I am going to disagree here. If you face a skilled pre made you're always on the back foot as a solo player no matter how skilled / good you are. Coordination always wins, taunts, guard plus pocket healer allows the pre made to absorb most pressure that anyone can throw at them. And once the first 2-3 min of a match pass and the cycle is established and then you can pick of the 1/2/3 players that spawn as they come in. Some maps even the playing field a bit, but mostly true statement. Love these comments a bit further back along the lines "these guys cant even hit 3k dps" guess what hot shot, cant DPS when you're dead. If BW released an option for solo gueue only unranked and queue unranked as is now (mixed grp/solo) the current queue would be dead compared to solo only.

50 games in 2 days and majority being on day. If i am being generous and put each game at 10min and 5min between games that's 12.5 hours played in 2 days (in reality you spend much more time in game than that) - and by your comment most of that in one day. Let's ignore my first thought - to each their own. That was my list and reflects my experiences for last months playing PvP. Clearly your experience varies. But somehow my experiences reflect that of the OP and others. Again, coming back to point in that post and the thread - reread OPs post "why i am done with PvP" - note the title- on this 35 page thread. Scroll up just a few posts to 342 - someone who PvPed and who is now not PvPing anymore. Mmmm wonder why???? You can find someone on every page or just go look at number of posts on page 1 of the PvP forum and the same 20 people come out and argue that the reasons those people are" done with PvP" are not valid. I.e. premades in unranked are not a problem. Lack of rewards in comparison to other games modes are not a problem. Losses shouldnt count and so. But keep fighting the good fight

I normally dont play 10 games in a night usually 4-5. I was making a point of the experience of solo queuing the last 6-7 weeks and my experience as a solo queue player is that I am facing what feels like a lot of TDM pre mades. And yes AHG is the one game mode that rewards kills over anything similarly as Voidstar or Hutball are the opposite. The point is completely flying over your head is that people are quitting left and right and not sticking to PvP. “All working as intended – don’t want those losers playing anyway”. And as you so eloquently hinted I may be the problem. Thank you for you L2P and GETGUD advise. Clearly having 15 medals and sitting near top of the DPS charts in a game despite being tunnelled by the opposing team isn’t good enough I need to do better – doing dmg as a DPS and playing objective – mind blown.

I am just going to leave this hear from a different thread. Posted a week or so ago. As a solo player you can absolutely play well and still get screwed by match making and loose a ton of games despite playing well.

Applies / oranges. No one here cares what queue times are in FFXIV. We're discussing SWtoR PvP and are on a 33 page thread (one of many) where the OP literally laid why he is done with playing with PvP. And yes he can say "The fact remains that with these new rules the casual players are leaving PvP in droves" because the issue became such a problem that BW implemented a leaver ban. And that action in and by it self is an example of BW history of knee jerk adjustments to underlying issues that plague PvP

Are you for real? PvP has always been the bastard step child in terms of players participating and validated by the lack of any attention by BW to address anything as compared to player base very few people play. But, please keep your head in the sand and pretend everything is fine. All the threads on the first page are related in some form to no incentive for playing / pre mades in unranked and discussion always comes back to people leaving matches and not sticking with PvP to actually get better.

wow, how long did it take for you to cook that non sense up. Chiefs vs Bucks is the equivalent of ranked - 2 competitive teams that trained all season and competing for the cup. Arnold vs Lou is again 2 athletes choosing to compete at the peak of the sport. If you really want to make an anology, here you go, unranked PvP in SWtoR is the equivalent of intramural BBall at crappy university. And what we have here is all the has been high school players that didnt make to the next level group up together beating up the scrubs.

