4.0 The dumbification of SWTOR.

[Rafaman]

Dumbification? Lol. Making things easier doesn't make them dumb. Can't wait to see the thread complaining about how difficult the new Ops are once the faceroll over leveling is over.

 

Nah. Most of the changes are QoL. Mainstat was always static you just didn't know it. Gearing companions was more of an inconvenience than a skill. Upscaling, downscaling and bolster, they have been around for a while already you just didn't pay attention.

 

The net, net, people will complain about anything, but the game will be, essentially the same as it ever was.

[sentientomega]

The net, net, people will complain about anything, but the game will be, essentially the same as it ever was.

 

Even better, even; I always thought us having to spoon-feed our companions gear was a bad idea, as if they're incapable of looking after themselves. I know Kaliyo would feel downright insulted at that suggestion, for one.

[Transcendent]

If you cant provide a better way to achieve this and your only argument is "all new ppl will be bads" then yes i'd prefer that you go play another game

 

Hey, I didn't say the boosted 60s would be bads While I agree somewhat that it'll take time for them to learn their class and roles, the game is at a stage where there are now plenty of viable guides to assist new players with this aspect.

 

I'm also guessing that "streamlined" levelling will also do something to help players ease into their respective roles. By removing the gearing companions, and simplifying some of the stats, it'll allow new players to focus on learning their class a little more and how their abilities work and when to use them. I don't see much wrong with that.

 

I would however voice a concern that it's a very tricky path to go down, at which point does it stop? What's next? Every level 1 character having all of their abilities given to them from the offset? There is such a thing as making the game too easy, and the less time invested in a character kind of removes any attachment to it by sense of achievement, and the game in the longer run.

[KyaniteD]

Dumbification? Lol. Making things easier doesn't make them dumb. Can't wait to see the thread complaining about how difficult the new Ops are once the faceroll over leveling is over.

 

Nah. Most of the changes are QoL. Mainstat was always static you just didn't know it. Gearing companions was more of an inconvenience than a skill. Upscaling, downscaling and bolster, they have been around for a while already you just didn't pay attention.

 

The net, net, people will complain about anything, but the game will be, essentially the same as it ever was.

 

Eventually, anything that makes the game more than an interactive graphic novel will be an inconvenience.

 

I don't like the simplification, but I guess it's what the market calls for.

[sentientomega]

Why not?

 

Were it up to me, tying companion stats to mirror our own, giving them any of the trinity roles to perform, and simplifying stats would've been done from the very beginning. I, for one, am happy that BW is moving in such a direction.

Edited September 25, 2015 by sentientomega

[Laurreth]

I'm scared by coming changes and don't like it at all!

 

Nope.

 

That's all.

[jedip_enguin]

Complains game is being dumbed-down. Uses 'dumbification' like its an actual word in post title

 

[Liquor]

Does anyone agree with this? with all the rumors about it feels like they are dumbing the game down so that toddlers can even play it.

 

#1 Stats Crush

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

#3 Letting people buy 60's

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

#5 downscaling-upscaling

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

 

The DUMBIFICATION OF SWTOR

 

Agree, removing stats will force a cookie cutter game into a bigger cookie. Everyone will be the same, yet still ***** about classes being over powered

 

SOE dumbed down a game, twice. Anyone remember what happened?? It was the biggest mistake they have ever made and admitted to it years later.

 

Companions gear, if you have a problem gearing out companions now, just exit the game and delete your SWTOR account. This game isn't for you. #GameIsHard

 

Buying level 60's - lets copy wow more because it works before. Just more newbies at the top level tier for us to kill in a WZ. If you don't have your alts to 60 by now, #GameIsHard with x12 Story XP

 

SKILL TREES, WHAT SKILL TREES???? There's no skill in SWTOR

 

Remember when it was saying something when you could solo a hard mode flashpoint? Now it's just dumb with God Bot and solo-bolster, none of that was needed

 

Bolster? LoL. Why is this even a thing? I can't spend the time, crew skills, and credits to gear out. Oh thank you bolster. I can ride this level 21 gear wagon all game to max level.

 

Thanks BW for taking a challenging game and turning it into a liberal soup kitchen. Free handouts and achievements with no effort by the players part.

