azudelphi Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And yet both cars get you from A to B in the very same manner. One shotting mobs or 3 shotting them doesn't scream the need for a mechanic that needs to be placed on everyone in game. Actually, being totally indestructible vs mortal is very different from a gameplay / mechanics standpoint... really, the key difference in what is changing is whether the player is mechanically able to die. The paradigm is shifting away from the immortal player on low level planets towards one of more risk / consequence; to that end, this is not a big deal and if it allows them to formulate additional systems around that. Basically that means that they probably feel the system as it exists limits the number of destinations they can take us in terms of content expansions and additional system integrating on existing worlds. This is probably the framework for creating new options on planets without having to hide everything behind an instance wall or separate zoning. The question, as always, is what has not been revealed yet which helps explain the "Why" of this change? Maybe it will be good, maybe it will be bad. I'm trying to keep my mind open at this point... while remaining cautiously and ever so slightly optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Or they leave it mandatory and people discover they like the change and continue to subscribe. By that reasoning, maybe PvP should be mandatory too huh? Maybe some will like it and continue to sub. If you don't like PvP it's just because you're bad and just like roflstomping NPCs...right? Optional is the way to go...not forced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Sure, some will ... someone has to be the sucker in this situation. You will learn how things really work one day. The only thing that needs learning is yourself and the fact that other people can like something you won't and be happy about it. And if they are happy about it and enjoying it, they can't be suckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 By that reasoning, maybe PvP should be mandatory too huh? Maybe some will like it and continue to sub. If you don't like PvP it's just because you're bad and just like roflstomping NPCs...right? Optional is the way to go...not forced. I have no issue with Optional, but I'm preparing for it to be mandatory because I don't believe it to be changing anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelaso Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And let the division of the community begin just like with flying on WoW. What a sad event in this games history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faelandaea Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I just posted this in another thread, but hey since I still ave the link handy I will post it here also. I found an informational video for the folks that think their life has been ruined by a game (no I am NOT saying everyone has to like the sync - this is aimed ONLY at the ones who refuse to acknowledge that it IS just a game and make it sound like BW has ruined their life completely somehow - entitled people, mostly): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEJDGLF-e18 Goodnight, folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The sad thing is, there's a very easy and happy medium Bioware could strike. • make it optional • make all Heroic missions require it for rewards People would use it...they just wouldn't be forced to use it. Please explain how this is very easy... Apparently you are an IT specialist who knows how easy it is to just reprogram something made with the Hero Engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Please explain how this is very easy... Apparently you are an IT specialist who knows how easy it is to just reprogram something made with the Hero Engine. I am going to guess TUXs response based on his previous responses... He isn't. He doesn't feel a need to care about the programming side. He is a customer and it is not his duty to understand how a feature is implemented / modified / removed. That's what the developers are there to do. I agree we as customers should give feedback as we see fit; but of course at the same time making assumptions about the complexity, feasibility, cost-benefit ratios, and practicality should also be used to create realistic expectations. Edited October 2, 2015 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Please explain how this is very easy... Apparently you are an IT specialist who knows how easy it is to just reprogram something made with the Hero Engine. Seriously? You doubt their skills that much? Have you not seen the things they've added to this game? Given the complexity of other things they've done, this seems like an easy solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And let the division of the community begin just like with flying on WoW. What a sad event in this games history. Yeah, no. I doubt this 'division' in the community is going to be any more significant than the oh-so-serious drama over the Cartel Slot Machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Seriously? You doubt their skills that much? Have you not seen the things they've added to this game? Given the complexity of other things they've done, this seems like an easy solution. At the same time, TUXs, how long did it take for some of those supposed easy features take to be implemented. I'm not saying their bad at their job but there's got to be more to it then just skill level. e.g. Hero Engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So you agree that making level-sync optional would be a waste of time? I thought you are against level-sync! Fun for some. Not fun for others at this point in SWTOR. If both lead you to the same place, let gamers choose how they get there. Makes the game feel more involved and entertaining. Anyway, exactly HOW you want to implement it as optional. Do you have the insight into SWTOR's engine and know that it can work with this new feature? Activating and deactivating XP boosts is one thing, the level sync is on