Game Update 4.0 Class Changes: Jedi Consular + Sith Inquisitor

[Genaya]

It seems to be that the consistent theme we're seeing here is every class is getting a new utility mobility, which in the end puts us all where we already were with more buttons to worry about.

 

It would've been nice to see a little more innovation and some effort into giving classes abilities that addressed their current weak points instead of just giving everyone a blanket extra mobility utility. The shadowstep for assassin is largely unnecessary - we're already exceptionally mobile and there's little reason why a 'Sin should be kited as is, and even were that not the case, a shadowstep on a hatred 'Sin is largely un-needed where a vast portion of our damage comes from DoTs that should never fall off an opponent anyway.

 

I would've preferred to see another defensive utility added to address the Sin's inherent squishyness or even a passive bonus to their self heals (my juggernaut currently heals more from popping 1 utility on a 90 sec cooldown than a Sin does by keeping all his leeching DoTs applied and popping a 2min heal cooldown, death field and leeching strike at every opportunity which requires far more tracking of abilities and player skill on a class that is already far softer and needing those heals).

Edited September 28, 2015 by Genaya

[Fordbird]

Usually my first question is: "Okay who all joined? Let's group again and do another". I actually rarely notices classes. Either I have a good team or I don't.

 

I know - a bit off topic, but I had to digress there for convo so lemme get back on ...

 

In all 4 of the class changes thread, the same thing seems to be happening that happens with every major update. Someone reads a number here and there and think they are some crazy math genius, so they go to these forums and start freaking out, which causes other people to freak out and then the fire gets out of control. It's the same psychological concept as a panic when people of a town think their community is under attack by terrorists or something (when it was just firecrackers from someone;s leftover 4th of July celebration).

 

The same thing WILL happen in 4.0 that happens in every other major update of every other MMO ... eventually the people who detest change and are afraid of anything getting moved around on their precious hot-bar will learn to play their class, and the forums will slowly quiet down until the next big release.

 

There are a few changes happening in this update that I do not like - on paper. They look bad in the forum, but I have learned by experience to just wait and when everything goes live, to play it for myself and see if it is nearly as bad as people make it out to be or if it just looked bad on paper. Usually it turns out that it did just look bad on paper and I end up adapting to the class and successfully playing it very well - at least well enough for Raids and most other endgame content. I may not be perfect at it, but as long as I am having fun and the raid is not negatively effected by my play-style, we're okay. And my raid group IS pretty strict with watching parsers and tactics, letting people know where they are good and bad at, but they are positive about the critique and everyone learns from it and get better all around.

Once again...let me say that people are NOT upset over what these sorc/sage changes will mean in a raid. Pvp is the scenario in which these changes will drastically alter gameplay. The changes don't require a theory crafter infinitely running numbers to break them down for us. Sorcs have a 60m phase walk, immunity for 6 seconds, and a mobile barrier vs a 20m dash or backward jump. These abilities do not simply cancel each other out. From just simple subtraction, one can determine that there are 40/80m leftover respectively. And no, the 3 minute cd on sniper/GS dcd's will not close this gap either. You continue to day that "we'll just need to learn to play our classes and everything will be great" but the problem is that you are not understanding wth we/you (maybe both) are talking about. We are referring to PVP and how the new changes to this particular class will effect that....you have CONTINUALLY responded to our posts referring to PVE situations...we don't care if a sorc phase walks during the Torque HM fight!

[Faelandaea]

Same thing applies. You guys don't REALLY know how it will play out until it goes live and people start adapting to the new strategies. I have seen SO many people freak out with stuff "on-paper" then when the thing goes live, almost always the forums quiet down because people realize it wasn't as bad as it looked "on-paper". What I said relates to PvP just as much as PvE.

 

So it goes back to what I said before. MMO tradition - major changes get posted for an MMO upcoming update - people panic, the world is ending, etc. .. then the patch goes live and people end up realizing "hey, this isn't so bad."

Edited September 28, 2015 by Faelandaea

[Cireka]

well finally a reason to use the tier 3 stuff.