 

If you recall Combat Upgrade, New Game Enhancement, Next Game Entitlement, or Age of Conan's "upgrade" where they changed how combat functioned, removing keystrokes so 10 year olds to run raids. Did these upgrades change the game for the better? Did it inject more subscribers and in game buyers? Nope, it's killed off the core population. All that was left are entitled hippies crying over every aspect of the game yet doing nothing productive to improve their own situation. 4.0 will be the return to the Star Wars soup kitchen.

 

Everyone that attacked the OP on this thread voted for Change and Hope that never came...

Edited September 25, 2015 by Liquor

[Aries_cz]

Why not?

 

Were it up to me, tying companion stats to mirror our own, giving them any of the trinity roles to perform, and simplifying stats would've been done from the very beginning. I, for one, am happy that BW is moving in such a direction.

 

Yeah, I think that if companion stats were derived from whatever gear player has equipped would be most efficient, and would probably deal with the "I want expertise on comps" issue. Player wears 204 gear, companion gets 204-ish stats, player wears 2018 expertise gear, companion gets 1980-ish expertise (or whatever the expertise max is for comps).

[Jedi_riches]

 

Companions gear, if you have a problem gearing out companions now, just exit the game and delete your SWTOR account. This game isn't for you. #GameIsHard

 

I have never had a problem in gearing A companion, but trying to upgrade all companions in custom gear is not easy without access to crewskills who have farmed enough mats for that purpose. This way if I wished I could change which companion I use on every planet I land on without thinking I can't use x because they are still in their starter gear.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Jedi_riches

[sentientomega]

Yeah, I think that if companion stats were derived from whatever gear player has equipped would be most efficient, and would probably deal with the "I want expertise on comps" issue. Player wears 204 gear, companion gets 204-ish stats, player wears 2018 expertise gear, companion gets 1980-ish expertise (or whatever the expertise max is for comps).

 

Don't forget presence and influence and their effect on comp stats...

 

I have never had a problem in gearing A companion, but trying to upgrade all companions in custom gear is not easy without access to crewskills who have farmed enough mats for that purpose. This way if I wished I could change which companion every planet I land on without thinking I can't use x because they are still in their starter gear.

 

Precisely, it was annoying not being able to use one companion required for a Chapter 1 boss because I preferred to gear another comp over them. Make no mistake, tying comp stats to our chars', and enabling them to perform any role are some of the best steps to be taken.

[DomiSotto]

None of the things listed contributed to a difficulty factor of the game, as preparing an efficient character only takes a bit of research and a time investment behind the scenes for crafting or grinding. Even if the characters is not perfectly perfect in every min-max aspect, it is still perfectly playable, particularly in the context of companion-supported part of the game.

 

Where the game is difficult, and it was not in any way impacted, is in the player to character ability translation.

 

There are still 40+ keybinds a competent user needs to play a character, and with the new ability for every class, it only went up. The need for spatial awareness has also increased since all classes got a speed-increasing move, making the combat that much more mobile and all the face-rolling content being now upgraded to level, so you will not be ignoring the mechanics any more.

 

So, nope, 4.0 does not dumb SWTOR down, it makes it harder, in exchange for a bunch of QoL improvements for levelling.

Edited September 25, 2015 by DomiSotto

[thomaswaits]

so do you use every single item you can craft? I know I haven't used a i would say 75% of the items my max level crafters combined can make (4). so how is changing that dumbing it down?

 

and yes we need to help the 1 player who don't understand the difference between aim and cunning when they first start. To many times I have seen your attitude towards new players asking questions and what not drive new players away. But yea let's run to the forums and scream and stamp our feet and say change is dumbing the game down..

 

Wait, you need to step outside the box because you see crafting in an extremely limited capacity. I rarely use the items I craft (unless I'm leveling a new toon,) I sell them. And, trust me, if you can reverse engineer, say a great implant or earpiece, with the right stats, you can make a lot of credits, no matter the level. But it's not easy. It's a huge time and resource investment. But if you are (were) up to the challenge, the payback was well worth it. Not to mention it was fun! This whole process is being nuked. As far as variation in crafted items goes, I'm sorry, it's being dumbified. We'll all be making the same 2 or 3 variations of an item (as opposed to hundreds of variations in some cases,) and undercutting to the point it won't even be worth crafting items to sell. And, not to mention, it will be boring. I'm not unreasonable. If BW feels that crafting need a few minor tweeks I would be okay with that. But they are dumbing it down to such an extremity that a very fun and unique aspect of the game is going for good - Hiroshima style. I stand by my original statement. The game is going through the process of dumbification. And there are a lot of crafters in this game that are not happy at the moment. The Cartel Market already killed half of the crafting in the game and now the rest is off to the gallows in the name of transient players. R.I.P Swtor Crafting. R.I.P my kick *** aim/surge/crit/accuracy implant that I spent days and days perfecting.

