Game Update 4.0 Class Changes: Bounty Hunter + Trooper

[Yamiro]

Who thought having a tank with a gap closer AT LEVEL 61 is a good idea!?!?!?!

 

BioWare if you want to make irrational decisions like that then start with making every classes gap closers/mobility abilities at same level, I'm sure people will love that!

[AlrikFassbauer]

So then.

 

Essentially Merc / Mando has been utterly screwed mobility wise for what, at least all of 3.0. You're giving all the classes more gap closers and more slows / roots (not to mention the stuns...), you give us the one ability we've needed since prior to 2.0 to make the class really viable in PvP....

 

....and in return you completely decide to increase the CD by 50% (W.T.F.!) the one vestige of mobility we had vs all of the slows and roots, and you give us.... something that launches us back a measly 20m (well within range of pretty much everything there is).

 

Can I just say this, aside from looking good, is there any point at all in playing Merc / Mando in 4.0 PvP with these changes? I'm not seeing any reason to, because we'll be in the exact same position we already are, which isn't a good one.

 

Commandos = Gunslingers 2.0 ? Without the cover ?

 

The bounty hunter version of the jump seems more cool then the trooper version.

 

No wonder.

Edited September 19, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Glower]

Jet Charge/Storm is now trainable by all Powertechs/Vanguards at level 61. Jet Speed/Blitz has been removed from the baseline version of this ability, and has been added as a utility choice instead.

 

Nerf to PT tanks mobility? /facepalm

 

Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line’s cooldown has been increased to 45 seconds (up from 30). With Jet Charge/Storm becoming baseline for Powertechs/Vanguards and the addition of Rocket Out/Propulsion Round for Mercenaries/Commandos, Bounty Hunters/Troopers will no longer rely so heavily on Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line for their mobility needs.

 

 

 

Nerf for mercs mobility? Ohhh...

double /facepalm

 

Lets wait for sorcs changes, im sure force speed is on 45sec cd now... Oh wait they are light armored and weak!

 

 

New Ability: Translocate/Transpose! .... This has a 1.5 second activation time and a 90 second cooldown.

Activation time and 90sec. Triple /facepalm!

 

 

New Ability: Rocket Out/Propulsion Round! Jet/Fire a specially designed propulsion round to launch yourself backward 20 meters, gaining immunity to controlling effects while jetting/launched. Cannot be used while immobilized or hindered. This ability has a 20 second cooldown.

 

Just

 

OMG superb changes. Mercs saved now!

Edited September 19, 2015 by Glower

[heavysoldier]

I support this wholeheartedly, repost from reddit

lol.

Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line’s cooldown has been increased to 45 seconds (up from 30). With Jet Charge/Storm becoming baseline for Powertechs/Vanguards and the addition of Rocket Out/Propulsion Round for Mercenaries/Commandos, Bounty Hunters/Troopers will no longer rely so heavily on Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line for their mobility needs.

 

Is this for real? Taking the class that has the worst baseline defensives in the game and then reducing its mobility by a LOT while also buffing the mobility of Inquisitors, Warriors and Operatives (most of which were already the most mobile classes in the game and directly were the biggest pain in the *** for Mercenaries and Powertechs in PvP) is such a *********** stupid idea. Yeah, sure, Mercenaries got Disengage (which is a cool ability and I was suggesting this idea for months and months) but how is it going to be useful when for example, an Operative can just *********** "Shadowstep" behind you the moment you've used it? Or failing that, popping Sneak to get the Ghost passive or rolling? Absolutely an idiotic idea to be quite honest, as they've not even buffed the defensive capabilities of the classes to counter this, which is just another sign that the developers don't listen to their community nor even play their own game.

Jet Charge/Storm is now trainable by all Powertechs/Vanguards at level 61. Jet Speed/Blitz has been removed from the baseline version of this ability, and has been added as a utility choice instead.

