For players who feel 4.0 was too easy

[YankeeDelta]

I have a question for players who felt 4.0 was too easy because their Companions felt overpowered.

 

Given that you had an entire bar full of companion abilities, all of which can be individually toggled on or off, why not simply toggle off different companion abilities until you reached a level of companion strength that felt right for you?

 

Why the need to force a change on all players when Bioware had already given you the ability to customize your experience to your preference?

[Razamatazz]

... Ultimately, this decision came down to our own goals for Companions, along with data on how they were performing. What we saw in those instances is that Companions, simply put, were just way too good. Their healing and damage output could be greater than that of a very skilled player with a fully maximized character. In order for you to understand why we are making these changes, we thought it best to explain our goals for Companions in Fallen Empire...

[maidelken]

I have a question for players who felt 4.0 was too easy because their Companions felt overpowered.

 

Given that you had an entire bar full of companion abilities, all of which can be individually toggled on or off, why not simply toggle off different companion abilities until you reached a level of companion strength that felt right for you?

 

Why the need to force a change on all players when Bioware had already given you the ability to customize your experience to your preference?

 

Because you would get to a point where you couldnt proceed with the game - you are then left with two choices - carry on and try and get better, or put some abilities back.

 

A self nerf doesnt work because when you hit a problem you dont know if you just made it impossible, or if you are just screwing up, whereas when the game difficulty is set by the designer you know if you cant do it, its because you are doing it wrong.

[YankeeDelta]

Because you would get to a point where you couldnt proceed with the game - you are then left with two choices - carry on and try and get better, or put some abilities back.

 

A self nerf doesnt work because when you hit a problem you dont know if you just made it impossible, or if you are just screwing up, whereas when the game difficulty is set by the designer you know if you cant do it, its because you are doing it wrong.

 

It's an interesting argument, although I don't recall a single post in these forums where players were encountering the problem you described.

 

After all, we're not talking about end game raid content here, since companions are entirely irrelevant to that equation.

 

So you are saying that in H2 content, a player who had de-toggled several companion abilities to get the difficulty just right for themselves, could encounter H2 content that was now too difficult. Their dilemma would then be wondering whether their play was poor or whether they should re-toggle one of their companion's disabled abilities?

 

Didn't they have the same problem pre 4.0 when they were forced to group for said content? When encountering difficulties in a H2, how could they determine if the problem was their poor play or one of their teammates poor play? How could they tell if they were playing well, or if they simply had an awesome teammate?

 

Honestly, I think this explanation is reaching just a bit, and would seem an odd justification for making changes that would affect the play of so many other players.

[TUXs]

Because they wanted YOU to struggle...so you knew how great they were, that way when you asked for help, they could belittle you and tell you to L2P.

[maidelken]

It's an interesting argument, although I don't recall a single post in these forums where players were encountering the problem you described.

 

After all, we're not talking about end game raid content here, since companions are entirely irrelevant to that equation.

 

So you are saying that in H2 content, a player who had de-toggled several companion abilities to get the difficulty just right for themselves, could encounter H2 content that was now too difficult. Their dilemma would then be wondering whether their play was poor or whether they should re-toggle one of their companion's disabled abilities?

 

Didn't they have the same problem pre 4.0 when they were forced to group for said content? When encountering difficulties in a H2, how could they determine if the problem was their poor play or one of their teammates poor play? How could they tell if they were playing well, or if they simply had an awesome teammate?

 

Honestly, I think this explanation is reaching just a bit, and would seem an odd justification for making changes that would affect the play of so many other players.

 

 

Check my posting history - I have said that exactly about 10 times now pre the nerf.

 

Its not odd in the slightest - the game designers create the game and set the difficulty for everyone. The game was completely possible pre 4.0 and many 1000s of people did the heroics before 4.0 solo (with their companion).

 

After the update it became MUCH easier and everyone was doing it afk. This was not the intention of the developers, some content is supposed to be more difficult than others, thats the whole point of leveling up and getting more gear, so you can do the more difficult content.

 

When the game developers set he content difficulty its supposed to be that people can complete it. Now I know that pre 4.0 and post 4.0 I cannot do any of the game without my companion (ok I can kill trash, but thats about it). Now disabling abilities is the same thing as dismissing the companion - its a self nerf.

 

At which point do I know that I am just banging my head against the wall trying to do something impossible (because companions are part of the construction of the game) and when I just havent worked it out. Pre 4.0 I came across a group of sith on my consular story and I wiped about 10 times trying to kill them, until I found out I have a stun that I wasnt using and suddenly it became simple.