 

P.S. If you feel like the people that don't understand the difference between aim and cunning need help, try explaining it to them. That's what I do. That's what veteran players are there for.

[SirUrza]

#1 Stats Crush

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

#3 Letting people buy 60's

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

#5 downscaling-upscaling

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

 

1) I think they're not crushing enough. I wouldn't have gotten rid of Main stat, I'm fine with main stat. I'd have gotten rid of Accuracy and Alacrity. Capping how much stat a class can use before the benefits flat line can be done at a class level, no need to tax the classes.

 

2) I've only ever geared a companion when I was forced to most of them are still in starter gear. So it doesn't bother me at all.

 

3) I'm for this, if I ever want to roll on a new server this might keep me playing there for more then a day or two. As it stands I have 3 characters I have to get to 60 (they're all 55+) and I just don't want to do it because I'm tired of SoR. I can't imagine rerolling one of my mains on a new server to 60.

 

4) The only thing I'm disappoint about is we didn't get another utility point.

 

5) How is that dumb? It now lets do content at the level it was designed for instead of steamrolling through something at 65.

 

6) Bolstering has been in both pvp and pve for awhile now. Nothing new.

Edited September 26, 2015 by SirUrza

[Liquor]

maybe ive been enjoying this game far too long.

 

guild left for anther MMO, so here i am alone and not really looking to get into another guild. so, i create toons for crew skills. make my own items and gear. companions are geared and im geared. every 8-10 levels i have purple mods, enhancements, armorings, augments, imps, ears and weapons/relics standing by. sweet legacy gear is a thing now!! bad ***, now all this aim junk i have can go to my aim companions on new toons. all this cunning gear can be reengineered since i only need 2 sets (at most) for every 8-10 lvls.

 

gearing for alts and companions just got a lot easier...

 

now fast forward to 4.0 and gear for comps and alts will get even dumber....no more will i need to fire up my crew skillers. i wont need to sell stuff either since comms will be enough to gear up quickly.

 

look at Anarchy Online, yes that old funcom game is still kicking and even had an engine upgrade. the amount of stats and tweak builds you have in that game is unreal. very complicated but a ton of fun creating a lvl 20 twink with lvl 100+ gear. no 2 players are the same due to each stat impacting the end build and whatever lvl you desire. you can stop XP gains and just sit at lvl 20 and pvp. or you can max out at 200 then grab your shadowlands lvls and your alien invasion lvls. armor, implants, buffs, stims made for a very challenging yet exciting game. when compared to SWG pre-cu and nge and swtor, AO is in a different class all its own. AO makes swtor look like a console game in terms of character customization. even your character could be a large as kephess or as small as a womprat...

 

with that in mind and how swg went down, i see swtor following the same path. its too hard to balance classes, lets simplify the gear and stats. everyone gets a speed buff because if 2 classes get it, players will complain instead of adapting. you took away my active acid blade and knockdown. made it easier to play concealment. almost too easy. its dumbed down. thus i still play as a healer. but that has gotten easier as well.

 

we want content, something to do, not hand us lvls, simplified gear and stats, let us spend hours creating and tweaking a build and test it to be nearly perfect. wheres that challenge going by removing stats, handing us a flashpoint by just running through the motions with a god bot doing the work, companions that can wear any gear, those 50k sorcs in the WZ that melt when you fart in their general direction.

 

*********** democrats ruin the game for those that want to work for their rewards and achivements

[SaerethDL]

maybe ive been enjoying this game far too long.

