tavrinDosa Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Sure. But that would only be half of the equation. Right now you get three advantages for leveling. One, abilities. Two, better stats, and dodge percentages. Three, better gear. This downscaling gets rid of two of the three. So, again I say, What is the point? ... Leveling is a soft tracker for determining how far in the story you have progressed and for some stories a certain level is a prerequisite for beginning that story. Once you reach max level a whole new offering happens which is end game flash points and raids. Those higher tierd difficulties are only for max level characters so in order to have access to those in hard mode you'll need to have leveled through all the content. Leveling is also used to determine brackets in pvp I understand you don't have to complete any of the story in order to reach max level but that's one way to level. Also bud if all you do at end game is gank lowbies and kill Lower level mobs for a random achievement, then yeh there isn't any point but I would also argue that pre 4.0 for someone like that there wasnt a point to playing to begin with. There are other games other than swtor that cater to that type of meta. Edited October 2, 2015 by tavrinDosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerSnapsBack Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I guess no one is a real open world pvper then If you were a 'real open world pvper', this is not the game you would be playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBalzack Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I am someone who is very set in his ways, and generally dislike most change. For example I hate that SWTOR copied what WoW did with taking away skill trees last year or whenver. And I think that basically all the changes coming to companions are super lame. But this. I just am not really seeing the negative side of it, at least from my own perspective of how I generally play the game- which I'm sure differs from a lot of others! But the only reason I can think of for why I ever return to a lower level planet would be to have an easier time training up my gathering skills in a relatively aggro free environment. And that's really it. Not only that, but I'm sure that the fact I farm in that way pisses a certain segment of people off anyways. Now that's just me. I am someone who doesn't like to do dailies though. And I'm guessing that a lot of the angst is from people wanting to be able to do lower level dailies in an easier fashion. I don't really have an opinion on that complaint, so I don't have much to say on that end. But anyways. The way I see it, the positives would be: -World PvP. Because, hey. This actually makes me interested in leveling on a pvp server again. Instead of being 1 shot while leveling, you can actually have legitimate battles? That sounds freaking awesome, regardless of how small or large scale they would end up being. - World bosses actually being legitimate raiding content. Ok, that sounds awesome as well. No more level 60's camping "The One" and killing it over and over out of boredom. Instead it will become a fun adventure you go on, likely leading to more party members and guild mates. I don't know guys. I think it might be kind of cool. Maybe I'll end up hating it with every fiber of my being, and totally eat these words. Or maybe not. I guess we'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Spc Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Sure. But that would only be half of the equation. Right now you get three advantages for leveling. One, abilities. Two, better stats, and dodge percentages. Three, better gear. This downscaling gets rid of two of the three. So, again I say, What is the point? There's no point. Gear is useless and levels are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sangwine Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 As a RPer, I like to be able to go to lower level planets and NOT aggro every single mob in the area. I like to be able to go to locations and RP without the need to fight every two minutes when mobs respawn around me. That would break immersion really bad and exploration would be a lot less pleasurable. Some of us hang out in this game, not just go mob killing all the time, so having the option to do one or the other is important to us. My high level and the ability to oneshot low-level mobs or to not even aggro them is the reward that I worked hard to get - the gear I could get from mobs (which apparently isn't going to be my level) is not a replacement reward once I have endgame gear. I also won't get XP, all that will happen is that this will make lower level planets unRPable so people will have fewer places to RP in peace. Please, don't take away my levels, I've worked hard for them! If I want to do lower level content and get rewards good for my level, I will make a new toon and actually level up, not take an old toon back to a planet! If I just want to do the story, I'd rather do it with a toon that can avoid mobs or insta kill them so that I can actually focus on the story. PLEASE, MAKE IT OPTIONAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 As a RPer, I like to be able to go to lower level planets and NOT aggro every single mob in the area. I like to be able to go to locations and RP without the need to fight every two minutes when mobs respawn around me. That would break immersion really bad and exploration would be a lot less pleasurable. Some of us hang out in this game, not just go mob killing all the time, so having the option to do one or the other is important to us. My high level and the ability to oneshot low-level mobs or to not even aggro them is the reward that I worked hard to get - the gear I could get from mobs (which apparently isn't going to be my level) is not a replacement reward once I have endgame gear. I also won't get XP, all that will happen is that this will make lower level planets unRPable so people will have fewer places to RP in peace. Please, don't take away my levels, I've worked hard for them! If I want to do lower level content and get rewards good for my level, I will make a new toon and actually level up, not take an old toon back to a planet! If I just want to do the story, I'd rather do it with a toon that can avoid mobs or insta kill them