Best in Slot Augments and Relics (For DPS)

[Kakisback]

Auto Crit = Critical Chance (%) + Surge (%)

 

I'm well aware that this is the assumption based on the dev quote, and I'm operating under this assumption under in my calculations; I'm just wondering if it's been confirmed in game.

 

Glad to see we got the same result.

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

I'm well aware that this is the assumption based on the dev quote, and I'm operating under this assumption under in my calculations; I'm just wondering if it's been confirmed in game.

 

Glad to see we got the same result.

 

Actually, it might be incorrect. Based on this same thread in the Assassin/Shadow sub forum, some users believe that they have math to prove that it's actually multiplicative instead of additive. I have yet to see any concrete information behind their claims, however.

[Kakisback]

Actually, it might be incorrect. Based on this same thread in the Assassin/Shadow sub forum, some users believe that they have math to prove that it's actually multiplicative instead of additive. I have yet to see any concrete information behind their claims, however.

 

Wait so they think it takes your surge % and multiplies it by (1+ crit chance)? That'd be weird...

[Aluvi]

Nice job OP. Saved me the trouble. As before, when we debated main stat vs Power, it comes down to about a 1% difference that won't really be noticable.

[Veronyka]

All enhancements have power, unless you were running with tank enhancements.

 

 

Yeah I meant to say the Adept 40X ones I've replaced all bar one and noticed an improvement (not massive admittedly) and of course there are other variables.

[garabet]

I tested 100 Assassinates in 60 seconds for my testing environment

 

14 Critical Augment 40

Average tool tip damage of Assassinate: 7951 Damage
Critical Chance Value: 44.23% 
Surge Value: 74.69% 

Assuming 45 Assassinates will crit, total damage is: 625,032 Damage
Assuming 55 Assassinates don't crit, total damage is: 437,305 Damage

Adding those two values, 100 hits give you: 1,062,337 Damage
Divide this by 60 seconds and you get: 17,705.62 Damage per Second

 

Crit Augments give: 17,705.62 DPS on Assassinate

 

14 Overkill Augment 40

Average tool tip damage of Assassinate: 8668 Damage
Critical Chance Value: 38.38%
Surge Value: 68.72% 

Assuming 38 Assassinates will crit, total damage is: 555,736.6848 Damage
Assuming 62 Assassinates don't crit, total damage is: 537,416 Damage

Adding those two values, 100 hits give you: 1,093,153 Damage
Divided by 60 seconds gives you: 18,219.22 Damage per second

 

Power Augments give you: 18,219.22 DPS on Assassinate

 

Divide the two DPS values: 18,219.22 DPS / 17,705.62 DPS

 

Power augments give a 1.029% DPS increase or for simplicity's sake: 1.03% DPS increase.

 

Math for what happens when you swap 1 crit augment for 1 mastery augment:

Math from 13 Critical Augments, 1 Mastery Augment. Everything else is the same as the original test:

 

Crit Chance: 44.04% 
Surge: 74.39%
Average Tooltip Assassinate: 7998.5 Damage
Critical Assassinate will do: 13,948.58 Damage

Using the same 100 hits in 60 seconds as the OP:
Assuming 44 Critical hits you'll do: 613,737.52
Assuming 56 non critical hits, you'll do: 447,916
This equals: 1,061,653.52  damage done. Divided by 60 seconds = [color="Red"]17,694.23 DPS[/color]

 

Full Critical Augments gave: 17,705.62 Damage per Second

13 Critical, 1 Mastery Augment gives: 17,694.23 Damage Per Second

 

Divide them: 17,705.62 / 17,694.23 = 1.00064

Mastery augments are not worth using and are 1% worse than critical augments.

 

Lastly, the same is applied to Auto-Crit builds. Auto-crit builds roll your crit hit chance into your surge, as per the blog:

 

This is your total critical %, not just your critical rating number. Assuming Assassinate auto-crits due to my set bonus, let's look at the math using the same values as above.

 

Auto-Crit Assassinate Damage

 

Critical Augments

44.23% Crit Chance + 74.69% Surge = 118.92% Surge on Auto-crit Assassinate

7951 (average Assassinate Damage with crit augs) * 2.1892 = 17,406.33 Damage

Auto-Crit Assassinate with Critical Augments will hit for 17,406.33 Damage

 

Power Augments

38.38% Crit Chance + 68.72% Surge = 107.1% Surge on Auto-crit Assassinate

8668 (average Assassinate Damage with Power augs) * 2.071 = 17,951.43

Auto-Crit Assassinate with Power Augments will hit for 17,951.43 Damage

 

17,951.43 (Power augment damage) / 17,406.33 (Critical augment damage) = 1.03

 

Power Augments give a 1.03% increased damage on auto crit abilities over Critical Augments.

 

So even on rotational auto-crit classes, Power augments are Best in Slot. Mastery augments are all around worse than both Power and Critical augments and should not be used.

 

PVE theorycrafters says that crit augments provides more dps than power augments. I assume that the ~1370 crit provided by gear items is enough to hit diminishing returns and the extra 1022 crit provided by augments becomes overkill in terms of DR, hence the power augments becomes better.

