Is This Really What People Want??

[hadoken]

Really TOR is just yet another slap in the face to us gamers this year.

 

Was waiting for this to arrive in this thread. Now the circle is complete.

[AlrikFassbauer]

"It's a slap" ?

[Lodinn]

Time to Steam, guys

Well OP is damn good, I've had so good laugh about Chapter I - The Puddle.

 

About population - it says TRE is full on evenings, I've even seen login queue for the first time in SW:TOR.

If to get to the topic - story is quite good but it totally lacks content. It requires resources, yes, but damn, it looks like panic mode to me now. Just recall what it was this year:

Community: We need more story!

BW: Ziost.

Community: Yaay! Let's wait couple more days for the end of the story, you got us hooked up!

BW: deadlinedeadlinedeadline... Well, here it is. And we fixed a couple of bugs and punished exploiters.

Community: Is... That it? Wait... It's also not playable before lvl 60 and is very poorly replayable. And you need to grind it to gain access to WB and Colossal. Just like SoR flashpoints. 3.0 sux major.

 

That's why I liked lvl sync, btw. For all how bad engine was and how raw the game was overall for launching it, it was quite rich on content. It's good they made it more replayable and therefore made a better use of resources they have spent on development. Expansions, especially later ones, are all done in a rush. And EA crippled BW quite a bit on resources. Result? All they can is to keep players not too discontent and add new cosmetics to CM to keep money flowing.

 

Yes, people WANTED new single-player content. BW recycled old one in somewhat acceptable way, but they missed creating a new one. I mean, it's obvious they're suffering a lot of pressure and instead of stating that they will by no means be ready to launch KotFE by November and adding more to a story they are spending huge amount of resources on bug fixing. I think many have encountered problems of that sort on work, and... Gj EA. Just gj *slowclap*.

[TUXs]

Posting this in every thread you can doesn't make it true.

Does a link supporting his assertion make it true?

http://www.torstatus.net/the-harbinger/history/7d#!/the-harbinger/history/7d

It's the best tool we have to judge his accuracy with and it seems as though he's correct.

[hadoken]

Does a link supporting his assertion make it true?

http://www.torstatus.net/the-harbinger/history/7d#!/the-harbinger/history/7d

It's the best tool we have to judge his accuracy with and it seems as though he's correct.

 

hmm hard to know, if you put it at last 30 days you can see there's been some ups and downs. Could just be a down.

 

Regardless he backpedaled anyway and is now claiming he meant population since the launch of the game. Which, well, duh.

 

Also, we don't entirely know what they did hardware wise recently in trying to make things easier for people to get in and stay in - they could very well have increased capacity which would naturally make everything lower than it was.

 

-ok last edit, promise- another thing I think a lot of people need to keep in mind too is the game market right now. We're on the verge of a massive single player RPG title coming out that is surely going to dent those numbers. Just don't jump to the conclusion that it's because of level scaling or companions or some other thing - it's simply a new shiny coming out that's been eagerly anticipated. There can be a number of reasons for a decline in population at any given time, it isn't necessarily your hot button issue.

Edited November 5, 2015 by hadoken

[GalacticKegger]

Its easy to see that we are in worse shape than before this 'expansion' . Story, BW's 4th pillar that they put all faith into, was met with a resounding NO at release by the vast majority and almost had this entire game shut down quickly. F2P keeps the server power on but for how long?

 

What shocks me is how quickly people tired of it.

Some historical corrections if I may. A collection of things caused the game's decline in population soon after release. That the game is story driven had nothing to do with it.

 

What caused the game's release crisis? Adding 72 servers at launch to ease the queues then asking people to uproot their guilds and relocate to them was a big part of it. (A genuinely boneheaded decision imho.) That wound up thinning the server populations to the point where many figured the entire game had become a ghost town and left. We'd have been better off losing 10% to queue impatience instead of the 70% we lost to spreading the populations too thin. Also, had it launched with 1.2's QoL additions (customizable UI, Legacy, guild banks, etc.) many likely would have stayed. Plus, much of end game (read: Ilum) was borked.