so that I can actually focus on the story. PLEASE, MAKE IT OPTIONAL! As someone that has done a lot of RP in the past, how, exactly, does standing next to a hostile mob figure into immersion? To me, that's the biggest immersion breaker ever. Not sure how you justify that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBalzack Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) As a RPer, I like to be able to go to lower level planets and NOT aggro every single mob in the area. I like to be able to go to locations and RP without the need to fight every two minutes when mobs respawn around me. That would break immersion really bad and exploration would be a lot less pleasurable. Some of us hang out in this game, not just go mob killing all the time, so having the option to do one or the other is important to us. My high level and the ability to oneshot low-level mobs or to not even aggro them is the reward that I worked hard to get - the gear I could get from mobs (which apparently isn't going to be my level) is not a replacement reward once I have endgame gear. I also won't get XP, all that will happen is that this will make lower level planets unRPable so people will have fewer places to RP in peace. Please, don't take away my levels, I've worked hard for them! If I want to do lower level content and get rewards good for my level, I will make a new toon and actually level up, not take an old toon back to a planet! If I just want to do the story, I'd rather do it with a toon that can avoid mobs or insta kill them so that I can actually focus on the story. PLEASE, MAKE IT OPTIONAL! I think that your opinion is perfectly valid, so I don't mean to dismiss it or anything. But as an RPer, if you really think about it. Doesn't it make more sense that your character on any given planet is only top tier in terms of power for that zone, as opposed to your character being like 20 times more powerful than everything else and practically invincible even when fighting against the largest and most fearsome monsters- Or hell, even a Sith/Jedi of a similar rank to you. I don't know if you ever played WoW, but back in the day there was kind of a conundrum in that the nation of Trolls were driven off of their main island by a level 10 witch doctor named Zalazane. In lore, this guy was practically one of the most powerful witch doctors of all time. And a max level heroic world faction boss couldn't even defeat him for years on end. But in game he was a level 10 mob that could easily be defeated by a player after an hour of playing. It became accepted at a certain point, that leveling and immersion are kind of separate in that you are likely a glorious and all powerful hero regardless of what part of the game you're in. And levels are just a means to an end for seperating content and keeping a character on a linear path through his or her adventure. Anyways. Your opinion on the matter is perfectly valid, because if that feeling of total power is what creates immersion and enhances your experience then more power to you. But just my two cents on the matter of the RP perspective. Edited October 2, 2015 by LordBalzack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Sorry, but this whole change SUCKS. I used to visit older planets to farm mats when I need them, but now I just don't care and won't be visiting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Sullster- Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Anybody have an example of a game with level syncing that is awesome? City of Heroes did this best but it was optional. Side kick and Exemplar It wasn't a level sync forced by lower level areas but more by being able to get experience and do missions attributed to those areas. Had a friend that was 15 and you were 50? You join them and Exemplar down to their level, help them out on missions etc. When you were done you left group and were back at your original level (you could still get exp and rewards equivalent to your level) Had a friend that was 15 and you were 50 - but you needed help on a mission? They join you and you activate the sidekick function, they were then within your level and could help you on 2 man missions, higher difficulties etc. They also got experience equivalent to what they would get doing their level stuff. Once done they left and were back to original level. The big thing is that it was OPTIONAL. Edited October 2, 2015 by -Sullster- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revial Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Mandatory down-scaling of levels means levels are completely pointless. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that type of design, but there are very few stat-driven games where that type of design paradigm actually makes sense. It would make a lot more sense for it to be an optional toggle, as there are certainly a few usage scenarios where being down-scaled can make sense (primarily centering around playing with lower-level friends). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurenost Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 First you remove CQ crafting and now you downscale our lvl to planets....I won't do conquests anymore as soon as this hits.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenewbie Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Sorry, but this whole change SUCKS. I used to visit older planets to farm mats when I need them, but now I just don't care and won't be visiting them. Why not? Higher level characters will be able to get more mats from each node based on how high your skill level is in that gather skill. Might actually make it worth it to get to level 500 gather skill before leveling the character otherwise so random nodes that are discovered have higher value than they otherwise would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 First you remove CQ crafting and now you downscale our lvl to planets....I won't do conquests anymore as soon as this hits.... Does that mean that a guild that's actually willing to work for it, instead of crafting their way to the top might actually win something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SebastiaanZ Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Obviously Bioware is just going to ignore this issue, this issue that is way bigger then some stupid Cartel Market change