PoliteAssasin Posted October 5, 2015 Author Share Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Your "substance" consists merely of your Marr fanboyism. If the story calls for him to get killed, deal with it. If you want Marr to live and kick butt, write a fan fic. That is a weak rebuttal and you know it. This has nothing to do with fanboyism, and everything to do with inconsistent rules. Nowhere in your inane rambling did you even attempt to address the valid criticism I levied towards this poor excuse for a plot. Your inability to recognize a poorly written story does not negate reality. The fact that chapter 1 is already beginning with such glaring plot holes does not bode well for the remainder of the expansion. Let me boil this down to something you may be capable of understanding: An eagle effortlessly kills a hawk, and yet we are expected to believe that a beetle is worthy enough to even give it pause. In case I have to spell it out for you, the beetle in this story is representative of non force users. Interesting that you should suggest fanfic, because I did not expect that level of writing in a Bioware game. Seems I set my expectations a little too high. Edited October 5, 2015 by PoliteAssasin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool-dude Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) According to Moff Valion Pyron, the Dark council only consists of the most powerful Sith in the galaxy. Edited October 6, 2015 by cool-dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefertuss Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 (edited) According to Moff Valion Pyron, the Dark council only consists of the most powerful Sith in the galaxy. What does Pyron know of the sith ways? Power is subjective, you don't need to be Chuck Norris to claim a seat on the council. The Dark lords are politicians as much as warriors, and most of them have come to where they are through cunning schemes and carefully planned power plays, rather than their prowess in battle. Edited October 6, 2015 by Nefertuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Plot armor. Our characters have it. Most NPCs do not. And I don't think Marr is dead for sure, I'll only believe it when I see it. Wasn't there a mined audio clip where Beniko says she could feel him 'passing' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 He's old and dying! It's not that he's tough, it's that he's built a reputation of being tough that survived his old age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Any SIth being as long on the Dark Council as he was is close to miraculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 He's old and dying! It's not that he's tough, it's that he's built a reputation of being tough that survived his old age. He's not dying from age I thought but from going to deep in the dark side? Even so as Nimmer said. The fact he's been on the council this long and either defeated/dissuaded others from challenging his rule? Pretty damn impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Nice spoiler tag....oh wait. Dudes... ***... put spoiler tags omg... Et alia. You people do know that this thread is specifically in the [spoilers] subsection of the story forum, yes? Stop crying. It's like shooting yourself in the foot out of inattentiveness and then blaming the hunting shop owner because they sold you the gun. OT: I have addressed this in more than one thread that it's pretty silly how Valkorion just wipes the floor with Marr like it ain't no thang. It is terrible writing, leaving his death completely without impact: swatted like a fly doesn't make for a compelling or heart-wrenching loss. It simply makes no sense. It's like a child on the playground trying to out-do his friend's story: "Your dad is in the military? Well MY DAD is a ninja who can kill someone in a million ways at once!" I've seen better writing from a friend's Grade one classes than I've seen out of Bioware from KOTFE thus far. And funny someone should mention fan-fiction. We have plenty of examples of better writing from fans already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Et alia. You people do know that this thread is specifically in the [spoilers] subsection of the story forum, yes? Stop crying. It's like shooting yourself in the foot out of inattentiveness and then blaming the hunting shop owner because they sold you the gun. OT: I have addressed this in more than one thread that it's pretty silly how Valkorion just wipes the floor with Marr like it ain't no thang. It is terrible writing, leaving his death completely without impact: swatted like a fly doesn't make for a compelling or heart-wrenching loss. It simply makes no sense. It's like a child on the playground trying to out-do his friend's story: "Your dad is in the military? Well MY DAD is a ninja who can kill someone in a million ways at once!" I've seen better writing from a friend's Grade one classes than I've seen out of Bioware from KOTFE thus far. And funny someone should mention fan-fiction. We have plenty of examples of better writing from fans already. How about you wait for the kriffing expac before judging how Marr is treated in it? So far, we've seen him die, one minute of dialogue by Valkorion and then end of stream. We have zero idea how much impact his death will have (Without relying on datamined content that is.). And really, is that surprising for Vitiate, you know, the guy who ate an entire planet, to be able to one-shot Marr? Is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) How about you wait for the kriffing expac before judging how Marr is treated in it? So far, we've seen him die, one minute of dialogue by Valkorion and then end of stream. We have zero idea how much impact his death will have (Without relying on datamined content that is.). And really, is that surprising for Vitiate, you know, the guy who ate an entire planet, to be able to one-shot Marr? Is it? Be realistic. We know the circumstances of his death. I've had more emotional relationships with mosquitos I've hunted down in my apartment than I do with Marr dying - especially as I main Republic. He's literally smacked down like a gnat. And here's where that truly starts to show how bad of writing it is: Marr is at least as powerful as the player character Force-users, and