Commando / Merc classes are utter sh*t for PvP

[PrincessShAmy]

mercs/commando's are good at pvp, i've seen loads of good players, stop complaining and learn the class

 

I am so tired of hearing people say that a particular class is not viable in PvP or PvE. The class is only as good as the person playing it. It is about how much time and energy a person is willing invest in that class.

[Jherad]

I did just fine without it when we didn't have it, and doing just fine again now that it's off my bar.

 

I could do 'just fine' taking rapid shots off my bar with the general state of pvp. But I'd still be silly to remove it, as it is a useful ability that improves my versatility.

 

Use what we have, but don't stop pushing for something better.

[lavatsunami]

I could do 'just fine' taking rapid shots off my bar with the general state of pvp. But I'd still be silly to remove it, as it is a useful ability that improves my versatility.

 

Use what we have, but don't stop pushing for something better.

 

I actually find most of the new moves added in 4.0 to be useless. Don't use holotraverse on my op either.

[LordTurin]

I actually find most of the new moves added in 4.0 to be useless. Don't use holotraverse on my op either.

 

If you don't use holotraverse in huttball on an op, you're doing it wrong :-D

[nzologic]

I am so tired of hearing people say that a particular class is not viable in PvP or PvE. The class is only as good as the person playing it. It is about how much time and energy a person is willing invest in that class.

 

You're way off base there buddy. Player skill and class balance are completely independent of each other, I honestly don't understand how anyone (other than BW) could try to justify merc's lack of significant defensive cooldowns with a "l2p" comment.

 

Not saying I agree with the op, mercs can be decent in regs depending on team comps. But at the end of the day playing a merc in the current metta is alot like trying to polish a turd.

Edited February 20, 2016 by nzologic

[Kaedusz]

Call me crazy but if they gave the option to choose the old Tracer Missile animation for those who want it + if they fix the missing sound bugs for some abilities, i will not care how bad mercs are and will live happily ever after with a merc as a main. Edited February 22, 2016 by Kaedusz

[MuskyBoy]

A general point, I'm curious as to know why Merc/mandos have a 24 sec CD on their interrupt when all other ranged classes are at 18 seconds. It may make very little difference however this is a problem which affects both PVP and PVE.

[SlimPikinz]

A general point, I'm curious as to know why Merc/mandos have a 24 sec CD on their interrupt when all other ranged classes are at 18 seconds. It may make very little difference however this is a problem which affects both PVP and PVE.

 

 

This has always bothered me as well. Wonder what the reasoning is behind this. Another thing that bothers me is why they separated our basic attack/heal into 2 abilities? As if we don't have enough abilities to worry about. Man, I miss the old one.. It's the small things in life.

[CaptQuazar]

The interrupt CD is probably a data entry mistake they consider too low priority to fix. I remember a similar mistake in Warhammer Online. The devs there only got around to fixing it about a year before the game went offline.

[Gyronamics]

The interrupt CD is probably a data entry mistake they consider too low priority to fix. I remember a similar mistake in Warhammer Online. The devs there only got around to fixing it about a year before the game went offline.

 

Not a mistake.

 

When the game launched and for quite a while after the class and the mirror had no interrupt on purpose.

 

They have some underlying obsession with commandos being less able to use interrupts than other classes.

[ShadessaWayland]

i agree after a long break i wanna try my merc healer again but sadly EA/BW stile didt do nothing to our class

 

and it seems all players no how weak merc is in pvp they see a merc kil me in a few hits and becone

am come back they see me and again the same thing

 

they know already how easy it is to beat us

 

in my few what can be done is change energy schield to a absorp schield same as sorc

it will give us more survival for a bit

 

other option give 1 hand a schield generator make us a bit hybrid tank/healer

we dont need to kill other players as long i can help my team

 

and stay alive for a long time so the enemy wont focus less on the healers

Treek was a good sample as a tank/healer works perfeckt

 

i stile hope for the best and that EA/BW think abou us and make our class a bit more fun

 

sorry for my english

[Raideen]

I am not going to pretend I know how to fix the class nor am I going to pretend Bioware even cares about fixing the class. I am also not going to pretend that I know everything there is to know about mercs.

 

That being said.

