Conquest Changes in Fallen Empire

[Psychopyro]

The ones complaining about this are most likely the ones who don't want to work for their win.

 

1. It's not a job.

2. Seem my explanation for Flashpoint Havok. Seriously unless you PvP or have all of your alts max level, you can forget about actually hitting objective now.

 

Also a note on Flashpoint Havok, your guild plans for OPs are now at the mercy of the daily GF for ops to get all the points you need without having to PvP

[BrianDavion]

When did running Flashpoints, Operations, or killing mobs out in the wilds, or opposite base guards become PvP? Do tell!

Last I checked out of like 15+ conquest objectives 4 at the most were true PvP! Then maybe 2 more if you count GSF. That is NOT majority PvP.

 

The ones complaining about this are most likely the ones who don't want to work for their win. They just want to craft because they can do that while sleeping, afk, running things they WANT to run instead of what is needed for crafting. *smh*

 

 

except none of these are repeatable. wuith this change the only god damned repeatable conquest content in the game is PVP. some of us think this is complete BS

[DawnAskham]

When did running Flashpoints, Operations, or killing mobs out in the wilds, or opposite base guards become PvP? Do tell!

Last I checked out of like 15+ conquest objectives 4 at the most were true PvP! Then maybe 2 more if you count GSF. That is NOT majority PvP.

 

The ones complaining about this are most likely the ones who don't want to work for their win. They just want to craft because they can do that while sleeping, afk, running things they WANT to run instead of what is needed for crafting. *smh*

 

When did running flashpoints, operations, or killing mobs out in the wild become repeatable activities?

 

Those PVE objectives are either once per legacy per week (named flashpoints, named operations, kill X on planet Y, kill WB) or are at best once per day / week per character (Group Finder content).

 

PVP however gets points for completing warzones, infinitely repeatable, and not locked to once per legacy.

 

The solution of course isn't to nerf PVP points or repeatablity, but rather to allow PVE activities to be repeatable as well.

 

Basically if someone wants to run ten Group Finder flashpoints in one day, they should get points each time just like the person running ten warzones.

Edited September 8, 2015 by DawnAskham

[VoKy]

except none of these are repeatable. wuith this change the only gosh darned repeatable conquest content in the game is PVP. some of us think this is complete BS

 

100% Agree

[TUXs]

When did running flashpoints, operations, or killing mobs out in the wild become repeatable activities?

 

Those PVE objectives are either once per legacy per week (named flashpoints, named operations, kill X on planet Y, kill WB) or are at best once per day / week per character (Group Finder content).

 

PVP however gets points for completing warzones, infinitely repeatable, and not locked to once per legacy.

 

The solution of course isn't to nerf PVP points or repeatablity, but rather to allow PVE activities to be repeatable as well.

 

Basically if someone wants to run ten Group Finder flashpoints in one day, they should get points each time just like the person running ten warzones.

Agreed. But it can't be level 20 FPs...that's where we ran into issues when Conquests was released. They need to be level cap repeatable Conquests imo...nothing lower.

[FerkWork]

Agreed. But it can't be level 20 FPs...that's where we ran into issues when Conquests was released. They need to be level cap repeatable Conquests imo...nothing lower.

 

Well since in FPs in KotFE you will be adjusted to the level of the FP, it will be great time to make them repeatable.

[Psychopyro]

Agreed. But it can't be level 20 FPs...that's where we ran into issues when Conquests was released. They need to be level cap repeatable Conquests imo...nothing lower.

 

Well assuming I understand how they are doing the FPs. Even the low level ones could be repeatable.

 

As I understand it, if you go into a low level FP, you will be scaled down to that level. Meaning if the FP is level 20, your level is gonna be knocked down to level 20. While you would still have the benefit of extra stats (alacrity, crit, etc) on gear vs the lower level stuff, stats overall would still be lowered.

 

The only thing they need to make sure of is the solo mode version of the FP does not grant points.

[DawnAskham]

Agreed. But it can't be level 20 FPs...that's where we ran into issues when Conquests was released. They need to be level cap repeatable Conquests imo...nothing lower.