 

Okay, cool. Unexpected but was it really needed..? Not all your *********** melee DPS need to have a leap as a gap-closer. Hydraulics was fine was as a gap-closer for Powertechs and Vanguards given that they had the 45% speed buff given to them in 3.0. It just removes a key part of what I feel is the classes identity (and something that I quite enjoyed given that I played the class at Nightmare level before 3.0 and at HM afterwards). Also, removing one of the key abilities for a tank to use in any given situation until they have completed SoR content and started the ****ery that is KOTFE is a terrible idea. If it's baseline to all specifications of the class, why not make it obtainable within a relatively shorter time period at a low level (much like force charge/force leap for Warriors and Knights).

 

Going down the blog in chronological order so that would bring up this steaming pile of ****;

New Ability: Translocate/Transpose! Swap places with a group member and bestow a benign presence upon them for up to 6 seconds. Targets with a benign presence are ignored by most enemies, cannot be leapt to or pulled, and are immune to interrupts and ability activation pushback until they use an aggressive or healing ability. This has a 1.5 second activation time and a 90 second cooldown.

 

So, you're telling me that this ability would swap places with any group member you'd choose. And it would work (and work well) within the horrible game engine that the game currently uses? Nah, **** that. No chance. This ability would see more use trolling and causing trouble than the only potential benefit that I can see of tank-swapping, and even then, I am pretty sure that due to the way bosses within the game aren't designed to have this ability used (because rehashed content), it would be preferred to just tank-swap normally..? You'd gain better positioning and you'd be able to spend that global cooldown doing something more productive such as DPSing or communicating with a raid member compared to basically saying "**** you, I am moving you forcibly".

 

Looking at the DPS changes I can't see much of a huge difference and frankly I'd be okay with it if I were still playing somewhat seriously but there is a utility that literally made me say "what the actual ****".

New Utility: Explored Area/Surveyed Terrain! Stealth Scan increases the movement speed of all allies within the scan area, excluding yourself, by 50% for as long as they remain within it and for 6 seconds after it expires or they leave the area.

How is this a good idea, in anyway shape or form, how did they get this idea out of someone who works there? Somebody was paid to come up with this ****. I don't want to make it sound like I am just plainly hating on the Bioware developers, but are they thick?

Reasons as to why this utility is a bad idea;

A) They've buffed the **** out of the two stealth-classes in both mobility and damage.

They already DESTROY Bounty Hunters and Troopers due to their natural advantages of Stealth, highest mobility in game and insanely good defensive cooldowns that directly counter the abilities of the BH/Troopers. Stealth Scan was at least a step towards providing SOME defensive capability towards these two classes (Operative and Assassin if anyone was wondering) and now if it provides a speed boost, it would be used more often than not to gain said speed boost and not for the stealth detection. It's just a significant nerf to BH/Trooper.

B) It doesn't even buff your own movement speed.

"oh we've put the cooldown on a higher time for Hydraulics/HTL, what else can we do to **** them over? oh I know!!!1"

At the very least if this change goes live (which I imagine it will) at least make it affect yourself? We already have a movement speed buff for other members in your party and it was pretty unique to Marauders and Sentinels (or also Juggernauts/Guardians provided you took the right utilities).

C) Why in the **** is it only within the AoE?

How is this useful? Your party members have a 50% speed increase while inside an AoE. If you're going to give this utility a speed boost, at least make it to all friendly targets within 30 metres for example.

I can already see it now. All of the Mercs and Powertechs, sitting just outside their spawn in Civil War, just after leaping off the edge. Spamming Stealth Scan and like a bunch of headless chickens, running around in circles typing "gotta go fast"? because the only way they're going to be competitive in PvP is with eachother, seeing how fast they can run in a circle while the Operatives and Assassins are sitting in stealth and /laughing.

[Faelandaea]

Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line - not important so these changes will not effect anyone. I never used these skills and my character does just fine.

 

I did facepalm at the level 61 requirement for the jump though. Interesting. My characters are 60 already, so it isn;t too big a deal to me, but I am certain a LOT of people who do not have high level tanks are going to be nailed hard by that one.