 

guild left for anther MMO, so here i am alone and not really looking to get into another guild. so, i create toons for crew skills. make my own items and gear. companions are geared and im geared. every 8-10 levels i have purple mods, enhancements, armorings, augments, imps, ears and weapons/relics standing by. sweet legacy gear is a thing now!! bad ***, now all this aim junk i have can go to my aim companions on new toons. all this cunning gear can be reengineered since i only need 2 sets (at most) for every 8-10 lvls.

 

gearing for alts and companions just got a lot easier...

 

now fast forward to 4.0 and gear for comps and alts will get even dumber....no more will i need to fire up my crew skillers. i wont need to sell stuff either since comms will be enough to gear up quickly.

 

look at Anarchy Online, yes that old funcom game is still kicking and even had an engine upgrade. the amount of stats and tweak builds you have in that game is unreal. very complicated but a ton of fun creating a lvl 20 twink with lvl 100+ gear. no 2 players are the same due to each stat impacting the end build and whatever lvl you desire. you can stop XP gains and just sit at lvl 20 and pvp. or you can max out at 200 then grab your shadowlands lvls and your alien invasion lvls. armor, implants, buffs, stims made for a very challenging yet exciting game. when compared to SWG pre-cu and nge and swtor, AO is in a different class all its own. AO makes swtor look like a console game in terms of character customization. even your character could be a large as kephess or as small as a womprat...

 

with that in mind and how swg went down, i see swtor following the same path. its too hard to balance classes, lets simplify the gear and stats. everyone gets a speed buff because if 2 classes get it, players will complain instead of adapting. you took away my active acid blade and knockdown. made it easier to play concealment. almost too easy. its dumbed down. thus i still play as a healer. but that has gotten easier as well.

 

we want content, something to do, not hand us lvls, simplified gear and stats, let us spend hours creating and tweaking a build and test it to be nearly perfect. wheres that challenge going by removing stats, handing us a flashpoint by just running through the motions with a god bot doing the work, companions that can wear any gear, those 50k sorcs in the WZ that melt when you fart in their general direction.

 

*********** democrats ruin the game for those that want to work for their rewards and achivements

 

bless you, i agree 100%, keep babyfying this game

[Rafaman]

Eventually, anything that makes the game more than an interactive graphic novel will be an inconvenience.

 

I don't like the simplification, but I guess it's what the market calls for.

 

Nah, I didn't mean to imply that I was for eliminating the mechanics of the game. But really the things being simplified have very little impact on the game overall.

 

And I'm a min max raider.

 

The tertiary stats are what I'm interested in not mainstat because it takes care of itself. Now, if we talk about what they are doing to Crit and Surge... that is a conversation worth having. This other stuff? Means nothing really.

[TravelersWay]

Does anyone agree with this? with all the rumors about it feels like they are dumbing the game down so that toddlers can even play it.

 

#1 Stats Crush

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

#3 Letting people buy 60's

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

#5 downscaling-upscaling

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

 

The DUMBIFICATION OF SWTOR

 

No sir. I disagree

[robertthebard]

Buying a LV60 is a stupid way for players and a bad move for BW/EA. You are suppose to be enjoying from LV1 to LV60, understanding the game lore/story/mechanic and enjoy the fruit of how SWTOR was build. Not buying a LV60 character straight into PVP or end-game raiding.

 

 

If buying a LV60 character was what you guys think "It's fine" then EA/BW might as well start to sell epic gears so you guys do not need to even grind for it. I feel this is like engaging a gold farmer to help you LVL or buying a account from them.

 

A good read: http://www.engadget.com/2013/11/19/the-soapbox-instant-high-level-characters-are-a-terrible-horri/

 

"This addresses a serious issue with the easiest and laziest possible solution."

"The studio is doing it for its pocketbooks, not for the community."

'With it, studios are essentially saying, "Our old content isn't worth playing."

"Instant high-level characters kill long-term interest."

 

Die-hard swtor fans does not know that they are killing this game by supporting this stupid "Buying a LV60 Character"

 

Someone call Blizzard, this is why WoW is dying....

 

 

/hide

[sentientomega]

Someone should tell Kary that you don't HAVE to buy a lvl 60...

 

And if you want all the 1-60 content, especially dailies and titles available, you need to start at 1.

Edited September 26, 2015 by sentientomega

[branmakmuffin]

let us spend hours creating and tweaking a build and test it to be nearly perfect.