[Fordbird]

Same thing applies. You guys don't REALLY know how it will play out until it goes live and people start adapting to the new strategies. I have seen SO many people freak out with stuff "on-paper" then when the thing goes live, almost always the forums quiet down because people realize it wasn't as bad as it looked "on-paper". What I said relates to PvP just as much as PvE.

 

So it goes back to what I said before. MMO tradition - major changes get posted for an MMO upcoming update - people panic, the world is ending, etc. .. then the patch goes live and people end up realizing "hey, this isn't so bad."

 

How have the changes from 3.0 worked out? With sorcs being OP? Sounds farmiliar...almost as if there were multiple threads warning about it. I'm not sure what numbers you're referring to "working out on paper." A 60m phase walk doesn't give a lot of room for advanced mathematics for breakdown. Neither does 6 seconds of immunity from leaps/pulls/cc. Hell...mobile force barrier doesn't even have a # attached to it. This is not a L2P issue for the other 7 AC's. This is giving an already OP class even more utilities that WILL alter pvp significantly. If this is not clear to you, I don't know how else to help you. The problem is as clear as day for those of us that pvp, and since you have said you don't pvp, maybe that is where your understanding of our issues is at a deficit.

[Master-Nala]

Sorcs have a 60m phase walk, immunity for 6 seconds, and a mobile barrier vs a 20m dash or backward jump.

 

Can I ask you a question? Mercs will have access to the same utility for Rocket Out only theirs will have more uptime (20 second cooldown for 4 sec. v. 45 second cooldown for 6) . So why if you're trying to compare the two are you only mentioning it for Sorcerers?

 

New Utility: Smoke Screen! Rocket Out/Propulsion Round generates a Smoke Screen when used, keeping you from being leapt to or pulled and making you immune to interrupts and ability activation pushback for the next 4 seconds.

 

New Utility: Shifting Silhouette/Ethereal Entity! Using Phase Walk to return to its marked location grants Shifting Silhouette/Ethereal Entity, keeping you from being leapt to or pulled and making you immune to interrupts and ability activation pushback for the next 6 seconds.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Fordbird]

Can I ask you a question? Mercs will have access to the same utility for Rocket Out only theirs will have more uptime (20 second cooldown for 4 sec. v. 45 second cooldown for 6) . So why if you're trying to compare the two are you only mentioning it for Sorcerers?

 

Sorcerers phase walk is to a destination 60m away (out of combat range) to a destination of their choosing, and it will happen in the same time lapse as that of the assassin. The merc gets a 20m blind back thrust (still inside of leap/ranged class range) to a destination unknown. The reason I am comparing these 2 specifically is to show contrast.

[Benets]

Forgot to say that Merc are much toughter than sage, they can hold much more damage.

And the roll back grants immunity to control and less than half time cooldown, they can use much often.

 

And phase walk do not teleport wherever you want, it's a place you were and place the mark. You can place a mark and then this mark location can't be good in the future, can be near combat or too far from action.

 

Phase walk is better than nothing, but's ridiculous what bioware do with sages. Almost everybody getting new skill and sage get a recicled one. This is ********. This is the work of stupid designers.

 

Not enough they gave shadows stride. So they can get easier in battle. Stupid devs.

 

It's pretty simple that any retard knows, sage need defensive cooldown, real one. One like other classes that already have defense, have. A defensive cooldown that you can act and not be a stupid statue waiting it ends. A bad copy from wow paladin bubble.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Benets

[Master-Nala]

Sorcerers phase walk is to a destination 60m away (out of combat range) to a destination of their choosing, and it will happen in the same time lapse as that of the assassin. The merc gets a 20m blind back thrust (still inside of leap/ranged class range) to a destination unknown. The reason I am comparing these 2 specifically is to show contrast.

 

Yes, but why did you omit the immunity utility when talking about Mercs, but mentioned it for Sorcs? That's a bit disingenuous don't you think?

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

Forgot to say that Merc are much toughter than sage, they can hold much more damage.

And the roll back grants immunity to control and less than half time cooldown, they can use much often.

 

And phase walk do not teleport wherever you want, it's a place you were and place the mark. You can place a mark and then this mark location can't be good in the future, can be near combat or too far from action.

