, Bioware.....my guild (and three allied guilds) died in a single night because of this. Roll back the damn update. Please.

 

 

They do not care either way this post from eric would of said hey we are aware people are un happy and having trouble were looking into as well as posting email to people and letting the player know they come to the forums list the modes of what people are doing pls give feedback well they have there feedback a mass cancel buttons. While asking for feedback instead they list how hard stuff should be and feel rather then say we may have messed up sorry guys....

 

 

Server pops over night have gone to light during the day were thye were standard and heavy at knight Eric why don't you all run those numbers metrics...

Edited November 19, 2015 by Neoforcer

[Atalantia]

The companions being so OP was a bug.... duh...

 

Maybe you should read erics post from yesterday he specifically said they made them that way the things people will say to get what they want Tsk tsk tsk

[captradface]

So, you made this decision based on your metrics, but now you need metrics?

[Drudenfusz]

LOL There is one every other month it seems like. This seems on par with the slot machine thing.

That is not entirely true. Sure, there is often a topic that blows up here on the forums, like the slot machine, but it is usually only something that affects only a minority of players, like the ones who bought the specific item. This however affects pretty much everyone, since companions are such a core feature of the game, and lots of players like the taste they got with 4.0 and feel 4.0.2 takes it all away. And on top of that, companions have lots of bugs since 4.0 but instead of fixing the issues we get a nerf that leaves players just with a bad taste because the bugs are all still there that make it now such a terrible play experience.

[Neoforcer]

So, you made this decision based on your metrics, but now you need metrics?

 

Ironic stall tactics while people hit the cancel sub buttons instead of button mashing. They have there metrics People are mad and leaving there your metrics and feedback now do some thing about it....

[Brayla_Sana]

Something that only drops 208 gear should not require augmented 216s and 220s to complete, and it does at present. Retune the instance, or retune companions.

 

tl;dr: A lot of people who play this game can't clear heroics (never mind heroic Star Fortresses) with companions as they are right now, and that needs to change.

 

QFE! Can I get an AMEN!

Edited November 19, 2015 by Brayla_Sana

[Exly]

The companions being so OP was a bug.... duh...

 

Not according to -eric, and I quote:

 

Hey Ghisallo,

 

Good questions, let me take a stab at them.

First answer - This wasn't a QA issue as it isn't a bug. Our goal with Fallen Empire was to ensure that all of our story content was very accessible to all players, new and old. The power of Companions was certainly a part of that, and so we do want them to be strong. However, we went a bit too far on the strong side, and need to bring that back in line.

 

Second answer - You can kind of see from the first answer that this will work to fix the issue and not be a band-aid as it is just a question of balancing. Now, it is always possible we will make future tweaks, but this should bring Companions more in line. They will still be strong, but they will not overshadow the power of a player.

 

-eric

 

Duh.

[Neoforcer]

That is not entirely true. Sure, there is often a topic that blows up here on the forums, like the slot machine, but it is usually only something that affects only a minority of players, like the ones who bought the specific item. This however affects pretty much everyone, since companions are such a core feature of the game, and lots of players like the taste they got with 4.0 and feel 4.0.2 takes it all away. And on top of that, companions have lots of bugs since 4.0 but instead of fixing the issues we get a nerf that leaves players just with a bad taste because the bugs are all still there that make it now such a terrible play experience.

 

Thank you for a thought out post rather then the elitist saying this game is boring unless i feel like i running a raid while leveling alts....

[Draqsko]

Here's some numbers Eric.

 

http://imgur.com/a/tX5fh

 

1k EHPS with 190 DAPS on the shield absorb for an influence level 10 companion is very very low compared to what they were in 3.0.

 

This is a flashpoint that I've been able to solo since it was released, in 162 gear with my companion in 162. It's rated for 2 players, not 4 therefore my companion should be a suitable substitute considering my DPS is usually twice what Operations require for average DPS to beat enrage timers. Healer companions should be able to heal this since they only have to basically heal one person and themselves while I do the work of 2 DPS and the tank. They don't have to be equal to a player to complete this, roughly 2k ehps was all I needed to complete a solo run, but in 3.0 with 192 gear they were hitting 3k ehps and my hp wouldn't really drop below 50%.

 

Our companions are worse now than they were in 3.0 or at any other time prior when we could gear them ourselves. If your stated intent was that companions be comparable to players if not quite as good, then this is clearly not working as intended. They are comparable to level 50 players in campaign gear, they are not even close to comparable to level 65 players in 200 gear.

[Drudenfusz]

So, you made this decision based on your metrics, but now you need metrics?

Scientists do, but the thing is one has to be capable of understanding what the date actually means, I see it so often that people who have no clue about maths draw flawed conclusions from statistics they see.

[Xsurgeon]

Level 65

216-220

Vengence Juggernaut

Lana

Healer

40

 

Alderran H2: The Ulgo Droid Factory

First Fight 2 Elites, 1 Strong

My Health 87%, Lana 85%.

Lana not being at 100% at the end of the fight is unusual in and of itself.

No defensive buffs used. DPS’d elites down and then the strong mob. Fight takes less than 30 seconds.

This is my experience throughout.