 

What brought the game back was not F2P - because free means zero revenue and zero revenue never saved anything. But the Cartel Market cash shop (most notably custom armor, weapons & vehicles as well as Cartel Packs and the ability to generate credits from their GTN resales) had a LOT to do with it. The CM didn't need for F2P to happen to be successful.

Edited November 5, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[hadoken]

What brought the game back was not F2P - because free means zero revenue and zero revenue never saved anything. But the Cartel Market cash shop (most notably custom armor, weapons & vehicles as well as Cartel Packs and the ability to generate credits from their GTN resales) had a LOT to do with it. The CM didn't need for F2P to happen to be successful.

 

That's hard to know. I think we've been told the majority of CM purchases are from subscribers, but not what kind of subscribers they were - vets or new conversions thanks to F2P? I think in the end, both systems helped them keep the game floating and then profiting.

Edited November 5, 2015 by hadoken

[LordArtemis]

I disagree. F2P most likely needed to happen with the Market. It is unlikely the trend would have been reversed if only a market was launched, and even less likely if F2P was not implemented.

 

Both saved this game.

 

I would also point out, only in my opinion mind you, that the original dev team, their attitude, arrogance and refusal to change the game played a large part in the exodus.

 

I mean, these are the folks that didn't think the game needed a GTN or groupfinder..no need to have any substantial end game content in place..the folks that insulted players that wanted something more than space on rails. They had to go.

Edited November 5, 2015 by LordArtemis

[TUXs]

hmm hard to know, if you put it at last 30 days you can see there's been some ups and downs. Could just be a down.

 

Regardless he backpedaled anyway and is now claiming he meant population since the launch of the game. Which, well, duh.

 

Also, we don't entirely know what they did hardware wise recently in trying to make things easier for people to get in and stay in - they could very well have increased capacity which would naturally make everything lower than it was.

Very good point!

 

Also, I wasn't trying to say he's right or wrong...players are so spread out now that it's hard to judge any longer. I was just supplying the only means we have to support/disprove his theory...but again, the server side updates they've been making have very possibly skewed high and low caps.

[TUXs]

I mean, these are the folks that didn't think the game needed a GTN or groupfinder....the folks that insulted players that wanted something more than space on rails. They had to go.

Or more than 2 windows opened at a time, or customization, or guild mail or more than 1 Operation...

 

I admire the team we have now for most additions...I just wish they'd take PvP and balance more seriously.

[hadoken]

Very good point!

 

Also, I wasn't trying to say he's right or wrong...players are so spread out now that it's hard to judge any longer. I was just supplying the only means we have to support/disprove his theory...but again, the server side updates they've been making have very possibly skewed high and low caps.

 

Yea it might be he was using that, but given he gave up on defending that (instead of providing something like you did) I'm thinking it unlikely heh. It's really easy to be myopic or surrounded by people of similar mind that just reinforce your beliefs, when the overall picture may be entirely different. He could be right too, of course. But he just wasn't really doing anything other than thumping his own opinion in a number of threads.

Edited November 5, 2015 by hadoken

[heythereqt]

And yet the server populations are plummeting and its barely a week out from the release of this 'expansion'. The numbers are easy to see on planets, in guild online and on the fleets. From what I am seeing we are below the 12x XP runup to KotFE. Harbinger went from heavy all through 12x XP at peak to standard tonight at peak and most of last weekend.

 

Its easy to see that we are in worse shape than before this 'expansion' . Story, BW's 4th pillar that they put all faith into, was met with a resounding NO at release by the vast majority and almost had this entire game shut down quickly. F2P keeps the server power on but for how long?

 

What shocks me is how quickly people tired of it.

 

Haha...

 

Well let me go ahead and share my experiences with you then. For two weeks after the initial release of 4.0, I hit the server login queue 4 different times, on 4 different days, for the first time in over a year. I played nearly everyday for that year, so I would know if there was a queue. My guild went from being somewhat inactive and limping along, to having at least 10 people on at all times, closer to 20 during primetime hours. Keep in mind that we have always been known as a small, casual guild. Guild chat is booming now with so many people, and the general consensus is that the majority of the members came back to try out KOTFE, are really enjoying it so far, and plan on staying for future content and chapter releases. I am the guild manager, so I go out of my way to get the opinions of other members like this. I'm not making this stuff up.

