Poll: who likes level sync and who doesn't

[Reno_Tarshil]

True, I guess we're still waiting for the roadmap to be released

 

It would be nice if they communicated with their community, but as you said, considering the "better than cross server" that keeps getting thrown back at them, I'm sure they have reasons not to bother. Sad times though when a developer can't at least try to communicate properly anymore.

 

I absolutely know MMOs copy off each other (not just this genre of games either). It would be nice if they could be original in the interpretation of differing systems, and add their own "flavour" to things. Straight out copying? Pretty un-imaginative. That was more of an observation than anything, call it "wishful thinking" that I doubt they'll ever deliver, along with many other things.

 

To be fair of the 4 MMOs I've ever played, Runescape, GW1&2, WoW and SWTOR, I haven't really seen a min-game similar to Space PvE/PvP.

[Transcendent]

To be fair of the 4 MMOs I've ever played, Runescape, GW1&2, WoW and SWTOR, I haven't really seen a min-game similar to Space PvE/PvP.

 

GSF... *still wondering if they'll ever add controller support*, the on rails missions were fun, shame the original team of developers got chopped back so drastically after launch, otherwise we may have seen more of these mini-games appear over time. I'd still have loved to see pod racing

[Reno_Tarshil]

GSF... *still wondering if they'll ever add controller support*, the on rails missions were fun, shame the original team of developers got chopped back so drastically after launch, otherwise we may have seen more of these mini-games appear over time. I'd still have loved to see pod racing

 

If GSF had a PvE variant I'd be playing it a lot.

[ZeroTypeR]

Not a simple yes or no in my eyes. But here goes.

As optional yes thats fine but then you have the problem of if the rewards are to great. Like wow, garrisons were heralded as optional however, the reward was so great, it really wasn't. That optional feeling is really a technicality and it's then pretty much a requirement.

 

Fine line in what you are asking from a design perspective and again nothing that couldn't be preserved in an optional setting so playing the game you have been is still entertaining but it doesn't come with the increased reward. Take on the down leveling debuff and better rewards are opened up to you. (lose the buff, lose the reward)

 

But as far as a straight copy of GW2. We'll there is a reason I'm no longer playing that game and down scaling is one.

 

 

 

I can see so many other options other than just "damnit, force them all" . 4 years of playing SWTOR, enjoying how it was played, this game didn't need down leveling to be forced and yes, BW is missing an opportunity for something a bit more interesting than what forced down leveling does.

 

Since GW2's been brought up, that's also the reason I VERY (nostalgia only) rarely play that game. Optional atleast gives people a choice and there always the option (On BW's end) of adding two new mandatory sync servers (PVP and PVE) for those who want sync, with a 1 time option to transferr characters to whichever server, win win for everyone.

 

I write this because I actually LIKE this game, but it's BW's decision in the end.

[Quraswren]

1. No. You are still an average of 4 levels above the mobs. Aggro range for a level 28 player on a 24-27 planet is minor and not a problem at all.

So the answer is yes but you can't say it .

2. No. We already saw that Musco was able to pretty much two-three shot even golden mobs in an heroic area without any issues. If you think that two hitting a mob is so much worse than one hitting it, you're really a lost cause. Here is a little something I actually love to point out: People claim that they think it is unfair that something they have worked for is taken away. Now you have to work for it. After KotFE that claim is finally substantial. I mean: That's what you want, isn't it? To work for gear.

So the answer is yes again and you still wont say yes. You see it right there. It will take even slightly longer. one hit or 3 hits means little other than adding time.

3. Not really. The abilities you unlock in higher tiers of content (i.g the 57 discipline ability) is still a lot stronger than anything a level 18 toon has. A level 18 toon also doesn't have set bonus. Your level 65 character is still more powerful than anything on the actual level.

And again, a yes but damn. You just can't say it. You will be a level 65 down scaled to level 18 and everything you do will be decreased by some percentage. There is not a damn thing trilling about that in comparison to what I was already playing. It's a negative. Not a big negative but a negative none the less in something that would be better off for everyone if made optional.

 

I claim minority because that's what this is. Another claim, just like disciplines. Just like "no new operations at launch". Just like "No new nightmare operations.". A fraction of players disagrees. End of story. There is no evidence that the faction "level synch is bad" is a majority now. It was during all the cases I mentioned above, it still is. Frankly: Most people probably don't care as long as they are still above the planets level.