 

What I DO know is that playing an arsenal merc in pvp is not fun, its not rewarding. Rather I find myself constantly getting headaches, getting frustrated and often, very very often I consider cancelling my sub and finding something else to play. I have watched the videos, read the 4.0 gear guides, rotations, etc. And I still find myself completely vulnerable.

 

I am 3 pieces of gear shy of full 208. What I do have is augmented with crit and power. I am at 39% crit and 104 accuracy (I know I can drop that by 1). It does not seem to matter. The difference between being in pve gear and pvp gear is that I actually seem to do damage now, but my survivability is damn near non existent.

 

I have PVP'd for the past 15 years in FPS, and MMO's. Have gladiator in wow and high warlord (from vanilla). I PVP'd in Warhammer on shaman and Black orcs (black orcs were OP as hell) and in guild wars 2. Nothing, nothing in any game was as frustrating as pvping on this merc.

 

Anyway, I am just posting to vent I suppose. I cant I'magine anyone will care what I say and I imagine I will just be slammed with L2P and stuff and be labeled a scrub...that is fine and all but the bottom line is when a game is more frustrating than fun, you will lose that customer.

[CaptQuazar]

 

I have PVP'd for the past 15 years in FPS, and MMO's. Have gladiator in wow and high warlord (from vanilla). I PVP'd in Warhammer on shaman and Black orcs (black orcs were OP as hell) and in guild wars 2. Nothing, nothing in any game was as frustrating as pvping on this merc.

 

Anyway, I am just posting to vent I suppose. I cant I'magine anyone will care what I say and I imagine I will just be slammed with L2P and stuff and be labeled a scrub...that is fine and all but the bottom line is when a game is more frustrating than fun, you will lose that customer.

 

I had a Squigherder and a Black Orc in Warhammer online. I enjoyed PvP much more in that game, even though it had its own versions of OP healers and DPS. The CC was much more balanced.

 

I get frustrated on my commando from time to time, but I keep coming back to it. Despite its defensive short comings, it has emerged as my favorite class to play. I can only hope that the class gets a proper fix before it becomes moot and I'm off playing some other game.

[Aetideus]

I am not going to pretend I know how to fix the class nor am I going to pretend Bioware even cares about fixing the class. I am also not going to pretend that I know everything there is to know about mercs.

 

That being said.

 

What I DO know is that playing an arsenal merc in pvp is not fun, its not rewarding. Rather I find myself constantly getting headaches, getting frustrated and often, very very often I consider cancelling my sub and finding something else to play. I have watched the videos, read the 4.0 gear guides, rotations, etc. And I still find myself completely vulnerable.

 

I am 3 pieces of gear shy of full 208. What I do have is augmented with crit and power. I am at 39% crit and 104 accuracy (I know I can drop that by 1). It does not seem to matter. The difference between being in pve gear and pvp gear is that I actually seem to do damage now, but my survivability is damn near non existent.

 

I have PVP'd for the past 15 years in FPS, and MMO's. Have gladiator in wow and high warlord (from vanilla). I PVP'd in Warhammer on shaman and Black orcs (black orcs were OP as hell) and in guild wars 2. Nothing, nothing in any game was as frustrating as pvping on this merc.

 

Anyway, I am just posting to vent I suppose. I cant I'magine anyone will care what I say and I imagine I will just be slammed with L2P and stuff and be labeled a scrub...that is fine and all but the bottom line is when a game is more frustrating than fun, you will lose that customer.

 

The high learning curve for Merc is due the survivabilty skills.

 

Just an advice in contrast with Arsenal, IO allows for more Def heroic utils. While Arsenal requires Power Overrides and Thrill of the Hunt, is optional for IO. Rather use Stabilized Armor and Energy Rebounder.

 

Energy Rebounder or Smoke screen should be masterful. Stacking all Def utils in heroic tier is....

Edited March 13, 2016 by Aetideus

[Raideen]

I had a Squigherder and a Black Orc in Warhammer online. I enjoyed PvP much more in that game, even though it had its own versions of OP healers and DPS. The CC was much more balanced.

 

I get frustrated on my commando from time to time, but I keep coming back to it. Despite its defensive short comings, it has emerged as my favorite class to play. I can only hope that the class gets a proper fix before it becomes moot and I'm off playing some other game.