[Enico]

I have loved playing my BH since launch and my biggest gripe with the class was the lack of Jet Pack options for each spec, given its iconicness. So all PT's getting jet charge and mercs finally getting the often suggested jet disengage is a great change. The CD increase on HO is annoying but will have see how it plays out. However, as already mentioned numerous times within this thread is the fact that jet charge will be a 61 skill , this is a totally absurd change. I remember when first leveling my PT and trying to tank FP's like mandalorian raiders without a charge was very frustrating, and the thought of leveling to 61 without it will be excruciating! Another bad change is removing the jet speed bonus, it may be too OP for the DPS having this built in, but for a tank this has become an essential bonus.

 

Keep jet charge at level 10 with translocate at 61 for shield spec, and give jet charge to the other two specs at 61. But they need to figure out a way to give shield spec their jet speed bonus.

 

However, i'm not a fan of translocate atm. It just feels out of place lore wise to have a teleport ability in a non force using class. Its basically combining pull and charge, so why not make it a grapple an ally then charge to their location? Dunno a teleport just doesnt seem right.

[Frenesi]

Of all the classes vanguard is THE LAST ONE who neede mobility buff. Are you guys insane? Harpoon, charge the line AND leap??????? For reals? Are we cosplaying Sonic now?

 

And you give tanks literaly THE most useless skill in game. Oh, wait, you can troll with it. Want to put that sniper in the face of the boss? Done. Want to force that marauder to walk back into the fight? Be my guest.

 

Really, do something with this mess. Make harpoon tank exclusive and buffed by discipline. Get rid of leap base idea and give charge the line baseline at 61. Nerf VG range into the ground. Becouse otherwise it will turn VG into the most inescapable thing ever. Oh, wait, it is already. Well, i guess sky is the limit.

[ToMyMa]

Of all the classes vanguard is THE LAST ONE who neede mobility buff. Are you guys insane? Harpoon, charge the line AND leap??????? For reals? Are we cosplaying Sonic now?

 

And you give tanks literaly THE most useless skill in game. Oh, wait, you can troll with it. Want to put that sniper in the face of the boss? Done. Want to force that marauder to walk back into the fight? Be my guest.

 

Really, do something with this mess. Make harpoon tank exclusive and buffed by discipline. Get rid of leap base idea and give charge the line baseline at 61. Nerf VG range into the ground. Becouse otherwise it will turn VG into the most inescapable thing ever. Oh, wait, it is already. Well, i guess sky is the limit.

 

The only thing pts have going for them is burst and mobility. Nerf the mobility and they'll be sitting ducks.

[ToMyMa]

Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line - not important so these changes will not effect anyone. I never used these skills and my character does just fine.

 

You're doing something wrong. Bioware needs to listen to the top 5% of players when it comes to changes, and you saying that just further proves it.

[heavysoldier]

Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line - not important so these changes will not effect anyone. I never used these skills and my character does just fine.

 

I take it you're a merc/commando. As PT/VG tank or dps I use this skill almost on cooldown. At a 1.8 times average per minute.

[ExeErdna]

The only thing pts have going for them is burst and mobility. Nerf the mobility and they'll be sitting ducks.

 

You're right. The perks of HO + overdrive help fight off all the slows and roots other classes have. People fail to realize BH have the worse defensive skills. Our shield is bunk, the CD is still too high and to perk to go with it isn't worth it. All the perks that work with grapple make the PT weak in another area. Finally our only real healing skill is so crappy most classes have learned to scout it and force us to waste it leaving us pretty much a scarecrow in "heavy" armor. We already lost great bursting from the last major update now mobility. Who cares that Pyros ( who are still a weak spec ) and AP's can leap in. People's problem seem to be with AP that's learned to burst will after the nerf and look they BUFFED the skill that most of the people that hate PT's complain about in pvp matches.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I have loved playing my BH since launch and my biggest gripe with the class was the lack of Jet Pack options for each spec, given its iconicness.

 

There do exist variants of the original Republic Clone Troper from the AOTC to ROTS era with backpacks as well.

The only question is, whether it is canon.

 

So, in short, "iconness" is with the Troopers as well.