Base line statement. SWtoR is a casual game for casual games. If you want progression raiding and what not this isn’t game and similar for PvP. The same small number of people play ranked and the general population couldn’t care less. MMOs and respective game modes within live and die by their population. And its current format by lack of rewards (wins don’t count) and some premades discourage new players from trying out PvP and actually getting good. There are 2 types of “pre mades” – 1) play the objective 2) go full team death match mode. The TDM premades are toxic and turn players away. Go look through the number of posts on this forum and you also have 2 types of posters / players. 1) that like keep group queue in unranked, but acknowledge TDM premades are an issue 2) those that don’t care and rather continue to rofl stomp their way through for easy wins population be damned. Case and point majority of comments in this thread. Quick disclaimer, played since launch on and off. Highest player is rank 91 with a couple 80s and quite a few 60-70s. Doesn’t mean anything other than that I do play a fair amount of PvP. For example, below is my experience of 10 games played yesterday. Some breaks in between Solo queued each time. 1. Yavin Ruins Loss TDM premade on opposite team 3 players quit my team in first 2 min. but close game in the end due spread out map. Still fun match 2. Hypergate Win TDM pre made my team ridiculous score. 3. Voidstar Loss no premades noticeable close game, fun 4. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 2 players quit. ridiculous score 5. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 1 player quit. ridiculous score 6. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team no player quit. close for half game then stupid score 7. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 5(!) players quit, back fill / quit and repeat. stupid score 8. Hypergate Loss premade on opposite team no player quit. very close game down the wire 9. Yavin Ruins Win no premades noticeable easy win 10. Hypergate Loss TDM premade on opposite team 2 players quit. ridiculous score If I didnt stick to plan to play 10 games regardless I would have stopped after 2. Cause honestly, there was nothing fun about facing TDM pre mades when your team as soloers and some are new, under geared or inexperienced etc. You can still get 10-12 medals and your 2million dmg or whatever, but what is the point? And if I was a new or inexperienced player I wouldn’t play PvP again.

My personal view is that the number of players that click "solo queue" only will vastly out number the solo players / groups queueing. It wont even be close. Not all pre mades are bad, its the "TDM" groups that are pissing people off and they're really pushing people. I played 4 games yesterday and twice was grouped with a premade that basically just TDMed and ops chat was filled with such hate. People were truly angry and pissed off. I hadnt seen that much hate and vitriol in ops chat in a long time.

You and some other in recent posts are absolutely correct. And you worded it quite well, better than i been trying to do. For context my main is almost valor 100 and got a few rank 70/80s and while I dont care about gear / fragments etc. I care about winning and in a weird way i do care about the daily and weekly. The behaviour you describe just rubs me the wrong way to no end and unfortunately the single player doing stupid stuff does not hurt the team as much as when a "pre made" does it. Summing it up, the no rewards for losses are not promoting new players to try out pvp and stick with it long enough to get better (GSF????) and then often be subjected to "TMD" behaviour - for me thats at least 50% of the games i queue in - creates an environment that is only going to lead to further population decline which is what none of us want.

Did anything i posted gave the impression that what mode is available in ranked is relevant? And this was an argument in relation to the main point of this thread. Further, we have new threads in this forum almost every day about how losses are "rewarded" in regular. Note regular - not ranked. And as I argued a number of times SWtoR is a casual game for casual gamers. And pre mades in regular are often - not always - toxic. There are plenty of premades that do NOT play objectives but go into a match with the objective to farm kills and nothing more. BW messed up system allows them to win those matches 99% of the time despite not playing objectives. Games and modus within live and die with their population. And those "toxic" premades combined with losses not being rewarded actively drive players away from this mode. Especially when other modus' within the game are more rewarding - GSF for example. Why do losses count towards daily / weekly? I would like an active PvP population because I enjoy the game modus and want new players to stick with it so they do get better, play smartly and objectives and show up decently geared. But please keep ignoring the obvious problems and population decline