 

Populations on various planets have multiplied dramatically from what they used to be. I went to Dromund Kaas to do heroics yesterday and literally had to wait for mobs to spawn because there were over 10 people in the same area, doing the same heroic I was doing. In addition, tactical flashpoint queues have been almost instantaneous, and pvp queues are much quicker than they were pre-4.0. I play on Harbinger, by the way.

 

Not sure what world you're living in if you think that "server populations are plummeting." You clearly have a negative bias towards the game and have to resort to making things up in order to prove just how gosh darn horrible Bioware is. Just have fun playing the game mate! If you can't do that, then move on to a new one.

Edited November 5, 2015 by heythereqt

[TUXs]

Yea it might be he was using that, but given he gave up on defending that (instead of providing something like you did) I'm thinking it unlikely heh. It's really easy to be myopic or surrounded by people of similar mind that just reinforce your beliefs, when the overall picture may be entirely different. He could be right too, of course. But he just wasn't really doing anything other than thumping his own opinion in a number of threads.

Agreed! Hell, in my guild, I don't think there's one person who doesn't like the update so far...players are on more, doing more and more active than I've seen them in at least a year. I think they've responded better to 4.0 than they did to 3.0...Thank God none of them read my forum posts and know what a negative Nancy I can be

 

All joking aside...perspective is VERY powerful! Thank God I play with people who enjoy this game and are willing to teach me what they've learned...their excitement and kindness is amazingly infectious!

[Uruare]

ROFL! Wait you're serious?! Oh...

 

Well let me go ahead and share my experiences with you then. For two weeks after the initial release of 4.0, I hit the server login queue 4 different times, on 4 different days, for the first time in over a year. I played nearly everyday for that year, so I would know if there was a queue. My guild went from being somewhat inactive and limping along, to having at least 10 people on at all times, closer to 20 during primetime hours. Keep in mind that we have always been known as a small, casual guild. Guild chat is booming now with so many people, and the general consensus is that the majority of the members came back to try out KOTFE, are really enjoying it so far, and plan on staying for future content and chapter releases. I am the guild manager, so I go out of my way to get the opinions of other members like this. I'm not making this stuff up.

 

Populations on various planets have multiplied dramatically from what they used to be. I went to Dromund Kaas to do heroics yesterday and literally had to wait for mobs to spawn because there were over 10 people in the same area, doing the same heroic I was doing. In addition, tactical flashpoint queues have been almost instantaneous, and pvp queues are much quicker than they were pre-4.0. I play on Harbinger, by the way.

 

Not sure what world you're living in if you think that "server populations are plummeting." You clearly have a negative bias towards the game and have to resort to making things up in order to prove just how gosh darn horrible Bioware is. Just have fun playing the game mate! If you can't do that, then move on to a new one.

 

My experience has been very similar, though I'm on Ebon Hawke, so ixnay ne frequent queue login times. We're not as populous as Harb, but we've certainly become moreso lately as far as my eyes can see.

 

Two guilds I'm in that were much as you described have picked up dramatically. Lots of returning players being added to the rosters, HM's being run .. God... Incessantly.

 

It literally went from being a bit hard to find people in these guilds to run anything with to now, I have to hide when I'm on if I want to do anything other than tank some HM's or ops.

 

If this is what plummeting server populations and the doom of everything looks like, bring me more Armageddon. I like these problems.

[GalacticKegger]

I disagree. F2P most likely needed to happen with the Market. It is unlikely the trend would have been reversed if only a market was launched, and even less likely if F2P was not implemented.

 

Both saved this game.

 

I would also point out, only in my opinion mind you, that the original dev team, their attitude, arrogance and refusal to change the game played a large part in the exodus.

 

I mean, these are the folks that didn't think the game needed a GTN or groupfinder..no need to have any substantial end game content in place..the folks that insulted players that wanted something more than space on rails. They had to go.

I personally believe that the Cartel Market alone would have been enough to rebound this game. It just would have taken longer had the increased exposure brought on by F2P not happened. Which is why I mentioned that the Cartel Market had a lot to do with it and not solely to do with it. @Hadoken is right, we'll likely never know how much F2P players actually contribute(d) to the bottom line, whether by CM purchases or conversion to subs.