certainly much stronger than the non-Force-sensitive classes. This has been pointed out already, several times in this thread alone. There's literally no reason at all why Valkorion wouldn't just turn slightly to the side and kill the player also. None. Whatsoever. Force-blind classes aren't even slightly a threat, and if anything, the Force-sensitive ones would be a bigger threat than Marr because they have equal strength in the Force and are in the prime of life (instead of kicking 60 as Marr is). If he can kill Marr so easily, if he actually is Vitiate and can wipe a planet from existence in seconds, he can bloody well kill the player. If Valkorion is ******** his pants in terror over us because of a prophecy, why in all Seven Circles of Hell would he not kill us too? Because the prophecy says that no living man can kill us, Witch-king of Angmar style? Fine! Maybe he should have invested in Vaylin a little more and we'd be also be pushing daisies. It makes ZERO sense why the player also survives the encounter besides blatant plot armor. Valkorion is a terrible villain, the scenario as a whole is terrible, and the writers should be ashamed. Edited October 8, 2015 by Diviciacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Et alia. You people do know that this thread is specifically in the [spoilers] subsection of the story forum, yes? Stop crying. It's like shooting yourself in the foot out of inattentiveness and then blaming the hunting shop owner because they sold you the gun. OT: I have addressed this in more than one thread that it's pretty silly how Valkorion just wipes the floor with Marr like it ain't no thang. It is terrible writing, leaving his death completely without impact: swatted like a fly doesn't make for a compelling or heart-wrenching loss. It simply makes no sense. It's like a child on the playground trying to out-do his friend's story: "Your dad is in the military? Well MY DAD is a ninja who can kill someone in a million ways at once!" I've seen better writing from a friend's Grade one classes than I've seen out of Bioware from KOTFE thus far. And funny someone should mention fan-fiction. We have plenty of examples of better writing from fans already. As I mentioned before. He didn't have a lightsaber and he was blasted just as he turned around on a narrow walkway which provided no room to dodge. Marr is a lightsaber master and without his weapon of choice he's kind of unarmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 As I mentioned before. He didn't have a lightsaber and he was blasted just as he turned around on a narrow walkway which provided no room to dodge. Marr is a lightsaber master and without his weapon of choice he's kind of unarmed. And the player was clapped in irons - and that only even slightly matters if they're Force-sensitive. Agent? Smuggler? BH? Trooper? Say goodbye. The entire scene is written worse than washroom graffiti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 *snip* Did you miss the part where Valkorion invites the player to kneel and join him? Marr is a demonstration of his power. Of course he isn't going to target the player when he is trying to show his power to him/her. Marr wouldn't be that good an ally. He has proved before that he was tired of Vitiate/Valk's absence and felt the Empire was better off without him AND he was dying anyway. Second, and we are entering spoiler and datamined territory: It seems Marr can survive the encounter through preparation and Influence grind. Rumors are the achievement is gone but no one even knew how to get it so it may simply have been hidden on the PTS. Third: Marr comes back as a Force Ghost. And really, Marr's death isn't worse writting than Vitiate as a whole. At least, they are accepting that he is a total Villain Sue and are making him act like one. Plus, if the "cut" stills from "Sacrifice" are any indications, we might yet see Darth Malgus again, seeing as Marr and Malgus are pretty similar, with Malgus being just a wee bit more crazy, I can understand why they would write off Marr. Anyway, I persist: Wait for the expac before saying his death has no impact on the narrative. It may not have an impact on you, but your opinion isn't the deciding factor of a story's quality, only your appreciation (Or its absence) of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leklor Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 And the player was clapped in irons - and that only even slightly matters if they're Force-sensitive. Agent? Smuggler? BH? Trooper? Say goodbye. The entire scene is written worse than washroom graffiti. I may be double posting but this is exactly the cause of your problem with this scene: You have decided that Valkorion wants to kill the player and is somehow unable to do so. Yet everything seems to indicate the contrary: -Killing Marr but leaving the player standing around, unhurt. -Offering him to kneel and join him. -Earlier at the end of Ziost, claiming that life is more interesting with them in it and so he will keep them alive 'till the very end. It's quite likely that even when you refuse to kneel and (probably) fight him, Valkorion isn't using his full power while he did against Marr because to his plan, Marr was at best a distraction and at worst an annoyance. He seems to think the player can genuinly be a worthwhile ally, for many reasons. But Marr, at this point, is not only "broken" but he is also useless. He won't be able to bring the Sith Empire to heel even is submitted. His forces have been wiped out by Arcann, he is dying. And he stubornly refuses to bend the knee, kills several of Valk's guard and tries (And fails) to kill him. Which is why Valk kills him. He has no use for Marr at all, either as a mouthpiece, as a weapon or as a symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 And the player was clapped in irons - and that only even slightly matters if they're Force-sensitive. Agent? Smuggler? BH? Trooper? Say goodbye. The entire scene is written worse than washroom graffiti. Don't see how that changes anything. Your player isn't fighting him. Force sensitive or not your player in the same situation would also be annihilated. Marr had no way of defending himself. The term is being killed unarmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith-Viscera Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Who's