 

Now If had self-nerfed myself and kept wiping, at what point do I give up - 2 tries? 10 tries? 20 tries? I dont ever know if what I am trying is possible.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Why should I jump through hoops to make a game enjoyable. if it's not enjoyable the way it was made then I'll stop playing before jumping through hoops. If the only work around to make the game enjoyable for people is something like that then it's a poorly made game. As a customer we have the right to point out things that don't work and ask for a change. They did just that. Stop getting mad at us. Ultimately this issue would have never happened if Bioware did better testing and didn't allow the expansion to go out with the poorly scaled companions. Now they are trying to close the Pandora's box they've opened.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

Because they wanted YOU to struggle...so you knew how great they were, that way when you asked for help, they could belittle you and tell you to L2P.

 

Yeah that's it. You caught us.

 

I want everyone to enjoy the game, that's why I've posted a suggestion thread for giving us the ability to set the skill level of our companions manually using existing stats like presence and influence. This isn't some conspiracy to ruin the game for you and know it.

[YankeeDelta]

Why should I jump through hoops to make a game enjoyable. if it's not enjoyable the way it was made then I'll stop playing before jumping through hoops.

 

So you have no problem with learning your class, abilities, and rotations, and you keep at challenging fights through as many wipes as necessary to learn the mechanics of the encounter.

 

But toggling off a companion power or two is simply an unreasonable design and too much to ask of anyone?

[Bobs_YourUncle]

I have a question for players who felt 4.0 was too easy because their Companions felt overpowered.

 

Given that you had an entire bar full of companion abilities, all of which can be individually toggled on or off, why not simply toggle off different companion abilities until you reached a level of companion strength that felt right for you?

 

Why the need to force a change on all players when Bioware had already given you the ability to customize your experience to your preference?

 

Players who felt 4.0 (even 3.0 in my case) was too easy does not mean they advocated nerfing companions. The only thing I've ever posted here requesting was that the boss fights gave me a chance to die, such as the solo revan fight, as well as the solo FPs. I'm primarily a solo player, but that doesn't mean I don't prefer some amount of challenge. You are right, I could have removed all my armor and chose to only use fists and half my skills, no defenses or whatever. In regard to that stuff, I'd guess the god driod and alliance helpers would have carried me anyways. I'm ok with the nerf to companions so far, just about the right amount of challenge for me, but I don't recall ever posting asking them to nerf companions, just agreeing they were ridiculously powerful. It was almost as bad as having each companion be the god droid or your alliance helpers with revan. For me, it simply boils down to playing while its fun, moving on once its not, but I still like discussing things on the forums too. I don't think I've made a single "change this or I'm leaving" thread. The game was fun with the OP companions, god droid, and easy revan solo fight, the game is still fun now, for me, which is all I really care about in regard to spending my leisure time.

[YankeeDelta]

Check my posting history - I have said that exactly about 10 times now pre the nerf.

 

Its not odd in the slightest - the game designers create the game and set the difficulty for everyone. The game was completely possible pre 4.0 and many 1000s of people did the heroics before 4.0 solo (with their companion).

 

After the update it became MUCH easier and everyone was doing it afk. This was not the intention of the developers, some content is supposed to be more difficult than others, thats the whole point of leveling up and getting more gear, so you can do the more difficult content.

 

When the game developers set he content difficulty its supposed to be that people can complete it. Now I know that pre 4.0 and post 4.0 I cannot do any of the game without my companion (ok I can kill trash, but thats about it). Now disabling abilities is the same thing as dismissing the companion - its a self nerf.

 

At which point do I know that I am just banging my head against the wall trying to do something impossible (because companions are part of the construction of the game) and when I just havent worked it out. Pre 4.0 I came across a group of sith on my consular story and I wiped about 10 times trying to kill them, until I found out I have a stun that I wasnt using and suddenly it became simple.

 

Now If had self-nerfed myself and kept wiping, at what point do I give up - 2 tries? 10 tries? 20 tries? I dont ever know if what I am trying is possible.

 

Sorry, but I'm still not buying your argument, especially since the devs have stated which content should be soloable and which content should not.

 

After all, even with the nerf in place, at what point would you give up when you face content you can't immediately beat? 2 tries? 10 tries? 20 tries? What if you could have beat it in 21 tries, or 101 tries, or 1001 tries? You still don't know, and you would still have to rely on the developer's statements to determine which content you should be able to solo.

[xxHellsmokexx]

I have a question for players who felt 4.0 was too easy because their Companions felt overpowered.

 

Given that you had an entire bar full of companion abilities, all of which can be individually toggled on or off, why not simply toggle off different companion abilities until you reached a level of companion strength that felt right for you?

 

Why the need to force a change on all players when Bioware had already given you the ability to customize your experience to your preference?

 

Because they want you to play with them., they want to feel needed so that they can show you what 5 years of having no live can give you in a video game. They don't want you running around having fun by yourself lol.

