Level synch = Revival of SWTOR

[Kiesu]

If I played a smuggler sure, it would be a bit stupid. Probably one of the reasons why I don't play one. I've got this blaster but hey, I'm going to run up and hit you with it to be more effective. Another stupidity in BW design in my eyes.

Aha. Another case of "because i dont do stuff like that why should i care about it".

Yeah, I dont RP overpowered marysue Jedi who aggro Reaper full of Sith and expect to get out without a scratch on me, so why should i care about your Jedi RP if you dont care about my Smuggler RP? hmmmmmmmmmm

 

If such optional toggle would be added it really needs to be instanced in planetary scenarios, or people will abuse the on/off system like no tomorrow.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Kiesu

[Kiesu]

Hahaha, I approve of the the thread title.

 

Indeed I am also exited about this sync and will be using it a lot I imagine.

[GordoKhan]

Total loss for me, and I have only been playing for a year. My sub is up in Nov so f2p then. The level synch and crafting changes killed it for me

[Darevsool]

After watching the recorded stream session, I'm far less annoyed at the thought of level syncing. There doesn't appear to be ANY downside, other than a POSSIBLE issue with coming back to lower level planets as part of your story and having to fight high level opponents that you're suddenly not prepared for (however I think they probably thought of that and have something in place to where it won't matter).

 

My concerns about being delayed while farming mats/nodes...after seeing how it works in the stream/video I am no longer concerned about it. Musco's toon destroyed heroic level gold npc's easily. They weren't one-shot, but it only took a couple seconds.

 

The bonuses of being able to group with guild mates / friends on their lower level toons and not screwing up their xp makes the whole thing worth it in my opinion.

 

All it took was to watch the stream and see what it actually was, because the forum posts were just not getting the explanation across well.

[pegasussgc]

I don't see a reason for there to be a compromise on level-sync. This just seems to be a case of people scared of change and putting their fingers in their ears, afraid they might actually like it.

 

You don't lose any abilities or set bonuses, you can still solo heroics. As for mobs knocking you off mounts...being that you are going to be 4-5 levels above the recommended level for most planets with level-sync, that won't be a problem as long as you don't plant yourself in the middle of a handful of mobs and sit there while you go afk. Just navigate around or run though mobs.

 

Give it a shot before you try and ruin one of the better features of KoTFE for the rest of us. Those of us who like to have a reason to revisit lower level planets, who like to group with friends who are leveling their first characters without trivializing their xp gain and gameplay experience.

[Quraswren]

Give it a shot before you try and ruin one of the better features of KoTFE for the rest of us. Those of us who like to have a reason to revisit lower level planets, who like to group with friends who are leveling their first characters without trivializing their xp gain and gameplay experience.

 

There is no need to give it a shot if you have played SWTOR at all. Hell, if you played any leveling game you know what down scaling is and what it will do.

 

Give it a shot is a waste of time and money on something you know isn't all that interesting going into it.

 

IT might be a good feature for you and thats why no one I know is saying remove it. What we are saying is make it optional. Thats the difference.

 

That way, if you like it, turn it on and get those rewards. You want to go help a friend, turn it on and head out.

 

If you don't, turn it off and play like you have for the past 4 or so years. If your friend is on their 18th alt and just wants to get it done. Turn it off and blast them through it.

 

There is a best of both game play options here and BW missed the boat on a design that would work for everyone. Thats a real mistake and a missed opportunity for gamers.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Quraswren

[TUXs]

When I spoke of old content outside of heroics, I meant FPs and Ops of yesteryear. I am well aware class missions and planetary quests are one and done.

 

Your analogy is terrible. Level syncing is so different from forced PvP (it starts with two completely different facets of playing the game). You are right on one thing: it is absurd.

 

Going to Tython, Tatooine or wherever else and one-shotting everything you say, is objectively non-compelling gameplay. It is tantamount to a child crushing beetles between his fingers, or hammering ants with a play hammer. It's a 'wee I'm the giant look at me crush the smaller creatures.' Well, if that is what you find fun, so be it, but most people prefer tasking their brains with a little bit more. Thus level syncing is objectively compelling gameplay -- and that means it's fun!