the complete different level of complexity. If bolster can take any toon and up their level, down leveling is a similar process. If bolster can be used in PVP areas, Gree areas, Ops bosses, FP instances and pretty much anywhere BW wants to put it. No reason to think down leveling someone couldn't be done as an option to click off the buff. there are cut offs for bolster, scaling that goes into bolster. I have no doubt in my mind it can be done with down leveling players so that it was optional. I'm all for giving people more options but it needs to be balanced. What's the point of downscaling yourself if someone else plays in the god mode and gets the same epic rewards as you? They dont get the reward if their not scaled or don't have the aforementioned buff. Easily fixed. Since people that play in the god mode claim that they do it just "for fun", it seems they don't need the reward incentive so take the scaled rewards from them. Is that possible? Is this open to exploits? On paper this sounds like a huge possibility to exploit.. Again, the only expolite is if BW screw it up. You get the reward with the down leveling debuff. Normal drops if you don't have it with no quest reward. You take a quest, you do in the god mode, then when you are supposed to return the quest you turn scaling on and BAM. You have epic rewards... Can't pick up those quests if you are not down leveled Or if you adjust the scaling (up or down) with those quests they are terminated. Optional is very doable just based off bolster and that mechanic. Handling rewards would be simple enough as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 At the same time, TUXs, how long did it take for some of those supposed easy features take to be implemented. I'm not saying their bad at their job but there's got to be more to it then just skill level. e.g. Hero Engine. How long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Yeah, no. I doubt this 'division' in the community is going to be any more significant than the oh-so-serious drama over the Cartel Slot Machine. I agree, it'll end up being forgotten when the next big not so big issue happens and causes another psuedo-meltdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 How long? We're getting Capes (that have been fixed in previews for so long) to no longer clip on most vehicles finally and that's been since Launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And let the division of the community begin just like with flying on WoW. What a sad event in this games history. Thats a good point. A change made that divided the community, wasn't game breaking, could be fun at times but no even remotely something that needed to happen all the time. It caused a problem like it or not. Down leveling everyone seems to be having that same affect here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Seriously? You doubt their skills that much? No, thank you for your incorrect conclusion, but the fact that I contend it's not easy to rip something out of millions of lines of code which is probably is connected to various other aspects of the game has nothing to do with skills but just realistic expectations of what can be done within a couple of weeks. So don't even start interpreting wild things into my words please. Have you not seen the things they've added to this game? Given the complexity of other things they've done, this seems like an easy solution. Seems being the operative word. How long do you think this expansion has been in the making? Do you really think you can just change one aspect in a game without it affecting anything else? You said it yourself: complexity...you don't JUST turn that around as if it's nothing. And it's certainly clear now that the Hero Engine is not ideal so that just adds another level of question marks in the equation... Seriously? You have got to be kidding. Edited October 2, 2015 by Tsillah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDelectus Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I just posted this in another thread, but hey since I still ave the link handy I will post it here also. I found an informational video for the folks that think their life has been ruined by a game (no I am NOT saying everyone has to like the sync - this is aimed ONLY at the ones who refuse to acknowledge that it IS just a game and make it sound like BW has ruined their life completely somehow - entitled people, mostly): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEJDGLF-e18 Goodnight, folks "Its just a. XXXXXXX" drives me insane. I have the right to project and determine emotional value whomever, whatever and whenever I wish. If I find TOR to be of greater emotional value than sports, religion, other people...well it is a fact. Feelings by nature are not driven by logic, trying to rationalize relative value in the scope of existence is a logic-driven argument in a problem that is emotionally driven. People try to bring this up when I become visibly...tense whenever Disney's fake universe and their reboot decision is discussed. Star Wars is pretty much...50% of my reality, by choice. It consumes much thought and a large portion of my heart. Whether other people approve or understand...I couldn't care less. Just don't tell me my feelings are invalid because Star Wars is just a XXX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NogueiraA Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I see some arguments like "I like to solo a world boss"... Soloing the wb might be fun for you, one person, but at the same time you are potentially ruining the fun that 10-20 people could have had killing it at level, but who's still trying to get a group together when you come and kill it. This is ONE of the reasons level sync should NOT be optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakakiba Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 How many are you willing to sit here through ? When your guild dies because they went off with their friends to play whatever game they ran to. Everyone has their breaking point and you will too. As awesome as Star Wars is how much fun are you really going to have on minimally populated server. As much as I'm having now, as my fun doesn't require others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eanelinea Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The sad thing is, there's a very easy and happy medium Bioware could strike. • make it optional • make all Heroic missions require it for rewards People would use it...they just wouldn't be forced to use it. This is perfect. Hell, at first during the stream, I thought the downscaling was ONLY for the Heroic Mission Terminal quest until he said it was the entire planet. Then I went wait, ***? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I see some arguments like "I like to solo a world boss"... Soloing the wb might be fun for you, one person, but at the same time you are potentially ruining the fun that 10-20 people could have had killing it at level, but who's still trying to get a group together when you come and kill it. This is ONE of the reasons level sync should NOT be optional. I agree, World Bosses should require groups of people to complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 "Its just a. XXXXXXX" drives me insane. I have the right to project and determine emotional value whomever, whatever and whenever I wish. If I find TOR to be of greater emotional value than sports, religion, other people...well it is a fact. Feelings by nature are not driven by logic, trying to rationalize relative value in the scope of existence is a logic-driven argument in a problem that is emotionally driven. People try to bring this up when I become visibly...tense whenever Disney's fake universe and their reboot decision is discussed. Star Wars is pretty much...50% of my reality, by choice. It consumes much thought and a large portion of my heart. Whether other people approve or understand...I couldn't care less. Just don't tell me my feelings are invalid because Star Wars is just a XXX. If a storm rages and you get outside, you get wet. The same goes for this forum. If you don't want people to piss over your opinions, don't post em. You can't choose how people react to you in a public forum. Just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Fun for some. Not fun for others at this point in SWTOR. If both lead you to the same place, let gamers choose how they get there. Makes the game feel more involved and entertaining. If bolster can take any toon and up their level, down leveling is a similar process. If bolster can be used in PVP areas, Gree areas, Ops bosses, FP instances and pretty much anywhere BW wants to put it. No reason to think down leveling someone couldn't be done as an option to click off the buff. there are cut offs for bolster, scaling that goes into bolster. I have no doubt in my mind it can be done with down leveling players so that it was optional. They dont get the reward if their not scaled or don't have the aforementioned buff. Easily fixed. Again, the only expolite is if BW screw it up. You get the reward with the down leveling debuff. Normal drops if you don't have it with no quest reward. Can't pick up those quests if you are not down leveled Or if you adjust the scaling (up or down) with those quests they are terminated. Optional is very doable just based off bolster and that mechanic. Handling rewards would be simple enough as well. So? You would have situations where players do a difficult quest while not synced, get to turn in, turn sync back on, complete it, and get rewards. That'd be horrible. Also this change means that for events like the Rakghoul Event, any player can play together. It means in OW PVP everyone is on a much closer playing field. Conquest Commanders and World Bosses are actually game inclusive activities. It means that should they ever want to add a new questline to the game, they can do so on lower level planets. Imagine the possibilities if they made it where there were new dailies on old planets??? The possibilities are literally endless. Not every chapter of Star Wars has to have a new planet, many times in the movies, the main characters go back to say, Tatooine. Star Wars is not Star Wars if going back to a lower level planet means you're suddenly going to crush everyone. Those Imperial Soldiers on Hoth and Balmorra are the SAME FREAKING SOLDIERS, so therefore, they should be equally as skilled. However, should you return, it's not like you're suddenly a novice again, you still have the skills you've earned and the gear on top of it like set bonuses, etc (At least I presume), so you're still gaining in strength, it's just the enemies remain constant. It makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 No, thank you for your incorrect conclusion but the fact that I contend it's not easy to rip something out of millions of lines of code and probably is connected to various other aspects of the game has nothing to do with skills but just realistic expectations of what can be done within a couple of weeks. So don't even start interpreting wild things into my words please. Seems being the operative word. How long do you think this expansion has been in the making? Do you really think you can just change one aspect in a game without it affecting anything else? You said it yourself: complexity...you don't JUST turn that around as if it's nothing. And it's certainly clear now that the Hero Engine is not ideal so that just adds another level of question marks in the equation... Seriously? You have got to be kidding. You're the one who appears to think it's some monumental task, not me. Even now you make it sound like it's beyond the realm of feasible. How long? It's a good thing we're not using the Hero Engine then huh? We're using a custom Bioware engine that they designed from an incomplete alpha of the Hero Engine. And lets be honest here...using the term "easy" there, didn't mean I thought it was a simple task, I was quite obviously talking about an idea that would make both sides happy...it was easy to find a way to please both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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