Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[freeoftime]

I'm leveling a Jedi Knight in tank spec right now and played through Nar Shadda last night with Kira as dps. I'm still mowing everything down with only a bit more downtime between pulls. However, I do have Datacron Master and all but 3 classes through Chap 3.

 

I have the Legendary Player achievement thingy, though no Datacron Master (platforming in this game is horrible and I don't have the patience <.<). I didn't use the Heroic Moment because I *never* needed to even when soloing those Heroic *4*s. Companions, at least heal specced ones, are quite frankly worse than they were pre 4.0 and that's ridiculous. Tank stance still seems to be better and than it used to and DPS I admit I never tried in Heroics so idk how well they compare as much as with tank and heals.

[PallyHk]

Companions are fine now really.I solo completed star fortress last night just to test the nerf.Notice that I don't do raids,only pvp and few heroics per week.I was a combat sentinel with T-7 as companion,influence level 21.Only had 2 alliance specialists to level 10 so I had only 2 special abilities from them.My gear was 208 pvp gear with power crystals instead of expertise,full augmented.

 

The flashpoint is soloable even with pvp gear.My companion died once (oh the horror!!!) because I didn't pay attention at the start given how op companions were before.After that no problems at all.The difference is that now you have to use your defensive cd's and play the class properly.Use medpacks,adrenals (I did not use adrenals btw) AOE cc,even use heroic moment (it's there for a reason).

 

I won't even speak for the planetary heroics where your health never drops below 85% .

 

I call lying on you. There is no way you did that unless you are cheating with some kind of third party program.

If you said you did it with an Influence 50 companion I would have believed you.

 

But doing a heroic 2+ needs you to have 216 gear, influence 23 companion and use of all your 3 minute long Defensive cooldowns and heroics in the fight just to grind slowly through it.

 

The powerful companions were needed with level synch and heroic 2+ becoming the new replacement for SINGLE PLAYER DAILIES.

[Xtro]

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Correction... no they won't.

 

At influence 29 the Lana can not keep up healing and her tanking sucks (have not tried the DPS role yet since I am DPS my self).

 

As tank she no longer have enough aggro after patch (so much for increased aggro) and as healer she can not keep up with any real damage really. The reduced healing also affects her ability to tank as well, so as tank she is reduced both by reduced damage and reduced healing together with the ineffectiveness of the increased aggro.

 

I really feel for those poor people that have not got level 65 gear yet since they are one that will suffer the most from this nerf that went a bit overboard.

[Gallandaeus]

Ok folks, let's be rational about this here and calm down. You don't have to be gone or unsub due to being overly emotional, because I have been testing it now doing my usual stuff. Yes it's more challenging now and no they aren't op anymore but it's not NEARLY as bad as some are making it out to be! Some people just have to stop and settle down. Total overreaction because they want to justify to themselves it is what they thought it was going to be. A catastrophic utter madness of a nuclear nerf that will kill the game for them.

 

I have been doing my missions on Nar Shadda, Tatooine, Balmorra, like I have always had, except Aric isn't healing me for an absurd amount. But it's enough to keep me in fights to full or health bar just below 3 quarters, sometimes going into half even. It's not THAT drastic that some here are making it out to be. A total overreaction by some that is absolutely not needed. Yes, they do heal lower numbers and yes I do agree it was very fun having them be overpowered so you felt like superman and yes it takes longer to do things. But let's be honest here after 4.0 they WERE too strong, but the nerf is not completely crap like some are saying. BUT they didn't have to nerf it AS MUCH as they did. I'll agree with that.

 

We all knew the nerf was needed, and the amount can be debated until the end of time! But it does NOT "kill the game" or make it any less fun whatsoever! It's not AS bad as some are making it out to be so..what's the deal here?! I think you guys are overreacting just a little bit :eek:

 

When the game becomes as tedious as working a 9-5 job because farmable weekly heroics are slower? No thanks. And for solo players that's about all the content you're getting out of this expansion at the moment after the story is over. Before the nerf? Heroics were over with in a flash. Now? Takes way too long for me to care, especially considering they expect you to do this repeatable trash across multiple characters if you're a solo player. So no thanks; I can just spend my time in a better game with a developer team that actually knows how to communicate and test their content. This patch is a clear example of BioWare's incompetence and simply echoes what people have been saying for years.