You claim minority and nothing else. I claim more than you think want optional. More people see it as something interesting but not needed as forced.

Take this example: WOW. A game SWTOR is clearly based off of and called a clone of wow in more ways than one. This very change spurred wow to ask what they would want. Given the games are so similar and the poll is asked in regards to the changes in SWTOR, I'd say it decent information to have:

Poll - Level Scaling

Would you like to have your character scale down to a zone's target level in WoW? What would you do with this feature if it was implemented?

 

Yes, optionally 52.83% (30,563 votes)

No 29.58% (17,115 votes)

Yes, always 17.59% (10,179 votes)

 

Total Votes: 57,857

If there was a majority. I'd wager it something different than what you think.

WOW poll basedoff SWTOR

 

Yes, it is. You might not consider it "worth it", but I know a lot of people who have never experienced all the Heroics on a planet. Now they can do that and still get an actual reward out of it. This is an active step against what has been a plague to some MMOs since release: Making content obsolete. A lot of time has gone into the base game. Alderaan and Voss are still some of the most beautiful worlds in the game. Now I can appreciate that AND get rewards from that. It finally makes ALL the content in an MMO worth playing to get rewards, not just the most recent patch.

If they didn't experience them, then it's really their own damn fault. No reason to not go back, even if out leveled.

But I agree that going back for some reward is fine. I'm not saying get rid of down leveling. Just don't make that crap forced on everyone when optional is a better way to go about it. Hard to say content is obsolete when I was still enjoying it even at max level and you act as if there going to give some great reward for doing a H2. Clearly you don't know BW.

 

Besides: We have no actual way of knowing how level synch will be expanded. It might be the start of some minor open world PvP development. Who knows?

Pull whatever you want out of your *****. Dream a little dream of what might happen. Down leveling should still be optional.

 

So much discourse? Again, this is nothing new. People did this with disciplines, with GSF and with F2P. They always bugged Bioware about it and eventually realized that it wasn't all that bad/was something you could get used to. You still level up in this game. You still unlock the freedom to travel and explore every world by unlocking new levels. Just because older worlds are still a challenge doesn't mean there is no reward for leveling up.

 

What makes you think I like disciplines? GSF is decent and F2P had to happen to make sure their first failures could be recovered without a total loss. Not something to really praise over. Thank God there are a still enough pros to make it worth while but I also see this game on a teeter totter. So easily could go south or north but as far as forced leveling goes. Thats a game feature that from design day one should have been made optional and not released till it was.

 

It can't work as an optional feature. I've pointed that out. Not with grieving, world boss cp stealing and farming materials on a world.

And I've pointed out why it would. In multiple threads. Some closed and some still open. I've covered griefing, I've covered world bosses, kill stealing, having the buff and dropping it, the heroic terminal and possible exploits and I'm sure a few others thing.

 

You'd be hard pressed to make me think this HAD to be forced on every single gamer when something like FF14 can pull it off as optional.

 

The 25% who actually dislike this change turning it off would eventually force the 75% who are indifferent or like it into a situation where they have to turn it off or face a serious disadvantage for it. That would cause the system to go downhill and all the work on it was wasted.

Love those made up numbers but I'll use something a bit more substantial.

The nearly 53% of gamers that like the idea of optional more than forced. The really small 18% that think forced was the way to go and the near twice that number who hate the very idea of down leveling.

The only down hill is thinking this had to forced on everyone after 4 years of SWTOR and enjoying how the game was played only to join it Oct 20 and now you got this extra hoop to jump though to try to get back a little of that same reason you had been playing but now every time you join, that same hurdle is there. Thats not an entertaining thought to me after this long in SWTOR.

 

I also don't want to think about all the possible ways an optional level synch system can be abused.

Yes, lets not make it optional because of some imagined possibilities.

Sorry but thtas some poor design input if thats all thats hindering you.

 

Then you have to move on. Because, guess what? This feature is coming. Bioware hasn't spend a load of money and programming time on this feature and re-designing old heroics just so a forum minority (which this is, again. Go read Ghostcrawlers clarification post about Riots stance on "We know better". Some good insight into forums and negative comments there.) can sour it for the community. And you won't get an optional feature at least until January because the focus is elsewhere. If at all.

I may have too. There is no doubt about that. 4 years may go down the tub after I play the story. No new end game. No new PVP, No near heroics. No new FPs. Just story.

