Please make level scaling optional in KotFE

[LordTynell]

My fear, however, is that we will instead get this:

 

a. Scaling happens because you visit a planet, no way around it.

b. Scaling will work by putting a "stat ceiling" based on whatever planet you're on. Gear doesn't matter.

c. H4s will still require shlepping to and from the location.

This implantation would be terrible, IMO.

 

Time will tell.

 

This is what I have a bad feeling about. A clumsy implementation of a system no one was clamoring for.

[Leklor]

While I strongly dislike the idea of level scaling (Apart from the very poor storytelling it's what killed Guild Wars 2 for me), I can accept if the following things are offered:

-The option to deactivate content scaling, sacrificing the updated rewards in exchange for the ease of completion.

-The mobs on planets where we are downscaled continue to ignore us if we are high level enough (The challenge remains when we fight them but there is no need to stop every five meter because a group of morons is rushing me with their annoying aggro scream) and only initiate combat if we stand in the middle of them for the same ammount of time as now.

-A companion, at level 65, with a high enough level of presence and Influence rank 50 is strong enough to allow for H2 to be easily soloed and H4 to be soloed with the necessary amount of effort, strategy and focus.

 

If at least those three things are included, then I MIGHT (And I insist on might, I'm not promising anything) retract my negative feeling on the matter of level scaling.

If none of this is included, then I won't renew my sub when the time comes and, sadly, my time with SWTOR will come to an end. Curious as it may seem to some people here, I neither play SWTOR for the social aspect (My friends and I play other games together and don't get offended but I have no intention of befriending anyone in-game) nor do I play for the challenge. I play for fun, to relax and (at times) to waste a bit of time exploring a universe I love. Not to hear anyone yelling instructions to my face of group chat.

To me, level scaling is one of the worst thing ever invented. It negates the feeling of growing in power (Say what you will, I expect my Jedi Master to completely wreck a Sith Apprentice on Balmoraa and not struggle like a moron to down him.). It is, always was and always will be one of the worst feature an MMO can "offer" in my opinion.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Leklor

[sosolidshoe]

why? the way i understood it, if you are under the level you will get a buff to be AT level not like they are going to nerf you or make the flashpoint harder.

 

that and they are all getting a solo made anyway.

 

What, and you really think the solo-mode versions are going to get the cool cosmetic gear, mounts, & decorations that were the main point(other than DS/LS point farming) of rerunning outlevelled content? Of course not, they'll get nerfed level-scaled rewards and we'll be back to people who prefer solo or just relaxed casual play being forced into dealing with the snobbish & elitist elements of the raiding community if they want the good stuff - because you know, that's exactly what I'm looking for in my spare time; office politics and YA-fiction drama

[Max_Killjoy]

What, and you really think the solo-mode versions are going to get the cool cosmetic gear, mounts, & decorations that were the main point(other than DS/LS point farming) of rerunning outlevelled content? Of course not, they'll get nerfed level-scaled rewards and we'll be back to people who prefer solo or just relaxed casual play being forced into dealing with the snobbish & elitist elements of the raiding community if they want the good stuff - because you know, that's exactly what I'm looking for in my spare time; office politics and YA-fiction drama

 

^ THIS, x10.

[Jeweledleah]

It's to keep other paying customers from leaving. Namely, their attempt at keeping their pve group crowd. With Kotfe don't forget their doing a lot for solo and story driven players. They're thinking the solo and story players will still pay since they're being taken care of. The group minded people may take their money elsewhere.

 

 

group minded people would like some new content to chew on. rehashed content they already had acess to for 3 years? making it scale to lvl 65 is a diversion at best.

[fluxtwo]

The band-aid approach of force scaling everything to cover for a lack of real content is just that, a band-aid.

 

For a sudden shift in approach towards catering to solo players, these changes do anything but encourage that. A dark counsel member powerful enough to absorb and control force ghosts shouldn't need help clearing out some revanite fools hiding in a temple on Dromund Kaas. A simple stern look should vaporize them.

 

People solo flashpoints and heroic quests now because they want to see the story on their own terms. Apparently that is a thought crime because they aren't "Playing the game as intended." Another small MMO that you may have heard of took the direction of telling players they weren't playing the game the way they wanted. The result was them losing half their subs in less than a year. Can you afford to have half your subs vanish Bioware?