The thread is derailing as usual. Go back to page 1 and read A new player explained - not *****ed, explained why they're done with PvP. Other players commented agreed until a certain crowed came in and made the same arguments as they always do. L2P, GetGud and blah Multiplayer games and respective modus within live and die by their player base. SWtoR is a casual game played for the most part by casuals. If you want progression raiding this not your game. If you want hardcore PvP this is also most definitely not your game. And in its current format, casual players - the core population - feel discouraged to play PvP ultimately hurting all of us that enjoy PvP here. As explained in the original posts that so valiantly being ignored here. Lack of players equals lack of effort / focus by Devs and can only end in a downward spiral. 8v8 ranked failed for a number of reasons and people can deny it all they want lack of population was one of them. Add in the win trading that place at large scale. As someone else said in an earlier post if the pool of ranked groups is limited to the point that you're likely to see the same opponent again and again. Then the number of ranked groups that want to play other ranked groups is very small. You might be decent, but if you had to play the equivalent of the Lakers ever other match, you would stop. In other games competitive by core - example like BF/MW/Apex or whatever you switch maps / server and move on not an option here. Keep shuffling the blame around and continue to ignore the issue at hand.

This sums up my view better than i was able to express it. Specifically your last sentence.

Please dont presume I am new to the game. I played pretty much daily from launch until some point 5.0 then took a break came back some time before 6.0 and been more causal since then. Does that make my opinion more qualified, absolutely not, but also does not taint my eyes with some nostalgia. Pre server merge 8v8 ranked was struggling, and yes there was a stretch after server merges when the pvp population was alive, but that didnt last. Further the was so much open win trading going on in ranked it was disgusting. Go google "swtor win trading" and you get tons of hits from 2012 - 2015 from Devs and content creators. There were boat loads of temporary and permanent bans. Call me a cynic but there is your population decrease of ranked players and combine that with BW lack of interest or ability to proper resolve win trading. In the end it was easier to can the modus. You play SWtoR because you love/like SW and not because it has some great end game - PVE/PVP. There are tons of games that have way more competitive PvP than SWtoR. MMOs and their respective modus live and die by their population. And right now the majority of SWtoRs casual player base has zero incentive to queue for PvP. Those that dip their toe dont hang around to get better whether that is because its not rewarded compared to other modus or whether no body enjoys getting stomped. Dont assume i am saying this because i cant take the heat. If you played at launch you would have had the opportunity to enjoy getting chain stun locked until death. Or even better, back then the matches were lvl 1-50 and the 50 in pvp gear was untouchable and could solo 4-5 guys lvl20-30. Or when "smash" was all the rage and you would literally have 10 jugs/guard in single match because it was the OP flavour of the month.

While I play the game almost every day i dont come here daily. I disagree with most of your points and for me the argumentation is flawed. SWtoR is a casual game for casual players - there is no argument here. Go look through the history of the game to see the damage done catering to "hard core crowd" specifically PVE / Raid crowd, but not exclusively. Acknowledged by players & devs. The "hard core" pvp guilds left the game not because 8v8 ranked was removed, because there was no population to sustain 8v8 ranked - which was the reason the modus was disabled. The same 4-5 groups playing each other again and again. Remember fleet spam asking to queue ranked? Still happening. Stop trying to make it happen. I dont have a magic wand, but for me pre mades do not belong in unranked. Not trying to brush all pre mades with the same stroke, but those pre mades that normally play ranked and come into unranked are most of the time toxic. Non arena unranked is about objective based game play and time and time again you can see the premades there to farm kills and nothing more. That does NOT encourage more players to try out PvP . All the while when the mode itself is already not as rewarding vs other game modes - loot / conquest etc. It does NOT encourage casual players to stick with it and get better. the immediate fix would be to enable solo queue only for unranked and then look at how objective based game play is rewarded before bringing back group queue.

I am going to shout it from the roof tops until the cows come home. You should never allow premade to queue against solo players. It’s a disease in every game that allows it and discourages casual and solo players from playing PvP modus’ First, easiest and most impactful change would be to remove group queue from non ranked pvp. Anyone saying that’s unfair and I like to play with my friends blah blah can play group ranked. If you or your friends are not competitive in ranked then its not about playing with friends its about having easy wins or padding stats. Secondly, brings rewards at least in line with GSF And mid term look at how you can properly encourage and reward objective based game play to encourage competitive environment