[kerotomas]

My feedback in short: Subscription successfully cancelled, SW Battlefront is so much fun. Longer answer: Companions are pretty much useless now, even worse than pre-4.0. My marauder struggles in HC2s now, thanks to healing comps basically doing nothing, thanks for that LoL. I thought i stay and see how 4.0 works out and i liked the easier fights thanks to buffed companions, because combat is pretty garbage in swtor, but after this nerf, long and boring fights against trash came back, sorry i can't stand it coupled with the level sync.

[Pirindolo]

The people who were and are happy with the ridiculous nerf of the companions are the players that barely use them, cause they are busy doing NIM and HM ops mainly.

 

The people who were asking for a nerf and now are so happy with it were unable to toggle off some (or most of) the "OP" companion abilities, making their gameplay harder. No, instead they wanted to make things more difficult and more tedious for everyone.

 

Can any of those ppl say what was wrong with the "OP" companions? What was wrong, really? Weere their Nim or HM ops affected by it? Maybe the HM FP? Did they feel threatened by low skilled, casual players being able to do H2+ in a fast and comfortable way? Were they forced to use companions with all the abilities toggled on?

 

Can any of those ppl say what was wrong with the "OP" companions?

 

Sorry if I insist: Can any of those ppl say what was wrong with the "OP" companions?

[giorgo]

I call lying on you. There is no way you did that unless you are cheating with some kind of third party program.

If you said you did it with an Influence 50 companion I would have believed you.

 

But doing a heroic 2+ needs you to have 216 gear, influence 23 companion and use of all your 3 minute long Defensive cooldowns and heroics in the fight just to grind slowly through it.

 

The powerful companions were needed with level synch and heroic 2+ becoming the new replacement for SINGLE PLAYER DAILIES.

 

I use the third party program called brain!

[Pookan]

I use the third party program called brain!

 

Now go and complete HM Star Fortress as madness sorcerer/balance sage, smart one.

[Jadescythe]

When the game becomes as tedious as working a 9-5 job because farmable weekly heroics are slower? No thanks. And for solo players that's about all the content you're getting out of this expansion at the moment after the story is over. Before the nerf? Heroics were over with in a flash. Now? Takes way too long for me to care, especially considering they expect you to do this repeatable trash across multiple characters if you're a solo player. So no thanks; I can just spend my time in a better game with a developer team that actually knows how to communicate and test their content. This patch is a clear example of BioWare's incompetence and simply echoes what people have been saying for years.

 

I'm curious as to why the speed of the Heroics matters if it's all you have to do. Unless they reach the point of taking more time than you have to play in one sitting, I'm not sure what the issue is. You have a month and a half at least before you see any new story content, so it's not like you'll be short on time to get them all done.

[caronome]

Bye.

 

YMMV, but for me I want solo content that I can run with gear I can get, without huge grinds, solo (non-ops)

 

If I want to raid, I play WoW. If I wanted #HARDCORE, and I don't, I would play WildStar.

 

For most MMOs, but especially SWTOR, I think "more challenging" will be much more popular with the 1% of the population that post on forums than the "silent majority." Similarly, I suspect I want less challenge than the average dev.

 

---

 

For whatever reasons, Bioware is looking to have a smaller and more skilled customer base.

Could you at least put catch-up mechanisms in place so that if some of us want to return next summer/fall, it will not be too onerous to see the new story?

[Quraswren]

I'm curious as to why the speed of the Heroics matters if it's all you have to do. Unless they reach the point of taking more time than you have to play in one sitting, I'm not sure what the issue is. You have a month and a half at least before you see any new story content, so it's not like you'll be short on time to get them all done.

 

Because speed makes the grind a tolerable. At least you don't feel like your slogging though it. Sure, your wasting time no matter what but hell, lets not make it any more grindy than it needs to be.