 

Phase walk is better than nothing, but's ridiculous what bioware do with sages. Almost everybody getting new skill and sage get a recicled one. This is ********. This is the work of stupid designers.

 

Not enough they gave shadows stride. So they can get easier in battle. Stupid devs.

 

It's pretty simple that any retard knows, sage need defensive cooldown, real one. One like other classes that already have defense, have. A defensive cooldown that you can act and not be a stupid statue waiting it ends. A bad copy from wow paladin bubble.

 

 

OR insane burst to melt ur opponent before he does it to you, oh right, there are pt's and vg's for that, and despite they are gaining only buffs to tactica, which is insane itself, nobody even mention it. Nobopdy think that beeing globalled by an unstoppable pt won'ìt be funny. Can't wait to see al re rollers sage, on my vanguard will be interesting, with leap + 40 meters grappke + troll the line +15 meters full rotation + cell burst buffed with dots

[Fordbird]

Yes, but why did you omit the immunity utility when talking about Mercs, but mentioned it for Sorcs? That's a bit disingenuous don't you think?

 

No. I omitted it because I don't know how long the back thrust animation will last. If it is 1 GCD then Mercs will effectively have 2.5 seconds of immunity when they hit the ground. If 2 GCD's are used then they will have 1 second, etc....basically I don't know how long the animation will take to play out. In either scenario however, my sticking point is more about a focus release given to a class that doesn't need another one to a predetermined location, while other classes that severely needed a focus release have a blind dash/back thrust for 20 meters. This will only give those classes immunity for a short period, and will do nothing to enhance survivability in wz beyond the animation.

[TUXs]

So far I have found the changes to the classes to be unbalanced and downright foolish.

 

Its like some drunk person from the mountain folk was asked to think up stuff after playing the game one time and they just did it.

 

I mean there is now a class that has 35m attacks a speed boost, a bubble, a super immunity bubble that you can move in, a 60m teleport that makes you immune to everything and still crazy burst.

 

mercs can jump back 20m before they die

 

With all this new mobility, have they changed any of the PVP maps, no.

Well said...the changes coming are so incredibly foolish that it's almost gotta be intentional to undermine PvP.

[Icestar]

Phase walk, very interesting. It will be cool to try out with my other characters.

[Raansu]

Can I ask you a question? Mercs will have access to the same utility for Rocket Out only theirs will have more uptime (20 second cooldown for 4 sec. v. 45 second cooldown for 6) . So why if you're trying to compare the two are you only mentioning it for Sorcerers?

 

Because mercs don't essentially get 3 CC breakers (phase walk may as well be if it functions like sins and lets you use it stunned. 60m you'll be out of the stun and healing before anyone even gets close to you. They also don't have a god bubble with asinine buffs on top of that. You know what crossed the line for sorcs? Adding bastion to barrier and tacking on another utility that can essentially heal them completely. People complain about juggs 3 lives but you can still burst right through their abilities.

 

Barriers utilities is what broke the line for sorcs. The additional stacked utilities just added insult to injury. Sorcs either need to become less mobile or bastion needs to go bye bye.

[soulseekerr]

I'm liking the new assassin/shadow abilities but what about damage for DPS'ers?

 

I've always loved the feel of the assassin class, but last I checked they were considered non-viable as DPS. I don't see much improvement on that in any of these changes

[Aszklepios]

Maybe it's just me, but I think sorcerers/sages should get some ability what give some reason for their lightsaber. I feel it funny that they draw it, then just hold it without any reason. In fact, they are the worse ac in melee despite having the strongest melee weapon. I wouldn't mind if they take some of these movement buffs, and give us some melee ability instead (not something what hits around 15k, just something that gives that damned lightsaber some job).

[Faelandaea]

I could agree with that. But keep them ranged and give them some DPS ability with various saber throws. Thus they have a reason to use their saber (or sword in my case) yet still stay at range.

 

Now for my non-serious part of the response - give the healer their own force-version of Kolto injection. They throw the saber at their ally and the saber stabs their ally with heals XD. Sorry I had to toss that in after reading another post a few minutes ago LOL.