 

You're heroics are the same. There not changed. Just the terminal rewards. You're doing the same 4 year old crap.

The things I used to do and enjoy now have the useless extra hurdle that doesn't actually make it better to do and thats a waste really.

 

Oh, the issue isn't that the pile isn't big enough. The issue is that there is still something inside that pile people want. That's what is keeping them digging through it.

 

to bad there are things gamers want. They want optional game play most of all. Not forced. Too bad BW can't see that.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Quraswren

[TravelersWay]

No one is saying fun should never not be the focal point. But people are being sensational when they site other games that have "suffered the consequences" for a bad decision.

Actually, it's just stating the plain, simple truth of the matter. There's nothing sensational about it. In fact, it's quite sad, because of the potential those games could have offered to the gaming community if the devs had just made smarter decisions (I'm talking about all types of games, not just MMOs).

 

This is not going to break the game, this is not going to cause a mass exodus of players and all things considered this is going to add more activities worth doing than otherwise.

I never said that it was going to break the game or be the doom of SWTOR. Most people haven't, aside from community trolls. Whether it causes a mass exodus or not is irrelevant, in a manner of speaking. The game has thus far survived all exoduses, but in the end, its usually the Death from a Thousand Cuts that does the real damaage.

 

Literally the only arguments that are being made here are

 

"I don't want to deal with mob aggro"

"My levels are mine and should not be taken away from me"

"my idea of fun in swtor is one shotting greys"

"it's immersion breaking"

 

If you value those above, no one can take them from you, it is entirely subjective to the individual, but you can't possibly think those reasons hold any actual water man.

 

And you are right BW does know how important it is to try and cater to the desires of as many players as possible, within reason.... this is also the forum community that had a vocal bunch demanding the ability to respect your base class.......

Oversimplifying things naturally, but in the end, the reasons are immaterial. Again, things like fun and enjoyment are completely subjective. "ROFLstomping" bad guys has been a viable method of enjoying RPGs every since I was ... well for a really long time. Many an MMO has no level scaling systems at all. Many have optional ones. They all seem to be doing OK with those choices. It's about being inclusive of varying gameplay types and preferences (within reason) instead of being exclusive with mandatory systems.

 

No one is going to see eye to eye on this but there are realistically more fair compromises for those that are against the sync option, that they can still enjoy the game, as opposed to not having the sync system, effectively hamstringing BW in the long run.

And how many people realistically are advocating for not having the system. Again, aside from the trolls, nearly every one who doesn't like the system for themselves, actually supports having the system in the game as an optional gameplay style for the benefits that the system is proven to bring - in all those very games that have similar systems that are... optional.

 

And let's be completely honest here, those that want the system to be optional are the same players that are likley going to ignore it completely anyways.

Isn't that the point?

 

Personally speaking, I was looking forward to having the system in place for the Flashpoints. I regularly run all the older flashpoints on level as I am leveling up a character, and I continue to replay them with those characters even after they have overleveled them, because I enjoy the content. With the system in place I can actually run them at level with any character. However, I still want to maintain that option of running them overleveled because I still enjoy playing through them in that manner as well. It would be the same way the planetary heroics.

 

It's about having the choice to tailor make your gameplay to create the type of challenge and experience you want at any given time. For me, it's not about taking max level toons to roflstomp anything on Tython. It's about being able to choose the pace of my own leveling experience and the challenge I want to face while leveling from mission to mission. That's how I have fun in games, and that's one of the reasons why the RPG genre has been my favorite for all those long years. Forced level scaling systems take away my choice on how I want to enjoy the game at any given moment, and hence why I find those games immensely unenjoyable. However, I also understand that there are a great many people who enjoy challenging themselves every moment they are playing a game, and hence I am in favor of level syncing, but only as a choice.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

A part of me will miss the easy runs on older planets for stuff like conquest or farming of items/mats/datacrons(decos) but i'm happy to see that the old planets will be viable again to actually play on.

 

This also gives BW the option to stage events on certain planets (remembering the very first rakghoul plague on tatooine) and it'll be challenging for people to participate even at higher level.

 

Also, assuming that people are scaled for pvp aswell, this will reduce a holes who run on low lvl planets to kill people in one hit.

And it will also reduce the efficiency of credit farmers who run a lvl 60 on a lvl 50 planet.

 

in short, i like the lvl sync, or atleast the idea of it, we'll see how it turns out.