 

The same people yelling about a "challenge" are the people who will use an exploit of hacks lol so that they can get ahead and show off about how "leet" they are. They are trolls in everything they do in life and they need attention somewhere. If everyone has their companions that actually work people will have the KOTOR 3 they asked for more or less and these pathetic trolls are left sitting on the sideline with their coolness lol.

 

It's to force grouping and open up more doors to troll. The pvpers were crying that they couldn't gank people lol. Their life is useless without the chance to piss someone off as if that makes them cool, just makes people hate you and not want to be around you imo.

[Viraxis]

I have a question for players who felt 4.0 was too easy because their Companions felt overpowered.

 

Given that you had an entire bar full of companion abilities, all of which can be individually toggled on or off, why not simply toggle off different companion abilities until you reached a level of companion strength that felt right for you?

 

Why the need to force a change on all players when Bioware had already given you the ability to customize your experience to your preference?

 

Your question I believe is based on the belief that BW changed the companions because some people complained things were too easy. They changed them because their metrics showed it was too easy. They have targets they want for things. They will tweak until they meet those targets. I do believe they did nerf too hard. I will not be surprised if they give a little power back to them as they hone in on their targets.

[xxHellsmokexx]

Why should I jump through hoops to make a game enjoyable. if it's not enjoyable the way it was made then I'll stop playing before jumping through hoops. If the only work around to make the game enjoyable for people is something like that then it's a poorly made game. As a customer we have the right to point out things that don't work and ask for a change. They did just that. Stop getting mad at us. Ultimately this issue would have never happened if Bioware did better testing and didn't allow the expansion to go out with the poorly scaled companions. Now they are trying to close the Pandora's box they've opened.

 

I do get mad at you and the rest of your kind and will exclude you in any and all activities in the game. You got your "challenge" so enjoy it and hope others don't think like I do because then it will become even more challenging playing alone.

[maidelken]

Sorry, but I'm still not buying your argument, especially since the devs have stated which content should be soloable and which content should not.

 

After all, even with the nerf in place, at what point would you give up when you face content you can't immediately beat? 2 tries? 10 tries? 20 tries? What if you could have beat it in 21 tries, or 101 tries, or 1001 tries? You still don't know, and you would still have to rely on the developer's statements to determine which content you should be able to solo.

 

 

Right. The devs have said which parts should be soloable WITH COMPANIONS. However you are advocating turning bits of them off, there is no where that tells you at which point things are impossible when you do that.

 

I don't understand what you have to 'buy' to understand this, the game is designed to work out of the box, it's not designed to have people randomly nerfing themselves, whys that so hard to comprehend?

[Jonfendm]

I have a question for players who felt 4.0 was too easy because their Companions felt overpowered.

 

Given that you had an entire bar full of companion abilities, all of which can be individually toggled on or off, why not simply toggle off different companion abilities until you reached a level of companion strength that felt right for you?

 

Why the need to force a change on all players when Bioware had already given you the ability to customize your experience to your preference?

 

I would counter that with a question to everyone who loved the faceroll easiness. Why would you not just learn your class, and use the tools that are at your disposal? I had literally zero trouble with heroics yesterday. Yes, I am a "raider" who is in some of the very best gear in the game, but as faceroll easy as KP and EV HMs are, the best in game gear is pretty radily available to ANYONE who wants it. I am completely befuddled by everyone who is complaining. Were there really that many people who think they shouldnt have to try to win at a game? Its a serious question. Has gaming changed to much, that people now WANT to be herded to the next encounter like cattle?

[xxHellsmokexx]

Right. The devs have said which parts should be soloable WITH COMPANIONS. However you are advocating turning bits of them off, there is no where that tells you at which point things are impossible when you do that.

 

I don't understand what you have to 'buy' to understand this, the game is designed to work out of the box, it's not designed to have people randomly nerfing themselves, whys that so hard to comprehend?

 

Why is it so hard to comprehend that with lvl sync and the broken companions, content takes much longer to complete. Content that we have repeated thousands of times and only do to grid cash in order to collect stuff. It's not fun or challenging, it's annoying.

[maidelken]

Why is it so hard to comprehend that with lvl sync and the broken companions, content takes much longer to complete. Content that we have repeated thousands of times and only do to grid cash in order to collect stuff. It's not fun or challenging, it's annoying.

 

 

But that's a totally different question. The first list asked why we couldn't self nerf, which I have answered.

 

The rest of that is a completely separate answer. One to which I don't have an answer because I don't have bioware metrics.

[Senkoau]

I would counter that with a question to everyone who loved the faceroll easiness. Why would you not just learn your class, and use the tools that are at your disposal? I had literally zero trouble with heroics yesterday. Yes, I am a "raider" who is in some of the very best gear in the game, but as faceroll easy as KP and EV HMs are, the best in game gear is pretty radily available to ANYONE who wants it. I am completely befuddled by everyone who is complaining. Were there really that many people who think they shouldnt have to try to win at a game? Its a serious question. Has gaming changed to much, that people now WANT to be herded to the next encounter like cattle?

