Game Update 4.0 Class Changes: Jedi Knight + Sith Warrior

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

And if performance in solo rated meant anything meaningful, there might be a point. But the game isn't designed around 4 Damage v 4 damage games which is ubiquitous in solo rated.

 

THIS

 

Glad someone understand that

[Costello]

 

For those of you that have mentioned the blitz / dash being a problem with moving past your target and getting out of melee range, it's not much different from the operative roll - you can roll past melee range. It's up to you to properly judge distances and only use it when it is beneficial to you. I don't view it as being a rotational ability, just a movement boost / gap closer (assuming that it can be used without a target). The AOE damage that comes with it is just a perk. It's probably going to be quite low damage anyway.

 

Some good points. I do just want to highlight this in that the operative and sniper have a better range than 4 meters. While some attacks are melee they have other attacks they can use to at 10m or 30m as well some healing if they have used it to escape. Its a little different when your only role is dps, your only real attacks are 4m and your resource builders are 4m and you really have to stay in range the entire time to be effective. Time off target costs resources etc. so to have a mirror skill of a class with so many other options doesn't necessary fit with a mdps class, even if it offers people a similar ability.

[Emperor-Norton]

And if performance in solo rated meant anything meaningful, there might be a point. But the game isn't designed around 4 Damage v 4 damage games which is ubiquitous in solo rated.

Except Juggs are also pretty meh in Ranked 4s for both Tanking and DPS. Same in PvE.

[Caulderone]

I can't tell you how disappointing this is. One of the main reasons for moving to Disciplines was to avoid having so many key powers come later and later in a character's career because of level cap increases. And what do you do? The very next time you do a level cap increase, you push everything back. Especially annoying is that everyone when they log in in 4.0 will have lost a utility choice that they had the day before.

 

If you don't want inflation, then just don't give a choice at 65. Or make it some weak passive that we get.

 

Sigh....

 

This pretty much sums up my reaction. Further delaying abilities just to fill slots post 65 is very annoying. I would rather get nothing new, or get some new passives that added something mundane (example: 1% movement speed).

[Savej]

And if performance in solo rated meant anything meaningful, there might be a point. But the game isn't designed around 4 Damage v 4 damage games which is ubiquitous in solo rated.

 

It's basically the only slightly objective stat that we have for this game to measure pvp performance. Group ranked is a different story - I think that's more about who's on your team and who you managed to get to q on the other side. There were not large pools of players doing that on most servers. But in group ranked, season 5, juggs were also #8 when I glanced at that.

[Barleron]

"New Active Ability: Mad Dash/Blade Blitz! Dash forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while dashing. Cannot be used while immobilized or hindered. Has a 45 second cooldown, and can be attained at level 61."

I agree with the majority of the folks in this thread who worry that a full 20 meter dash will not always get you back on target, because of the very real risk of overshooting your target. As others have suggested, the dash should be up to 20 meters, allowing you to quickly dash from your current position (point A) to any target (point B) within 20 meters while dealing damage to any other enemies between points A and B. I'm not a computer programmer... but seems like an easy fix.

 

"Now you get utility choice points at the following levels to prevent excessive power inflation with each expansion, and to ensure a choice was present at level 65.

 

Tier 1: 17, 25, 33 (up from 11, 19, 27)

Tier 2: 41, 49 (up from 35, 43)

Tier 3: 57, 65 (up from 51, 60)"

 

I agree with many others that this change is in the wrong direction, and unjustified. Your purpose is to avoid "excessive power inflation" ... shouldn't it be expected that with a new expansion offering an increased level cap that your character will grow in power? I don't see how excessive power is a real concern with having 7 utility points at level 60. I do not like the idea of having 7 utility points now, and then having 1 point ripped away October 27th, only to earn it back a week(+) later? This change is detrimental to the sense of character advancement and increasing your powers with an increased level cap. It should be abandoned. I will go so far as to say you should give us an additional utility point with this expansion, raising the total to 8, with the 8th point granted at level 65.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Barleron

[AchillesStark]

no minimimum range removal on saber throw, the one thing everyone in the game actually ASKED FOR I see

 

This^^^^^^

Its also might be removing the 0m throw from set bonuses so they've just royally screwed all juggs/guardians since our rotation depends on this. You have no good rotation without 0m saber throw

[jedip_enguin]

Underwhelming.

