Just what are you hiding Bioware?

[Aries_cz]

You're getting new story.

Apart from them telling you the story beforehand, what exactly would you like to know that you don't already know?

 

Well, some info on the mechanics changes (Alliances, crafting, stats, etc) from official sources would be great. Info on loot in the "synced" group stuff would be nice.

 

Most of the stuff is not really important from what miners have shown, outside of Alliances, which are a snake nest of spoilers...

Edited September 2, 2015 by Aries_cz

[Kaelric]

the problem why ppl ask for more info it's because the few things the dev let ppl know are the main things of the expansion !

 

ppl are like that : ok cool more story, ok you remove stats to put mastery ok ok....oh you put old operation to 65, well..mhh ok if you want and change the mecanics of the companion's system..that's nice....

 

"where is the main feature ?"

 

So 2 things...or all of that is the main feature and this expansion is a joke because theres no mmo content or the dev are hiding "huge and cool news to come".

Edited September 2, 2015 by Kaelric

[RowanThursday]

[Force Persuade] You don't want to ask about companions, game mechanics or bug fixes. You want to buy anachronistically available Zakuul gear that fell off the back of the Cartel Market.

 

That's the devs' light side option. They must often be tempted to go with [shock] instead, though.

[DarthDymond]

Oh stop being so literal.

It's not a matter of being 'literal' - stuff like this:

It's simple. They are remaining as quiet as possible to cash in on the final months Subscriptions in September, then probably week commencing October 1 they will release all the stuff that will make some people cancel.

Every possible explanation for a wait of this long without information boils down to one single root cause: incompetence.

Maul, you know as well as I why they are maintaining their silence. These people cannot make an MMO, it is as simple as that

isn't a paraphrase of "I'd like to hear about how Crew Skills are going to work now".

Edited September 2, 2015 by DarthDymond

[TUXs]

It's not a matter of being 'literal' - stuff like this:

 

isn't a paraphrase of "I'd like to hear about how Crew Skills are going to work now".

Yeah, you're right...people were exaggerating to make a point on the Internet, how odd huh? Come on Dymond, you're smart enough to know what they mean isn't exactly how they're typing it...and both those guys you quoted, are good people too...you know they don't mean it quite so literally. Exaggerating is often used to make a point, not to be taken as literal fact.

[Jonfendm]

Yep.

 

I'm fine with people wanting information.

 

But some people prosecute it as a "right" or a "demand" on the faux premise that they "need" it. But none of this is unique to SWTOR... it's prolific in every gaming forum.. even those "transparent" ones. And as we have learned... some people will carry it to criminal extremes.

 

And last I checked.. one purpose of a gaming forum is to discuss, agree, AND disagree. Some people simply can't handle disagreement or discussion that does not support their pet cause.

 

At the end of the day... this is just another opportunity for some to bash Bioware for anything and everything. After all, look at the thread title and first post. It was designed to create a pile on against Bioware.

 

It is not prosecuted as a "right" or a "demand". It is simply, in almost all cases, holding the community team to their word. The players did not utter "more information as we get closer to gamescon." The players did not promise "more transparency".... the players did not say "you wanted more info, well today, the flood gates have opened"... followed by a solid week of silence. "Chat bubbles are slated for 1.3".... "Ranked PvP is set to begin in 1. (I forget which one this was.) "We will be doing times run contests of Ravagers, with great prizes to the best guilds." Followed by "Our new ops suck so bad, we cannot do this, sorry guys." "We are decreasing the rate at which the slot machine drops crafting materials." Followed by gutting every single drop rate, which in turn led to the scrapping of the planned line of slot decos. "The PvP team is as busy as ever" (although this was probably true, because they went from doing nothing to continuing to do nothing. "We are working on a pretty cool plan to reduce queue times, and you will be seeing more about that soon."

 

It is not based on "need" or a "right" or a "demand." Bioware set the tone and the expectation of delivery of information. In some cases, very specifically "in the weeks leading up to Gamescon". Players want what they were told they would get. Nobody held a gun to their heads and asked them to make those promises of information. Now the players are "demanding it as if it is their right"... that is utter nonsense, and deep down inside, you know it is.

[Jonfendm]

Nonsense.

 

He was referring to the "collective" we, in the context of the abhorrent death threats made against a Dev and his family after Bioware was being transparent about coming PvP changes, reasons, rationale, etc.

 

We've discussed the fallout from that to death.. so I'm not going to revisit it again other then to note that it only take a handful of extremists to ruin it for all of us.

 

One of the reasons I tend to push back on the more unreasonable and self-entitled demands in the forum is because when unchecked... it feeds on itself and the results do not encourage more communications from Bioware... but rather the opposite. "Players" are sometimes working at cross purposes to their wants though bad behavior IMO.