 

And I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of the original dev & management teams. It took those shakeups for this game to advance.

Edited November 5, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[Sprigget]

Agreed! Hell, in my guild, I don't think there's one person who doesn't like the update so far...players are on more, doing more and more active than I've seen them in at least a year. I think they've responded better to 4.0 than they did to 3.0...Thank God none of them read my forum posts and know what a negative Nancy I can be

 

All joking aside...perspective is VERY powerful! Thank God I play with people who enjoy this game and are willing to teach me what they've learned...their excitement and kindness is amazingly infectious!

 

Sadly, I'm seeing the exact opposite from both guilds I'm part of. Everyone was excited about the 4.0 update until they finished the available KotFE story, now everyone's bailing and finding other stuff to do.

[MikeRindos]

Sadly, I'm seeing the exact opposite from both guilds I'm part of. Everyone was excited about the 4.0 update until they finished the available KotFE story, now everyone's bailing and finding other stuff to do.

You're right are. Because, deep down no one likes when a company. Forces there customers into doing an activity. That take away anyones right to say no.

Edited November 6, 2015 by MikeRindos

[Mikahrone]

But it has now, I've seen Very Heavy out of multiple servers since 4.0 hit, not even just Harbinger.

 

Thats the point for the poster that claimed "harbringer was standard all weekend".

[Juromaro]

Server pops are listed as "Standard" on high pop realms because Bioware upped the server cap, Ebon Hawk most planets I've been on past balmorra/taris(level 20's) have had multiple maps at all kinds of hours for the first time since double xp weekends.

[LordArtemis]

I believe the game is relatively healthy at the moment....not breaking down the doors, but not exactly struggling either. That is just my unqualified biased opinion mind you....but it is how I see it.

 

I think that they take one step forward, one back. I think this is SOP, and it hurts the games chances to really hit it out of the park. Some of the mistakes they make, IMO, could not be avoided or forseen...others I think they should have known beforehand....or known better to put it properly.

 

But no company is perfect, and this team, despite some serious setbacks and mistakes IMO, is head and SHOULDERS above the original dev team. The things they have added to this game....they saved the game from oblivion IMO and continue to do so.

 

Yes, I think this is pretty close to what people want, with some notable exceptions.

[Nihilkult]

This post should be put onto Reddit or any big name gaming site as it sums up why the game is falling apart. If people want story then go get a book or a single player game, this is an MMO and it should have MMO content. F2P isn't going to help them that much longer, and from what I've been reading Disney may take a look at that contract they have with EA after Battlefront bombs in a few weeks.

 

Really TOR is just yet another slap in the face to us gamers this year. I think we'll see some huge changes next year with just about all the big name titles looking like they are going to bomb.

Something you don't get :

- SWTOR is based on KOTOR universe , which were VERY successful single player games.

- Bioware decides for some reason that the next stuff linked to Kotor should be an mmo instead of a single player game.

- TONS of players who wanted a Kotor 3 and NOT an mmo pop up in SWTOR.

- Endless war between "True MMO'ers" and soloers ensue.

 

If you think Swtor is your regular mmo you must be on shrooms. It became more like an rpg with mmo elements than the inverse because of that kotor fanbase which is there since the beginning and will ALWAYS be there. There is ONE game like that on the market, you have TONS of MMOs which will cater to you in terms of raids, pvp etc. Stop whining.

 

Seriously, try to launch a conversation about kotor on general. You'll see how many people are here for this game and not for the mmo part.

[Jumajin]

Something you don't get :

- SWTOR is based on KOTOR universe , which were VERY successful single player games.

- Bioware decides for some reason that the next stuff linked to Kotor should be an mmo instead of a single player game.

- TONS of players who wanted a Kotor 3 and NOT an mmo pop up in SWTOR.

- Endless war between "True MMO'ers" and soloers ensue.

