Princess_Chibi Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 This game isn't a democracy. And even if it was, voting would be done with the players wallets. So all those player that are still playing and paying for the game have voted, and they voted they don't care about these changes as much as you do. You're confusing players who are playing and paying for the game, with players on the forums running their mouth. With the F2P component in SWTOR, that's a bad assumption. Now if Bioware only based their decisions on subscribers and if they turned off chat and forum posting for F2P, not only would things improve, we'd get a more accurate view on who can and is voting with their wallets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megamaid Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 If the reward is as great as people claim it is, then why wouldn't the optional-crowd use it sometimes to farm? Especially if someone is not maxed out in levels? Why can't level-sync be mandatory on PvP servers like being flagged is? So if you could complete your daily/weekly quests without being Synced would you use it, i doubt you would because it would take longer. This means they would either have to create separate or bonus rewards for completing them synced or just make it mandatory, which was my point Why can't it be on PvP servers, for the same reason as on other servers. If i am farming mats on a PvP server i don't want to get screwed and knocked of my mount by a mob. Your essentially saying "**** PvP players because they might gank, and i don't play on one so who cares". And like i said, even with level sync ganking will be an issue because of gear and skill advantage, or do you not remember the mess that was the 1-50 bracket. What i described is a semi-optional system, i don't know if you read through it all, it was a long post, but what i described is one that is optional when you want to be, but mandatory, when in the areas that the devs want it, such as completing dailies and weeklies, and improving queue times for low level dungeons, along with allowing a high level player to play with their friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deyjarl Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 You're confusing players who are playing and paying for the game, with players on the forums running their mouth. Not confusing that at all. I don't think the people posting on the forums represent an accurate picture of the player base. And anyone who pays money to play, subscriber or even F2P that just buys cartel coins once is voting with their wallet. They are the one that Bioware is going to listen to, not people posting on the forums. And most of them will continue playing without care to the changes. So the idea that any of the threads here have any meaning, that some think they do, is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megamaid Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 You're confusing players who are playing and paying for the game, with players on the forums running their mouth. With the F2P component in SWTOR, that's a bad assumption. Now if Bioware only based their decisions on subscribers and if they turned off chat and forum posting for F2P, not only would things improve, we'd get a more accurate view on who can and is voting with their wallets. F2P can't post on the forums, you have to be subscribed to post in the Swtor forums. So what you are hearing in these forums is only a representation of subscribers that give a crap enough to post. No matter the MMO, the forums are never a solid representation of what the player base feels.The only way for us to know is for them to release the information that subscribers state when they unsubscribe, if they even give a reason in the survey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iffyluse Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) It's still baffling to me how some people think that the louder they complain the more important their opinions are. You are vastly outnumbered, you're in a vocal minority and don't represent a significant enough margin of the playerbase. Most of the playerbase don't even post on forums. You can quit the game entirely cause of the levelsync and Bioware won't even notice you. Even a 100 people complaining about it is insignificant enough to completely brush it off in the grand scheme of things. Oh no, there are a couple of threads about this, this MUST be what the ENTIRE playerbase want. No it isn't. P.S. Levelsyinc is a great idea and most of the people are either indifferent or are okay with it. You're just gonna have to deal with it. Edited October 19, 2015 by Iffyluse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wassawp Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Level Sync is one the best idea they had since the game released. Now get mad. Edited October 19, 2015 by Wassawp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess_Chibi Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It's still baffling to me how some people think that the louder they complain the more important their opinions are. You are vastly outnumbered, you're in a vocal minority and don't represent a significant enough margin of the playerbase. Most of the playerbase don't even post on forums. You can quit the game entirely cause of the levelsync and Bioware won't even notice you. Even a 100 people complaining about it is insignificant enough to completely brush it off in the grand scheme of things. Oh no, there are a couple of threads about this, this MUST be what the ENTIRE playerbase want. No it isn't. P.S. Levelsyinc is a great idea and most of the people are either indifferent or are okay with it. You're just gonna have to deal with it. The reverse is also true. You're a very loud vocal minority. You can't prove you have more people fine with the changes anymore than we can prove more people hate it. Congratulations, you're a sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikahrtwo Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Not