[Aaryn]

Lot of positives, players play together. Players form Raid-groups for Worldbosses.

 

Old Planets head back to life. Level Sync is a good choice made from Bioware

[Alssaran]

So the answer is yes but you can't say it .

 

Nope. There is still no hindrance to gameplay experience. You can farm materials as easy as you can now. Just because you want it to be a hindrance for the sake of having an argument it doesn't become one.

 

So the answer is yes again and you still wont say yes. You see it right there. It will take even slightly longer. one hit or 3 hits means little other than adding time.

 

A difference of two and a half seconds per mob group is minor and shouldn't even be considered a hindrance. I would accept it if we were speaking about serious time-loss, as in thirty-fourty secons per group. That's not the case.

 

And again, a yes but damn. You just can't say it. You will be a level 65 down scaled to level 18 and everything you do will be decreased by some percentage. There is not a damn thing trilling about that in comparison to what I was already playing. It's a negative. Not a big negative but a negative none the less in something that would be better off for everyone if made optional.

 

Yes, there is. Being rewarded for playing that content with stuff that is actual meaningful to your level. That's thrilling enough. I can run around with different characters in my guild who have a different level and still get rewards. The new/low players get help, I get rewards. Win/Win situation. This would indeed work optional, but I will point out later why optional is still a bad idea.

 

You claim minority and nothing else. I claim more than you think want optional. More people see it as something interesting but not needed as forced.

Take this expample: WOW. A game SWTOR is clearly based off of and called a clone of wow in more ways than one. This very change spurred wow to ask what they would want. Given the games are so similar and the poll is asked in regards to the changes in SWTOR, I'd say it decent information to have:

Poll - Level Scaling

Would you like to have your character scale down to a zone's target level in WoW? What would you do with this feature if it was implemented?

 

What World of Warcraft does is of no concern here. Give me a strawpoll conducted by the SW:TOR community, then we will talk about numbers. The last three times a strawpoll showed that the news wasn't as much of a deal breaker to a majority as people believed it was. Dare to be the fourth?

 

If they didn't experience them, then it's really their own damn fault. No reason to not go back, even if out leveled.

But I agree that going back for some reward is fine. I'm not saying get rid of down leveling. Just don't make that crap forced on everyone when optional is a better way to go about it. Hard to say content is obsolete when I was still enjoying it even at max level and you act as if there going to give some great reward for doing a H2. Clearly you don't BW.

 

Nobody was ever speaking about a great reward. Neither was I. But you will get gear lockboxes which might contain purple gear and experience adequate to your level/credits. The lockbox alone might be a reason for people to run it with twinks.

 

There is a reason not to go back when outleveled. Some people have limited time to spare to play a game. You can't always make the decision to go and explore old content when you're focused on going forward with a character. The option of experiencing that content with the combination of rewards would make the decision much more easier. A character could advance by doing that content.

 

Pull whatever you want out of your *****. Dream a little dream of what might happen. Down leveling should still be optional.

 

If you don't see that level synch. is a feature that isn't supposed to be added on its own, but to be expanded on as a solid groundwork, then I don't know what to tell you. Bioware has said time and time again that they want to ensure that all the content they make will always be valuable to do from this point on. I have no reason to doubt that this is not the intention behind level synch aswell.

 

What makes you think I like disciplines? GSF is decent and F2P had to happen to make sure their first failures could be recovered without a total loss. Not something to really praise over. Thank God there are a still enough pros to make it worth while but I also see this game on a teeter totter. So easily could go south or nothing but as far as forced leveling goes. Thats a game feature that from design day one should have been made optional and not released till it was.

 

I never said you liked discplines. What I said was is that most of the people who were against the idea are now quite fine with it or have learned to adapt to the situation. If you were neither of those, fine by me. What I said was that there are multiple people who have calmed down after actually trying the system.

 

And I've pointed out why it would. In multiple threads. Some closed and some still open. I've covered griefing, I've covered world bosses, kill stealing, having the buff and dropping it, the heroic terminal and I'm sure a few others thing.

 

Group republic prepares to face the world boss of Belsavis with level synch for conquest points. Suddenly Imperial Assassin on level 65 without synch decides to drop in and aggro the boss, effectively killing it. He ruined the experience for sixteen people because they decided to use a feature they like.

 

Your solution? Make world boss areas a mandatory level synch? What if someone pulls it further away? What if one tank would tank it inside the area and a sniper just stands barely outside and shoots at level 65? Most suggestions are never thought through entirely and would take months to actually fix.