FP's are going solo mode and being updated to 65...Ops of yesteryear are also being boosted to 65.

 

So what old content are they making relevant (not including heroics)? As for the heroic thing, they could easily have accomplished the same thing with a buff (debuff) from the mission terminal.

 

My analogy was mocking yours. I would have done a far better job had I not tried to adhere to the format and flow of your original one.

 

And again, maybe you don't like being able to ignore low level crap, but I DO...but apparently you find killing mobs 5 levels below you "compelling" and "tasking" for your brain.

[CloudCastle]

I have some concerns, but I can also see positives. The biggest thing level scaling could do is to give people alternative leveling paths. Say you are sick to death of doing Makeb...you don't PVP...how do you get from 50-55? Well, perhaps with level sync you could go back to old planets and do their bonus series. They'd all give exp and rewards now as if you were on level. Pretty nice and it would be something different to do.

[DarkSaberMaster]

I could care less about. I understand both sides of the argument and agree with some points on both sides. My question is, what is the point of leveling now? No matter where you go, you will be scaled to whatever level that planet is, why bother have a leveling game? Especially when you can just start at 60 now. What is the point?

[LunaticFringer]

The mistake they're making with this update is forcing a blanket change over a specific system that may have been asked for in the past. Basically, a mentoring system where high level characters could go help low level characters without robbing them of mob xp and such. It is an entirely different situation when you spring this on the community weeks before the expansion knowing full well some people like going back and "farming" heroics for instance.

 

Now there are plenty of different opinions on this.

 

On the up side it does kind of encourage grouping in a *gasp* mmorpg again. On the down side this really doesn't sit well with those members of the community that like to solo once they hit max level.

 

In short, I'm going to stick with what the community has asked for in the past. This should've been a group mechanic or toggle choice only. Not a blanket change that does impact how a lot of people play the game.

 

Hell, I'm not even sure if they took into account that some quests at high level take us back to low level planets and aren't instanced situations. A few of them are right out in the open... and I do not see the transition going well.

 

But, meh, if you want to look at the silver lining... it does curtail the gold farmers a little bit more.

[Highlandscot]

Ok, so I posted that I don't like level sync... however, I am trying to see the upside, and I did just think of one situation where it could be a "good thing".

 

Imagine you're leveling, you're on Tattonine, and you're enjoying the place, you want to do the full planet story, the side missions, everything. Normally you end up outleveling the place, getting just 6 XP per mission after awhile making it kinda depressing to carry on, knowing that you'll have to do the same stuff on the next planet.

 

But instead, with level sync, you'll never quite outlevel Tattonine, instead you'll keep getting XP. So lets say you love Tat but hate Alderann, you can do everything on Tat, level up a bit, then go do just the class missions and blast out Alderann and move on asap since you arrived at Alderann a bit overleveled for it.

 

This does open up options to "level your way", doing extras one place, just the class missions somewhere else, always earning something from it rather than almost nothing.

 

Just trying to see the positive here.

 

Okay first of all, you're making a HUGE assumption that just because you're "over-leveled" for the planet, that BioWare has decided that you can stay there with their "de-bolsterization" and continue to get XP.

 

Here's a (true) example of what might happen if you're correct. I have several level 60's that I finished using 12xp, with sets of full 6 piece raid gear. If this level sync garbage (Full Disclosure: I think it's a HORRIBLE idea) works as you think it will, I can just take my fully-geared 60s back to Tython, Ord Mantell, Korriban, or Hutta, and do the other side missions at MAX level for the planet, and get to level 65 with minimal effort. As long as BioWare has this all figured out and debugged so there's no screwups.

 

Does that make sense to you?

 

Oh, and let's not forget such fun places like Belsavis - 41-44 except for the daily misisons (lvl 50). How's that going to work again? Or just using Tatooine - lvl 24-28, EXCEPT for those pesky GSI missions (level 52-55). How is that going to be handled?