nobody cares about and stay silent until the expansion, while this issue REQUIRES attention from Bioware. WE ARE NOT HAPPY BIOWARE! Listen to your playerbase and make it optional! RIP SWTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 We could start a really nice upscale bar with all of the whine around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uruare Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 As much as I think it should level sync'ing in open world content should be optional, I also think its flat-out malarkey to run around moaning like it's going to kill the game if it isn't. This isn't going to be the death of SWTOR. All this 'RIP SWTOR' bullpucky is the province of overdramatism on the parts of those that seem to think that annoyance = catastrophe. How the heck do some of you handle life? Is it that you just don't, and every annoyance causes total meltdowns in your lives? Level sync'ing should damn well be optional because having it not be is clearly going to be annoying to some people for a whole rainbow of reasons. Make it a toggle, all that annoyance goes away, but none of the benefits (insofar as that I or anyone can see or speculate upon as yet) do. Maybe we're wrong. Maybe they've got some great, grand something up their sleeves that'll make it apparent that it was utterly vital that everyone be shoehorned into being downleveled in lower level areas. I sincerely doubt it, but hey, its possible, I don't have secret knowledge about anything here. And neither do you, doomsayers. You're taking a giant piss on your own position of interest. Knock it off. You sound like screaming children in the grocery store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) How the heck do some of you handle life? Is it that you just don't, and every annoyance causes total meltdowns in your lives? Like most things, presumably, one of 3 options : better, same, worse. Better: Since they talk to a face to face human being, unlike the internet anonymity, they are more calm, rational, and problem solving... Same: They are "those" kind of customers / people. They will scream at you, ask for a supervisor, call the governing body (if applicable) that rules your business type, video / post the interaction on social media to cause sales loss... Worse: Since this is a moderated board, I'll leave it at... worse. Read the news, and you'll know what I mean... And, if people are "same" or "worse" IRL, they certainly won't see the light when they are on a game board, no matter how many comments are made to get them to change... Edited October 2, 2015 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milx Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDFgtFXfnv0:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwright Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'll probably be happy with the mandatory down scaling. I'm pretty sure I'll have fun. Some other things about the expansion I am not clear on, and I may not like. If so, I'll either leave the game from boredom/disinterest, or find some other way to enjoy myself in the game without going any further in the story. That is another story. As it is now, we have subscribers who to some extent are happy or content with the game. They play and have fun and pay their subscription. When this goes live, we will have those are still happy, and those who are not and will leave. Considering subscribers only, those who stay will be paying into the game, the ones who leave will not. Word of this change is now spreading. Many people do not go to the forums or watch live streams.They are only now beginning to hear of this. Today, 5 guild members (not "my guild", just the one I am in), left when they heard of this today. 3 are invested in another game; they returned to it exclusively. 2 others chose to follow them. This is 1 day after the announcement. I have no idea how many more will or will not leave as more learn of this. In any case, people will and are leaving. I see it. It is not hypothetical. It is anecdotal, but it says to me that those who dislike it and want to leave, will leave. They don't go to the forums to protest, they simply go have fun elsewhere. Why are these people I know leaving? They do not like the change. I can theorize as to why they do not like it, as I have known them for quite some time. But, it doesn't matter why they dislike it; it matters that they dislike it and washed their hands of the game. One can learn here while reading through this thread, that their leaving will magically improve the game somehow. Since they dislike mandatory down scaling, I am told that by default they are (to the use the internet 'tough guy' jargon) "bads", noobs","clowns" ,"whiners" and"scrubs", among other derogatory terms. For good measure, a couple of weak reasons for having no option are inserted in between the insults, usually with obligatory condescension. To me, they are not at all persuasive. Honestly, one should be embarrassed to be associated with the level of "reasoning" displayed. I've been thinking about this change and I'll probably be happy with it. I used to play Rift; it had a mentoring system whereby one could lower their level. I liked it, I used it very often. Other things about the game I did not like too much; I lost interest eventually and no longer play.But, I did like the mentoring system. I returned to lower level ares often and made use of the mentoring system. No minds will be changed here, particularly seeing the nature of objections to those wanting an option. "Argument" is pointless here; the only thing useful is stating where one stands on the question.The change will go live and I expect no option to be placed into the game personally. But, for the record and in the off chance that developers take this thread into consideration, I'll have to side with those asking for an option. I really do not and should not care if someone does in fact enjoy killing grayed out mobs, if they find it tedious to fight mobs everywhere when they previously did not need to, or anything else. I'm happy to let them be. People loosing interest and leaving fundamentally seems a bad thing. Will it be the "death of the game" if it is mandatory (and it will be)? I really doubt it. Neither is it good. I believe I will be happy with this change. I already I can imagine some fun things I will do as a