 

You'd be hard pressed to make me think this HAD to be forced on every single gamer when something like FF14 can pull it off as optional.

 

Again: What Final Fantasy 14 does is completely irrelevant to this forum. Does Final Fantasy 14 have a conquest system that relies on world bosses to farm large amounts of CP? Does it have an open world PvP system? As far as I know PvP is all but dead in that game. I'm not saying that nobody can pull off an optional level synch system. Just SW:TOR can't.

 

I better not risk all the stress and bugfixing involved with an optional system when fixing easy bugs takes months. That could lead to the worst screw up in history for nothing at all.

 

Love those made up numbers but I'll use something a bit more substantial.

The nearly 53% of gamers that like the idea of optional more than forced. The really small 18% that think forced was the way to go and the near twice that number who hate the very idea of down leveling.

The only down hill is thinking this had to forced on everyone after 4 years of SWTOR and enjoying how the game was played only to join it Oct 20 and now you got this extra hoop to jump though to try to get back a little of that same reason you had been playing but now every time you join, that same hurdle is there. Thats not an entertaining thought to me after this long in SWTOR.

 

Do I need to start with different games and their importance again? My numbers aren't made up. You can find the Strawpoll about Operations on reddit/swtor. 70% didn't care that no new operations came/didn't mind as long as something was coming within the next few months following January. Yet people assumed a majority for that. This has happened three times.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False-consensus_effect

 

Don't provide me with Polls where people of an entirely different MMO vote on a system that would play out differently in their respective settings. Provide me with a poll for SW:TOR from the SW:TOR community. My two Polls stand against your zero polls from this community. Evidence. It is on you to deliver now.

 

Yes, lets not make it optional because of some imagined possibilities.

Sorry but thtas some poor design input if thats all thats hindering you.

 

Every change should be implemented with possibilities in mind. Implementing a change for the sake of having a change now for one single time doesn't mean anything. Making way for possibilities is important. If you believe that imagining possibilities when making games is unimportant, continue to do so. There must certainly be a balance between imagined possibilities and actual reality. But change should always lead to the possibility of improvement.

 

You're heroics are the same. There not changed. Just the terminal rewards. You're doing the same 4 year old crap.

The things I used to do and enjoy now have the useless extra hurdle that doesn't actually make it better to do and thats a waste really.

 

Again: There is no hindrance. You want to go and do that Heroic solo? Do it. You won't die, nobody is hindering you to do it. Not even the system.

[Qouivandes]

I cant say if i like it or dislike it as i have not played it yet. however, it does seem interesting and would help in those, "DOOL MAH:" requests i tend to get when im on starter worlds.

[JoeeyyMagzz]

Take this example: WOW. A game SWTOR is clearly based off of and called a clone of wow in more ways than one. This very change spurred wow to ask what they would want. Given the games are so similar and the poll is asked in regards to the changes in SWTOR, I'd say it decent information to have:

Poll - Level Scaling

Would you like to have your character scale down to a zone's target level in WoW? What would you do with this feature if it was implemented?

 

Yes, optionally 52.83% (30,563 votes)

No 29.58% (17,115 votes)

Yes, always 17.59% (10,179 votes)

 

Total Votes: 57,857

If there was a majority. I'd wager it something different than what you think.

WOW poll basedoff SWTOR

 

That poll is asking if players would like level scaling in WoW and a majority said optionally. Do we really need to go into all of the differences between WoW and SWTOR and why this poll is irrelevant on these forums? First off, WoW has truly significant reasons to go back into early continents and complete content there. Second, WoW has entirely phased zones to make level sync unneeded most of the time. You can have level 100's and level 50's in the same exact location on the map in WoW and see entirely different content. This is impossible in SWTOR due to the engine capabilities (or lack thereof), thus making Level Sync mandatory a legitimate alternative. Third, there is a significant community of players that go and solo content for achievements and props. SWTOR does not even allow you to enter into Operations or Flashpoint's by yourself, they even made a dumbed down solo version of Flashpoint's (and a revan operation style fight) for people to feel like they're accomplishing something.

 

I can keep going into the differences and why optional level sync in WoW is smart, whereas SWTOR needs mandatory level sync, but I'm pretty sure the loudest minority won't listen to solid facts anyway.

