Mandatory Level Sync, dumbest idea ever...No POINT in having a level based system.

[Max_Killjoy]

Sounds to me like his ganking/bullying fun days just got ruined. That's what you are really angry about... not mobs.

 

That's a hell of an assumption.

[Max_Killjoy]

But I did, you just don't like the answer. As you are leveling you unlock new content that requires addtional skills and "power" to complete.

 

So in other words, it's just a silly content gate, a series of otherwise meaningless time-grind checkpoints to keep people moving along in the "right" order.

[Max_Killjoy]

Sorry but everything here is a severe over-exaggeration.

 

I can go to Yavin as a level 60 right now and avoid every single mob on my speeder by simply going a few meters around them. The only ones I aggro are the unavoidable mobs in the caves, and even then they don't knock me off my speeder because of the good gear I'm wearing (which you will still have with level scaling).

 

In addition, KOTFE will have far more story content than either of the last two expansions, with a 100% confirmation of more being released in the following months. So the whole "Bioware is using level scaling to recycle content and cover up the fact that this is a shallow expansion" argument has no credibility what-so-ever. Sure, we aren't getting any new OPS or FPs, but I would much rather them take a few months extra to release good ones...rather than release them when they're bugged to oblivion like in SoR. On top of that, let's be logical here and consider the fact that story-based content with cinematics and voice overs takes much more time and effort to create than a few new operations. With this in mind, KOTFE gives us way more content than either of the previous expansions.

 

Level scaling will be good for the game overall. It's not a "down leveled experience to grind 4 year old content to get back what BW didn't think you did enough for in the past years of playing." It's a way to take all the content that was previously completely obsolete once you out-leveled it, and make it relevant again by giving it a challenge and proper rewards.

 

Maybe it makes it relevant for you. Does nothing of the sort for other people. And in some cases, it makes other content not worth the added tedium and slog.

[Max_Killjoy]

Why are you here if you fawn over GW2 so much? If you enjoy GW2 this much, shouldn't you be on their forums?

 

It is kinda bizarre, isn't it? He has a game he loves (GW2), but instead of playing that game, he goes to another game, says he hates the other game as it is, vehemently supports changes to make the game like the one he already loves, and tells people who like or even love the other game (SWTOR) the way it currently is that they should "embrace change" or get the hell out -- and for added irony, accuses people who are already paying money to play the game of "hating the game" and jumps on the "if you don't like these changes to the game, that means you already hate the game" movement.

[Mikahrtwo]

So in other words, it's just a silly content gate, a series of otherwise meaningless time-grind checkpoints to keep people moving along in the "right" order.

 

Thats was always only purpose of levels.

 

Levels in MMO have absolutely no sense except bigger numberz.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Max_Killjoy]

Thats was always only purpose of levels.

 

Levels in MMO have absolutely no sense except bigger numberz.

 

Silly us, we all thought it was about character growth and progression through an increasingly dangerous and hostile world.

[MillionsKNives]

But I did, you just don't like the answer. As you are leveling you unlock new content that requires addtional skills and "power" to complete. The old, lower level, content doesn't require either the power or the skills that the new content does. When you are "level synced" upon entering the old, lower level, content your "power" is reduced to be level appropriate. Since you don't lose your skills you should still be able to go through the old content more easily than when you were leveling and you should still have at least some challenge. You will also not be irritating the people that are still leveling. On PvP servers it should at least give people leveling a fighting chance against gankers, an added benefit.

 

P.S. Now if they were "up-syncing" as well as "down-syncing" you would have a point.

 

OK, I will admit you technically quoted my post and put some words after it, but what you wrote didn't answer my question, and you still don't seem to get it.

 

I will repeat myself again, what is the point of levels if everything you fight has the same level as you? If I gained a level and my new enemies are at my new level I haven't gained anything in relation to my enemies. But at least with the old system there were ways to show off my newfound power, I could go back to old level areas and actually feel liked I've gained power, because I have. Those enemies I struggled with on Alderaan are now dying in droves.

 

There are other ways to grant abilities and passives, and gate content, that don't require levels. Giving levels and then taking them away anytime you do anything other than the newest content is a tease and creates ill will where none needs to exist. If you insist on having me fight at the same level as everything else in the game then the actual levels themselves are meaningless.

[Mikahrtwo]

Silly us, we all thought it was about character growth and progression through an increasingly dangerous and hostile world.

 

Ye, Makeb is terrifying and lvl55 interstellar Regulators can god mode lvl10 Dromuund Kaas, and don let me even speak of lvl 60 drunken pirates on Rishi that can solo whole galaxy as nothing can touch them.