 

Thank you. It's good to know I am not alone in my frustration.

[Raideen]

Thank you. It's good to know I am not alone in my frustration.

 

I was wondering about that. It seems to me that a lot of the defensive stuff should be baseline for mercs. Either that or give mercs 60 yards of range.

[CaptQuazar]

The high learning curve for Merc is due the survivabilty skills.

 

Just an advice in contrast with Arsenal, IO allows for more Def heroic utils. While Arsenal requires Power Overrides and Thrill of the Hunt, is optional for IO. Rather use Stabilized Armor and Energy Rebounder.

 

Energy Rebounder or Smoke screen should be masterful. Stacking all Def utils in heroic tier is....

 

I would argue Thrill of the Hunt/Forced March is mandatory in all 3 specs if you want to maximize your ability to kite.

[Raideen]

Update. I am full 208 augmented and am 1 mod away from optimizing my gear.

 

I still get tunneled by just about every class in game. If its death match, I the other team runs right past my team and comes to me 100% of the time.

 

The proof in a broken class has always been easy to measure...simply, how often do you get zerged by X,Y,Z classes or all of them. Same story, different names. They know through experience mercs put up no fight.

 

 

What I am about to say, I am dead serious. If mercs are meant to have no defenses when melee is training them, and little ability to kite, then we should be given 60 yards of range and perma 360 stealth detection.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Raideen

[Raideen]

Well not that any of you care or that bioware cares...but I think its time to stop giving them money and go find another game company who gives a damn about pvp balance.

[BowtieJones]

One of the best pieces of advice I ever received for playing a merc is positioning. Sounds simple right? What difference will that make? Yes, people will think you're an instant easy kill, so they will come after you. You know this, so make it more difficult for them. How? Positioning.

 

Try to place one or two of your teammates between you and the person you're targeting. This makes it much more difficult for them to target you. It's just the way tab targeting works. That person will have to hit tab a few times to get to you, or try to manually click your toon to select you. If you are constantly moving, which you should be doing, clicking on you is a pain. Hitting tab doesn't always select the person you want. Add these things up, and you just got a global cool down or two head start. Or they'll forget all about you and now you're free casting.

 

Yep. In an arena, they could just select your name from the score card, but honestly, how many people think to do that on the heat of battle. Probably only people that would wreck you anyway.

 

That simple adjustment on my part changed and saved my merc's life.

[Raideen]

I agree that positioning helps, but it does not help you if you are getting trained. Madness/marksmen don't have this issue, not to the degree mercs do.

 

The point is, like you said, everyone knows mercs are a free kill. If they train you hard enough every match is -1 meaning if its 8v8 its 7v8, if its 4v4 its 3v4. Mercs need better team synergy and better defenses.

[lavatsunami]

I agree that positioning helps, but it does not help you if you are getting trained. Madness/marksmen don't have this issue, not to the degree mercs do.

 

The point is, like you said, everyone knows mercs are a free kill. If they train you hard enough every match is -1 meaning if its 8v8 its 7v8, if its 4v4 its 3v4. Mercs need better team synergy and better defenses.

 

I can tell you that as someone who pvps a lot, one of the first thing I do is gauge reaction and death times of people on the opposite team. If I see someone who looks weak (and that's how you come across), I'm going to target you instantly, every single time, because I know YOU are a free kill (not your class). Keep that in mind. I'm guessing that's a huge part of the problem.

 

I play merc and i have people who try to kill me multiple times with multiple people and fail, and they give up because they know they're going to have to work for it. Smart pvpers find and target people who are easy kills.

[UberDudeX]

I can tell you that as someone who pvps a lot, one of the first thing I do is gauge reaction and death times of people on the opposite team. If I see someone who looks weak (and that's how you come across), I'm going to target you instantly, every single time, because I know YOU are a free kill (not your class). Keep that in mind. I'm guessing that's a huge part of the problem.

 

I play merc and i have people who try to kill me multiple times with multiple people and fail, and they give up because they know they're going to have to work for it. Smart pvpers find and target people who are easy kills.