 

Oh, and the Alderaan example you used? Good luck with that one. Alderaan is level 28-32, EXCEPT for the Bonus Area (lvl 40), EXCEPT for the GSI missions.

 

So, considering all the usual bugs that come with an expansion, adding a level sync process that we don't need on several planets that have multiple "level" issues (Tat, Alderaan, Hoth, Belsavis, Nar Shadda as examples), seems to me a horrendous idea. Prior to this expansion, I don't recall seeing massive numbers of threads dedicated to begging BioWare for level syncing on old planets.

 

Considering also that it's starting to look like all the information we're going to get on this expansion and changes to gameplay are going to come on Oct. 19th, when we can read them in the patch notes, I'm hoping the amount of bile spewed in BioWare's direction will cause them to abandon the level sync idea.

[Chyene]

Levelsynk sounds... like a good thing for those who want it. But I hope they make it togeleble as it will not be a revival, but a burial, for us who by heart do not want it, RPers, PVE haters and we who get to highest level in order to jsut run trough the really bad PVE 20 levels higher, so we can enjoy the story, without stupid pve =)

[bdatt]

Okay first of all, you're making a HUGE assumption that just because you're "over-leveled" for the planet, that BioWare has decided that you can stay there with their "de-bolsterization" and continue to get XP.

 

Here's a (true) example of what might happen if you're correct. I have several level 60's that I finished using 12xp, with sets of full 6 piece raid gear. If this level sync garbage (Full Disclosure: I think it's a HORRIBLE idea) works as you think it will, I can just take my fully-geared 60s back to Tython, Ord Mantell, Korriban, or Hutta, and do the other side missions at MAX level for the planet, and get to level 65 with minimal effort. As long as BioWare has this all figured out and debugged so there's no screwups.

 

I'm actually hoping I can level in a way different from current daily areas and FPs/Ops. I'll do KotFE story on a jedi, but level my tech users for Ops first. Doing old heroics I've probably only done once or twice, with the last time 3 years ago, will be much more refreshing than farming Yavin daily areas and tFPs for the dozenth time.

Edited October 1, 2015 by bdatt

[Rafaman]

and perhaps this is the start of a future mentoring system. Ever think of that?

 

That is exactly what this is.

[Quraswren]

That is exactly what this is.

 

And could still be made optional and still be a mentor program.

 

Optional is the way to go on something like this. What BW is doing. Not so much.

[TUXs]

Okay first of all, you're making a HUGE assumption that just because you're "over-leveled" for the planet, that BioWare has decided that you can stay there with their "de-bolsterization" and continue to get XP.

 

Here's a (true) example of what might happen if you're correct. I have several level 60's that I finished using 12xp, with sets of full 6 piece raid gear. If this level sync garbage (Full Disclosure: I think it's a HORRIBLE idea) works as you think it will, I can just take my fully-geared 60s back to Tython, Ord Mantell, Korriban, or Hutta, and do the other side missions at MAX level for the planet, and get to level 65 with minimal effort. As long as BioWare has this all figured out and debugged so there's no screwups.

 

Does that make sense to you?

 

Oh, and let's not forget such fun places like Belsavis - 41-44 except for the daily misisons (lvl 50). How's that going to work again? Or just using Tatooine - lvl 24-28, EXCEPT for those pesky GSI missions (level 52-55). How is that going to be handled?

 

Oh, and the Alderaan example you used? Good luck with that one. Alderaan is level 28-32, EXCEPT for the Bonus Area (lvl 40), EXCEPT for the GSI missions.

 

So, considering all the usual bugs that come with an expansion, adding a level sync process that we don't need on several planets that have multiple "level" issues (Tat, Alderaan, Hoth, Belsavis, Nar Shadda as examples), seems to me a horrendous idea. Prior to this expansion, I don't recall seeing massive numbers of threads dedicated to begging BioWare for level syncing on old planets.

 

Considering also that it's starting to look like all the information we're going to get on this expansion and changes to gameplay are going to come on Oct. 19th, when we can read them in the patch notes, I'm hoping the amount of bile spewed in BioWare's direction will cause them to abandon the level sync idea.

