Soloed Heroic SF on my Mara, Still Think Nerf was too Harsh, Here's Why:

[Velgar]

Fully agree with the OP, you drive off the casual segment, the game suffers due to less income and resources going forward. H2s as the new rep grind should be pretty fast to complete given how many you have to do to max our your alliance. You should not have to group to do your rep grind even if you are on a low presence 65 with only one toon having finished a class story, low influence on companion and quest greens.

 

The rep grind was already so grinding prior to 4.0.2 that I had parked 7 of my 8 toons. Not going through that many H2s on that many characters. Mind numbing boredom. And not at all fun after a while, even with a so called god mode companion speeding it up. I was not afking it, I know my rotations and was using them, good practice even if it is not necessary but that is just me. Far too much of a time sink. Slow it down by nerfing companions and that time sink just became a deal breaker for me. Sub runs out in a month and likely moving on after being here since beta. Loved the story part of KoTFE, but not the alliance grind. It went overboard, if it was shorter and more reasonable I would have done it on multiple toons.

 

Having game breaking bugs that I have reported not be addressed in this nerf patch did not improve my mood. My toon is locked into the group mode for Star Fortress. Did it one on hard with a guildie, now I cannot switch it back. The guy will not talk to me, menu to switch it will not pop up. Stuck, cannot switch to solo mode to farm stuff. GM said reset instance, there is not instance to reset on the pulldown menu. And Scorpio is missing on another toon that I got through Chapter 9 before parking due to excessive grind.

[Aaramis]

We need to think up a newer word to describe the non-hardcore folk, because non-raiders can still be running around in 216/220 gear. The only difference is, they won't have the set bonuses, since those only come from OPs. But the dps difference won't be *that* big between them. It doesn't mean their level of skill or capability to do stuff is any less.

 

I'm a casual, having not had the time to actively raid since....TFB operation era, I'd estimate. But I can still slaughter most anything I come across.

 

As for the companion issue - I'd have to agree with you that the nerf was a bit too harsh, but I found it to be the new lack of *BURST* healing on companions that really makes this the problem.

Previously, you hop down that first shaft, take ~16k damage, and your companion would insta-heal you for that amount. So any mobs hitting for less than that were a cakewalk.

 

Now, that companion will heal you for maybe ~6k, with a HoT for 1-2k per tick afterwards. For Knights, Paladins, and so on that will hit harder, the healing simply won't keep up, and people are going to struggle.

For those of us that have been around since forever, we know the ins and outs of our classes well enough to time our defensive CDs, pop medpacs, and even kite if need be, but the newer players may not be as adept and will get slaughtered.

 

KOTFE attracted a lot of newer players, but I fear this change will drive them off. Nothing makes people walk away from a game faster than having a level of fun instantly and irrevocably taken away from you.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Aaramis

[Ferretfur]

I agree with the OP, a healthy population makes for a healthy game

 

That said, I don't necessarily agree that the companions have been nerfed too much. I waltzed through all of the dailies and weeklies yesterday with no problems and my lvl 25 Lana coped admirably.

 

Admittedly I haven't tried Star Fortress yet and I read that a lot of people are having difficulty with it now, so maybe its just a case of adjusting the difficulty of that rather than buffing companions again?

 

Part of the problem is that companions after the nerf are not as good as they were before 4.0 came about if you had them in Yavin gear or better. They shouldn't have got to the point of being worse than before the expansion.

 

I think your class makes a lot of difference to, as I found it a lot easier on the weekly heroics with my DPS Sage than I did with my DPS Merc who almost actually got toasted on a H2 on Taris.

[Ferretfur]

Stuck, cannot switch to solo mode to farm stuff. GM said reset instance, there is not instance to reset on the pulldown menu. And Scorpio is missing on another toon that I got through Chapter 9 before parking due to excessive grind.

 

Right mouse click on your character icon and an option to "reset phase" should be available. Select this and you should be okay. It is not on the log menu.

[Shaji]

I think the biggest problem (and reason why there is such negative feedback on this matter) is not that companions have been nerfed that much, but the way it was done.

 

Its like giving a brand new ferrari to some 18y old teenager and taking it away 2 weeks after..

replacing it with a bike...

without saying a word...

ever.

 

Thats pretty much what happened here. Teenage boy can not be argued with because he is angry and whoever gave him the car in the first place will appear either weak or just incapable if they reverse what they did.

 

The only thing i dont understand is why it was done this way in the first place the way they did it.