 

I have planet drops and a companion at lvl 16 (highest one) with no legacy perks pre nerf I used the harder heroics to learn my class abilities as we both stayed up long enough to be a challenging fight. Post nerf I die in seconds so I have no fun, learn nothing and normal story content is useless for learning my class because they die in seconds even if I use basic attacks. For me the nerf has turned challenging but difficult content that I could use in learning my class to nearly impossible content I've on 2 occasions walked away from because of reasons (1 bugged, the other I just died on the last boss and couldn't face slogging through either again) and 1 occasions if someone hadn't actually helped I would have walked away from because it was literally impossible for me to complete at that point.

 

I've just been doing the planetary content one planet at a time, I shouldn't NEED the best gear in the game to do level appropriate content and if I do then there's something very, very wrong with that game.

[Jonfendm]

I do get mad at you and the rest of your kind and will exclude you in any and all activities in the game. You got your "challenge" so enjoy it and hope others don't think like I do because then it will become even more challenging playing alone.

 

This post is hilarious. Not because it is inaccurate, but because you correctly identified metrics. When they made no new raid content, the very same people here who were defending metrics when the decision was made to focus on story are now complaining about their metrics that told Bioware that everything was faceroll easy and needed to change.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Jonfendm

[Jonfendm]

This post is hilarious. Not because it is inaccurate, but because you correctly identified metrics. When they made no new raid content, the very same people here who were defending metrics when the decision was made to focus on story are now complaining about their metrics that told Bioware that everything was faceroll easy and needed to change.

 

 

Dont use planet drops. You get easily enough glowing crystals to keep leveling your gear to the appropriate blue level for the planet.

 

Also, unless I am mistaken, the planetary heroics , while leveling are STILL intended to be heroic 2+, meaning that soloing them is supposed to have a certain degree of difficulty.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Jonfendm

[YankeeDelta]

I would counter that with a question to everyone who loved the faceroll easiness. Why would you not just learn your class, and use the tools that are at your disposal? I had literally zero trouble with heroics yesterday. Yes, I am a "raider" who is in some of the very best gear in the game, but as faceroll easy as KP and EV HMs are, the best in game gear is pretty radily available to ANYONE who wants it. I am completely befuddled by everyone who is complaining. Were there really that many people who think they shouldnt have to try to win at a game? Its a serious question. Has gaming changed to much, that people now WANT to be herded to the next encounter like cattle?

 

So, to you, beating the content means that you are "winning" at the game. Fair enough.

 

What if other players don't want to "win" at the game, but do want to experience the storylines that Bioware is famous for?

[Jonfendm]

So, to you, beating the content means that you are "winning" at the game. Fair enough.

 

What if other players don't want to "win" at the game, but do want to experience the storylines that Bioware is famous for?

 

Its not about "beating" the game. The phrase is not, in any way,literal. The game is an MMO. MMO's have things that you can do solo. A great many things, in fact. It also has things that you should be grouped to do. This is not intended to be a solo player only game. Nor is it intended to be a group player only game. It really does look like, reading this forum, that there are a large number of people who seriously wanted to be able to go out to dinner while their companions cleared content. There are GOOD ways, and BAD ways to play a character (in regards to the when and what abilities you use), my response question was, why are so many people resistant to learning how to play their class? Heroics while leveling have ZERO to do with story. They were put in the game to introduce people to group content. You do not need them to see the beautiful story. They, in fact, add ZERO to the story.

[Jadescythe]

So, to you, beating the content means that you are "winning" at the game. Fair enough.

 

What if other players don't want to "win" at the game, but do want to experience the storylines that Bioware is famous for?

 

I wasn't aware that story content was proving too difficult for players now. I ran through Coruscant on my Sentinel leveling last night and never dropped below 90% health at any time. That included all 4 heroics.

 

The complaints are coming from those who wanted to solo the harder solo content like heroic SF, not people failing to beat their class quests. And if you are having issues with your class quest at the current difficulty, it really is a L2P issue.

[Brutal]

I have a question for players who felt 4.0 was too easy because their Companions felt overpowered.

 

Given that you had an entire bar full of companion abilities, all of which can be individually toggled on or off, why not simply toggle off different companion abilities until you reached a level of companion strength that felt right for you?

 

Why the need to force a change on all players when Bioware had already given you the ability to customize your experience to your preference?

 

why not learn to play the game rotation get to know your class and how to play it properly than no one will complain about nerf Wouldnt that be easier ?

Edited November 19, 2015 by Brutal