 

I payed for two accounts, and they will not be re-activated for this schizophrenic like approach to content. If you are recycling this much now, how are you going to manage when you hap-haphazardly push out another level increase? "Hey everyone, you get to grind 5 more levels and re-augment everything all over again to kill Karagga some more!"

[Faardor]

wait... did you think new system of scaling will give you higher level abilities?

 

I would hope so, otherwise either the content becomes

 

A: Too easy (due to having to tweak the bosses so easy that they're meant to be beaten with lvl 50 passives and abilities)

B: Too hard (due to lack of abilities, passives, people basically unable to do a proper rotation at lvl 50 for example)

 

And if Bioware just meant bolster I would think they would just put bolster.

[Jeweledleah]

I would hope so, otherwise either the content becomes

 

A: Too easy (due to having to tweak the bosses so easy that they're meant to be beaten with lvl 50 passives and abilities)

B: Too hard (due to lack of abilities, passives, people basically unable to do a proper rotation at lvl 50 for example)

 

And if Bioware just meant bolster I would think they would just put bolster.

 

umm... they will not give lvl 10 abilities of lvl 65 temporarily or otherwise. there is a reason why we have leveling and that reason is giving people opportunity to get used to their abilities gradually, instead of getting confused by given all that crap they have no idea how to use all at once. even "free" lvl 60 will have tutorial introductory chapters where abilities are given to you gradually instead of all at once.

 

so A is the option we are ending up with, with possible dash of B.

 

I'm still trying to figure out what made you think we are getting anything different from systems already in game just being expanded.

 

flashpoints/ops are being scaled up. that's why word scaled is being used. players? are being bolstered. and I believe they did use that word in there, somewhere

Edited September 17, 2015 by Jeweledleah

[Shwarzchild]

What, and you really think the solo-mode versions are going to get the cool cosmetic gear, mounts, & decorations that were the main point(other than DS/LS point farming) of rerunning outlevelled content? Of course not, they'll get nerfed level-scaled rewards and we'll be back to people who prefer solo or just relaxed casual play being forced into dealing with the snobbish & elitist elements of the raiding community if they want the good stuff - because you know, that's exactly what I'm looking for in my spare time; office politics and YA-fiction drama

 

I don't think we can pass judgement like you have already just yet, and I'm not going to get bated into responding to your "I hate all you dasterdly raiders" type attitude. But new decos could very well also drop from those new solo modes, or tokens would drop that you can spend on decos. Something like Ziost is what I'm picturing. Could work out so that the rewards at more in tune with the content.

[Rhyltran]

Some people have said in this thread it makes sense because "Your level is game mechanics based. What makes you better than an initiate is that you have experience as a dark council member.." Have any of you seen star wars? Not all Jedi/Sith are equal. A Jedi Master will crush a Padawan in seconds. Look what Sidious did to the Jedi Council. Most of them didn't last longer than a few seconds. How long do you think most Padawans would last against count Dooku? How long will initiates last? Star wars is full of masters one shotting lower ranked jedi/sith and the same for Darths.

 

A dark council member who takes longer than a few seconds against an initiate doesn't deserve to be a dark council member.

[Khevar]

I'm still trying to figure out what made you think we are getting anything different from systems already in game just being expanded.

I agree. The existing bolster system in place with KDY is likely to be the model for 4.0. And currently, new abilities aren't added to a bolstered player.

 

I believe (though I could be wrong) that lower level players get a stronger stat boost to make up for the lack of abilities. As in, a level 11 bolstered in KDY gets a higher primary damage stat than a level 45 in the same instance.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Khevar

[Faardor]

I'm still trying to figure out what made you think we are getting anything different from systems already in game just being expanded.

 

wording + the fact that there will be ops that lvls 50 to 65 can do together. This can be a good idea but if people arent getting abilities / passives they might need to complete a rotation properly it'll end up badly.

 

I believe (though I could be wrong) that lower level players get a stronger stat boost to make up for the lack of abilities. As in, a level 11 bolstered in KDY gets a higher primary damage stat than a level 45 in the same instance.

 

entirely mitigated by lack of rotation. Did plenty of KDY back in the day during 2xp and while slingers are strong, they're forced to do basic attacks and even pause during long lasting fights to not ruin their energy rotation. Its not the only class that suffers from that. You'll be spamming assault as a marauder for example.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Faardor

[Khevar]

wording + the fact that there will be ops that lvls 50 to 65 can do together. This can be a good idea but if people arent getting abilities / passives they might need to complete a rotation properly it'll end up badly.