I LOVE this reply!!!!

[DarkSaberMaster]

Okay first of all, you're making a HUGE assumption that just because you're "over-leveled" for the planet, that BioWare has decided that you can stay there with their "de-bolsterization" and continue to get XP.

 

Here's a (true) example of what might happen if you're correct. I have several level 60's that I finished using 12xp, with sets of full 6 piece raid gear. If this level sync garbage (Full Disclosure: I think it's a HORRIBLE idea) works as you think it will, I can just take my fully-geared 60s back to Tython, Ord Mantell, Korriban, or Hutta, and do the other side missions at MAX level for the planet, and get to level 65 with minimal effort. As long as BioWare has this all figured out and debugged so there's no screwups.

 

Does that make sense to you?

 

Oh, and let's not forget such fun places like Belsavis - 41-44 except for the daily misisons (lvl 50). How's that going to work again? Or just using Tatooine - lvl 24-28, EXCEPT for those pesky GSI missions (level 52-55). How is that going to be handled?

 

Oh, and the Alderaan example you used? Good luck with that one. Alderaan is level 28-32, EXCEPT for the Bonus Area (lvl 40), EXCEPT for the GSI missions.

 

So, considering all the usual bugs that come with an expansion, adding a level sync process that we don't need on several planets that have multiple "level" issues (Tat, Alderaan, Hoth, Belsavis, Nar Shadda as examples), seems to me a horrendous idea. Prior to this expansion, I don't recall seeing massive numbers of threads dedicated to begging BioWare for level syncing on old planets.

 

Considering also that it's starting to look like all the information we're going to get on this expansion and changes to gameplay are going to come on Oct. 19th, when we can read them in the patch notes, I'm hoping the amount of bile spewed in BioWare's direction will cause them to abandon the level sync idea.

 

And I think you just uncovered the potentially biggest flaw in the system.

[caronome]

Level Sync isn't the problem. In and of itself, it's a great feature that opens up more options.

MANDATORY Level Sync is the problem.

 

Optional downleveling in Rift was great. I really, really dislike mandatory downleveling.

[Kiesu]

Oh, and let's not forget such fun places like Belsavis - 41-44 except for the daily misisons (lvl 50). How's that going to work again? Or just using Tatooine - lvl 24-28, EXCEPT for those pesky GSI missions (level 52-55). How is that going to be handled?

 

Oh, and the Alderaan example you used? Good luck with that one. Alderaan is level 28-32, EXCEPT for the Bonus Area (lvl 40), EXCEPT for the GSI missions.

I would Imagine the sync is either area based, or these missions will be scaled down to normal planet mission lv. You cant talk to the quest givers anyway before reaching certain level so downscaling would not even effect them. The game will still understand your true level is 40 at which point you can pick up your bonus series for Alderaan, or dailys for Belsavis.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Kiesu

[PavSalco]

Why my original post, the one that started this thread, is suddenly on the page 6? @CommunityDroidEN you had one job...

[Faelandaea]

I don't know what some people are talking about...and clearly neither do they!

 

I watched on the Stream yesterday a LV60 character, whilst level-scaled to Lv18 on Kaas(i think it was) -DESTROY- enemies in a HEORIC Area...and so can you. -Go watch the stream, get informed before posting drivel on these forums.

 

'Level Scaling' is exactly what this game needs, so once again we can all play this MMO together meaningfully -OR- Solo content if you prefer.

 

What I saw on the stream was both playstyles getting what they want.

-WELL DONE BIOWARE! I can't wait to play KOTFE

 

I agree fullly.

 

The problem with the nay-sayer crowd is, no matter what "guise" they try to hide behind, the TRUE reason anyone would have issues with this being optional is that they cannot take their high level and harass low level players by farming their areas leaving them with either having to switch instances or come back later to try to finish kill quests or leveling their crafting nodes. That is the ONLY reason someone could possibly be offended by not having the option to switch sync off. If sync were optional, then ONLY people that would use it are the ones trying to still get XP from a planet they are completing because they are leveling and want to get the most out of the planet, but all the trolls would immediately switch it off and do like, say Max does, and come back to low level areas and sit there plowing through heroic mobs making sure no one has anything to kill. "I just enjoy one-hitting mobs" is a DIRECT translation from "I enjoy making sure low levels can;t get their stuff done."