 

Ye.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[MillionsKNives]

Ye, Makeb is terrifying and lvl55 interstellar Regulators can god mode lvl10 Dromuund Kaas, and don let me even speak of lvl 60 drunken pirates on Rishi that can solo whole galaxy as nothing can touch them.

 

Ye.

 

Funny, why can they one shot mistaken players who go to those planets too soon then? You'd think that they would be the same power as the character. After all, that's what's so important about the level sync right?

[Mikahrtwo]

Funny, why can they one shot mistaken players who go to those planets too soon then? You'd think that they would be the same power as the character. After all, that's what's so important about the level sync right?

 

Yup. So go plead to BW to make up-sync.

 

If you just want to grind mobs for xp i dont see reason does it really matter WHERE you do it. Klor slugs on Korriban or pirates on Rishi.

 

Your character progression remains intact, on lvl1 you have few skills and on lvl60 you have many and more powerful ones.

 

Your story progress remains intact and you have no access to quests if your character hasnt progressed stroy enough. And you wont have access to some planets if you havent progressed story enough. Your character has no clue Belsavis exists until he is told about it.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Mikahrtwo

[Erasimus]

OK, I will admit you technically quoted my post and put some words after it, but what you wrote didn't answer my question, and you still don't seem to get it.

 

I will repeat myself again, what is the point of levels if everything you fight has the same level as you? If I gained a level and my new enemies are at my new level I haven't gained anything in relation to my enemies. But at least with the old system there were ways to show off my newfound power, I could go back to old level areas and actually feel liked I've gained power, because I have. Those enemies I struggled with on Alderaan are now dying in droves.

 

There are other ways to grant abilities and passives, and gate content, that don't require levels. Giving levels and then taking them away anytime you do anything other than the newest content is a tease and creates ill will where none needs to exist. If you insist on having me fight at the same level as everything else in the game then the actual levels themselves are meaningless.

 

But everything is not the same level as you with level sync. You still have your passives, skills, and the experience you've gained. You will still be more powerful than you were while leveling in the old content, just not as powerful as currently which seems, to me, to be more realistic.

 

Plus levels are only supposed to be meaningfull while leveling, usually upon the release of new content. They are an inidicator that tells you when you have "progressed" far enough to attempt new quests/content during the leveling process. Once you reach "max level" levels no longer have meaning and you switch to gear acquisition and learning new strategies as the only means of progression.

 

I don't believe people would be happy without levels as an indicator of progress it is too ubitquitious in MMORPG games. Sure you could have a message flash when you are ready for the next series of quests or just not let people leave an area until they are ready for the next. But these are all just ways of disguising your level and would probably just frustrate players as they are progressing.

 

Level sync is just a way of making previously completed content level appropriate which expands the number of areas that can remain fun and at least a bit challenging but not as challenging as when you were leveling which reflects your increase in power, knowledge, and skill.

Edited October 16, 2015 by Erasimus

[MillionsKNives]

But everything is not the same level as you with level sync. You still have your passives, skills, and the experience you've gained. You will still be more powerful than you were while leveling in the old content, just not as powerful as currently which seems, to me, to be more realistic.

 

Plus levels are only supposed to be meaningfull while leveling, usually upon the release of new content. They are an inidicator that tells you when you have "progressed" far enough to attempt new quests/content during the leveling process. Once you reach "max level" levels no longer have meaning and you switch to gear acquisition and learning new strategies as the only means of progression.

 

I don't believe people would be happy without levels as an indicator of progress it is too ubitquitious in MMORPG games. Sure you could have a message flash when you are ready for the next series of quests or just not let people leave an area until they are ready for the next. But these are all just ways of disguising your level and would probably just frustrate players as they are progressing.

 

Level sync is just a way of making previously completed content level appropriate which expands the number of areas that can remain fun and at least a bit challenging but not as challenging as when you were leveling which reflects your increase in power, knowledge, and skill.

 

OK, my bad. Everything is within a couple levels of you with level sync. Happy?

 

Skills and passives I already covered. "You still have your experience that you've gained"? What does that even mean? Experience is not a thing you can use, it is merely an expression of how long until you gain your new meaningless level.

 

Levels are meant to show progression and that your character has become more strong, not gating. That's a byproduct of the fact that enemies generally get stronger as you go farther in the game. With all enemies being relatively the same strength this meaning fades and all you're left with is gating. And gating can be done with easier mechanics than a leveling system, as I already mentioned.

 

Having no levels sure as hell makes a lot more sense than having your level change every time you go to a new area. I'm a level 60, but not really now I'm just a level 18. Oh and now I'm just a level 25. Now I'm a level 6. That's totally an indicator of progress. Talk about frustrating players.