A player that was bolstered, suddenly obtaining a whack-load of new abilities, would be expected to know and understand what they were? How to use them? In some sort of useful rotation / priority list?

 

Are you assuming that players would have already leveled that Advanced Class before?

 

I don't think you're following this thought to the end.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Khevar

[BaronV]

It's to keep other paying customers from leaving. Namely, their attempt at keeping their pve group crowd. With Kotfe don't forget their doing a lot for solo and story driven players. They're thinking the solo and story players will still pay since they're being taken care of. The group minded people may take their money elsewhere.

 

Now you are just 2nd guessing what you think are BWs intentions. If they truly cared about their pve crowd they would create new and engaging Ops & flashpoints. Not take away things players have currently earned and recycle old content.

 

Giving people more choices of pve content to do? Sure if the key word is choice. But if they are going to force everyone to be scaled to the flashpoint/planet all the time. Thats not choice. Thats just developer laziness and I believe many people won't bother doing that content. I know I won't. In fact I will just unsub after the KOTFE story (for the first time ever since the game launched)

[Jeweledleah]

wording + the fact that there will be ops that lvls 50 to 65 can do together. This can be a good idea but if people arent getting abilities / passives they might need to complete a rotation properly it'll end up badly.

 

 

 

entirely mitigated by lack of rotation. Did plenty of KDY back in the day during 2xp and while slingers are strong, they're forced to do basic attacks and even pause during long lasting fights to not ruin their energy rotation. Its not the only class that suffers from that. You'll be spamming assault as a marauder for example.

 

there are already ops lvl 50ties and bellow can do with lvl 65ves. they are called instanced event bosses. in fact - while gree has minimum lvl of 50, rak plague has minimum level of 25... and those lvl 25 players? can do storymode version of the boss. and I HAVE pugged with them before.

 

gree area in general should give you a good idea how the upcoming bolster would work, I'm thinking that was their testing of concept area.

 

and yes. lower levels get worse rotation. that's why bolster only works in storymodes. hardmodes can only be done at lvl cap.

 

and yes, expecting people who just zoned in for their first flashpoint or op... suddenly know how to use ALL of their abilities only to lose them all over again when they zone out is... a very odd illogical thought.

[LydMekk]

As now, going back to planets do get achieves etc. will not happen for me after 4.0.

The grind is heavy enough. Being on par with all enemies after taking the time to level to 60/65 and gearing up is feeling like a penalty. I have earned the right to mow down lowbie npcs after 4 yrs in here. Thats what i am paying for, to play the game the way I want to, noone else. Things have gotten so stale that chasing achievements is the only thing i have left.

 

And you in this thread who said the same elsewhere(!) stop saying its "their game". Without customers they have no game.

 

Either implement a toggle for each user of see your customer base dwindle.

[Jeweledleah]

I don't think we can pass judgement like you have already just yet, and I'm not going to get bated into responding to your "I hate all you dasterdly raiders" type attitude. But new decos could very well also drop from those new solo modes, or tokens would drop that you can spend on decos. Something like Ziost is what I'm picturing. Could work out so that the rewards at more in tune with the content.

 

if, and that's a big if right there - IF they drop? the droprate is going to be very similar to current storymode/solo rate.

 

aka so low as to be negligible.

 

why am I so sure?

 

becasue if they want people to actualy group? there need to be incentives for grouping. making solo flashpoints drop the same loot as group ones? will remove that incentive. why roll against three other people when you can just sleep through the solo mode and get the same rewards?

[Transcendent]

As now, going back to planets do get achieves etc. will not happen for me after 4.0.

 

I hadn't even thought of that aspect, if they did bring in planetary scaling

[LordTynell]

if, and that's a big if right there - IF they drop? the droprate is going to be very similar to current storymode/solo rate.

 

aka so low as to be negligible.

 

why am I so sure?

 

becasue if they want people to actualy group? there need to be incentives for grouping. making solo flashpoints drop the same loot as group ones? will remove that incentive. why roll against three other people when you can just sleep through the solo mode and get the same rewards?

 

You keep talking about Ops or FPs. I think we're talking about the planets autoscaling people down. You know, so the Kor Slugs can be a challenge to the Empire's Wrath, or what have you.

 

This isn't about drops in a FP.

[Jeweledleah]

You keep talking about Ops or FPs. I think we're talking about the planets autoscaling people down. You know, so the Kor Slugs can be a challenge to the Empire's Wrath, or what have you.

