Best in Slot Augments and Relics (For DPS)

[ichebem]

My gear without augments has full crit enhancements. I think you are here in this thread for the wrong purpose, or are misguided about what the OP is for.

 

The OP IS for gearing up for MAXIMUM possible burst in between burst windows on classes and specs that are based on burst damage in an effort to keep TTK to an absolute minimum. Because of this, you do not want alacrity or accuracy because they do not contribute to burst.

 

The OP is NOT for how to min/max for SUSTAINED specs. For that, you would in fact want some degree of Alacrity and/or Accuracy. It also would not push crit this far into the DR because you would be less concerned with raw damage and LOW TTK and more concerned with long term pressure that eventually kills multiple people at the same time, over time.

 

If your goals are to achieve something in between those two statements above then you will have to use this math as a foundation an push it one step further with your own calculations. If you need my already complete alacrity formulas then let me know and I can provide you with the information to crunch the numbers for yourself to determine a balance between sustain and burst.

 

OK Maybe we are speacing about different things.

If your goal ist to get the highest crit, your calculation is fine.

 

But your were talking about best Burst. And Burst does not mean highest Crit for me.

 

For example, if you try to kill somebody in stunlog, it litterally means, you stun somebody for 4 Seconds, follwed up by a 2nd 4-second stun.

Assumed no stun is perfect & there is the abiliy delay. Furthermore the effect, that you maybe not start @ the right time, because your m8 does the first stun and you need to walk 3m...

So Alacrity can be a gain. Because even if you only win 0,1seconds, This can mean, your opponent cant press oh-**** buttton and you are able to deal 1 attack more.

And 1 Attack more will always make your Burst bigger than it could be without this attack.

 

So: 10% Alacrity are quite easy to achieve. which means in 8second stun-log, you could get 0,8 seconds more time. Time for positioning, time which is lost because the 2nd stun of the stun rota is not perfect & so on....

 

...

 

Just my ideas, if we speak about highest "Burst".

 

And, as mentioned before. More Alacrity means, you can Burst more often.

[Arunas]

Thank you for your effort!

 

Now I'm not a top tier player, so what your math proved to me is that you can't go wrong basically: crit, power or main stat or any mixture of them, and you end up with numbers that are within 1% of the optimal dps.

Taking into account game mechanics: ccs, escapes, dcds etc., this 1% doesn't really decide anything. You will still be able to put out decent sustained damage in trinity or dps+heals matches. And you will still have enough burst for 1v1 or 4 dps vs 4 dps. Not to mention regs where 1% increase is irrelevant.

 

This is PvP, the difference will be insignificant compared to skill gap in any case.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

OK Maybe we are speacing about different things.

If your goal ist to get the highest crit, your calculation is fine.

 

But your were talking about best Burst. And Burst does not mean highest Crit for me.

 

For example, if you try to kill somebody in stunlog, it litterally means, you stun somebody for 4 Seconds, follwed up by a 2nd 4-second stun.

Assumed no stun is perfect & there is the abiliy delay. Furthermore the effect, that you maybe not start @ the right time, because your m8 does the first stun and you need to walk 3m...

So Alacrity can be a gain. Because even if you only win 0,1seconds, This can mean, your opponent cant press oh-**** buttton and you are able to deal 1 attack more.

And 1 Attack more will always make your Burst bigger than it could be without this attack.

 

So: 10% Alacrity are quite easy to achieve. which means in 8second stun-log, you could get 0,8 seconds more time. Time for positioning, time which is lost because the 2nd stun of the stun rota is not perfect & so on....

 

...

 

Just my ideas, if we speak about highest "Burst".

 

And, as mentioned before. More Alacrity means, you can Burst more often.

 

Burst is meant to kill a target in the fewest GCDs possible. Alacrity does not help you do that. In a 4 second hard stun, you cannot gain enough alacrity to actually fit in another ability. Because of this, you are doing less damage in those GCDs than you would if you were geared for maximum burst, which would be full crit.

 

Alacrity will never help you actually kill a target faster than crit and surge will. You would need access to almost triple the alacrity we currently have access to in order for it to perform this way.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Jinre_the_Jedi

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Thank you for your effort!

 

Now I'm not a top tier player, so what your math proved to me is that you can't go wrong basically: crit, power or main stat or any mixture of them, and you end up with numbers that are within 1% of the optimal dps.

Taking into account game mechanics: ccs, escapes, dcds etc., this 1% doesn't really decide anything. You will still be able to put out decent sustained damage in trinity or dps+heals matches. And you will still have enough burst for 1v1 or 4 dps vs 4 dps. Not to mention regs where 1% increase is irrelevant.

 

From a perspective of Damage per second, there is only a 2% difference between the best Augs and worst.