[Nightblazer]

Luckily these changes aren't final. Hopefully they'll change things around.

[Master-Nala]

Luckily these changes aren't final. Hopefully they'll change things around.

 

They're pretty final. I doubt major changes are forthcoming considering they got the green light to show these to the public.

[RAVM]

We don't even get to pick a new utility. What a joke. Better that than yet another active.

[Nightblazer]

They're pretty final. I doubt major changes are forthcoming considering they got the green light to show these to the public.

 

Well we'll see. I want more info on the new ability. Like how controllable or uncontrollable is it.

[Aerion]

Meh, nothing horrible, but also nothing to look forward to.

Mad Dash won't do much regarding kiting-susceptibility or movement related dps loss,

at least not nearly as much as making Ravage/Masterstrike mobile would have done,

come on BW we have been asking for it since release.

[Dalang]

From a pvp perspective, we'll have to wait and see what official changes other classes get before we can theorize as to how this will affect balance. Naturally, emphasizing knight/warrior mobility will shake things up.

.

 

Also of note, From a pvp perspective...

Utility Grant Levels

Now you get utility choice points at the following levels to prevent excessive power inflation with each expansion, and to ensure a choice was present at level 65.

•Tier 1: 17, 25, 33 (up from 11, 19, 27)

 

-Lowbie loses one Utility unless the lvl cap is raised to 35(haven't seen if it has been mentioned but think it is significant enough to consider).

[Jedi_riches]

I still don't get why the shien form comes so late in the tree?

[Transcendent]

Blade Dance.. why?

 

I just have an image of my Sentinel skipping along swinging his sabers now.

 

I can't tell you how disappointing this is. One of the main reasons for moving to Disciplines was to avoid having so many key powers come later and later in a character's career because of level cap increases. And what do you do? The very next time you do a level cap increase, you push everything back. Especially annoying is that everyone when they log in in 4.0 will have lost a utility choice that they had the day before.

 

If you don't want inflation, then just don't give a choice at 65. Or make it some weak passive that we get.

 

Sigh....

 

QFT. Says everything that needed to be said about the change.

[Raansu]

I still don't get why the shien form comes so late in the tree?

 

I asked the same thing....makes no sense.

[Snoishot]

FInally! the sith warrior sucks comperd to the sith inquisitor

[Lord_of_Mu]

I'm personally not very impressed with these changes. I'm still at a loss as to when I'd actually use mad dash, let alone where I'm going to put it on my bars.

 

My suggestion would be to make improvements to existing abilities and pack some of the mobility into one of the abilities.

 

Make changes to Saber throw so the min range is reduced, the max range is slightly increased and it bounces between three targets.

 

Make master strike channel while moving.

 

Give force sweep an additional frontal cone effect.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I don't find any fault with any of these changes and I look forward to dashing around on my Sentinel and Marauder for the lolz.

[VaeVictis]

I asked the same thing....makes no sense.

 

Why are there still active stances/cylinders/whatever in the game period? Just make them a passive buff that applies when you pick the Discipline.

 

One less thing for bads to worry about and eliminates issues like skank tanking.

[AdrianDmitruk]

"New Active Ability: Mad Dash/Blade Blitz! Dash forward 20 meters, dealing weapon damage to enemies in your path and increasing your defense chance by 100% while dashing. Cannot be used while immobilized or hindered. Has a 45 second cooldown, and can be attained at level 61."

I agree with the majority of the folks in this thread who worry that a full 20 meter dash will not always get you back on target, because of the very real risk of overshooting your target. As others have suggested, the dash should be up to 20 meters, allowing you to quickly dash from your current position (point A) to any target (point B) within 20 meters while dealing damage to any other enemies between points A and B. I'm not a computer programmer... but seems like an easy fix.

 

"Now you get utility choice points at the following levels to prevent excessive power inflation with each expansion, and to ensure a choice was present at level 65.