 

At least before the nerf it was enjoyable and quick. A bit of a leisure activity you can do solo and have some fun with. Someone wants to makeit harder. Use one of those 22 companions that are lover level. Leave the rest to play it as it was - A fun, quick experince that brought some entertainment to a system of nothing but grind.

[Sephear]

I'm a bit lost on all the talk about grouping and solo playing and the "mmo" feeling.

 

Honestly I'm just curious to the mentioned "mmo" feeling thing here. I'm wondering if there is anywhere in the mmo manual that states that mmo's have to be played in a group consisting of another individual player?

 

I mean by all standards mmorpg does for all intents and purposes stand for Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

 

Now by my definition multiplayer to me and I emphasize, ME, does not mean that you have to play in a group. To me multiplayer simply states that there is more than one player. Technically if you want a game that is focused on the group play, you could label it more specifically as Massive multiplayer Coorporative role playing game.

 

Besides, personally, I don't think the companions were the issue. Correct me if I'm wrong here, I believe this companion nerf was brought upon us, due to some endgame healers being outhealed by companions. Ok I get that is a bit much, however if it is endgame based and a focus on the initial group play, why would you be using companions anyway. If it is in regards to flashpoints you could make a comprise which could be that tactical flashpoints, which I suppose, are intended for group players, then the companions will be unavailable during tactical flashpoints as well as operations.

 

So my point is, why can't mmo's be soloable and have group aspects in the game without group play having to be the center of the game, especially in a story driven game such as this?

[lord_wilczur]

I call lying on you. There is no way you did that unless you are cheating with some kind of third party program.

If you said you did it with an Influence 50 companion I would have believed you.

 

But doing a heroic 2+ needs you to have 216 gear, influence 23 companion and use of all your 3 minute long Defensive cooldowns and heroics in the fight just to grind slowly through it.

 

The powerful companions were needed with level synch and heroic 2+ becoming the new replacement for SINGLE PLAYER DAILIES.

 

http://oi67.tinypic.com/207oo6x.jpg

 

I bet you tell me that I photoshopped this.

Not completely augmented PVP gear (2018 expertise) with rank 22 companion healer, just about hour ago. Whole run took me about 35 minutes. I just did this to test myself. I really dislike repeateble PVE (never did an operation).

[Jadescythe]

Because speed makes the grind a tolerable. At least you don't feel like your slogging though it. Sure, your wasting time no matter what but hell, lets not make it any more grindy than it needs to be.

 

At least before the nerf it was enjoyable and quick. A bit of a leisure activity you can do solo and have some fun with. Someone wants to makeit harder. Use one of those 22 companions that are lover level. Leave the rest to play it as it was - A fun, quick experince that brought some entertainment to a system of nothing but grind.

 

Ok, this is obviously subjective. But I'm not sure why 2 quicker runs is any less grindy than 1 longer run. The one run I did felt like I actually accomplished something when I was done rather than spending 20 minutes just to spend 20 minutes.

[freeoftime]

I'm curious as to why the speed of the Heroics matters if it's all you have to do. Unless they reach the point of taking more time than you have to play in one sitting, I'm not sure what the issue is. You have a month and a half at least before you see any new story content, so it's not like you'll be short on time to get them all done.

 

For my part I'm annoyed because they're just not fun. The time I spent on them could be better used doing aomething that is, like playing another alt through the class stories or doing KotFE again, and considering that every toon taken through KotFE will have to do this grind yet again and it might actually have story repercussions later (like I hear ME3 had with needing to get points from the multiplayer).

 

I've complained about how the allaince system is badly designed before but if they just made the heroic grind even more tedious they've surpassed my expectations and made it worse.

 

(Though for the sake of full diclosure, did the same Heroic on my lightning Sorc I soloed all the Star Fortresses with pre Patch as I did on my lowbie Jugg with Lana at rank 39 and had no issue at all. Though I tested and I could do a group of 2 silvers and 1 gold with my companion dismissed, so that... doesn't seem to say much about how effective Lana was. Her heals were barely better than Quinns, in any case -- 20HP more despite having her over 30 ranks higher than him.)