 

I've come across mercs in pvp that were hard to kill. But that was only because they had a sorc 25m behind them keeping their silly *** alive. Don't come here and try to stroke your epeen and berate someone by saying they look weak. All things being equal, a commando/merc is the softest, easiest class to kill in pvp. You can only pop that medpac once, you can only spam them weak off heals for so long, that adrenaline rush only last 8 seconds and doesn't keep you from being one shot by a 20k+ super crit. If you're zerged without support you're dead in seconds and the problem is you can't say that about every class.

[Floplag]

I have a few tidbits ill share. I am by no means awesome or anything but I manage to irritate the premades a little from time to time so... here goes:

 

First off, know your rotation, then realize you wont be using it much. Use it when you can, adapt when you cant. see examples below.

 

You have a lot of skill that are not rotational, that doesnt mean you dont use them. Its better for example to use missile blast instants on the move than wasting stacks of your buffs on a lesser powered rail shot/HS unless the person is near death.

 

Learn the other classes, know what they do, how they can counter you, blowing big hitters into saber reflect = bad. Now if they pop in in the middle of your BB stop it with a dart, toss fusion missile on them. All things that we would not usually use given choice but its better than the alternative or doing nothing.

 

Save your interrupts for when it matters most.

 

Just keep swimming... in pvp you have to move as much as possible. This is for 2 main reasons; #1 to keep range, #2 to keep positioning. Standing still means someone is closing on you or getting better positioning on you. Almost everyone has some kind of leap, pull, roll, or misc gap closers, line if sight matters more than range does.

 

Always assume you are targeted by someone, never relax. Its well known that we are the weakest defensive class, they will think you are an easy kill, and frequently you will be.

 

You are a glass canon, wasting points on defensive utils wont help, embrace what you are and get them first, the longer a fight lasts, the higher the chance you die.

 

Dont expect your heals to save you as others classes can with theirs. Virtually every heal we have is less heals for more resources than other classes comparable skills. It comes down to this, is a 5-10K heal better than a 10-20K hit to them, whats the best use of the GCD. Now our instant HoT, that should be used all the time, but the hard cast heal, often makes little difference due to healing for such a small amount and costing so much for what it does. That doesnt mean dont use them, just realize they arent strong enough to actually save you under duress.

 

Lastly, be unpredictable as much as possible. Do the unexpected. Think outside the box. Try to confuse them. I will often backpeddle to sucker Ops into using their rolls then escape, run thru melee classes up close to reset skills for them, random things like that.

 

Now... heres the catch, none of this really matters. Once engaged someones is going to go down, there is no escape for you. Odds are it will be you especially if its more than 1v1, accept that, its just where the class is right now. The best you can do is irritate them, make them work for it, and relish the little victories. You will beat a lot of the fotm players and even the good ones when they dont have everything available but the good ones will eat you for lunch most of the time. If you cant handle that, dont play the class.

 

The class is not hard to play in theory but its one of the most challenging in reality in the sense that we have the weakest defenses and no get out of jail free card like others do. We have one chance, take them out before they get us, thats it. If you can make those players burn those skills you basically beat them even if you die. Thats the Merc mentality in the current meta.

[Raideen]

I can tell you that as someone who pvps a lot, one of the first thing I do is gauge reaction and death times of people on the opposite team. If I see someone who looks weak (and that's how you come across), I'm going to target you instantly, every single time, because I know YOU are a free kill (not your class). Keep that in mind. I'm guessing that's a huge part of the problem.

 

I play merc and i have people who try to kill me multiple times with multiple people and fail, and they give up because they know they're going to have to work for it. Smart pvpers find and target people who are easy kills.

 

All I do is pvp, and that's all I have done for 14 years now in MMO's. I agree that weak players get targeted, that is human nature...people will always take the easy route. I do the same, but I also target weak classes as frequently as I target weak players. Its a well known fact that mercs get targeted first due to their lack of defensive abilities. Even the best mercs go down in seconds when focused because the class does not have the utility to overcome being trained...its simple fact of abilities.

 

I don't care how good the merc is, I still gun for them every time, even on my merc. I do it on every class I play because I know the chances of me killing them before they kill me are really damn good.

 

The only mercs I see owning in warzones are mercs in premades with a sorc backing them and guarded.