 

If you think Swtor is your regular mmo you must be on shrooms. It became more like an rpg with mmo elements than the inverse because of that kotor fanbase which is there since the beginning and will ALWAYS be there. There is ONE game like that on the market, you have TONS of MMOs which will cater to you in terms of raids, pvp etc. Stop whining.

 

Seriously, try to launch a conversation about kotor on general. You'll see how many people are here for this game and not for the mmo part.

 

That is true. The fundamental difference, though, is that neither KOTOR game required a subscription. Even if released today as full-on $60 games, that would still only equate to four months of SWTOR at the regular month-by-month price.

 

So, for SWTOR to maintain subscriptions throughout a year, which is obviously what EA is going for with this KoFTE must subscribe, cannot buy it separately like the previous two expansions, they are going to need to also continue the MMO elements along with it. And I mean new MMO elements.

 

I'm not even a raider in SWTOR, not even close, and already after playing the story four times, and seeing the Alliance system just once, I'm on the fence about continuing to subscribe, or just waiting until six, or all seven, of the remaining chapters are released and then just subscribing then for a month or so to see them. I've done the Flashpoints to death, and have already done Star Fortress to death. I can't fathom grinding out the Alliance supply crates through the same old Heroics over and over again on more than one character. After already seeing the same story four times now, my other level 60 Alts look to just rot. The story is good, but not that good.

 

So unless they have a magic rabbit up their sleeve, I cannot imagine KoTFE sustaining the game as it stands, when eight individual class stories alone could not sustain it at launch. Thus F2P a mere 11 months later, and the game surviving primarily thanks to the Cartel Market.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Jumajin

[monkeyrobot]

I think you are all confused, you want to sit around for 6 months at a time waiting for an afternoon's entertainment. Then you don't want an mmo, you want a MOVIE!! And great news, there's a Star Wars movie coming out in 2 months!! I'll see you all there but in the meantime I'd like my mmo back because this is not a mmo PC game, this is an advanced version of a read-along book. I used to read those when I was like 7 yrs old. "If you want to jump over the puddle turn to page 63. If you want to go around the puddle instead, then turn to page 89." Either way you're on the other side of the puddle!! Congratulations you finished Chapter 1 - The Puddle, now please wait patiently for 6 more months as we move on to Chapter 2 - The Hill.

 

Come on people!!

 

Best post ever!

[Psychopyro]

Does a link supporting his assertion make it true?

http://www.torstatus.net/the-harbinger/history/7d#!/the-harbinger/history/7d

It's the best tool we have to judge his accuracy with and it seems as though he's correct.

 

You do know they don't track anything over Very Heavy... And I am not even sure they track Very Heavy accurately, because I know for damn sure that Harb was Very Heavy and Full during some of the listed times for a couple hours. And for population trend, they don't even check against anything higher then Heavy...

 

I mean hell the website has not even had a tracked update in over 3 YEARS!

[Ouardajason]

yes

 

 

 

 

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

i'm an old-fashioned mmo player, i've been playing mmos for a long time. I'm also a star wars fan, old republic was a great mix of the two. That's why i'm here. But personally, i think this new direction of swtor is just a big mess. They keep saying "oh ya, all players really want nowadays is more story, more epicness". Really!!??

 

Do you really want all of bioware's resources tied up for months & months to partake in a stream-lined, cut scene infested story arc that can be finished in an afternoon? You don't want any new pvp content? No new operations? Yes i realize these things "may be coming in the near future" but in the meantime this new storyline content just has no re-playability at all. How many times are you willing to follow lana the "jedi-wannabe sith" through a swamp? I've been told that this is what players really want and i find it hard to believe.

 

I think you are all confused, you want to sit around for 6 months at a time waiting for an afternoon's entertainment. Then you don't want an mmo, you want a movie!! And great news, there's a star wars movie coming out in 2 months!! I'll see you all there but in the meantime i'd like my mmo back because this is not a mmo pc game, this is an advanced version of a read-along book. I used to read those when i was like 7 yrs old. "if you want to jump over the puddle turn to page 63. If you want to go around the puddle instead, then turn to page 89." either way you're on the other side of the puddle!! Congratulations you finished chapter 1 - the puddle, now please wait patiently for 6 more months as we move on to chapter 2 - the hill.

 

Come on people!!