 

Tough i saw that you only tested with either full power augs or full crit augs but did you ever test the dps by using like 5-7 crit and 7 power augments? I dont know where the DR in crit rating starts to be diminished greatly but maybe half crit half power augs may provide more damage?

Edited November 1, 2015 by garabet

[Jinre_the_Jedi]

PVE theorycrafters says that crit augments provides more dps than power augments. I assume that the ~1370 crit provided by gear items is enough to hit diminishing returns and the extra 1022 crit provided by augments becomes overkill in terms of DR, hence the power augments becomes better.

 

Tough i saw that you only tested with either full power augs or full crit augs but did you ever test the dps by using like 5-7 crit and 7 power augments? I dont know where the DR in crit rating starts to be diminished greatly but maybe half crit half power augs may provide more damage?

 

PvE gearing is different than PvP gearing because they have much a much larger stat budget and have to account for various other things that you don't in a PvP environment. You can gear based on PvE theorycrafting if you'd like though, who am I to stop you?

 

As far as doing a mix of power/crit, I haven't bothered because I simply don't have the time at the moment. I'm pretty wiped out right now from all of the math/gearing/playtime I've been doing so I'm just trying to relax and chill for a bit.

[Kakisback]

PVE theorycrafters says that crit augments provides more dps than power augments. I assume that the ~1370 crit provided by gear items is enough to hit diminishing returns and the extra 1022 crit provided by augments becomes overkill in terms of DR, hence the power augments becomes better.

 

Tough i saw that you only tested with either full power augs or full crit augs but did you ever test the dps by using like 5-7 crit and 7 power augments? I dont know where the DR in crit rating starts to be diminished greatly but maybe half crit half power augs may provide more damage?

 

Pve gearing involves higher bonus damage, as well as the need to achieve 110% accuracy, which lowers the DR on the other tertiary stats. I did some work with augs yesterday and will post shortly.

[DariusCalera]

PVE theorycrafters says that crit augments provides more dps than power augments. I assume that the ~1370 crit provided by gear items is enough to hit diminishing returns and the extra 1022 crit provided by augments becomes overkill in terms of DR, hence the power augments becomes better.

 

Tough i saw that you only tested with either full power augs or full crit augs but did you ever test the dps by using like 5-7 crit and 7 power augments? I dont know where the DR in crit rating starts to be diminished greatly but maybe half crit half power augs may provide more damage?

 

On page 4 of this thread the OP states what happens when you start switching out power augments for a critical ones.

 

To make it easier.

 

As far as going half and half, yes, I did start to do that and you run in to some pretty strange results. Basically, you gain .001% DPS increase each time you swap out 1 Power augment for 1 Critical one up until the 3rd or 4th augment, after that, you start going down in DPS until you are eventually geared in full critical augments, which produces 1% less DPS/Burst damage than full power.

 

I think this has something to do with the DR, but I'm unsure.

Edited November 1, 2015 by DariusCalera

[garabet]

PvE gearing is different than PvP gearing because they have much a much larger stat budget and have to account for various other things that you don't in a PvP environment.

In fact, pve gear sets only have more Power and Mastery than pvp sets but pretty much same crit and/or alacrity ratings because we dont use accuracy in pvp, so the crit&ala ratings of lvl208 pvp set can be even with the lvl220 pve gear set

[Kakisback]

Going for max double relic proc autocrit, power + mastery relic, full crit in tertiary, power augs vs crit augs:

 

Concentration/Fury- Concentrated Slice/Furious Strike: (3.00(1.05)(2786+0.2(1.05)(0)+0.23(1022-x))+750)(1.51+.10+2(.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(((1370+x)/65)/0.8)))+.11+.20(1-(1-(0.01/0.2))^(((5548+1.05(0))/65)/5.5))) = max at 13 power 1 crit augs, 22848.6. With 2 accuracy enhancements, it’s max at 10 power 4 crit augs.

 

Concentration/Fury- Focused/Raging Burst: (2.29(1.05)(2348+0.2(1.05)(0)+0.23(1022-x))+1028)(1.51+.10+.15+2(.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(((1370+x)/65)/0.8)))+.11+.20(1-(1-(0.01/0.2))^(((5548+1.05(0))/65)/5.5))) = max at 14 power 0 crit augs, 16938.9. With 2 accuracy enhancements, it’s max at 12 power 2 crit augs.

 

There ya go. I did both because of the stat differences between weapon damage and force/tech damage.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Kakisback

[JaredLoch]

Going for max double relic proc autocrit, power + mastery relic, full crit in tertiary, power augs vs crit augs:

 

Concentration/Fury- Concentrated Slice/Furious Strike: (3.00(1.05)(2786+0.2(1.05)(0)+0.23(1022-x))+750)(1.51+.10+2(.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(((1370+x)/65)/0.8)))+.11+.20(1-(1-(0.01/0.2))^(((5548+1.05(0))/60)/5.5))) = max at 13 power 1 crit augs, 22848.6. With 2 accuracy enhancements, it’s max at 10 power 4 crit augs.