But Bioware probably doesn't care, since they design the game mainly for the Empire faction.

There really isn't much "iconness with Smugglers & Trooper classes in SWTOR ... All "iconness" goes to the Empire fation ...

Edited September 19, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[Transcendent]

Commandos = Gunslingers 2.0 ? Without the cover ?

 

At this point in time, I think I'd rather play Sniper / Slinger than a Merc, the DCDs are slightly better. These changes place Merc / Mando right at the bottom of the pile, and then dig a hole and bury it even further. If anyone thought that 3.0 was a mess in ranked or regs for the class, wait until 4.0 hits and see how the class does.

 

I'm not supporting nonsensical changes made by the developers, I'm sick of seeing stupid changes without any regard for the overall meta between the classes or improving areas of classes that have struggled for the whole of 3.0 PvP (not just Mercs on this point). I'll never step foot into PvP with a Merc or Mando in 4.0, I'll play a completely different game for my PvP.

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

You're doing something wrong. Bioware needs to listen to the top 5% of players when it comes to changes, and you saying that just further proves it.

 

 

Ehm no, because the top 5% are all wintraders and syncers but you should know that. I agree they need to listen someone with a brain as minimum requirement

[ZeroPlus]

I was one of those that supported the idea that Storm/Jet Charge should be baseline for VGs/PTs. But not like this .

 

Having it become available to the DPS specs at level 61 is fine by me. BUT removing it from the Shield Specialist/Tech at level 10 is a HUGE mistake.

 

I'm hoping that this is just a small case of miscommunication and that what will actually happen is: (and depending on how you read the blog, it might even be the case... maybe )

1. All VGs/PTs get to train Storm/Jet Charge at 61 from their trainer. This base version does not have Blitz/Jet Speed attached to it.
   
2. Shield Specialists/Techs continue to receive Storm/Jet Charge as their first ability in the relevant Discipline tree. This discipline ability does not have Blitz/Jet Speed attached to it.
   
   • Note: At no point in the blog do they say that Storm/Jet Charge has been removed from the Shield Specialist/Tech discipline.
     
   • Note: The blog only mentions that Storm/Jet Charge is now no longer specific to the Shield Spec/Tech discipline and that all VGs/PTs get it at 61.
     
   • Note: The blog makes no mention of "Static/Flame Surge" which is part of the Shield Spec/Tech discipline and is acquired at level 40 and buffs Storm/Jet Storm. If Storm/Jet Charge were to be removed from the Shield Spec/Tech discipline and only become available at level 61, this talent would have to be changed/removed. There was *no* mention of that.
     

[*]The new "Transpose/Translocate" ability is available to Shield Specialists/Techs at level 61 (or later?).

• Note: There is no mention at any point in the blog of the level at which this new ability will become available. Reading the ability, it makes no sense for this to be a level 10 ability.
  

[*]Blitz/Jet Speed is now a Tier3 (Heroic) utility.

 

The above would make perfect sense. VG/PT tanks aren't neuteured and all VGs/PTs get a new *situational* ability at 61 (be they tanks or DPS): DPS will be able to leap into the fray if they want and Tanks will be able to rescue/swap places with a group member.

 

It will be a sad day for all VGs/PTs if this goes through the way it appears to be stated.

[Frenesi]

The only thing pts have going for them is burst and mobility. Nerf the mobility and they'll be sitting ducks.

 

I'm not talking about nerfing VG as is. But currently they are getting buff - buff that, IMO, really goes overboard. It requires some balancing. Heck, remember all the jet charge drama before 3.0? People with any sense left specifically mentioned how OP would it be to have both harpoon and leap. And since than we got charge the line - extremely pwoerful speed tool, already close to the OP border. And NOW we get leap on top. What exactly changed so much?

[ToMyMa]

I'm not talking about nerfing VG as is. But currently they are getting buff - buff that, IMO, really goes overboard. It requires some balancing. Heck, remember all the jet charge drama before 3.0? People with any sense left specifically mentioned how OP would it be to have both harpoon and leap. And since than we got charge the line - extremely pwoerful speed tool, already close to the OP border. And NOW we get leap on top. What exactly changed so much?