 

Just tie the points to repeating flashpoints through Group Finder; with so many FPs getting changed to tactical with a very broad level band / bolster like KDY and all the HMs being 65 with 50-65 bolstered together, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

They should also change operations to award points per boss, repeatable on however many characters kill the boss, with more points for killing harder bosses, and remove the Group Finder objective that encourages exploiting last boss lock-outs for points.

 

And lastly, all objectives such as "Kill WB" or "Get 100 PVP Kills" or "Craft an Invasion Force" or "Defeat X Mobs on Planet Y" should all be once per character.

[DomiSotto]

Well, the crafting mats prices are going to collapse. Oh, well. It was too good to last.

[Psychopyro]

And lastly, all objectives such as "Kill WB" or "Get 100 PVP Kills" or "Craft an Invasion Force" or "Defeat X Mobs on Planet Y" should all be once per character.

 

I really wish they would change these, but I think because of they way they tied conquests into the same system they use for legacy, this will be impossible. I could be wrong, as they have never come strait out and said why these were not per character, I do suspect that this is the reason.

[AshlaBoga]

Two words.

 

 

Revenge, Revanites

[TUXs]

Well since in FPs in KotFE you will be adjusted to the level of the FP, it will be great time to make them repeatable.

I guess I didn't know that this was confirmed...good to know I just don't want level 20's in FPs with 65's who face zero challenge.

[Psychopyro]

Two words.

 

 

Revenge, Revanites

Never gonna happen... lol... They surely don't care about Rishi and Yavin.

[DawnAskham]

I really wish they would change these, but I think because of they way they tied conquests into the same system they use for legacy, this will be impossible. I could be wrong, as they have never come strait out and said why these were not per character, I do suspect that this is the reason.

 

That does appear to be the case, though they could add a "Conquest Terminal" with weekly missions for these types of objectives, and then each character could pick up and complete the mission once per week for points.

[ScarletBlaze]

When did running Flashpoints, Operations, or killing mobs out in the wilds, or opposite base guards become PvP? Do tell!

Last I checked out of like 15+ conquest objectives 4 at the most were true PvP! Then maybe 2 more if you count GSF. That is NOT majority PvP.

 

The ones complaining about this are most likely the ones who don't want to work for their win. They just want to craft because they can do that while sleeping, afk, running things they WANT to run instead of what is needed for crafting. *smh*

 

When did those become repeatable? Last time I did them we could only do them once, so the only ones that are repeatable are pvp.

[harryyoung]

I'm reading trough this topic, and I feel compelled to respond to the Idea that small guilds only are able to rank trough Crafting.

I had a guild with max. 10 Active Persons, not all of them participated in Conquest. I consider this to be a small guild. We did not do any crafting at all. However depending on the week we hat no trouble to occasionally rank in the Top 10. Instead of Crafting we, for example, went and did all the Heroics on Nar Shaddaa during the Recent Death Mark Rum, catching a total of 10500 Points per day for 7 heroics. We did them all 6 days on multiple Characters and ended up with roughly 850000 Points, barely missing the Top 5 that week.

 

So crafting has not been the only option for small guilds if they pull together. Neither is PvP. There is also PvE. And with Crafting bein reduced to what it will be, the playing field will be leveled for all. now everyone, including small guilds, can have a shot at getting Top 10. The options are there, they just have to be used.

[RandyL]

The solution of course isn't to nerf PVP points or repeatablity, but rather to allow PVE activities to be repeatable as well.

 

Yes. I also think crafting should be repeatable for certain conquest events such as Titans of Industry, up to a certain limit. As an example, make the crafting objective craft UP TO 25 war supplies for 250 points each.

 

But the problem here is we're discussing nuanced solutions that require coding work and thought. BW has demonstrated time and time again they like very simplistic solutions. They don't handle nuance well at all.

 

BW Logic:

Crafting at conquest launch = good

crafting now = bad

Repeatable FPs at conquest launch = good

Repeatable FPs now = bad

Slot machine that gives out too many rewards = bad

Slot machine gives out very little rewards = good

 

I could go on, but you get the point. They don't understand balance at all. I'd LOVE to be wrong and Eric to come on here and say "we're going to be completely re-working the conquest system based on your feedback." But that's probably never going to happen.