 

In terms of RAW DAMAGE, as in, the difference between you seeing a 19.9k Max hit ever or a 20k Max hit, power is the best choice.

[PrincessNuri]

Nooooo!!!! Just when I used all crit augs on PvP gear.

 

 

[ichebem]

Burst is meant to kill a target in the fewest GCDs possible. Alacrity does not help you do that. In a 4 second hard stun, you cannot gain enough alacrity to actually fit in another ability. Because of this, you are doing less damage in those GCDs than you would if you were geared for maximum burst, which would be full crit.

 

Alacrity will never help you actually kill a target faster than crit and surge will. You would need access to almost triple the alacrity we currently have access to in order for it to perform this way.

 

Theoritical you are right.

 

Practical I think, there will be often the situation where you are able to use 1 ability more during hardstun, although you get only something around 0,4 to 0,8 seconds, which is less than a GCD. Reasons are listed above. Different opinions.

 

So, thx for your work, thx for the discussion, and happy gearing

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Nooooo!!!! Just when I used all crit augs on PvP gear.

 

 

 

The difference between your augs and Power is only 1% DPS and maximum damage, so it's not the end of the world

[revcrisis]

Since you're finding full power augs to be > full crit augs, wouldn't BIS relics be the FR + SA? The FR is not that far behind the SA in terms of bonus damage and has a higher stat allocation than the DV relic.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Since you're finding full power augs to be > full crit augs, wouldn't BIS relics be the FR + SA? The FR is not that far behind the SA in terms of bonus damage and has a higher stat allocation than the DV relic.

 

FR relic is worse than DV for achieving maximum burst in a short window. FR does provide guaranteed sustain, but I stated already in the OP that this is gearing for maximum possible burst in the shortest time frame, and with DV granting double the surge on auto crits and crit + surge on regular abilities, it's just better for burst windows, assuming you micromanage your windows around a known upcoming proc, which isn't hard to do.

 

Edit: For visual purposes, getting a DV proc while sitting in full Critical Enhancements (about 1370 rating), you will gain 9.8% bonus surge on an auto crit ability. That's worth way more damage than a FR proc.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Jinre_the_Jedi

[Draqsko]

Anyone else run some parses on Vigilance?

 

I know it's kind of OT, but I was checking some parses of Focus versus Vigilance in relation to this topic and I noticed all my crits on Overhead Slash are roughly equal in damage. But with the Vindicator set bonus getting changed, some of those crits should be seeing the increased surge from having an instant crit after blade storm once per minute. The only time I'm seeing a spike in crit damage is from relic procs though, not the once per minute spike you'd expect with the set bonus.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Anyone else run some parses on Vigilance?

 

I know it's kind of OT, but I was checking some parses of Focus versus Vigilance in relation to this topic and I noticed all my crits on Overhead Slash are roughly equal in damage. But with the Vindicator set bonus getting changed, some of those crits should be seeing the increased surge from having an instant crit after blade storm once per minute. The only time I'm seeing a spike in crit damage is from relic procs though, not the once per minute spike you'd expect with the set bonus.

 

I don't play jugg :/

[CmdrXaan]

So for a concealment operative I want to use Power Augments then? Or crit... I'm so confused

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

So for a concealment operative I want to use Power Augments then? Or crit... I'm so confused

 

Power for 1% DPS increase and a 1% damage increase on auto crits.

 

Critical Augments if you want to do 1% less DPS/Damage but want an additional 7% crit chance.

[Kakisback]

Don't see anything about relics in your post, until the very end, where you claim that power and crit relic is BiS? I agree on the power augs though, I've done the math on that on multiple classes, power augs all the way.

 

Not sure why you're so keen on the proc from the crit relic, when it gives less crit than the other relics give power/mastery, whereas for augs you can exchange between power and crit at a 1:1 ratio. You are also getting plenty of crit rating for the tertiary stats of your gear, putting significant DR on the crit relic's proc. For both burst and sustain, power and mastery relic is the way to go.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Kakisback

[MusicRider]

Using one post to reply to some posts.

 

You can't gear enough alacrity for that to matter for a burst spec though. Even at 10% Alacrity, you can only force 1 extra burst window in every 225 seconds on average, which is every 4 minutes

 

Not sure what you mean by burst window here, but you fit one extra attack every 10. The questions are, does the extra attack cover the higher damage that has been dealt by a non-alacirty spec; in order to see the maximal benefit it does require attacking non-stop.

 

Nooooo!!!! Just when I used all crit augs on PvP gear.

 

 

 

And you did the right thing if you are speccing for burst.

 

So for a concealment operative I want to use Power Augments then? Or crit... I'm so confused

 

Crit if you spec for burst. But extreme values of crit have the highest diminishing returns, so you might still want to sneak in some power or alacrity augments.