 

I don't see the need for a leap, either, since vanguard isn't a melee class per se, but nerfing their mobility into the ground WILL ruin the class.

[Aries_cz]

I don't see the need for a leap, either, since vanguard isn't a melee class per se, but nerfing their mobility into the ground WILL ruin the class.

 

Not per se, but it is not ranged class either. They are sort of in between full ranged and melee, along with Scoundrels. So they need gap closers, similar to those Scoundrels have. charge/Storm was supposed to be that, until BW made this stupid decision. For DPS, it might be fine, but for tanks, it is a major issue. Can you imagine playing Guardian without gap closers?

[Frenesi]

Not per se, but it is not ranged class either. They are sort of in between full ranged and melee, along with Scoundrels. So they need gap closers, similar to those Scoundrels have. charge/Storm was supposed to be that, until BW made this stupid decision. For DPS, it might be fine, but for tanks, it is a major issue. Can you imagine playing Guardian without gap closers?

 

Scoundrels are forced into melee by UH generation mechanic. Scrapper is actually a full-blown melee. DF is limited to 10 meters.

 

Since 9/10 times VG equals tactics, let's talk them. While it will be suboptimal, you can abandon melee range forever and still do pretty good damage. Actually, when scoundrels are forced to move in 4-10 range, VG can easily fluctuate in 10-30. So I don't think that comparison is valid and calls for another gap-closer, on top of 2 we have already.

[Mannam]

Regarding the Mercenaries Rocket out, with the Thrill of the Hunt utility. Can we activate Unload/Blazzing Bolts while Rocketing Out? It will be awesome to do Jango Fett style moves, rockect backwards 20m while blasting a target. Or will get get the message cannot use while in the air?

 

With the new utilities for Powertechs and Mercenaries. I am looking foward to playing those classes again.

[MillionsKNives]

I'm not going to go into specifics because I think most people have covered why the majority of these changes are incredibly stupid. But one thing I want to point out is, what's the point in increasing the ways for classes like Mercs to get out of combat when you've just increased the gap closers for everyone else? They just cancel each other out and will lead to a cluster**** of people leaping and teleporting around PVP.

 

The amount of people up in arms over the Jet Rush/Storm no longer being tank spec is astounding. "How will I tank now while leveling?" The same way I tanked on my Shadow/Sin, by walking up and hitting them with my weapon. Christ.

 

Oh yeah, with that Force Speed that PT/Vanguards don't have.

Edited September 19, 2015 by MillionsKNives

[Cox_The_Beast]

Premise: I don't main either of these classes, but I play them pretty regularly on most specs. That said, even as a casual I can see a few flaws in this design choice.

Quotes in yellow, my comments below them. Note that that's all my personal view on the matter. Also, long post below.

 

Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line’s cooldown has been increased to 45 seconds (up from 30). With Jet Charge/Storm becoming baseline for Powertechs/Vanguards and the addition of Rocket Out/Propulsion Round for Mercenaries/Commandos, Bounty Hunters/Troopers will no longer rely so heavily on Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line for their mobility needs.

 

It could be a good idea, if the main purpose of this skill was being a gap closer... Which wasn't in the first place. Still not horribly bad though, there are ways to compensate for the increased CD.

The main reason to use this, however, was to avoid possibly disastrous KB and the consequent interrupt as Commando/Merc, or as a safety tool for mistaken position of either oneself or an ally as Vanguard/PT, and only if both grapple and charge were on CD. What the real matter with HtL/HO comes from is the huge amount of speed increase as PT.

 

Jet Charge/Storm is now trainable by all Powertechs/Vanguards at level 61. Jet Speed/Blitz has been removed from the baseline version of this ability, and has been added as a utility choice instead.

 

Having played both as DPS and as Tank, I never felt the need for this. Grapple was just fine for the random guy running to a Companion or an ally, when you're within range of the designated Tank.