Edited September 8, 2015 by RandyL

[Psychopyro]

So crafting has not been the only option for small guilds if they pull together. Neither is PvP. There is also PvE. And with Crafting bein reduced to what it will be, the playing field will be leveled for all. now everyone, including small guilds, can have a shot at getting Top 10. The options are there, they just have to be used.

Only 2 events have massive repeatable heroics like that. Otherwise there is just not enough points on them unless you are on that planet.

 

Also, it's easy to place on weeks with 5 or more planets available. It's the weeks with 3 planets which is a real pain.

[DawnAskham]

I'm reading trough this topic, and I feel compelled to respond to the Idea that small guilds only are able to rank trough Crafting.

I had a guild with max. 10 Active Persons, not all of them participated in Conquest. I consider this to be a small guild. We did not do any crafting at all. However depending on the week we hat no trouble to occasionally rank in the Top 10. Instead of Crafting we, for example, went and did all the Heroics on Nar Shaddaa during the Recent Death Mark Rum, catching a total of 10500 Points per day for 7 heroics. We did them all 6 days on multiple Characters and ended up with roughly 850000 Points, barely missing the Top 5 that week.

 

So crafting has not been the only option for small guilds if they pull together. Neither is PvP. There is also PvE. And with Crafting bein reduced to what it will be, the playing field will be leveled for all. now everyone, including small guilds, can have a shot at getting Top 10. The options are there, they just have to be used.

 

When comparing guilds with equal effort per player, a large guild will ALWAYS beat a smaller guild, its simple math.

Edited September 8, 2015 by DawnAskham

[RandyL]

When comparing guilds with equal effort per player, a large guild will ALWAYS beat a smaller guild, its simple math.

 

The only way around this I think would be to have a guild size multiplier. The less people in the guild, the higher the multiplier for completing conquest objectives.

 

Example: If there are 10 characters in the guild you get a 50x conquest point multiplier.

 

That sounds too complicated for BW though.

Edited September 8, 2015 by RandyL

[well]

I'm reading trough this topic, and I feel compelled to respond to the Idea that small guilds only are able to rank trough Crafting.

I had a guild with max. 10 Active Persons, not all of them participated in Conquest. I consider this to be a small guild. We did not do any crafting at all. However depending on the week we hat no trouble to occasionally rank in the Top 10. Instead of Crafting we, for example, went and did all the Heroics on Nar Shaddaa during the Recent Death Mark Rum, catching a total of 10500 Points per day for 7 heroics. We did them all 6 days on multiple Characters and ended up with roughly 850000 Points, barely missing the Top 5 that week.

 

So crafting has not been the only option for small guilds if they pull together. Neither is PvP. There is also PvE. And with Crafting bein reduced to what it will be, the playing field will be leveled for all. now everyone, including small guilds, can have a shot at getting Top 10. The options are there, they just have to be used.

 

Balmorra Imp side was nice. The problem can be if they have a hi level Conquest area and you have a lot of lower level guildies. It leaves them out. Adding Bounty event would be good since 15 is high enough. I think Rakghoul event is in the 20s.

[Irish_Sedya]

Wow...that's a HUGE and FANTASTIC change Eric. That completely alters HOW Conquests will be won.

Lol'd, thanks for making my evening m8.

 

On the subject - the points are indeed too high, and these microcuts change nothing. But I understand why. BW still needs for people so spend as much time in-game as possible so I guess we'll have to go with that.

[AdrianDmitruk]

I'm reading trough this topic, and I feel compelled to respond to the Idea that small guilds only are able to rank trough Crafting.

I had a guild with max. 10 Active Persons, not all of them participated in Conquest. I consider this to be a small guild. We did not do any crafting at all. However depending on the week we hat no trouble to occasionally rank in the Top 10. Instead of Crafting we, for example, went and did all the Heroics on Nar Shaddaa during the Recent Death Mark Rum, catching a total of 10500 Points per day for 7 heroics. We did them all 6 days on multiple Characters and ended up with roughly 850000 Points, barely missing the Top 5 that week.