Edited October 8, 2015 by JoeeyyMagzz

[Transcendent]

Every change should be implemented with possibilities in mind. Implementing a change for the sake of having a change now for one single time doesn't mean anything. Making way for possibilities is important. If you believe that imagining possibilities when making games is unimportant, continue to do so. There must certainly be a balance between imagined possibilities and actual reality. But change should always lead to the possibility of improvement.

 

If you implement a change in a manner which detracts from how your "core subscriber" base has experienced the game in the last 4 years, then that also comes with caveats if you haven't openly tested those changes and made them available to the wider community.

 

I can see where BioWare could take cues from GW2 in this instance (as BioWare have in other areas) by having dynamic world events. The caveat is quite a large one, and how BioWare will overcome it will be interesting. They'll be limited to how many players can participate in each instance due to the game engine performance and the way it handles communications between players and the server.

 

Would it be nice to see that added down the line, and balanced for all involved by having level sync? Absolutely.

 

So that's one potential positive.

 

Would it be nice to have the option to run with friends while levelling and for them to gain experience while doing so? Yes.

 

So that's another positive (one that works out of the gate, so to speak).

 

Now the flipside. Going back to a planet to do something like gathering, to aggro a mob, and then be knocked off my speeder, to then have to actually fight something I could previously ignore? Time sink.

 

Negatives. There have been a lot of examples from many players on the pros and cons to the levelling system, I'm not going to go through and post every single one. The point is, that having that system as an "opt-in" would do no harm.

 

The arguement of the PvP server side of things? Simple, if someone is PvP flagged and has level sync active, then the player who is PvP flagged and has the level sync inactive can't attack that player. Simple problems, with simple solutions. Both have PvP flag and level sync active? Okay, good to go, they can fight each other.

 

There are lots of solutions available, if BioWare took the time to go through them, and actually spend the time to develop them and do things properly. Instead of just simply taking the easy route, and ending up with a sub par system.

 

We saw this with the launch of GSF, they didn't even think to add controller support. Strongholds? They didn't seem to think that "hooks" would be an issue, again, they didn't think it through and garner the community feedback. The whole history of SWTOR has these little things, that could have been far better than the sum of their parts (engine limitations aside).

 

Anyway, I'm not here to be a critic. I'm a gamer, a paying customer. I expect better. Do I need to lower my expectations? No, actually I don't.

[Mournblood]

No ... no it isn;t.

 

Even without being under Sync, and leveling a new character with crappy gear - NEVER needed help with a Heroic. So this is not valid.

 

Also, you watched the stream and you clearly saw a Sync'd character with average gear pretty much own a heroic. He was taking down silvers in a few hits and golds were going down as if they were silvers.

 

Player skill is relative. Some players are better at playing a particular class than others, and while someone who's adept at it might breeze through a level appropriate Heroic, another player might not be able to. Regardless, it will still take longer to do a Heroic 2 of your level than it does doing one 10 or more levels below you. For me, it's as much about the additional time sink I didn't ask for as it is taking some of the perks out of being at level cap.

 

We could debate this ad nauseam, but it really comes down to this: Have you actually played in an MMO that has implemented this system? I have. Two of them in fact. One where the system was optional, and one where it wasn't optional. I quit the one where it wasn't optional, and the other where it was optional was ultimately shut down due to the diminishing player base. While they were very different games, the results were the same - it hurt their games more than it helped them - and those who liked the level scaling were very much in the minority.

 

My personal theory is that level scaling systems are counter-intuitive for MMOs, which are predicated on the idea of growing your character over time to be more powerful and capable of doing more than they could before. I don't particularly enjoy leveling a character (though I do think Bioware did a particularly good job of making that less painful through their story driven level progression), and the idea of my level 65 character being only slightly more powerful than a level 20 mob on Balmorra isn't appealing to me in the least. I do however enjoy getting to the end-game, setting and achieving goals for myself such as beating raid content, getting top tier gear, or grinding out the rep for a rare SH deco. But if I just want to take a break and slum it up on a low level planet to farm mats, help some lowbies kill a WB, fetch datacrons, or grind reputation, I can do so with relative ease and convenience. I don't want to feel like I'm leveling all over again when I just want to run around to do some stuff on a lower level planet.

 

Bottom line is that I have personally experienced this "level synch" system in two other MMOs, and it didn't work out particularly well for either of them. I don't see that turning out any differently for this one, especially because it's being forced on the players and it's really not resolving anything (i.e. nothing was broken in the game that required level scaling to fix it). If I'm wrong, great! If I'm right, then those of you arguing in support of it will find yourselves in a very empty game.