 

Level sync is just a way of rehashing 4 year old content that has been done to death to artificially increase the amount of grind that players have to do. The fact that challenge and easy are used to describe the same system still gives me a tickle each time. "You'll still roflstomp mobs, but it will take you very slightly longer than it did before. That's challenge!"

Edited October 16, 2015 by MillionsKNives

[TUXs]

Level sync is just a way of rehashing 4 year old content that has been done to death to artificially increase the amount of grind that players have to do. The fact that challenge and easy are used to describe the same system still gives me a tickle each time. "You'll still roflstomp mobs, but it will take you very slightly longer than it did before. That's challenge!"

Absolutely spot on! And that defense of it gets me too lol. "This makes it more challenging"...while at the same time, sometimes in the same reply even, pointing out how Musco destroyed a Gold and 2 Silvers in no time while taking almost no damage.

[ZeroTypeR]

That about sums it up for me. I've experienced it in GW2, don't like it, and respectfully disagree with making it mandatory when this game didn't start out synced. I accepted it in GW2, because that's how it game was set up from the beginning.

 

I really don't care about being fair to low lv npc's, they're bots, not humans --no more, no less.

 

 

 

 

*on a side note* I don't consider my character to be some sorta god, it's just a high lv character.

[Erasimus]

OK, my bad. Everything is within a couple levels of you with level sync. Happy?

 

1. Skills and passives I already covered. "You still have your experience that you've gained"? What does that even mean? Experience is not a thing you can use, it is merely an expression of how long until you gain your new meaningless level.

 

2. Levels are meant to show progression and that your character has become more strong, not gating. That's a byproduct of the fact that enemies generally get stronger as you go farther in the game. With all enemies being relatively the same strength this meaning fades and all you're left with is gating. And gating can be done with easier mechanics than a leveling system, as I already mentioned.

 

3. Having no levels sure as hell makes a lot more sense than having your level change every time you go to a new area. I'm a level 60, but not really now I'm just a level 18. Oh and now I'm just a level 25. Now I'm a level 6. That's totally an indicator of progress. Talk about frustrating players.

 

4. Level sync is just a way of rehashing 4 year old content that has been done to death to artificially increase the amount of grind that players have to do. The fact that challenge and easy are used to describe the same system still gives me a tickle each time. "You'll still roflstomp mobs, but it will take you very slightly longer than it did before. That's challenge!"

 

1. I was speaking of experience in playing your character, what works, what doesn't, how to optimize your damage output and mimimze your damage taken not just filling cells on an XP bar. All things that your experience playing the game has hopefully made you better at doing.

 

2. And the few alternatives to gating with levels that I've seen haven't seemed to go over well, do you have some examples of MMORPGs that don't use levels as an example? The only one I've tried was TSW and I personally detested the leveling experience and considered it a failed experiment.

 

3. I don't find it frustrating and there are enough replies supporting the syncing that I'd guess I'm not alone. Plus my level hasn't really changed. I can go back and be competitive on the higher progression planets at any time. I'm not "stuck" on the leveling planet(s). While I can understand your viewpoint we're simply not going to be able to agree on this point.

 

4. And we'll just have to disagree on this point as well. Personally I seldom ever go back to a leveling planet except to level another character. With this change I most likely will go back. So for me this expands my Star Wars universe and makes it more interesting. I don't consider it to be simply rehashing old content.

 

I'm glad they are giving level syncing a try and hope it works out well for the community.

[Max_Killjoy]

Absolutely spot on! And that defense of it gets me too lol. "This makes it more challenging"...while at the same time, sometimes in the same reply even, pointing out how Musco destroyed a Gold and 2 Silvers in no time while taking almost no damage.

 

 

It's priceless, isn't i?

 

"It makes it more challenging!" and often in the same post "Stop worrying, Musco destroyed those mobs!"

 

So... which is it, pro-mandatory guys?

[Mvptony]

I Agree Worst idea ever

 

Level Sync makes game more challenging no way it's just pure stupidity but when i kill you on a low level character, i'll be /boohoo -ing you i got characters both eu and us so just have the balls to put up your character name and server i'll be there we can meet on any planet, and i show you how anoing it is with level sync, cuz i kill you even though your level 65

[WingsofCrystal]

Absolutely spot on! And that defense of it gets me too lol. "This makes it more challenging"...while at the same time, sometimes in the same reply even, pointing out how Musco destroyed a Gold and 2 Silvers in no time while taking almost no damage.

 

I saw that as well and guess I just don't get level sync the way it was shown.

 

If it is meant to bring me down to the level of the content that I am playing then why can I still crush things? If I can still crush things because I have more talents and richer armor then why bother to level sync? Leveling content is tuned around the skills and armor that I will have while leveling which is much less than my synced down power and abilities.