[KJOhio]

I'm a bit lost on all the talk about grouping and solo playing and the "mmo" feeling.

 

Honestly I'm just curious to the mentioned "mmo" feeling thing here. I'm wondering if there is anywhere in the mmo manual that states that mmo's have to be played in a group consisting of another individual player?

 

I mean by all standards mmorpg does for all intents and purposes stand for Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

 

Now by my definition multiplayer to me and I emphasize, ME, does not mean that you have to play in a group. To me multiplayer simply states that there is more than one player. Technically if you want a game that is focused on the group play, you could label it more specifically as Massive multiplayer Coorporative role playing game.

 

Besides, personally, I don't think the companions were the issue. Correct me if I'm wrong here, I believe this companion nerf was brought upon us, due to some endgame healers being outhealed by companions. Ok I get that is a bit much, however if it is endgame based and a focus on the initial group play, why would you be using companions anyway. If it is in regards to flashpoints you could make a comprise which could be that tactical flashpoints, which I suppose, are intended for group players, then the companions will be unavailable during tactical flashpoints as well as operations.

 

So my point is, why can't mmo's be soloable and have group aspects in the game without group play having to be the center of the game, especially in a story driven game such as this?

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

The cries were from elitist jerks whose life is this game and they feel that everyone should be forced to group. Unfortunately, I play when I could and while I love grouping (lots of great people here in SWTOR), most times, I have 30 minutes or so free time. So, I was loving doing 1-2 H2+ missions solo. Now that is no longer fun.

 

I was mising gearing up my companions, and them having different roles like pre-4.0, but at leaast their healing was good. Now They have taken away everything that was fun with companions: gearing them, using different companions for different roles, their post-4.0 healing abilities.

 

I think the designers must be into S&M to make players like us suffer and laugh at us.

[PallyHk]

The people who were and are happy with the ridiculous nerf of the companions are the players that barely use them, cause they are busy doing NIM and HM ops mainly.

 

The people who were asking for a nerf and now are so happy with it were unable to toggle off some (or most of) the "OP" companion abilities, making their gameplay harder. No, instead they wanted to make things more difficult and more tedious for everyone.

 

Can any of those ppl say what was wrong with the "OP" companions? What was wrong, really? Weere their Nim or HM ops affected by it? Maybe the HM FP? Did they feel threatened by low skilled, casual players being able to do H2+ in a fast and comfortable way? Were they forced to use companions with all the abilities toggled on?

 

Can any of those ppl say what was wrong with the "OP" companions?

 

Sorry if I insist: Can any of those ppl say what was wrong with the "OP" companions?

 

Well said. The elitists could also just have put companions on Passive mode if it bothered them. Khem Val says, I'm on follow!

 

Of course, the real reason is that most of these elitist are horrible people and they take pleasure in seeing other's in trouble. They want something changed that never effected them because it will affect others badly.

 

Because speed makes the grind a tolerable. At least you don't feel like your slogging though it. Sure, your wasting time no matter what but hell, lets not make it any more grindy than it needs to be.

 

At least before the nerf it was enjoyable and quick. A bit of a leisure activity you can do solo and have some fun with. Someone wants to makeit harder. Use one of those 22 companions that are lover level. Leave the rest to play it as it was - A fun, quick experince that brought some entertainment to a system of nothing but grind.

 

Grinds are a generally boring MMO mechanic that Devs use to get more time to come up with fun content like story, ops, flashpoints and such.

The level synch was a lazy, classless attempt at recycling old content because BW devs are lazy, unskilled and generally like their job less than Al Bundy or Homer Simpson, and just want to sleep on the job.

 

Now with the powerful companions it was at least tolerable. It did not effect the end game, because companions can't deal with HM or Ops mechanics. They stay in the AOE, they don't time interrupts, etc.

So it did not effect the challanging part of the game at all.