 

Power for 1% DPS increase and a 1% damage increase on auto crits.

 

Critical Augments if you want to do 1% less DPS/Damage but want an additional 7% crit chance.

 

I think this kind of summarises the whole thread and should be the TL'DR message, which IMO gives a clear advantage to crit mostly depending on base crit rating from gear in order to avoid the very high diminishing returns.

 

EDIT: Probably splitting into 7/7 is the best choice. And they won't be wasted if decide to change and have an alt .

Edited October 27, 2015 by MusicRider

[Icykill_]

I think "BiS" really depends on what you want from your character.

 

Full crit augments will lead to slightly higher burst, and full power will lead to slightly higher sustained. I tend to favor burst in pvp. Burst windows where a tank is cc'd, a dps out of guard range etc don't usually last for more than two or three abilities so I want those abilities to hit as hard as possible.

 

Whenever you are conducting statistical tests using the "average" as your benchmark, power will usually perform better than crit because it has less variance. Incorporating data points like the min/max might be useful- you'd intuitively expect to have a greater number of larger hits with critical augments while also a greater number of smaller hits than the power aug's average when you don't crit.

 

Also as an aside, critical hits give me back energy in virulence but that's just a one-off case for why crit may be better for me personally- it lets me use takedown all the time as my filler without worrying about dropping below optimal energy regen which increases overall sustained/burst slightly

 

I have to agree on classes that rely more on sustained damage, like madness Sorcs, that power is probably going to be better...

But any burst class specs should aim for that higher crit ratio... Most pvp combat scenarios that are one on one will be about who can burst the highest and fastest... That's why I have replaced all accuracy for alacrity and all power/mastery augs for crit... I don't know if that's completely right on the alacrity/accuracy thing, I'm still waiting to see... But so far it seems to be working for me on my Merc

[darthhybrius]

Been wondering, crystal-wise, do you recommend using expertise crystals, or do you go for a power or crit one?

 

Good and interesting post by the way!

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

Been wondering, crystal-wise, do you recommend using expertise crystals, or do you go for a power or crit one?

 

Good and interesting post by the way!

 

Expertise still

[Giliodor]

Disregard post. Results turned out to be very convenient for the skill I was testing, but they don't apply to other skills. Sigh. Edited October 27, 2015 by Giliodor

[ishbindeinvater]

Actually, based on the math above, full Power augments give higher burst.

 

Crit augments will give you higher chance to burst, however it ends there.

 

Edit: Specifically, it gives you 7% more chance to acquire a critical hit over power augments.

 

Edit 2: I did NOT take in to account classes that benefit numerically from crit (as in increased resource gain from crtits) so for those classes, take this with a grain of salt.

 

I am not a math genius, but for PvP crit is better i think. At least if you are the lucky guy, then your burst is much higher than your statistical average. But your statistics are right for sure, just from a math point of view.

 

You can always count on the power damage, but have to "hope" for the crit damage, so a lucky phase will net you more burst damage. Not counting in all those skills which trigger on a crit, like heals.

 

Or am I wrong here?

[Zottelkrischan]

don't underrate alacrity, getting a stun or a def-cd a few seconds earlier ready can be very viable

 

and for crit vs power: you cant look at a pvp-match as ONE fight like fighting an op-boss, so overall damage is not that important, there are many little fights, a lot of them very short, maybe you're not winning all of them but the few in where you get additional crits maybe those you are winning and ONE won fight could win the match

 

edit: my fault, def-cd's aren't affected by alacrity, but stun, death from above, e-net and those ammo-related-things do

Edited October 27, 2015 by Zottelkrischan

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

don't underrate alacrity, getting a stun or a def-cd a few seconds earlier ready can be very viable

 

and for crit vs power: you cant look at a pvp-match as ONE fight like fighting an op-boss, so overall damage is not that important, there are many little fights, a lot of them very short, maybe you're not winning all of them but the few in where you get additional crits maybe those you are winning and ONE won fight could win the match

 

I do not underrate Alacrity, but this post is geared towards comparing pure burst stats, not sustained stats.

[Zottelkrischan]

if i get my stun a few seconds earlier back than you, your burst is stopped :-)

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

if i get my stun a few seconds earlier back than you, your burst is stopped :-)

 

This post isn't about theoretically placed CC or any of that, it's just a purely mathematical approach to achieving the maximum possible burst. Nothing more, nothing less

[Zottelkrischan]

This post isn't about theoretically placed CC or any of that, it's just a purely mathematical approach to achieving the maximum possible burst. Nothing more, nothing less

 

so it has no real use for pvp

ok, ok i'll stop arguing^^

 

PS.: nice guide on dulfy, thanks for that

Edited October 27, 2015 by Zottelkrischan