Lowest health: myself/companion 74%/78% (final mob got me down to 66%)

Something to note. Lana now stun locks a different mob from the one I choose to begin the engagement with. This is pretty cool as that was super frustrating for me before this patch.

 

Overall time remains about the same as before for the H2, roughly fifteen minutes.

WIll update this tonight to post solo and heroic star fortresses.

 

Cheers,

B

[Moranae]

Your level : 65

Roughly Average Item Rating 4 pieces 216 1 piece 220 all others 208 all gear augmented 208 (full presence, all datacrons, legendary statut)

Discipline Shadow Infiltration

Companion Lana

Companion role Tank

Companion Influence level 32

Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?) Heroic

Your personal experience while playing this content :

Before the 4.02 i could solo those, took me some tries to understand the mechanics, and as i did not want to read but discover i died somewhat at start, but after having done each of them once, i could manage to do these, sometimes with one death but at the end no more.

 

Now after the 4.02 i attempted Voss heroic this morning : i was surprised to manage to go until the boss without death, but ..... the boss reminded me that my time in those was over : 15 deaths with the Exarch :

I had the buffs from the slicing machines and the buffs from the Heroic instance, and my Heroics bars with the 8 class

i was in dps shadow, Lana as heals, so after 5 deaths, i tried to go the Tank mode so i even bought 450 CC to be able to respec on the field and not restart the instance.

I had some tank gear on me 208, i swapped some pieces and here i go again : Lana goes down first in 15secondes no matter my use of taunts, and after that me : 8 deaths in tank mode with Lana as heals

So i went back to dps mode with Lana as DPS too, i dropped a turret, used all i could, Lana went down after 1min, the boss was almost dead this time but once i was alone, with everything on timer, i was done, and died and died again.

 

Of course i am not a very good player, i am patient and i learn but my reflexes are surely not always the good ones but to finish this instance here what i did :

 

I started my second computer, logged in my second account, and summoned my other 65 with her Lana to help me : so i was able with two keyboards to manage it, i was alone at the end, but the heals from the second Lana helped me to go through.

 

I dont think this is the way it is intended. And dont tell me to group i totally refuse : i did it already and people rush as always, need on everything as always, yell at you, and i spend my time shaking that one of them kick me, so i do more silly stuff than i do solo. If you think this is the fun i want you are wrong.

 

-----

Now i dont ask you to put the companion as they were, but at least do something reasonable and not so harsh.

 

When i could equip my companions, they all had the max augments, puple stuff even before me, because i wanted them to be there for me and not the other way.

 

Now you decided that we should have some stupid sheep paperdoll, just good enough to stand for 30sec, this is unfair.

 

----

Forget to add about Theron tank mode:

You probably made a change but actually he never leap anymore to the mobs as he was doing before the patch, he just double salto near me, try to use the grapple, fail and either taunt them while staying near me or run to the mobs (died 5 times in Voss heroics planetary not the Fortress, because he had lure to me half of the mobs while staying near me)

 

----

As you think that the achievement for the Fortress must be a real challenge then when will you reset it for everyone so those who had the easy way can show us how well then can do now ?

Edited November 19, 2015 by Moranae

[Aricin]

Eric, I think it's incredibly disingenuous of you and your game designers to treat this subject as something you are already completely unfamiliar with, because it takes ten seconds to realize what a huge controversy you created with these changes - I've NEVER seen the SWTOR forums in such disarray.

 

The fact of the matter is, you not only gave us the companions we had when 4.0 was released (a week early to those of us who subscribed during your important periods), you left them that way for a month. And you did it without ANY developer-player engagement, choosing to disappear and go silent nearly the entire time. You've now directly caused your players to engage in a flame war on your forums, steadfast opponents arguing against intractable supporters.

 

I believe your companions have been nerfed too much. A smaller, incremental change to healing would have worked had you strengthened both the player *and* the tank/DPS roles, but you nerfed everything. More to the point, your developers failed to take into account the fact that your players got used to a particular game style which you have now yanked from under them.

 

Eric, you may not have experienced Star Wars Galaxies, but I urge you and the development team to take a good look at what they did. They too provided something for an extensive period of time, and then took it away from players. The game NEVER recovered. You CANNOT do that to paying customers and expect the situation to merely rectify itself without a lot of interaction and explanation. One thread asking for feedback, a thread you will almost certainly never post in again, doesn't suffice.

 

For the record, I am an original beta tester, Founder and long time subscriber, and I won't be renewing my subscription. Not because you nerfed your companions, but because you nerfed your companions after letting us play with them without indication there was anything broken for an entire month, and then you completely ignored the player community's upset. Good luck with your game.

 

This! Couldn't have said it better

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Maybe you should read erics post from yesterday he specifically said they made them that way the things people will say to get what they want Tsk tsk tsk

 

Yes I did, you do mean this one:

Ultimately, this decision came down to our own goals for Companions, along with data on how they were performing. What we saw in those instances is that Companions, simply put, were just way too good. Their healing and damage output could be greater than that of a very skilled player with a fully maximized character.