 

This isn't about drops in a FP.

 

its both though. originally scaling up was announced for flashpoints and op. the post is talking about possibility of also downscaling planetside, based on a pts leak that might not even be true. flashpoints and ops scaling up though? THAT's confirmed and if its mandatory? for a lot of us its as much of an issue as going with GW2 model of scaling down the level of the players to the area they are in.

[SaerethDL]

its if it was optional it wouldnt work and it wouldnt be fair.

[Quraswren]

its if it was optional it wouldnt work and it wouldnt be fair.

 

Of course a toggle would work and just how would it not be fair when everyone would get to choose if they wanted it or not? It doesn't get much more fair than that.

 

Turning my level 65 into a level 10 padawan just because he want back to tython to help a friend isn't fair.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Quraswren

[Rhyltran]

Of course a toggle would work and just how would it not be fair when everyone would get to choose if they wanted it or not? It doesn't get much more fair than that.

 

Turning my level 65 into a level 10 padawan just because he want back to tython to help a friend isn't fair.

 

What? You mean you don't think an initiate could fight an even battle with your Jedi Battlemaster?

[EnkiduNineEight]

I think it is an entitled attitude to have when you are soloing content intended for groups (those marked with group, h4, operations, group titled flashpoints) and then complaining that content is being rescaled so that the group aspect of it becomes viable again for group minded players. If there is a solo mode available then solo players can do that, go crazy, express as much opinion as they feel necessary. But, when they complain about group content becoming viable again for players who do group content I don't see how their opinion can come off as anything but "well I want to have my cake and eat it too" to a degree seeing as how that content isn't for specifically them. Because they found a work around i.e solo-ing by over leveling still doesn't mean that that group content shouldn't be improved for the players who want it to done via a group. If the solo player wants to continue to do that group content, they need to just step out of their comfort zone and play that content the way it was meant to be played originally. (Sorry I'm trying to type and think and all that without coffee. Harder and harder as the day goes on.)

 

Peoples concern is that when you _overlevel_ content there is no benefit to the scaling. First, there is;t already a vast reserve of players just itching to play the one piece of overleveled content you may want to go do. So you create a barrier for the player because they have to sit around twiddling their thumbs waiting for enough other people at level 65 to go run what used to be a level 17 flashpoint.

 

Next, no one is suggesting that having the scaling is bad in itself. It appears people are complaining that the scaling _removes_ the other options. I know there are a lot of occasions I would likely group for a random saled FP and enjoy doing it. There may be other times that I am trying to kill 15 minutes and it might be nice just to run through something quick and see if I can get that drop I have always wanted for aesthetic reasons and which has no other value at all since it is bind on pickup and scaled to a lower level already.

 

I don't think a single person in this thread is stating all group content should be simple and easy and soloable.

 

They're instead saying that they want to go back and run a level 27 flashpoint 'fur fun' and roflstomp it.

 

It does not diminish the group content at all. When they are level 27 they can do it level appropriate with a group. When they are level 65 they can queue for it as a scaled FP. They can play the 'solo mode' if they want, or, frankly, they should be able to do it like they have been doing it for the last three years of the game.

[Rhyltran]

Peoples concern is that when you _overlevel_ content there is no benefit to the scaling. First, there is;t already a vast reserve of players just itching to play the one piece of overleveled content you may want to go do. So you create a barrier for the player because they have to sit around twiddling their thumbs waiting for enough other people at level 65 to go run what used to be a level 17 flashpoint.

 

Next, no one is suggesting that having the scaling is bad in itself. It appears people are complaining that the scaling _removes_ the other options. I know there are a lot of occasions I would likely group for a random saled FP and enjoy doing it. There may be other times that I am trying to kill 15 minutes and it might be nice just to run through something quick and see if I can get that drop I have always wanted for aesthetic reasons and which has no other value at all since it is bind on pickup and scaled to a lower level already.

 

I don't think a single person in this thread is stating all group content should be simple and easy and soloable.

 

They're instead saying that they want to go back and run a level 27 flashpoint 'fur fun' and roflstomp it.

 

It does not diminish the group content at all. When they are level 27 they can do it level appropriate with a group. When they are level 65 they can queue for it as a scaled FP. They can play the 'solo mode' if they want, or, frankly, they should be able to do it like they have been doing it for the last three years of the game.

 

And even then not many are talking about the group content at all. The most complained about is PLANET scaling. Going back to Tython and getting de-leveled to say level 15.