 

Concentration/Fury- Focused/Raging Burst: (2.29(1.05)(2348+0.2(1.05)(0)+0.23(1022-x))+1028)(1.51+.10+.15+2(.30(1-(1-(0.01/0.3))^(((1370+x)/65)/0.8)))+.11+.20(1-(1-(0.01/0.2))^(((5548+1.05(0))/60)/5.5))) = max at 14 power 0 crit augs, 16938.9. With 2 accuracy enhancements, it’s max at 12 power 2 crit augs.

 

There ya go. I did both because of the stat differences between weapon damage and force/tech damage.

 

So I'm a little confused you're saying the max dps yield is 10 power augs and 4 Crit augs and 2 accuracy enhancements and the rest are Crit pieces (8 enhancements including implants and earpiece)?

[Kakisback]

So I'm a little confused you're saying the max dps yield is 10 power augs and 4 Crit augs and 2 accuracy enhancements and the rest are Crit pieces (8 enhancements including implants and earpiece)?

 

Fixed a small error there, but result is same. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Getting 2 accuracy pieces as Fury was something I've already decided on doing (puts you right at 105%, and seems to be a dps gain) . But for sin, you'd be less likely to be getting that accuracy, so I listed the optimal augmentation for both no accuracy and accuracy setups.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Kakisback

[znihilist]

How did you exactly go about using 100 Assassinates in 60 seconds? What was exactly your procedure? Did you dps the dummy till 30% and then only used Assassinate whenever it came out of CD? Or did you just take tooltip damage and assumed you are using 100 Assassinates in 60 seconds and did the calculations?

[revcrisis]

This concludes that for relics, you want Power and Mastery.

-Te'fia

Thanks for doing this Tefia, super helpful. My question is, for certain burst specs, does the crit relic become more beneficial? Fury & Carnage have an autocrit every ~10 seconds as well as the 1-minute set bonus autocrit. Marksmanship Snipers have 2 autocrits every 1 minute, as well as significant critical chance increases & surge bonuses in their discipline. Lightning sorcerer also has an autocrit every ~10s. For these high burst, high critical chance specs, does the crit relic outpace the mastery?

Edited November 2, 2015 by revcrisis

[Kakisback]

Thanks for doing this Tefia, super helpful. My question is, for certain burst specs, does the crit relic become more beneficial? Fury & Carnage have an autocrit every ~10 seconds as well as the 1-minute set bonus autocrit. Marksmanship Snipers have 2 autocrits every 1 minute, as well as significant critical chance increases & surge bonuses in their discipline. Lightning sorcerer also has an autocrit every ~10s. For these high burst, high critical chance specs, does the crit relic outpace the mastery?

 

No it doesn't, the crit relic is better than a mastery or power relic in exactly 0 scenarios. I made a post with the math earlier.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Kakisback

[JaredLoch]

Fixed a small error there, but result is same. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Getting 2 accuracy pieces as Fury was something I've already decided on doing (puts you right at 105%, and seems to be a dps gain) . But for sin, you'd be less likely to be getting that accuracy, so I listed the optimal augmentation for both no accuracy and accuracy setups.

 

Ok so two accuracy enhancements and 8 Crit enhancements and 10 power augs and 4 Crit augs is your BiS?

[Esis]

So basically, as a deception assassin, it's best to just stack overkill augs? I guess I should be happy that I didn't have to spend anymore money.

[JaredLoch]

Yeah I'm still not set on what's the best for a Vigilance Guard. I have seen a lot of people with power augs (hardly anyone without alacrity augs). So I'm not sure if they just haven't read these types of forms or I'm doing something wrong. Anyone who plays a guard or Vig please help

[Kakisback]

Ok so two accuracy enhancements and 8 Crit enhancements and 10 power augs and 4 Crit augs is your BiS?

 

My math says that build is the best specifically for maximizing your double relic proc Furious Strike (white damage) autocrits. 12 power and 2 crit augs for Raging Burst (yellow damage) autocrits. For sustained damage in heavy autocrit specs, it seems to be around 12 power 2 crit augs. Keep in mind that these differences are quite small. Less than .4% dps between 12 power 2 crit and 14 power, for sustain.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Kakisback

[Josewales]

Some really good takes here.

 

Mine is simple. After reading power vs. crit comparisons, I bought both for my Sin & Slinger. Both I found power wins hands down due to high crit bursts in pvp ques. I can live with 30% rate compared to 40% if it means one can burn one down easier when needed. With crit I find myself playing cat and mouse more. It's about style I guess...I don't care about leader boards but kills when needed. My take.

[TonyDragonflame]

mastery > power > crit

[Maegi]

mastery > power > crit

 

Reading > whatever you did

[Viraxis]

Reading > whatever you did

 

Best line of the entire thread.

[JaredLoch]

mastery > power > crit

 

Where are you getting that from? Everywhere I've read says

 

Crit>power>mastery. If not then power > Crit > mastery

 

Anyone thoughts?