If companions were performing too well in instances - implement some scaling to prevent them to perform as well as they did.

If scaling was way off before and they did perform much better than intended - tell the player they have to be adjusted until they are fine.

If people were doing dailys and leveling faster than expected - instead of taking more time to do this they simply stop doing this.

 

And last but not least, if they did not want people running SF(H) the way they did just change rewards and implement some debuff (clickable before entering the first room).

Do it the usual way - standart loot as it is now.

Click this and your companion will be healing 25, 50, 75% per but you increase your chances of getting (different) loot at the end.

 

Now this looks like a little bit of work, but would have been much easier than dealing with this fallout.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Shaji

[BomarrOrder]

Agreed 100%

 

My wife is definitely what I'd consider a "casual". She really has no interest in reading class guides, optimizing stats, farming the best gear, optimizing rotations..etc. She doesn't care about the "challenge". She plays because she loves Star Wars and wants to experience the story and have "fun". When 4.0 dropped she subscribed back up immediately (she hasn't been subscribed since the game originally came out). She no longer had to slog through endless trash mobs, having to stop and heal between each fight, slowly grinding away... She could just...play and enjoy the story. Why does the hardcore crowd feel like is unacceptable? She has now lost interest in playing.

 

We'll definitely be keeping an eye on future patches though. I don't expect companions to come back to the levels they were at in 4.0, but a halfway point would be acceptable.

[Ruskaeth]

BioWare, let them have it? Okay?

[Strydon]

So, I was blasting through SF pre-nerf, without a care in the world. Got the One and Only achieve with lvl10 Lana and crap gear. It was probably way too easy for what should probably be considered an upper tier solo accomplishment.

 

So I went in post-nerf with slightly better gear and a Lvl39 Lana. Still waltzed through the instance till reactor3. Tried doing it the old lazy way, got owned.

Changed up strat, still got owned. Changed up strat 4 more times, took six attempts, but found what worked, job done. Went on to Exarch boss, killed in first attempt. So, you probably expect me to spout some "Hurr Durr L2P or ****" type nonsense, but I won't, here's why:

 

Casuals make up the majority of the playerbase in SWTOR, and if you drive them away it will stifle not only the development, but also the ongoing health of the game. Let me extrapolate:

 

SWTOR is popular primarily because of the Star Wars license. If you ask 10 people why they play SWTOR, 9 will tell you "Because Star Wars duh." The vast majority of SWTOR's playerbase are not hardcore MMO junkies, in fact, a huge number of players never played an MMO before SWTOR. This is pretty unique in the industry, and underscores the important part that casuals play in the ongoing success of the game.

 

If you scare off the casuals with casual un-friendly changes(like the companion nerf), you run the risk of losing a huge amount of revenue. If SWTOR loses revenue, SWTOR's budget gets reduced. If the budget gets reduced, it means less content, less fixes, less voiceovers, less polish, less epicness, less everything. This affects everyone who plays the game, hardcore and casual alike.

 

Now, I'm not saying revert companions back to 4.0 levels, I'm just saying that the nerf should be adjusted to be less harsh. To make casuals feel less like they were Bait and Switched with a casual, story-centric KOTFE, only to be given a rude awakening with the nerf, and the silent treatment(so far) from BW when they complained about it. What's worse, is the amount of derogatory responses hurled at them by "hardcore" players when they expressed their displeasure with the changes.

 

So let's think about this objectively. We all pay the same subscription fee, we all pay the same amount for Cartel Coins. My opinion and preferences aren't any more or less valid than anyone else's. My definition of "Fun", may not be the same as everyone else's. Let's not forget that, and let's not alienate a huge part of the playerbase just to appease a tiny percentage of players(even if I'm one of those players).

 

Let's just be reasonable, and hope for a reasonable adjustment to the nerf. I think the future health of the game may in some ways depend on it.

 

Perfectly Said. Agree completely +1

[papragu]

So, I was blasting through SF pre-nerf, without a care in the world. Got the One and Only achieve with lvl10 Lana and crap gear. It was probably way too easy for what should probably be considered an upper tier solo accomplishment.

 

So I went in post-nerf with slightly better gear and a Lvl39 Lana. Still waltzed through the instance till reactor3. Tried doing it the old lazy way, got owned.