Earlier in your post you went on about how Anarchy Online is still around and allows for endless character customization and tweaking. if this is what "we" want, why aren't "we" playing Anarchy Online instead of TOR?

[KyaniteD]

Nah, I didn't mean to imply that I was for eliminating the mechanics of the game. But really the things being simplified have very little impact on the game overall.

 

And I'm a min max raider.

 

The tertiary stats are what I'm interested in not mainstat because it takes care of itself. Now, if we talk about what they are doing to Crit and Surge... that is a conversation worth having. This other stuff? Means nothing really.

 

It means nothing to you. Of course only those things mean something to you that affect the aspect of the game you're focusing on.

 

 

 

I think what we see here and there is just the tip of the iceberg. The tertiary stat issue you mention is just one side of the same cube. The cube's name is simplification. One of its other sides is companion gearing (no thinking, no deciding, no working for gear, no bad/wrong decisions, god beware I have to go back and gear my healer because the dps comp doesn't cut it). Or main stat unification. Mains stat division was a crutch to create gear diversity and diversity of crafting schematics, unifying it simplifies gearing choice, but it's bad for crafting because there is no way to compensate for that, short of making crafters craft crafting materials/components or tokens (aug slots, prefabs), which is also just a crutch but a far worse one. It doesn't make a huge difference for gearing, but it makes a huge difference for crafting.

 

Another side of the simplification cube is the phasing out of armor weight. Most of the gear is already adaptive and new crafted gear is adaptive, too. Next logical step would be removal of armor proficiency altogether, because it really was just a crutch to create diversity. When people call for balance for DPS classes, they only look at the dps, so the dps classes having different armor proficiency unbalances them. Same for tanks and healers. The adaptive armor makes it easier for designers, and removal of armor proficiency would simplify it for players and for devs, it would be one aspect less that they have to consider and compensate for when designing defensive abilities and may thus reduce overall diversity of abilities.

 

It really is too bad that there is so little official information out there, and even the unofficial information is scarce. I'd like to see how what is reduced and taken away is being compensated for. I don't think it will be, which means a net simplification that I'm sure many players will appreciate and love, and a handful will mourn because they enjoy diversity, enjoy figuring things out, enjoy working toward for something, enjoy a lively, diverse, crafting-based economy, enjoy weighing options and making decisions, and all of that beyond mere endgame min-maxing. I realize they probably are a minority, at least those who are aware of what's going on, many will simply find the game outside the story turning bland without really thinking about it.

The possibility to make a bad decision and figuring out what a good decision is, not just in terms of gearing, is part of the fun (that you admit to, but restrict to only one aspect) and that in particular is increasingly taken out of the game resp. restricted to story and progression/ranked gearing. We're increasingly led on rails through the game and we stay on those rails because there's no reason or incentive to leave them, and yes, my personal doom-and-gloom-prospect is an online, interactive graphic novel with multiplayer end-novel feature. Which, like I said, I think many will love.

.

Edited September 26, 2015 by KyaniteD

[Fallensouls]

I dont understand why bioware just doesnt sell a 35x exp instead of a full lvl 60, so the players can at least level some to get used to the class mechanics and be a benefit to pvp or ops, or flashpoints, because if you just give some one a lvl 60 they will not be good to anyone, and I mean players who have never played the class they purchased a lvl 60.

And honestly I would pay for that especially for some of the more boring story lines. But I wont be buying any lvl 60 toons thats just plain dumb when it doesnt take long to lvl one.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Fallensouls

[kopijkee]

Does anyone agree with this? with all the rumors about it feels like they are dumbing the game down so that toddlers can even play it.

 

#1 Stats Crush

#2 Companions Auto Scaled, no gear

#3 Letting people buy 60's

#4 Skill Trees squished even further

#5 downscaling-upscaling

#6 Bolstering, why does gear even matter

 

The DUMBIFICATION OF SWTOR

 

They just "casualing" it completely

 

Probably , the goal is to attract more players with all this Epsiode 7 hype

Edited September 26, 2015 by kopijkee

[Belegnole]

Yes they are dumbing the game down.

 

No we cannot do anything about it.

 

Yes, it is an attempt to get more players.

 

No, not specifically console players.

 

I bet most of it we never notice while playing.

 

and last, yes it will lessen the game.

 

Fast Food for the win....