[DarkSaberMaster]

I say just finish it by giving them Force Cloak, Force Charge, Intercede, Undying Rage and always on mobile Entrench. Oh and Force Push for good measure. No need for any other classes when you can have one class do everything.

[Master-Nala]

Maybe it's just me, but I think sorcerers/sages should get some ability what give some reason for their lightsaber. I feel it funny that they draw it, then just hold it without any reason. In fact, they are the worse ac in melee despite having the strongest melee weapon. I wouldn't mind if they take some of these movement buffs, and give us some melee ability instead (not something what hits around 15k, just something that gives that damned lightsaber some job).

 

This is what I wanted as well. But I also don't think it would be bad if it was a heavy hitter like Ambush or Heatseekers. Why? As a melee attack it would have a built in negative, the Sorc/Sage would have to close to melee range to use it. It would be like my poor belated City of Heroes and their Blasters. They did great damage at range, but if you stepped up to them you could find yourself hit with some serious pain.

 

We even have two classes (Operatives and PTs) that have significant ranged and melee attacks. Why not one of the force users.

 

In any event, Phase Walk was just a terrible idea for this class. Unimaginative, overpowered in some instances, useless in others. Sigh...

Edited September 29, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Mahrdol]

Maybe it's just me, but I think sorcerers/sages should get some ability what give some reason for their lightsaber. I feel it funny that they draw it, then just hold it without any reason. In fact, they are the worse ac in melee despite having the strongest melee weapon. I wouldn't mind if they take some of these movement buffs, and give us some melee ability instead (not something what hits around 15k, just something that gives that damned lightsaber some job).

 

I have to agree all these 4.0 movement enhancements seem like a waste and over complicating the game.

 

How about an ability where you animate your lightsabre to attack. It would follow people around and essentially be a DOT

[Zoom_VI]

OR insane burst to melt ur opponent before he does it to you, oh right, there are pt's and vg's for that, and despite they are gaining only buffs to tactica, which is insane itself, nobody even mention it. Nobopdy think that beeing globalled by an unstoppable pt won'ìt be funny.

 

Tactics is getting nerfed. It's getting a 15 second increase on the CD of HTL. Gaining a leap does not equal the 15sec lost on HTL, especially since using Storm to close with a target is a DPS loss not to mention a increase in telegraph.

 

Jet Charge only has use if you are trying to move in the Z direction, but as of now Huttball and Queshball are the only maps in the game with any real amount of Z direction movement.

[Raansu]

I vote they remove all utilities from barrier and make it it so they can only receive heals during bastion and not during barrier. Bastion duration should also be shortened.

[vfreelancerv]

I'm liking the new assassin/shadow abilities but what about damage for DPS'ers?

 

I've always loved the feel of the assassin class, but last I checked they were considered non-viable as DPS. I don't see much improvement on that in any of these changes

 

I dont even have words for such a comment.. except maybe L2P.

[Master-Nala]

I vote they remove all utilities from barrier and make it it so they can only receive heals during bastion and not during barrier. Bastion duration should also be shortened.

 

See those options are inconsistent with the goal of making a balanced class. If you make it so people can't heal in Barrier through Corrupted Barrier, then there is no problem with them being healed externally. Just as its not problematic for Sentinels to be healed through Guarded by the Force. If you make it so that people can't be healed in Barrier, then there is no problem with Corrupted Barrier because otherwise Barrier is just delaying the inevitable.

 

However, given your other comments, I suspect that's your real goal. To make it so that Sorcerers really don't have a legitimate escape cooldown. You have a right to ask for it, but might as well be up front about your goal.

[Zoom_VI]

If you make it so that people can't be healed in Barrier, then there is no problem with Corrupted Barrier because otherwise Barrier is just delaying the inevitable.

 

Please stop, this is dead wrong. The only thing that putting a heal block on barrier would do is force Sorcs to use barrier proactively rather than reactively.

Or in other words sorcs would have to use it to block damage before it hits, rather than current where they just facetank everything and then barrier+H2F at 1% health.