confusing that at all. I don't think the people posting on the forums represent an accurate picture of the player base. And anyone who pays money to play, subscriber or even F2P that just buys cartel coins once is voting with their wallet. They are the one that Bioware is going to listen to, not people posting on the forums. And most of them will continue playing without care to the changes. So the idea that any of the threads here have any meaning, that some think they do, is ridiculous. Youre qiute right there, forums in most cases represents total opposite than vast majority of playerbase. Any game that has relied on "community" has tanked hard. Just look at Wildstar, on their pre launch forums it went so far that "community" was saying they would rather see game fail than being "dumbed down" Well, fast forward to today, WS is "completely dumbed down" but its doing fine....for now (F2P launch) after it tanked hard after launch. Edited October 19, 2015 by Mikahrtwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess_Chibi Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 And yet it was quite accurate for SWG. Next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikahrtwo Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) SWG would have failed either way. It was "special" case. Quite a few myths have been busted and SWG was on a steep falling trajectory BEFORE NGE. Edited October 19, 2015 by Mikahrtwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fled Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Never bothered me in GW2...just sayin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Never bothered me in GW2...just sayin.... Didn't bother me either at first, but then I woke up and said... . nope... this sucks. Haven't been back to GW2 since. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of this forced model beyond FP/OPS down leveling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 That guy will be knocked off from his speeder by lvl 15 once in a blue moon. Then he is doing something wrong. I just had to travel across half of Alderaan for a class quest, wasn't knocked of once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 He would be a customer that helps pay the company's salaries and other operations costs.Him and only about a million other customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I understand the ToS just fine. ... Irrelevant. When ToS never overrides law, your understanding of it is irrelevant. Try reading his posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Guarantied it'll be F2P before the end of the year. It won't, none of the expansions are free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 If there are 1000 voters in a precinct, and only 100 show up to vote... guess who's voices actually count that day... We're not voting, this is a forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 The reverse is also true. You're a very loud vocal minority. You can't prove you have more people fine with the changes anymore than we can prove more people hate it. Congratulations, you're a sheep.Bioware implementing the system is a clear and strong indication that they believe it will be beneficial. And Bioware believing that is a strong argument that the majority of players will welcome it. They probably have usage data to show that very few people are negatively affected by the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iffyluse Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) The reverse is also true. You're a very loud vocal minority. You can't prove you have more people fine with the changes anymore than we can prove more people hate it. Congratulations, you're a sheep. Majority of the playerbase is not complaining about it. That is a statistical fact. If they're not complaining then it is not part of the negative feedback. You can't turn that kind of logic around on me, it is not how feedback works in any sort of services or products. Most people if they're satisfied with something they don't write any feedback at all. Most people don't go out of their way to express how much they liked something or that their expectations for a product or service were met. On the other hand, if they're really passionately upset with something they do write negative feedback. The negative feedback towards the level sync is insignificant in proportion to the total playerbase. People upset enough to complain about level sync on forums are in the vast minority to people who are either indifferent or positive towards it. EA runs things based on numbers. Your number is way smaller. Deal with it. P.S. Peoples inner feelings toward the product DO NOT MATTER if they do not express them. Only tangible feedback is EXPRESSED feedback. Companies can't read peoples minds (yet). And there's not enough people complaining about it for it to matter atm. Edited October 19, 2015 by Iffyluse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) It's still baffling to me how some people think that the louder they complain the more important their opinions are. You are vastly outnumbered, you're in a vocal minority and don't represent a significant enough margin of the playerbase. Most of the playerbase don't even post on forums. You can quit the game entirely cause of the levelsync and Bioware won't even notice you. Even a 100 people complaining about it is insignificant enough to completely brush it off in the grand scheme of things. Oh no, there are a couple of threads about this, this MUST be what the ENTIRE playerbase want. No it isn't. P.S. Levelsyinc is a great idea and most of the people are either indifferent or are okay with it. You're just gonna have to deal with it. Makes post about how we can't know how the playerbase feels, then ends it with claim that we know the playerbase feels fine about levelsync... Majority of the playerbase is not complaining about it. That is a statistical fact. If they're not complaining then it is not part of the negative feedback. You can't turn that kind of logic around on me, it is not how feedback