 

I've been on both sides, to be honest. I have been annoyed when leveling a low level alt and having that mission to "Kill x-amount of mobs." And it's not a side quest - it's part of my main story - needed to progress that character. I egt to the area and there he is - that level 60 character swatting everyting while sapping gathering nodes. If they were gathering, they do not need to be killing anything, but hey who needs to do their story mission, right? Yet on other days there have been times where I have had a bad day and just want to murder enemy mobs, so I go to a low level area and sit there wasting everything in sight. I guess the one difference between myself and everyone else though is if I see a lower level come into the area I stop and let stuf respawn for them. I even toss the low level buffs if I can.

 

The whole reason for the devs making it forced is to prevent exactly everything I just described here. If it weren't for higher level players doing stuff like this in low level areas - especially when those low level areas are at peak times and actually busy with players trying to also compete for the same kills, then yeah they probably would have made it optional.

 

Some arguments against and my response to them:

1. "Some of my story missions were wheer I had to go through a heroic to get to them". No. I have played and leveled ALL classes to level 60 and have NEVER had to go through a Heroic or deal with Heroic mobs to get to a story location. Heroics have ALWAYS been side missions, optional, and never in the way of the story.
   
2. "My friends and I want to roleplay, but now we will get aggroed all the time." I can see two outlooks on this. First, okay maybe a compromise - on the servers that are DEDICATED as roleplay servers, maybe make this an option, since a role-play server never has the issues with trolling that regular servers do. But on a regular non-role-play server - such as my server which is just a regular PvE server - keep the sync mandatory. There are MORE than plkenty of areas literally everywhere that you guys can role-play without being anywhere near an enemy.
   
3. "I just want to go back and level my crafting, because I started it late. Now I have to deal with aggro in low level areas just to gather?" Been there. Oh trust me, been there. I have level 60's that have not even started gathering yet. I usually end up leveling first THEN working on gathering. I usually ended up going back and sweeping entire areas of the capital planet and clearing nodes to level, leaving mobs completely untouched. But I did so not so much because of lack of aggro, but because I HAD to go back to a lower level planet to work on gathering to level it. Now, with the new system, you can level gathering on ANY node on ANY planet, so now I can continue to still focus on dailies and other things at my level without having to back-track and farm nodes in areas I have already completed and have no other use for. I admit I will miss my non-aggro leveling sweeps, but then again when I did this I pretty much became like the player I complained about - the high level one that swept through and cleared everything in an area where I was honestly trying to do content and gathering at the same time.
   
4. "I want to do bounties or hunt for datacrons." The issue I see with THIS one is the SAME people who keep posting this are the SAME people who in other threads whine that this game is "too easy" and "Even a 3 year old can play it." I'd say "Hey, now everything is on equal ground for everyone", but even with Sync, you'll still be at an advantage. Again this goes back to Eric demonstrating his ability to literally own a Heroic area with 0 effort in average gear.
   

 

Some arguments FOR the change that support it:

1. "Now I can level without high levels farming stuff out from in front of me."
   
2. "Now my group can actually assemble and tackle a world boss without some level 60 sweeping through and swatting it just to be a troll."
   
3. "Now I can clear an entire planet, including exploration planets and heroics, without worrying about out-leveling the planet. I will still gain XP no matter how long I am there. It will not feel like I am forced to move on because nothing will turn "grey" to me and I'll always feel like I am getting something out of the experience besides just completing the mission for the sake of being a completionist."
   
4. Here is a BIG one for me: "My buddy needs help! YAY! Now I can help him without sucking all of his XP! And since I am geared and high level, even while sync'd the chances of me failing him are slim . . . unless I suck."
   