to say he's actually dead? Yup, what he said. Marr could be playing Possum of course. Then when the new Emp turns away from his guards to pick his nose. Marr jumps up and using force speed, now standing behind the Emp. Marr sticks his arm over New Eps Left shoulder and offers him a Handkerchief. (you know so he can wipe the nasty booger on it) Then when he turns around to See who was so Kind. He sees Marr standing there with mask off , eyes burning Red with flames and his Secondary half light saber, {he had hidden in his boot} had just sliced his gut, wide open. And then the New Emperor gazes down at the gaping, but cauterize gash. Just to watch his own Viscera, spill out onto the throne room floor. Marr turns to Arcane and force pulls him towards him. Marr grabs him, and bends him over his knee and spanks him til Arcane's half mask falls off. Exposing his CRYING, horrendously burned and melted, baby face. While Arcane has no choice but to watch his fathers entrails hanging out the large hole Marr made. And as Marr continue the BUTT beating, that the little brat deserved. The Emperor's elite guards all break out in a song and dance. **** Ding dong the EMPEROR IS DEAD! Which ole Emperor? The New Infinite EMPEROR! Ding dong The Emperor is DEEEAAADDDDD!!!!!!!**** TY TY TY Please do not applaud me, Just Throw LOTS AND LOTS AND LOTS of MONEY AT ME. Please use all paper money do to the jingling kind hurts...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 There's literally no reason at all why Valkorion wouldn't just turn slightly to the side and kill the player also. None. Whatsoever. You do not know that. From what I've heard Arcann kills Valkorians current host and accuses and imprisons the PC for it? What if that was part of whatever Valkorians plans are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 You do not know that. From what I've heard Arcann kills Valkorians current host and accuses and imprisons the PC for it? What if that was part of whatever Valkorians plans are? Not to mention he didn't just "Decide to kill." Marr. He decided to kill him because Marr refused to kneel, challenged him, and started attacking the Knights. Your character didn't make that mistake so he doesn't attack you. I don't understand why some people in this thread are trying to claim it makes no sense why he kills marr but not you when it's very clear why. Marr didn't have to attack him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutinArbiter Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 As Rhyltran said, Marr seriously abused the durability of his plot armor. One does not simply make a ruckus after spitting in the face of Swtor's version of Palpatine and not expect some painful retaliation. Plus we don't even know for sure if Marr died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 As Rhyltran said, Marr seriously abused the durability of his plot armor. One does not simply make a ruckus after spitting in the face of Swtor's version of Palpatine and not expect some painful retaliation. Plus we don't even know for sure if Marr died. As much as I love Marr, this. To be honest what Marr did was awesome, prior to being killed and like others have said he may not be dead. Hey that rhymed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Spoiler tags please! Some of us are actually waiting for the xpac to come out and have avoided the game play vids and blogs. Thanks. You're in a forum called "Spoilers". What is discussed here is self evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sappharan Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I wrote this stupid thing, might answer your questions, sort of. Because hey, sometimes the force decides, y'know? Though I very much agree with the skepticism and distaste of mundane agents being so integral to the story, your explanation makes a LOT of sense. I like it. Far and away the best rationale I have seen yet. I still do not like what is happening, but your theory makes it a lot easier to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juromaro Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 You're in a forum called "Spoilers". What is discussed here is self evident. This thread used to be in general discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Though I very much agree with the skepticism and distaste of mundane agents being so integral to the story, your explanation makes a LOT of sense. I like it. Far and away the best rationale I have seen yet. I still do not like what is happening, but your theory makes it a lot easier to accept. You mean the non-force using PC's? They're far from mudane agents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makrogai Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Well to be fair this is the Sith emperor at Peak power, and as said Marr was unnarmed And we can basically count every single non force sensetive class aside from maybe the Mandolorian as Cannon since lets be fair, Neither The smuggler, the trooper or the imperial agent would have stood a single chance against a jedi/dark councill member or revan for more than a couple of seconds. But this pretty much confirms that Satele shan is going to die aswell. Both the poster boys of the Empire (Marr and malgus) has died, it seems only fair that we get to kill Satele aswell. Eitherway, they really want to make us feel like the Republic and empire is struggling to survive. Just a question, is the trade federation a thing or Kamino? Prehaps the Empire can turn to the Gunray legacy for assistance and get battledroids, then prehaps the republic Can create clones so we stand a chance against the Zakuul Empire. How would it make sense (If these things are a thing in this time and space) Simple, after Swtor, the empire is destroyed and all their connections with the Trade federation is lost, They then dissapear into the shadows untill the the prequels.. Recovering after the countless wars, the republic can no longer afford to keep up the production of clones. Someone Erases all the records of any involvement of the past, and sets in motion Palpatines plans even before he's born. He's ****** like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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