 

Of course, elitists were yelling to ruin everybody else's fun, because it makes them happy. Most of them are rich people with a lot of time on their hands, so it doesn't bother them if they waste 6 hours a day doing heroic 2+. They got nothing else to do. Who would want to be around them? Friends ?

[Blurch]

I'm curious as to why the speed of the Heroics matters if it's all you have to do. Unless they reach the point of taking more time than you have to play in one sitting, I'm not sure what the issue is. You have a month and a half at least before you see any new story content, so it's not like you'll be short on time to get them all done.

 

You need to do the H2s to get crates to get alliance faction up. So now between the level sync and the companion nurf it take forever and a day to complete 1 H2, and when you don't have that much time to play speed is the key.

[Makillda]

I call lying on you. There is no way you did that unless you are cheating with some kind of third party program.

If you said you did it with an Influence 50 companion I would have believed you.

 

But doing a heroic 2+ needs you to have 216 gear, influence 23 companion and use of all your 3 minute long Defensive cooldowns and heroics in the fight just to grind slowly through it.

 

The powerful companions were needed with level synch and heroic 2+ becoming the new replacement for SINGLE PLAYER DAILIES.

 

Maybe he's better than you.

[The_Wulff]

I got a chance to play a neglected toon for the first time since 4.0 yesterday. I quit playing solo toons when the godpanions hit the game. With a group of real players you had some control of the difficulty just by the way you geared, with a companion you had no way to soften them up to let you get a few hits in. Mind you I only have 5 small presence datacrons open on my legacy and as soon as I saw how much stronger advancing companion stories was going to make all of my companions I stopped talking to them so only 4 had rank 10.

 

As what I figured was a fair test I took my toon who had just gotten off Koriban at lvl.14 directly to the heroic area for "Friends of Old".

I found:

Tank stance to be a bit softer but not squishy and could keep crowds attention

DPS output was still a bit high for my liking but in line with what a well geared real player would do at that level

Healing was what it is supposed to be. If I didn't "Leroy Jenkins" multiple mobs I was kept healed.

 

I don't know when people got the idea that playing a game should be an effortless diversion. From 4.0 to 4.0.1a SWTOR was a choose your own adventure book that you didn't even have to read, just make the choices. I want to thank you for this patch that once again makes SWTOR a game to be played.

[Savyl]

Hey folks,

 

If you haven’t yet seen the 4.0.2 patch notes, you can view them here. There are some patch notes that we wanted to highlight and talk about specifically.

 

• Companion base stats have been reduced.
  
• Companion damage and healing output has been reduced.
  

 

Some of you will certainly ask, why the need to nerf Companions? This is something that we definitely saw the community be divided on, and it was good for us to hear feedback from both sides. Ultimately, this decision came down to our own goals for Companions, along with data on how they were performing. What we saw in those instances is that Companions, simply put, were just way too good. Their healing and damage output could be greater than that of a very skilled player with a fully maximized character. In order for you to understand why we are making these changes, we thought it best to explain our goals for Companions in Fallen Empire.

 

In KotFE, with a large focus on going back to story, we wanted to make sure that all of our story content was accessible to all of our players. The power that Companions bring to the table, definitely played a part in that accessibility. Companions, from a combat perspective, should complement and provide support to your character, not overshadow them. However, in looking at how strong Companions are, we may have gone a bit too far in that direction. Simply put, while playing through much of the game, there are a lot of situations in regular combat where it is practically impossible for you to be killed if you have a healing Companion. Although this can be fun for a time, this wasn’t our goal. Companions should be strong, they should fill any role you need, but they should not make your actual gameplay be overshadowed by how strong they are.

 

So with 4.0.2 we have brought their effectiveness down quite a bit, let’s talk about some of the specifics here:

• There isn’t a flat % that healing was reduced by. Effectiveness reduction varies greatly depending on level, Influence, level sync, etc. That being said, the healer companions are still quite competitive, but they no longer trivialize content that was meant to be challenging.
  
• Healing power increase by Influence level has been increased. That means that as you scale up Influence levels with a Companion they will get more powerful per level than before. This helps to offset the base healing reduction a bit as you gain influence with your companion.
  