Changed up strat, still got owned. Changed up strat 4 more times, took six attempts, but found what worked, job done. Went on to Exarch boss, killed in first attempt. So, you probably expect me to spout some "Hurr Durr L2P or ****" type nonsense, but I won't, here's why:

 

Casuals make up the majority of the playerbase in SWTOR, and if you drive them away it will stifle not only the development, but also the ongoing health of the game. Let me extrapolate:

 

SWTOR is popular primarily because of the Star Wars license. If you ask 10 people why they play SWTOR, 9 will tell you "Because Star Wars duh." The vast majority of SWTOR's playerbase are not hardcore MMO junkies, in fact, a huge number of players never played an MMO before SWTOR. This is pretty unique in the industry, and underscores the important part that casuals play in the ongoing success of the game.

 

If you scare off the casuals with casual un-friendly changes(like the companion nerf), you run the risk of losing a huge amount of revenue. If SWTOR loses revenue, SWTOR's budget gets reduced. If the budget gets reduced, it means less content, less fixes, less voiceovers, less polish, less epicness, less everything. This affects everyone who plays the game, hardcore and casual alike.

 

Now, I'm not saying revert companions back to 4.0 levels, I'm just saying that the nerf should be adjusted to be less harsh. To make casuals feel less like they were Bait and Switched with a casual, story-centric KOTFE, only to be given a rude awakening with the nerf, and the silent treatment(so far) from BW when they complained about it. What's worse, is the amount of derogatory responses hurled at them by "hardcore" players when they expressed their displeasure with the changes.

 

So let's think about this objectively. We all pay the same subscription fee, we all pay the same amount for Cartel Coins. My opinion and preferences aren't any more or less valid than anyone else's. My definition of "Fun", may not be the same as everyone else's. Let's not forget that, and let's not alienate a huge part of the playerbase just to appease a tiny percentage of players(even if I'm one of those players).

 

Let's just be reasonable, and hope for a reasonable adjustment to the nerf. I think the future health of the game may in some ways depend on it.

 

You know the point here is the SF Heroics +2 not that crappy solo FP for the SF. A level 30 could do the solo FP.

[Twortas]

I really hope the one post BW reads in this forum debacle is the OP.

 

That said i doubt we'll see anything posted on this subject this week, which annoys me more than the nerf for some reason

[Strydon]

You know the point here is the SF Heroics +2 not that crappy solo FP for the SF. A level 30 could do the solo FP.

 

I think that's what he is talking about. you only get 'the one and only' title through the heroic +2

[solyss]

Perfectly Said. Agree completely +1

 

I also agree. This horrible attitude towards the community is going to drive away player base. Vilifying a player because they haven't player since beta or don't have all the right "cheevos" (I hate each one of you that use that term) will be bad for the future of the game. I want more players to join its what make a community fun.

[SGMRock]

I agree with the OP, a healthy population makes for a healthy game

 

That said, I don't necessarily agree that the companions have been nerfed too much. I waltzed through all of the dailies and weeklies yesterday with no problems and my lvl 25 Lana coped admirably.

 

Admittedly I haven't tried Star Fortress yet and I read that a lot of people are having difficulty with it now, so maybe its just a case of adjusting the difficulty of that rather than buffing companions again?

 

Or maybe they should change the level sync so that you are actually the level of the mobs you are fighting and not 2 or 3 levels higher. I mean the level sync for the starter planet is like 12 when before you were expected to finish that starter planet around level 8 to level 10.

[Shirvington]

There is nothing in this game that is difficult for the solo player except for maybe "The One and Only" Achieve. All other solo content and H2 content is super easy.

 

I'm not sure how people are saying now that the leveling experience is crushingly slow now (did anyone try leveling a toon 1-50 in 1.0? You actually had to do daily pve space missions on top of every class, planetary, and side quest to stay level appropriate.) Leveling in 4.0 with or without uber companions is still extremely fast. I took a premade 60 to 65 doing nothing but heroics in less than the time of a 3-hour exp bonus. I mean, c'mon.

 

Now people MIGHT have to use CC in heroics (slice droid, awe, whatever) instead of barreling in like a bull. Otherwise, the game is still perfectly playable and just as easy as it was pre-nerf.

[roldaugh]

Great post. I am an average player and was having difficulties with the Heroic Star Forges, sorry if it makes me terrible... I don't care about the achievements I just want to progress my story....

[SGMRock]

There is nothing in this game that is difficult for the solo player except for maybe "The One and Only" Achieve. All other solo content and H2 content is super easy.