 

 

Many people have tried systems like this before in other games and hated them there too. Doesn't matter whether the spinach is made by Green Giant or Bird's Eye. Some people just don't like spinach, and most certainly don't want to be forced to eat it.

 

This sums up the entire argument perfectly.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Mournblood

[Alssaran]

If I'm right, then those of you arguing in support of it will find yourselves in a very empty game.

 

Then they will introduce the optional part later. So what?

 

Besides. What is that threat going to accomplish. Some people leave the game. Now what? I still enjoy the game. I still play the game I enjoy, with or without you being there. Try some new things for a change. The old stuff is getting boring.

[Mournblood]

Then they will introduce the optional part later. So what?

 

Besides. What is that threat going to accomplish. Some people leave the game. Now what? I still enjoy the game. I still play the game I enjoy, with or without you being there. Try some new things for a change. The old stuff is getting boring.

 

That wasn't a threat. It's solely my perspective and spoken from prior experience. Besides, you don't play in a vacuum on MMOs. If enough players become dissatisfied and leave the game, you won't necessarily be able to continue playing the game you enjoy with or without them. And you're making a very big assumption that they will revert the change or make it optional if it doesn't work out the way they are haphazardly hoping it will. Frankly, if this game mechanic turns sour on them, I don't see them spending any more money to undo that mistake. If they were willing to do that, they would have already invested the development resources to recode and implement a cross-server queue system for GSF and WZs years ago. But I digress, and we're getting slightly off topic.

[Deyjarl]

End game may change my views, though.

 

Why would end game make any difference to level syncing of earlier leveling planets?

[Malkosha]

The problem I have with level sync is that some players like to go back and solo Operations just for the fun of it. To see the game when there aren't enough people at that level to do it. To get the rewards which may include Orange armor they can use with the right mods.

 

Forced level sync kills this. At one time a while back, WoW was going to copy Guild Wars 2 themselves and implement this, but the cry from the playerbase who could no longer go and hunt for transmogs ... weapons and armor that can be used to change the appearance of what they have now ... killed it.

 

I think Forced level sync will damage this game in ways that maybe the dev's don't see yet. I guess we really need to see it in action that then decide what restrictions this places on this game.

[Deyjarl]

The problem I have with level sync is that some players like to go back and solo Operations just for the fun of it.

 

So that outweighs all the good things from level sync, just that? Sigh.

[Khevar]

The problem I have with level sync is that some players like to go back and solo Operations just for the fun of it. To see the game when there aren't enough people at that level to do it. To get the rewards which may include Orange armor they can use with the right mods.

 

Forced level sync kills this.

You're conflating "level sync" with a completely different issue, which is "buffing operations to 65"

 

We've known for a long time now that all operations and HM flashpoints were being increased to level 65. What's being discussed here is something new -- your character's level is being reduced to the max planet level when visiting it.

 

It has nothing whatsoever to do with the running operations.

[Max_Killjoy]

Bottom line: Those that hate this game so much will find something else to play. Those that don;t hate it will probably stay. This Sync thing IS going to lose BW some players. There's no denying that. On the other end of the spectrum, those players might be replaced by new players who like such a system.

 

It's so bloody complicated, which makes it unsurprising that there is so much controversy on the topic. I am a prime example as well. I'll admit it - if I had never heard of the Sync feature being announced, no harm/no foul. Then the announcement did come out and it got me excited, because I play other MMO games that have this system and I have seen it work SO well. Unfortunately, the feature got players as upset as it had me excited, creating a revolving door of tension in these threads that is pretty much palpable.

 

For those who are for ... AND for those who are against ... here's to hoping a solution comes around that doesn't keep the community torn in half.

 

Annnd there went my 10 minute break at work. Gah.

 

Here's the thing -- I'm probably not moving on to another game. This is the last game I play already, and nothing has come out in several years now that I'm willing to spend money on.

 

DA2 and ME3 were both massive letdowns, and KotFE is shaping up to be the same.

 

Distrust of customers gets worse all the time, with invasive DRM, mandatory god-awful bloatware installs like Steam and Origin, or required always-on internet connection, or something equally as insulting to the paying customer that does nothing to stop pirates and crackers.

 

Games get more generic all the time.

 

The industry gets more vile and repulsive and corporate-driven with every passing year.