 

We did want to make some improvements to tanking Companions:

• We increased the threat generated by tank companions, so they should be able to hold the attention of enemy NPCs better than before.
  
• We fixed an issue involving the tank companion’s mass grapple ability, it will no longer pull in enemies that are out of combat.
  

 

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Thanks for the explanaton Eric. However, I disagree strongly. For my class a jedi dps sage my companion was perferct, NOT too strong. Was nice to not die all the time and now I'm back to dying Infact it's even worse than before the release of Fallen empire. I'm so frustrated right now Eric. I can barely do the heroics even though my companion is 50 and I have the defiant gear. Does this make sense to you Eric? Surely not. It's not fun to constantly die. I couldn't even do star fortress with another player, we couldn't make it past the sky trooper.. kept dying Eric. I'm sure there are soe ubber players who will say I am whining but I think that you nerfed the companions because you listened to the vocal minority instead of realizing that most players such as myself do not read forums nor even care to post until Something major like this ruins their game. I might be a whiny woman but Eric I'm on the verge of quitting this game because it's not fun to die all the time even playing low level content. Thanks to listen Eric.

[Jadescythe]

You need to do the H2s to get crates to get alliance faction up. So now between the level sync and the companion nurf it take forever and a day to complete 1 H2, and when you don't have that much time to play speed is the key.

 

I understand the desire to play solo as I do most of my non-raid content solo. But when I have done Heroics in groups, I've done them much faster and actually acquired more credits in the process. The options to speed up and ease the "grind" exist, players are simply choosing not to play that way. And I have no issue with that and am happy that players are able to play the way they want. But I wouldn't expect content designed for two people that can be completed by 1 player to be as fast and/or easy for that individual.

[Antareo]

I don't want long discussion. Played this game not so much time and returned to it in order to learn all great class journeys and expansions storylines. It was really great experience after KotFE release, and followers played good role in that. I was on midway on my trooper storyline yesterday. And it was a shock when I logged today to continue leveling him... I need to heal half hp to my character and his follower-HEALER after any significant fight. It slows down my leveling drastically and just annoying to press defense and cc abilities in regular questing situations.

Why to nerf so much? I don't know...

 

I've just canceled my subscription.

[Makillda]

Or maybe he is a lying troll like you are.

 

Look, just because you cannot do something doesn't mean others are incapable of accomplishing the same thing. Calling me a liar doesn't change that fact.

 

Stay classy.

[StarkHelsing]

I got a chance to play a neglected toon for the first time since 4.0 yesterday. I quit playing solo toons when the godpanions hit the game. With a group of real players you had some control of the difficulty just by the way you geared, with a companion you had no way to soften them up to let you get a few hits in. Mind you I only have 5 small presence datacrons open on my legacy and as soon as I saw how much stronger advancing companion stories was going to make all of my companions I stopped talking to them so only 4 had rank 10.

 

As what I figured was a fair test I took my toon who had just gotten off Koriban at lvl.14 directly to the heroic area for "Friends of Old".

I found:

Tank stance to be a bit softer but not squishy and could keep crowds attention

DPS output was still a bit high for my liking but in line with what a well geared real player would do at that level

Healing was what it is supposed to be. If I didn't "Leroy Jenkins" multiple mobs I was kept healed.

 

I don't know when people got the idea that playing a game should be an effortless diversion. From 4.0 to 4.0.1a SWTOR was a choose your own adventure book that you didn't even have to read, just make the choices. I want to thank you for this patch that once again makes SWTOR a game to be played.

 

Early heroics and content is easy, you didn't really need to rely so much on your companion. Granted people still wiped, especially the new of the new who have zero datacon buffs, etc.

 

It's the later content that hits hard. Belsavis + When it comes to Heroics are a pain. Don't even get me started on Star Fortress. Nothing like watching a level 38 approval companion's health plummet in SOLO mode as a tank. It's like they had zero armour and refused my heals due to germs. Thankfully, haven't died yet. Pulled them from the brink of death. Those Zakuul juggernauts don't mess around for no one.