Quick disclaimer, played since launch, solo queuing most of the time. But it doesnt matter whether i am long time player or not. PVP is broken, has been for a long time and since further changes made in 6.1 taking another turn for the worse. The solo queue vs. pre made is not unique to SWtoR and unless your population is healthy enough that you can have separate queues the only option apart from "suck it up solo queuer" is to only allow solo queuing. Everything else is just fluff and usually ends up in arguments like "find friends to queue with" or "L2P" or whatever. All this wouldn't be as bad if you rewards for PVP weren't so far behind other modes and you were not punished for loosing. It is not the solo queuers fault that match making put him/her up against pre made and the match is 99% of the time a loss before it starts. Daily and weekly rewards are terrible compared to GSF and PVE At 306 rating majority of gear rewards out of PVP boxes is 300-304 ?!?! and now further penailized by only wins count. Result? i used to PVP almost every day a few hours across diff toons and now i can often not be bothered at all. I play the game now only a few days week and if it continues then whats the point of keeping the sub running.

quick disclaimer, played on and off since launch. currently rank 90 valour. Not that this give my opinion more or less weight, just for context. All valour earned solo queuing non ranked. I took a break after 6.1 (or 6.0) and am disgusted with the "only wins" count for any daily / weekly quest progress. Who thought this was a good idea? And "if the pvp" was its own reward then why does the pvp community constantly beg on fleet for people to queue. Match making is already broken and now feels like solo queueing is constantly punished and feels like going against pre made or by luck competent players no stop is disheartening.. 8 matches in a row - 0 wins. 10-15 medals each game Result. got my conquest through other means. Done with PVP for the week. I dont think that was the desired outcome

Just adding my voice. I am 306 on 2 toons and have not gotten a single item that was not well below my gear lvl from PvP crates. If nothing else, there needs to be a considerable increase in tech fragments for PvP matches, losses AND (!) wins

^ This, a thousand times this. If you subbed for the whole time from announcement to chapter 16 release to get all the goodies (reskinned junk ...) you spend a $100. Now ask yourself was that a good choice .... While some of the chapters where entertaining many where not and the chapter 16 annoyed me like many others. My main is a BH, nice seeing the effort to shoehorn me into a LS Jedi story. That AND the fact that there is literally zero replay value lead me to cancelling my sub for now. That is my choice. Unless I get a reason from BW to actually sub and a value from doing so then I will otherwise I wont. Especially in an MMO replay value is important its non existent here. Endless corridors of the same design. Two new enemies in a few variants. A story that only really fits one of eight classes - no thanks. Revan was a much better expansion, for all the right reasons.

google your favourite data mining website and PT AP has been nerfed. and lets be honest, its overdue and warranted

I don't have any issues with what was presented and I am subbing and will stay subbed. But everything they showed was/is a sub incentive going forward and not like all the announcements implied (!) sub reward. OP is a sub since launch and thought he was going to get some shinies and was disappointed and now its tears all over. Quick disclaimer, I am sub since launch and while I would like some form of reward program (exclusive decorations / mounts etc) that gives some stuff retroactively I don't expect to see and certainly wont be like OP here.

Sorry, but that's pretty weak and a nice bit of entitlement going on this post. The gripe here should NOT be with the content provided, but with the wording used by BW Marketing in the lead up to yesterdays reveal They presented Subscriber Incentives which do NOT equal Subscriber Rewards. But the wording they used lead a lot of long time subs anticipate something they didn't get. That's the only thing that went wrong here

Just going to say it again The gripe here should NOT be with the content provided, but with the wording used by BW Marketing in the lead up to yesterdays reveal They presented Subscriber Incentives which do NOT equal Subscriber Rewards. But the wording they used lead a lot of long time subs anticipate something they didn't get. That's the only thing that went wrong here

There is quite a bit of entitlement going on this thread. I think the gripe here should NOT be with the content provided, but with the wording used by BW Marketing in the lead up to yesterdays reveal They presented Subscriber Incentives which do NOT equal Subscriber Rewards. But the wording they used lead a lot of long time subs anticipate something they didn't get. That's the only thing that went wrong here.