5. "I need to do a Heroic to get some gear, but the planet I am on is BUSY tonight. Seems like everyone is killing absolutely EVERYTHING. Gah! Oh, wait, I can now go to another planet - any planet (as long as it is at or below my level) and do a Heroic there to get a quick chest piece that is my level of gear. Sweeeeeeet!"
   

 

2 areas I will include above, just in case someone says "You forgot about...":

 

Grouping: I don;t think this will effect grouping in the slightest. My habit of playing solo now will not change because of this. Someone else's habit of grouping with their friends probably will not change either. I am not sure why grouping is a factor that keeps coming up in this but I cannot see it as an argument either for or against Sync, other than the ability to group without stealing XP from your buddies, which i listed already as a supporting factor for syncing.

 

Conquests: Never done them, so I can't say for or against and I will not give an opinion on something I do not know about or have personal experience with in game.

 

There is exactly 1 downside, that being you can't ROFLStomp old content as easily, and even at that, Musco was ROFLStomping it pretty good solo.

 

Exactly. He was practically one-shotting Heroics - sync'd - and his gear was not even that impressive (he showed the tooltips for his gear during the stream).

 

There's plenty of speeders with excellent protection. I never get knocked off on them.

 

Same. The only time I ever get knocked off a speeder is if I happen to be unlucky enough to pass by a mob that has some special skill that guarantee a mount-kill, like those annoying droids on Corelia as you try to pass through the hallways there. But even when leveling a low level, on the low level planets I never had an issue with getting knocked off any motorized speeder. The only mounts I have issues with are animal mounts - because obviously they don;t like getting hit in the rear with a blaster bolt LOL.

 

I would Imagine the sync is either area based, or these missions will be scaled down to normal planet mission lv. You cant talk to the quest givers anyway before reaching certain level so downscaling would not even effect them. The game will still understand your true level is 40 at which point you can pick up your bonus series for Alderaan, or dailys for Belsavis.

 

His question was a good point, but I agree with you that I bet they just scale the mobs now, which makes the most sense. With this kind of sync system, there's no need to have level 50+ mobs on a level 20-ish planet. I guess we will find out when the servers go live on the 19th XD

Edited October 1, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Mavery]

FP's are going solo mode and being updated to 65...Ops of yesteryear are also being boosted to 65.

 

This is the very definition of making old content relevant. I don't understand why this comment was made?

 

So what old content are they making relevant (not including heroics)? As for the heroic thing, they could easily have accomplished the same thing with a buff (debuff) from the mission terminal.

 

See above.

 

My analogy was mocking yours. I would have done a far better job had I not tried to adhere to the format and flow of your original one.

 

And no actual rebuttal means you have no counter. Understood.

 

And again, maybe you don't like being able to ignore low level crap, but I DO...but apparently you find killing mobs 5 levels below you "compelling" and "tasking" for your brain.

 

You misunderstand the position. So here is breaking it down simply.

 

If you one-shot a mob, it involves pressing one button.

 

If you have to use your rotation to kill the mob, it requires several buttons.

 

Several button pressing is more tasking than a single button press. The more button presses, the more compelling the gameplay.

 

That better?

Edited October 1, 2015 by Mavery

[GingerSnapsBack]

How is rehashing old, BTDT content cause for celebration? Easily amused people are easily amused, I guess.

[DarkSaberMaster]

You misunderstand the position. So here is breaking it down simply.

 

If you one-shot a mob, it involves pressing one button.

 

If you have to use your rotation to kill the mob, it requires several buttons.

 

Several button pressing is more tasking than a single button press. The more button presses, the more compelling the gameplay.

 

That better?

 

Pressing 4-5 buttons is more compelling than pressing one? Lol. Okay. Like another poster said. People are easily amused.

 

Anyways. I don't care either way if this is in game. But it should be optional because it defeats the purpose of being a leveling game. I'll still continue to play and subscribe when it goes through. But it should be optional for those who don't want it.

[Kiesu]

Pressing 4-5 buttons is more compelling than pressing one? Lol. Okay. Like another poster said. People are easily amused.

Excuse us if we'd like to do older content on our mains without facerolling it.