 

I guess that I am asking what is the point of the level sync? From what I have read, people are saying that you can go back to earlier content and still get XP and level appropriate drops. Level sync makes old lower content again relavent no matter what one's progression is.

 

It seems to me that if I have to go back to level 20 content to get my 60 to 65, something is screwed up. If I take my level 40 and go back to level 20 content that I did not play while level 20 to get XP, won't I likely end up over leveled for my level 40 content and be synced down for that or will I wait until I am level 55 to do the level 40 content?

 

As far as level appropriate drops, all I can say is LOL. 99% of the drops that I get while leveling up and playing content at my level are junk and little better then vendor trash. Will the level appropriate drops when I am synced down all of a sudden become wonderful? Will they be better than the drops I will get when playing content at my level?

 

I guess I don't really care about level sync, because I have no desire to play old content that I have done many times over again and again. I just don't get it and don't understand why this was done and utilized resources that could have been applied with better return in other areas of the game.

Edited October 17, 2015 by WingsofCrystal

[tavrinDosa]

It's priceless, isn't i?

 

"It makes it more challenging!" and often in the same post "Stop worrying, Musco destroyed those mobs!"

 

So... which is it, pro-mandatory guys?

 

Oh! you caught that one random guy contradicting himself. the whole argument is crumbling, i can smell the optional hotfix coming.

 

nope, optional still isn't the way to go. Everyone has to participate in a system like this for it to work otherwise people will just skip it. Future quests, events, story content are all broadened with this system in place and to make it optional would muddy up everything. No, make it mandatory as if thats the way it's always been. This creates longevity and doesn't pander to ignorance.

[Philmors]

It's priceless, isn't i?

 

"It makes it more challenging!" and often in the same post "Stop worrying, Musco destroyed those mobs!"

 

So... which is it, pro-mandatory guys?

 

Can't it be both? they want the lowbie content to be more challenging than it is currently, which is none at all, but want to still show that your levels still mean something.

[Max_Killjoy]

Can't it be both? they want the lowbie content to be more challenging than it is currently, which is none at all, but want to still show that your levels still mean something.

 

Well... if we're going to "still wipe out mobs" it can't really be much of a challenge, can it?

 

So far, it sounds more like it's just going to be more of a tedious slog as you'll have to clear or evade open-world lowbie-trash mobs that you could ignore before.

[Mvptony]

Just keeping this post in the top, since i agree

[Pscyon]

Worst idea ever? Nah. You've not been on enough Suggestions forums. There's terrible ideas even here on TOR's version, have a look!

 

There's both good and bad aspects to this level sync thing. I'm not sure why people can think of it as merely good or bad. Guess the two-choice dialogue system is similar to people's RL way of thinking.

[Mvptony]

Worst idea ever? Nah. You've not been on enough Suggestions forums. There's terrible ideas even here on TOR's version, have a look!

 

There's both good and bad aspects to this level sync thing. I'm not sure why people can think of it as merely good or bad. Guess the two-choice dialogue system is similar to people's RL way of thinking.

 

So many different point of views on this Level Sync i'm against which i make clear here :http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=841565

 

Why change concept of entire game after 4 years? It's like they forget about us subs that like the game as it is and spend endless hours on playing this game exploiting the entire content of the game.

We don't get any saying in this only way to make a statement in this case is to leave the game, but when you spend a huge amount of money on cartel market, you hate to see your self leaving the game for the 2nd time.

But all the things i love about the game is now change or removed so what choice do i have? hate to leave an investment like it has been for me in this game because they listened to the wrong ideas for future gameplay, only the bad players and people that only play max 15 hours a week welcomes the changes, us people that play almost everyday with over 12 level 60's on a PvP server get nothing out of this level sync other than the opportunity to be easily killed by a bunch of lower level characters if we go back on old planets.

It was fun being able to solo old content, With the prices on stronghold and guild ships, you need farmers for gathering enough credits. They say the loot will be attuned to you current level the same with xp, but when you lvl 65 you dont need that stuff, but you might need to finish Planetary achievements and that now will take a lot of time because you have to fight every mob on the planet.

The fun was being invincible to all lower content, and that it is the whole backbone in a level based game, Your reward for being high level is you can survive multiple lowbies to attack you.

[Transcendent]

We don't get any saying in this only way to make a statement in this case is to leave the game, but when you spend a huge amount of money on cartel market, you hate to see your self leaving the game for the 2nd time.

 

The time invested and the money invested in playing SWTOR are not enough of an anchor to keep me here paying for a product I will not enjoy. They had a potentially good idea with level sync, but I don't think they went far enough with it, and certainly didn't give enough options with it.

 

Choice being the key part of those options.