 

Etc.

[Max_Killjoy]

So that outweighs all the good things from level sync, just that? Sigh.

 

I think, I'm not sure, but I think that there have been a lot of other reasons given for why people are opposed to this being mandatory. Just saying.

[Max_Killjoy]

I prefer it and for it to be mandatory. Old mmo gaming trends need to change. + it works great in GW2.

 

Except for all the people who have said they don't play GW2 specifically because of levelsync. Just saying.

[Max_Killjoy]

1.Have you been reading this post. Honestly optional supporter talk about having to group. It was clearly stated that you should be able to solo Heroics if you play smart. People have said levels won't matter. But high higher level will effect game play because you will have more abilities and more passive. People who support level-sync make claims it will increase group etc. Nothing has been said that would support that either. So no we can't discuss it informed because people are too set in their opinion they make up facts to try to get their point.

 

2. We don't know the full mechanics of the said change so it might not able to be made optional. Heck it might be key to the planned future of the game. You have no idea the reasoning for it being mandatory so to say it has to be optional is just an opinion based on no information.

 

3. There is almost no down side to this except I don't like it from the post I have seen. Mikey said he didn't like Life cereal Sam I am said he didn't like green eggs and ham. Again until you actually know how it works you really have no clue how much it effects your play.

 

4. Options aren't always better especially in games. In fact limiting the level game on a planet allows them to focus on getting the planet balance and spawn rate right. If you allow a huge disparity this can cause issue with balance and spawn rate. Warhammer if you got flagged PvP in a area where you were too high of level you got turned into a chicken with 1 hit point.

 

The problem is there is no intelligent discussion when people discuss thing from a point of ignorance and closed mindedness. We saw 3 fights of character with no passive not fully geared where he was 4 level above what he was fighting. I am sorry that isn't any information. That being said yes we know what changes but we don't know how much it changes or what determines it.

 

The minute detail are everything because that is how the system works. They also determining if the system will work or not. The only ones the minute details don't matter to are people who are disagreeing or agreeing because of a belief that the system is good or bad. People who are coming from a point of belief are not usually ration about said belief so have no business in an intelligent discussion.

 

Personally

 

I don't like level sync in concept. I general over level as I play naturally.

 

I think making it optional is the worst idea. You don't make a system like that optional you either do it or you don't. It mess too much with balance. There is a better chance for bugs and exploits in an optional system.

 

Without knowing the system I can't say if it will be good or bad. The concept is good for the growth of the game.

 

 

Besides studies show that options only decrease enjoyment not increase it.

 

If all content is going to be easily soloable, then there's no point in levelsync -- it's lose/lose. People who like things the way they are now, have the game made less enjoyable. Those who want "a challenge", don't get it.

 

If the "full mechanic" of the change means it can't be made optional, then don't do it, or find another mechanic.

 

If you haven't seen the downsides, you've not been reading the posts detailing them -- sorry, simple as that.

 

Trying to finely tune the experience and cram every player into exactly the same experience just ends up with most players unhappy. Allowing for a broad range of experience / enjoyment of the game gives the most player the most enjoyment of the game. Worrying about open-world PvP in this game is a lost cause, as much as it hurts the game for some players.

 

If it can't be made optional, then don't do it.

 

We already know that we're going to be "downsynced", that's all we need to know to be opposed to making it mandatory.

 

As for "studies" that "prove" options are bad... right. Sure.

[Max_Killjoy]

Ahh, so all those people who supposedly cancelled their subs in the months following launch actually didn't cancel their subs? All those PvPers who left in the two or three mass exoduses over the last four years didn't cancel either? All those Raiders who cancelled after the announcement of no new Ops until 2016 also didn't really cancel their subs?

 

In fact, it must have been a conspiracy perpetuated by BW so that they could launch their F2P initiative and force the dreadful CM upon us all. And then they can make claims about all these player who magically appeared after F2P. My Goodness man, you have just uncovered the biggest conspiracy in the history of all of gaming!!

 

Because I don't recall ever seeing a screen shot of somebody cancelling in the four years I have been playing this game. Not that it would matter, I suppose - you would just claim it was photoshopped.

 

I like how he wants screen shots of our account info... that's funny.

[Max_Killjoy]

It won't. It's actually going to make things more fun

 

For you, maybe.

 

Please don't presume to tell other people what's going to be fun for them, if that's what you were doing.