 

~

 

However, in looking at how strong Companions are, we may have gone a bit too far in that direction. Simply put, while playing through much of the game, there are a lot of situations in regular combat where it is practically impossible for you to be killed if you have a healing Companion.

 

~

 

-eric

Yes I did. They didn't say it was a bug, but they say it was not working as intended, which would be a bug....

[TUXs]

This is my feedback as well. At this point, I'd rather have 3.0 companions back than what we have now.

And optional level sync...that's one of the reasons this nerf hits so hard imo...there's no place left for less than "good" players to go any longer.

[tmwfte]

This is horrible, but this image popped into my head:

 

BioWare as the captain of the Titanic: "Everything's fine! The ship is working as intended. No need to panic You'll just get a bit wet!"

[GeeDubya]

Hey folks,

 

Following the Companion changes we made Tuesday in 4.0.2, we want to gather your feedback on your gameplay experiences. We hope by this point you have had some time to jump in and get your hands on the changes yourselves. First, before we get into the feedback we are looking for, let’s talk a bit about our specific design goals related to Companions:

 

-eric

 

Not to be rude, but wondering if 1400 plus posts in your other thread on patch 4.0.2 isn't enough feedback? Not mention the dozens of other threads.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

So, you made this decision based on your metrics, but now you need metrics?

 

With metrics it took them a month to change/address this at all. You can wait on that, or you can let them try and address your concerns sooner. Which would you prefer?

[Adaarye]

All Alderan, The Ulgo Droid Factory H2 (to see just how bad the nerf was):

 

Level 65, Merc, 208/216 mix. Koth Heal Mode, 30 Influence

Relatively familiar with the class

Slow, grindy, died as last mobs died. Finished but it was in no way shape form or fashion fun. Fun is what I pay for. Did these flawlessly and had much fun pre-nerf.

 

Level 65 Operative. 208/190

Lana Heal Mode, 12 Influence

Same exact outcome as above. Same exact lack of fun factor. (2nd account)

 

Level 65 Sorceress, Madness 220/208/216 Mix

Theron heal Mode, Influence 14

Instance was easier to complete but still not a great deal of fun.

 

I have several other level 65's across the two accounts but due to my level of disappointment with the post-nerf damage done to my fun factor, I've not used any of the rest. My hearts just not in it. I've unsubbed both accounts and am lamenting the amount of money I spent on Cartel Coins during the brief period that the game was so much fun. Thanks for that time and I will re-sub if the nerf is brought back to a reasonable level.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Adaarye

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Not according to -eric, and I quote:

 

Hey Ghisallo,

 

Good questions, let me take a stab at them.

First answer - This wasn't a QA issue as it isn't a bug. Our goal with Fallen Empire was to ensure that all of our story content was very accessible to all players, new and old. The power of Companions was certainly a part of that, and so we do want them to be strong. However, we went a bit too far on the strong side, and need to bring that back in line.

 

Second answer - You can kind of see from the first answer that this will work to fix the issue and not be a band-aid as it is just a question of balancing. Now, it is always possible we will make future tweaks, but this should bring Companions more in line. They will still be strong, but they will not overshadow the power of a player.

 

-eric

 

Duh.

 

I did read that, but honestly forgot. That attitude is exactly why this became a problem. This should be considered a bug and should have been resolved before this left QA.

[Ksen]

That is not entirely true. Sure, there is often a topic that blows up here on the forums, like the slot machine, but it is usually only something that affects only a minority of players, like the ones who bought the specific item. This however affects pretty much everyone, since companions are such a core feature of the game, and lots of players like the taste they got with 4.0 and feel 4.0.2 takes it all away. And on top of that, companions have lots of bugs since 4.0 but instead of fixing the issues we get a nerf that leaves players just with a bad taste because the bugs are all still there that make it now such a terrible play experience.

 

Yes. This^. This exactly why i unsub.

[Beratus]

Please give us your feedback, and we simply ask you to be as constructive as possible. Include information such as:

• Your level
  
• Roughly Average Item Rating
  
• Discipline
  
• Companion
  
• Companion role
  
• Companion Influence level
  
• Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?)
  
• Your personal experience while playing this content
  

If you have a video or other related content to go with your feedback, feel free to link that as well as it will allow us the best insight into your experiences.

 

Level: 36-37

Item Level: 80-88

Discipline: Defense Guardian

Companion: Kira

Companion Role: All (tried her as a tank/dps/healer)

Companion Influence Level: 13

Missions: Nar Shaddaa H2's

Personal Experience:

These were much more difficult and tedious after 4.0.2. I don't have a full legacy, I don't have all the datacrons. So I have lowish Presence. Had to sit and heal after every pull and died several times. These deaths were typically due to a roamer aggroing us or pulling an additional mob or two by accident. As a healer the heals couldn't keep up with the incoming damage. As a DPS she couldn't put out enough DPS to race the mobs down and as a tank she died incredibly fast. She definitely performed best as a healer, but I had to burn cooldowns and god help me if I missed even a single interrupt. There were also times where Kira would stop healing entirely and either just stand there or she'd run in do a few basic attacks and then just stand there.

 

Overall the game is more tedious and much less fun than it was. I've already unsubbed and have encouraged my friends that came back with me to do the same.