Also, Tanking without the charge is going to be a pain... Sure, I understand there's another ability ready to take its place, but between the cast time, the random lag peaks this game seems to have for no reason - pretty much a game feat at this point, it's only fair I factor those too, right? - and the fact you'll be losing the range from the boss, risking to screw things over for everyone but you... Not a good idea to swap places with them. I'd keep charge at 10 and make the place-swapping-thing be 61.

 

New Ability: Translocate/Transpose! Swap places with a group member and bestow a benign presence upon them for up to 6 seconds. Targets with a benign presence are ignored by most enemies, cannot be leapt to or pulled, and are immune to interrupts and ability activation pushback until they use an aggressive or healing ability. This has a 1.5 second activation time and a 90 second cooldown.

 

Following from above, tbh this suits a DPS far more, save for the presence part... Ripping aggro? Tank should notice. If he doesn't Taunt, use this and swap places and aggro with him. Just reverse the way presence works, making it be on you, rather than the other guy, and have DPS get this instead of charge. Problem solved, maybe? Or at least reduced, I feel?

 

I will not enter every discipline's need as I don't really have the proper experience with them, even though I'm decent at them. However, regarding Utilities...

 

New Utility: Explored Area/Surveyed Terrain! Stealth Scan increases the movement speed of all allies within the scan area, excluding yourself, by 50% for as long as they remain within it and for 6 seconds after it expires or they leave the area.

 

Um... Speed boost on Stealth scan? How? Plus, tying to a specific area makes it useless, so... Not worth the effort, I feel.

 

New Utility: Jet Speed/Blitz! Activating Jet Charge/Storm grants Jet Speed/Blitz, increasing movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds. The duration of Jet

Speed/Blitz is refreshed if attacked while it is active.

 

Again, I don't see the point. Also, in the page you wrote this there's an extra dot which shouldn't be there. It's broken in three lines, while it shouldn't have the line break after Jet and before Speed/Blitz (underlined in the quote to make it easier to see).

 

New Ability: Rocket Out/Propulsion Round! Jet/Fire a specially designed propulsion round to launch yourself backward 20 meters, gaining immunity to controlling effects while jetting/launched. Cannot be used while immobilized or hindered. This ability has a 20 second cooldown.

 

Finally an Escape! What really puzzles me is the huge amount of teleport/charge/dash/whatever all classes are getting... What's the point of an escape if the enemy can just charge back at you?

 

New Utility: Supercharged Defense! Activating Supercharged Gas/Cell increases the Merc's/Commando's defense chance by 15% for 10 seconds (affects melee, ranged, Force, and tech attacks)

 

Um... While I could agree a bit of defence is good, given how the majority of attacks is Tech/Force and as such is not affected by it makes it a bit pointless, I feel.

 

New Utility: Smoke Screen! Rocket Out/Propulsion Round generates a Smoke Screen when used, keeping you from being leapt to or pulled and making you immune to interrupts and ability activation pushback for the next 4 seconds.

 

Hmmm... While I agree having the escape actually fulfill its role is good, was it really necessary to make half of it a Utility? This will make it hellish to decide what to do... Cast on the move or Shield? Or the escape? Either way, you're sacrificing one of your safety measures to make the other two work properly.

 

TL;DR: Not exactly excited tbh. Nor impressed. Hope the feedback will be of use.

[Transcendent]

what's the point in increasing the ways for classes like Mercs to get out of combat when you've just increased the gap closers for everyone else? They just cancel each other out and will lead to a cluster**** of people leaping and teleporting around PVP.

 

Well at least you've got good reason to switch to using operative / sin / sorc now. Having at least 3 viable classes for PvP is good.

[KilledByDeath]

Soooooo, my PT tank - who has had Jet Charge since level 30 - will forgot how to charge, lose the ability, and have to level up to relearn it come expansion time?

 

I don't understand...

[SweaterGuyTitus]

Why don't they just make Jet Charge a Stance conditional skill like everything else? For instance: When Ion gas is active Jet Speed gives a 30% speed bonus. This ability is refreshed whenever you are attacked and lasts blah blah blah.