 

So crafting has not been the only option for small guilds if they pull together. Neither is PvP. There is also PvE. And with Crafting bein reduced to what it will be, the playing field will be leveled for all. now everyone, including small guilds, can have a shot at getting Top 10. The options are there, they just have to be used.

 

Just to be clear, I'm in a guild with about five active players.

 

You were only able to pull that off because you selected an event that has a lot of heroics that you can grind. Not every event does. Moreover, if your guild is participating in conquests as a method of expanding its guild ship (the rewards excluding encryptions are very lackluster unless you know specifically what to do with them), the cost of unlocking those expansions requires so many encryptions that your guild had better be able to place consistently, which you have admitted your guild cannot. You said yourself you placed in basically a one-off event that had enough grindable content to allow you to compete.

 

Now, also to be clear, my small guild with five active players places damn near every week, and sometimes we even pull off a double placement (i.e. both our Republic and Imperial faction guilds in the top 10). The only activities that we can consistently grind or repeat for points are PVP and crafting, and fortunately for us we enjoy PVP. As mentioned before, PVE has lockouts that are (usually) prohibitive of a small guild using PVE as a sole source of conquest points and actually having a reasonable expectation of placing in the top 10. Typically we as a small guild manage about 200k-300k points per faction through PVP, then about 24 hours before the conquest event ends, we will use crafting to fill in the difference so we can place.

 

Now, I understand that such methods result in a lot of butthurt guilds being knocked out of the top ten at 4:15 in the morning, 45 minutes before the event ends, when those points are logged in. But it also, believe it or not, requires timing and tactics as to when we craft (do it too early and other guilds can react, inflating the number of points we must generate). We as a small guild are going to do what we have to do to unlock our guildships. If we can't craft, we will have little choice but to infiltrate larger guilds and mooch off them for a critical mass of conquest, then meet our personal targets within the megaguild and send the encryptions back "home."

 

If you think that crafting spam is bad for the game, wow just wait until you see all that guild drama spill out in general chat on fleet, as the larger guilds root out conquest spies and start calling out "Don't accept Player X in your guild, he mooches for encryptions" in general chat on fleet. We already see the occasional "so and so stole from the guild bank!" whine thread, but forcing smaller guilds to merge and/or infiltrate into larger guilds can only encourage that writ large. This is good for the community how?

 

Under the presently proposed changes, PVP (including GSF) will be the only viable option for small guilds during the vast majority of conquest weeks, excepting the occasional week where PVE has so many objectives/heroics to grind, combined with enough invasion planets for everyone, to allow a small PVE guild such as yours to place. (And that certainly won't happen frequently enough for you to unlock your guildship expansions within any reasonable timeframe.) And even PVP is no pure salvation for smaller guilds, because nothing is stopping larger guilds from also PVPing and Q syncing to get double premades in warzones, etc. not to mention removing crafting cuts down on the number of alts that can reasonably be used per week.

 

What, pray tell, is Bioware going to replace crafting with as a reliable source of conquest activities for smaller guilds (especially smaller PVE guilds, since PVE by and large isn't repeatable for conquest)?

[Psychopyro]

The only way around this I think would be to have a guild size multiplier. The less people in the guild, the higher the multiplier for completing conquest objectives.

 

Example: If there are 10 characters in the guild you get a 50x conquest point multiplier.

 

That sounds too complicated for BW though.

 

The discussion around this though was gaming the system. What is the optimal number of members to get the best multiplier based on participation. Trust me, someone has already done the math...

[tmwfte]

I don't PVP (either warzones or GSF), I rarely run OPS or Flashpoints because of the odd hours I can actually get on to play, I regularly only was able to contribute to Conquest through crafting. Thanks for nerfing that, BioWare. Really appreciate it.

 

While you've lowered the personal conquest goal, you've ensured in one fell swoop that I'll not be able to reach it in Fallen Empire. Thanks for weighting an already imbalanced conquest to PvP even further towards PvP. Great job!