works in any sort of services or products. The majority aren't speaking in favor of it, either. Quite possibly, the majority of players don't know this laundry list of fundamental changes is coming, and are going to be stunned after the patch installs and they log in. Edited October 19, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Bioware implementing the system is a clear and strong indication that they believe it will be beneficial. And Bioware believing that is a strong argument that the majority of players will welcome it. They probably have usage data to show that very few people are negatively affected by the change.of course they *THINK* its a good idea. no one makes business decisions to fail. that said, not all business decisions are wise. swtor is largely ridiculed for the decisions the devs make in the online realm. also, how can they possibly have "usage data" to show the effect of something that hasn't even happened yet? all they know is that people played a lot of 12xp but that information can be interpreted in multiple ways. 1) people love the sp story or 2) people have no endgame content to play and are running out of things to do. whether or not players want to go back to old planets, be nerfed and ignore all their levelling, to repeat content from 4 years ago is still to be determined.Majority of the playerbase is not complaining about it. That is a statistical fact. If they're not complaining then it is not part of the negative feedback. You can't turn that kind of logic around on me, it is not how feedback works in any sort of services or products.this is confirmation bias. most people dont post here at all. to interpret absence of feedback as positive or negative is foolish.Quite possibly, the majority of players don't know this laundry list of fundamental changes is coming, and are going to be stunned after the patch installs and they log in.^this! does everyone forget the wall of "where are my talent trees" threads after SoR? People are going to be shocked by the stat changes, the crafting changes, and being completely randomly nerfed on older planets. Edited October 19, 2015 by Pagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Didn't bother me either at first, but then I woke up and said... . nope... this sucks. Haven't been back to GW2 since. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of this forced model beyond FP/OPS down leveling. Same here. I gave GW2 a go. Quickly realized it wasn't that good and down leveling was a reason why. There are a couple reasons I don't play GW2 and down leveling is one of them. I'm not a huge fan of FF14 for the same reason and it's even worse over there. Forcing everyone to down level all the time, 24/7 to make 4 year old content a new grind. Sorry but that pretty uninteresting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celldoom Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Mandatory level sync is the reason why i started playing again. Now those ganking idiots will think twice before ganking lowbies AND i can actually complete planetary story quests without "wasting time" because it's too low lvl. In fact i got my gf to start playing with me and we both rolled a new character and doing ALL the quests in order. We're 5 levels above Dromund Kaas but that doesn't matter since with level sync we'll be getting proper exp and items for our level and follow the story without skipping missions. What i WOULD love is for a complete revamp of the daily comendation gear to simply sell items that would match my level instead of having 30 different vendors for different levels. Edited October 19, 2015 by celldoom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Mandatory level sync is the reason why i started playing again. Now those ganking idiots will think twice before ganking lowbies AND i can actually complete planetary story quests without "wasting time" because it's too low lvl.sounds like you should have rolled on a pve server where you can choose when you are flagged or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimmerstil Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 of course they *THINK* its a good idea. no one makes business decisions to fail. that said, not all business decisions are wise. swtor is largely ridiculed for the decisions the devs make in the online realm. Source? Their biggest mistake was to go for a subscription model. That cost them millions of players who never even tried because of the monthly fee. also, how can they possibly have "usage data" to show the effect of something that hasn't even happened yet? all they know is that people played a lot of 12xp but that information can be interpreted in multiple ways. 1) people love the sp story or 2) people have no endgame content to play and are running out of things to do. No, the data showed that people played through the story, then stopped playing. If endgame was lacking they'd have exhausted what endgame content was available. They didn't. whether or not players want to go back to old planets, be nerfed and ignore all their levelling, to repeat content from 4 years ago is still to be determined.this is confirmation bias. most people dont post here at all. to interpret absence of feedback as positive or negative is foolish.^this! People find their way to the forum when they disagree with the changes, when they're happy with it, they play. Bioware will see soon enough if people do go back to earlier planets, for heroics, to play with friends or to finish some old quests. If people do go back, they've more reasons to stay, and possibly subscribe and/or buy CC. does everyone forget the wall of "where are my talent trees" threads after SoR? People are going to be shocked by the stat changes, the crafting changes, and being completely randomly nerfed on older planets. Absolutely, tens of thousands will be shocked, dozens, maybe a few hundred, will post about it and hundreds of thousands will shrug, adapt and continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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