 

Tier 1: 17, 25, 33 (up from 11, 19, 27)

Tier 2: 41, 49 (up from 35, 43)

Tier 3: 57, 65 (up from 51, 60)"

 

I agree with many others that this change is in the wrong direction, and unjustified. Your purpose is to avoid "excessive power inflation" ... shouldn't it be expected that with a new expansion offering an increased level cap that your character will grow in power? I don't see how excessive power is a real concern with having 7 utility points at level 60. I do not like the idea of having 7 utility points now, and then having 1 point ripped away October 27th, only to earn it back a week(+) later? This change is detrimental to the sense of character advancement and increasing your powers with an increased level cap. It should be abandoned. I will go so far as to say you should give us an additional utility point with this expansion, raising the total to 8, with the 8th point granted at level 65.

 

As a PVP sorc healer I know full damn well why they want to keep the utility points at 7 instead of increasing the number of utilities to 8.

 

Currently my utility setup consists of: (skillful tier) Sap Strength, Empty Body, and (I think) Force Suffusion; (masterful tier) Emersion (force speed rootbreak) and bubblestun; (heroic tier) Force Mobility and the 30% DR while stunned.

 

I get most of my defenses through utilities as it is.

 

You want to know what I'd spend an eighth utility point on? Electric Bindings. So not only can I bubblestun a swarm of attackers, I can root them for 5s after the bubblestun wears off. Oh, and keep my Force speed root/slow immunities. That'd be crazy OP in the hands of a sorc who healed through the dark days of the h2f era (madness was the first sorc spec to get buffed; corruption suffered all the way up to 3.0 when it was finally fixed).

 

I imagine that similar situations exist for some, though not all, the other classes. Juggernauts for one do not derive most of their combat prowess from utilities; sorcs are much more dependent upon them.

 

I do agree that the idea of having utilities taken away from us absolutely sucks. I'd rather keep the 7th utility point at 60, and then get the new class ability at 65 instead of 61, than have to deselect a utility point. That way, we're earning something new, at the level cap not having to grind just to get back something that was taken away.

 

(Sidenote: I believe the above paragraph actually has a lot to do with why Bioware wanted to withhold details about combat changes for so long--they knew there was going to be a lot of backlash from players about losing utility points, that could have been avoided had they just decided to leave it at 60 and not grant a new utility instead.)

 

Then when 5.0 comes out Bioware could adjust the utility points so the 7th one comes at 65 instead of 60, etc, and still not have to give out new utilities. Granted there would be a few players with level 63 toons who would still lose the utility point but I imagine by 5.0 most characters would have either been leveled to cap, or left at the level they had been at during the last expansion.

Edited September 4, 2015 by AdrianDmitruk

[Pirana]

Blade Dance... lol

 

Whoever came up with that name change should be let go.

[Kyuuu]

so yah marauders get to keep there screw up uitlitly tree get 3 more ulitiies and still get to pick from get back our mobility you ripped from us or new utilities

 

Mind you all the good utilities that where almost all the mobility where all riped from carnage,it riped apart with 3.0 mobility wise. so we get to choose yet again get back what was ripped from us or use new utilities.

 

utilities ripped from carnage pre3.0 and after

Unbounds 30% speed bouns to predation

Expungin camouflage ( actual think this might of been basline)

Overwelm

15% movement speed ( that was part of defensive forms that was put i to phantom)

Inescapable 3 second root

Brooding

 

this was all part of carnage pre 3.0 mind you we all had 10m slow attack, in deadly throw instead keep that the removed and added the range to cripple slash, which was beyond stupid, they did that just to make utility points

 

Kindly bring back defensive forms make it PASSIVE for all and make all effect available to all, so we at lest have 1 extra point to play with.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Kyuuu

[Bugattiboy]

More changes no one asked for and none of the changes anyone asked for. I was a fool to think EA would fix Watchman and the Knight/Warrior utilities.

 

Business as usual for EA though. Least amount of effort for the most amount of profit.

 

Oh well. I'll play the story then be done with this abomination. I have been more than patient with their incompetence.

 

P.S. if you ever think this xpac will have good changes just remember that Sages/Sorcs are getting phase walk. No, I'm not kidding.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Bugattiboy