result of it. But I'm not the only one playing and I can't see others having the option as a threat to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 As a RPer, I like to be able to go to lower level planets and NOT aggro every single mob in the area. This too. I don't want to slug my way through million poorly-placed mobs when visiting planets for events of some sort. Thanks for reminding me of this. This issue made additional story playthroughs a massive pain instead of enjoyable. Thankfully the issue is only on certain planets, but still. Now, its possible that Bioware is going to readjust planets mob placement like they said but I believe it if I see it. On the other hand, I have almost all classes at high level by now and the ones I don't have, well, not even 12x xp gave me enough incentive to play them. Trash is trash even if you cover it in whipped cream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KookieMaster Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Everyone was singing kumbaya and holding hands til this little bomb shell came out. Now everyone is at each others throats. Kinda sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Ok. So let's take a step back here. Let me take a step back. Right from the start, let me just say that I like level sync. I think it is a great change that will really liven things up on planets. But on further reflection, I'm beginning to realize the even thought that is the case, it really isn't going to do much after the nuance of this change wears off. Why? People don't go and hang out on lower level planets. They don't frequent those worlds because there is no need to do so. Sure, you can go as an over leveled toon every once in a while to kill a WB or to help a guildie, but generally there is nothing that keeps you going back routinely. That doesn't change my position on level sync, but it certainly puts it into perspective. Those of you that are outraged and announcing the end of SWTOR don't spend any significant time on lowbie planets either. I know this because there is nothing to do there. This game is not a sandbox that requires you to go those areas. This game does not have open world housing where you go to these planets everyday to get to your home. The idea that you are drawing the line in the sand over this when the game suffers from much more serious problems is laughable. And if that is your tactic to force a change, forget it. You are in the minority that think this change will kill the game. You will sadly be on the outside looking in over something that is insignificant if you follow through with your threats. Now, it may be that this level sync is a result of something else. It may be that these planets are now going to be relevant again because as part of KoTFE we will have to return to these places and run a series quests to advance the story. If so, level sync is important. But as it stands, we have no information to indicate that there is any reason to level sync the planets other than to put a coat of new paint on old content. So, my stance remains the same. I will, however, concede the following. Because in the grand scheme of things this level sync is not very important, and because most don't linger on lowbie planets just because they are there, the ability to opt out is fine. I still believe that the best thing to do, BW, is to stay the course and just do it. But if you decide to make it optional, I will just shrug and move one because it is of little consequence from a broader perspective. IF however the planets become relevant again to the larger story being told. And if suddenly we are back in those worlds for extended periods of time and this is the method you are using to make them challenging, then I'm back to insisting that level sync be mandatory. I have a sneaky suspicion that that is why level sync is actually a big part of KoTFE. I have nothing to base that on other than the timing of the introduction of this mechanic. BW, if that is the case, then carry on. Let's do this. If it is just a QoL change, then seriously, it isn't important. Do what you will. Whatever the case, don't let the alarmist scare you into doing something rash because level sync will not be the end of the game. It is hardly even relevant at this point. Edited October 2, 2015 by Rafaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Lets see, at first you say... Ok. So let's take a step back here. ...then follow with... The idea that you are drawing the line in the sand over this when the game suffers from much more serious problems is laughable. And if that is your tactic to force a change, forget it. You are in the minority that think this change will kill the game. You will sadly be on the outside looking in over something that is insignificant if you follow through with your threats. (underlines are mine for emphasis) At this point, you could say "water is wet" and some people would fight you on it. You won't reach them. You'll just get them madder, unless that was your point... Edited October 2, 2015 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) That doesn't change my position on level sync, but it certainly puts it into perspective. Those of you that are outraged and announcing the end of SWTOR don't spend any significant time on lowbie planets either. I know this because there is nothing to do there. I spend assloads more time on lowbie worlds than I do bumming about on Fleet, waiting for a queue to pop for ages. Also, let's not pretend this isn't Conquest 2.0: Alliance system, from all indications, will send you back to do lowbie Heroics and other low level content to earn Alliance-based Reputation or what have you. Same as Conquest sent you back. There's nothing new about any of this, level-synch is just there to people doing it easily. It's the new time-sink between monthly content. I don't expect Bioware to change it if they're set on it, but let's not pretend it's actually anything new. It's recycling old content, again. It's not going to be any more fun than Conquest made it, just slightly more rewarding. Edited October 2, 2015 by Transairion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) And this is what I picture me while reading . . . Edited October 2, 2015 by t-darko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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