 

I'm not sure how people are saying now that the leveling experience is crushingly slow now (did anyone try leveling a toon 1-50 in 1.0? You actually had to do daily pve space missions on top of every class, planetary, and side quest to stay level appropriate.) Leveling in 4.0 with or without uber companions is still extremely fast. I took a premade 60 to 65 doing nothing but heroics in less than the time of a 3-hour exp bonus. I mean, c'mon.

 

Now people MIGHT have to use CC in heroics (slice droid, awe, whatever) instead of barreling in like a bull. Otherwise, the game is still perfectly playable and just as easy as it was pre-nerf.

 

That is an exaggeration. If you did the space missions 1x through to just complete them all and you did the planet quest lines, the flashpoints for your levels on top of the class quests you stayed the right level no problem, in fact I found myself over leveling content all the time. I was legacy 50 in the first 10 months of the game, so I am very familiar with how it was. But like everything in life its all relative, that was then and this is now. People will only care about what have you done for me lately. Especially when they pay for a product.

[AnisaBadgett]

 

Casuals make up the majority of the playerbase in SWTOR, and if you drive them away it will stifle not only the development, but also the ongoing health of the game. Let me extrapolate:

 

SWTOR is popular primarily because of the Star Wars license. If you ask 10 people why they play SWTOR, 9 will tell you "Because Star Wars duh." The vast majority of SWTOR's playerbase are not hardcore MMO junkies, in fact, a huge number of players never played an MMO before SWTOR. This is pretty unique in the industry, and underscores the important part that casuals play in the ongoing success of the game.

 

If you scare off the casuals with casual un-friendly changes(like the companion nerf), you run the risk of losing a huge amount of revenue. If SWTOR loses revenue, SWTOR's budget gets reduced. If the budget gets reduced, it means less content, less fixes, less voiceovers, less polish, less epicness, less everything. This affects everyone who plays the game, hardcore and casual alike.

 

...snip...

 

Let's just be reasonable, and hope for a reasonable adjustment to the nerf. I think the future health of the game may in some ways depend on it.

 

Agree with you all the way, but these are the most important points. This is a very unique game and community. Let's not lose it.

[damonskye]

Agree with you all the way, but these are the most important points. This is a very unique game and community. Let's not lose it.

 

Agree completely... but it's not the player base that's doing this. It's the people in charge. Not just the nerf, not just the request for "feedback" when you know they're not going to pay one bit of attention... but also the complete radio silence for the past month as we played with what they apparently always felt like was a broken system.

 

I don't blame anyone like myself for complaining. I don't even blame the people who disagree with me/us, not even the ones who accuse us of whining. No, I blame the game designers and the community managers for their total lack of customer service.

[WorldSmasher]

This is what doesn't add up for me. Why does a casual player need to complete every single little thing in the game? I think a lot of people say they are casual, when really they are not. I see nothing wrong with having harder content that requires some work to get enough gear and enough skill to complete. If you can't admit that some content "may not be for you" and insist on completing it all guess what? You are not a casual.

 

I think, in the case of Star Fortresses, you can't progress to the next point of the story if you don't complete them (the side story, and possibly the main story is affected?).

 

At the very least, I'd like to finish the Star Fortress story line...

Edited November 19, 2015 by WorldSmasher

[OrumPotte]

Wait. I thought reasonable well thought out posts were not allowed on this forum !

[Shirvington]

I think, in the case of Star Fortresses, you can't progress to the next point of the story if you don't complete them (the side story, and possibly the main story is affected?).

 

At the very least, I'd like to finish the Star Fortress story line...

 

The Heroic SF can be done with another player, they don't have to be done solo to progress through the story. Grab someone from general or a guildie. Between 2 PCs and 2 companions, SF should be a breeze.

 

I have seen people recruiting on Odessen for Heroic SF, so I know it happens.

[ChaosIsGolden]

Nicely said OP, I really hope the Devs fix this sooner rather than later, because I'm pretty sure if they don't the game well evolve into SWG and die out, star wars title or not won't save it.

[Trashiah]

How dare you make me log in to say excellent post. This should be the first topic on the front page. Very clear concise post,

[Foxfirerose]

Excellent post, OP. I agree with you 100%, you really nailed it on all points.

[nakayo]

Great post. I am an average player and was having difficulties with the Heroic Star Forges, sorry if it makes me terrible... I don't care about the achievements I just want to progress my story....

 

Not singling you out in any way but I feel like it needs to be mentioned because it's oddly being omitted. [WEEKLY] Flashpoint: The Star Fortress can be completed with the non-heroic version. so as far as grinding the weekly do what's more time efficient.