 

Literally maybe 2 or 3 people. And they get merged into a "collective WE" are you freaking joking me?

[DarthDymond]

Yeah, you're right...people were exaggerating to make a point on the Internet, how odd huh? Come on Dymond, you're smart enough to know what they mean isn't exactly how they're typing it...and both those guys you quoted, are good people too...you know they don't mean it quite so literally. Exaggerating is often used to make a point, not to be taken as literal fact.

Even on the hive of scum and villainy that is the internet, I prefer and enjoy honest discussions - and that entails trying to keep some measure of perspective in the conversation. Dialed up rhetoric and hyperbole seem to contribute to 'discussions' that end up with any posters who have the slightest legitimate critique of this game being labeled as "trolls" and those who disagree with those criticisms being dismissed as "BioDrones".

 

If someone says "Gawd, Vette is the most annoying character in the history of MMOs!" I'm not going to go and dig up some even more annoying NPC from Everquest just to take them to task for using the word "most". But tone and tenor matter to a conversation (again, even on the internet) and claiming that BW is being secretive and duplicitous about this expansion, when they've released info on the core aspects of it, isn't doing any favors to a discussion of whether they need to improve their communication and how (or about whether KotFE is looking like it will be a good expansion, for that matter).

Edited September 2, 2015 by DarthDymond

[VarKoE]

Is that how YOU feel? I've never said that.

 

Nope, not at all, just summarized your post. However, I usually like your posts and that seemed out of character. Probably should not have said anything, but really wanted to see how you responded.

 

Glad to know that is not really how you feel. Perhaps I read you post too literally. Cheers.

[DOHboy]

Literally maybe 2 or 3 people. And they get merged into a "collective WE" are you freaking joking me?

 

WE are all the community, WE are all active participants of that. WE must accept the consequences when some of US misbehave and take things too far. Yes it is a case of one or two bad apples ruin the batch. It happens quite often in society (or tries to in other cases).

 

if WE (the community) continue bad behavior (any bad behavior) WE (the community) must accept those consequences. It comes down to if you are not part of the solution, you are probably part of the problem.

 

the longer we tolerate and accept adverse behavior and those that don't try to change their own personal behaviors will in fact feed the problem and lead to less and more solution.

 

case in point, a very nice and well presented question was proposed, and was answered by the devs. and shortly there after we started to get complaints about what was being addressed and answered.

 

goes back to the "we demand answers" ; gets answers "we demand different answers, those weren't correct/good enough" damned if you do damned if you don't. Want responses to issues, but then complain when those responses are not what they wanted to hear.

[ScarletBlaze]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=833419

[idnewton]

A Dev post a week clarifying some questions on the mechanic changes would be cool.

 

I'm all for a surprised story. But surprise game changes is just weird

 

 

It's also weird as they have spoiled some story parts already lol

This is a very good post. Simple and to the point. Surprise story is great. Surprise game changes is "???"

 

 

Yeah, you're right...people were exaggerating to make a point on the Internet, how odd huh?

I actually wasn't exaggerating. I can't think of a single reason for the lack of communication which doesn't boil down to incompetence on the part of one employee or another. But it's very important to note that unless Musco and/or the rest of the community team is/are specifically lazy and not relaying details they've been given (which is very unlikely), they aren't actually to blame for any of the communication problems. They can only say what they've been given, and they have to say what they've been given. Failure on either side of that middle ground = getting fired, so there's pretty much no way the community team is responsible for this lack of communication.

 

I don't know if anyone's blaming them, I haven't seen anyone blame them, but I just want to throw it out there in case someone has. It's not their fault.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Now, it's important to recognize the recent posts of today, outlining the upcoming information and when we may start to see it. This is pretty good... it's not an exact schedule of what we'll see and when (we don't know the order of the classes or the exact dates of anything's release) but it's a big step up from the current communication we've been experiencing. Beggars can't be choosers -- it could always be more precise, more detailed, but I think in light of the information we've received today, the communication is now enough for me at least to be satisfied.

 

When a little kid catches a baseball for the first time, you don't judge him for not being a major-league player. You congratulate him for making progress. The same applies here. I would prefer more clarity than they've even provided as of today, but at this point, asking for further clarity crosses the line of entitlement, in my opinion.

 

They've improved communication through their posts today. That's good enough for me.

 

Have they read this thread? Have they seen all this feedback? Maybe, maybe not. I would say yes. This is not a small thread and this is not a peripheral topic. Whether they chose to respond directly into this thread really doesn't matter too much. What matters is that they saw the concerns raised, and addressed them, even though they may not have specifically posted in this thread or mentioned it by name.

 

 

Now, have they actually given us any more KotFE information? No, they have not. And yet, I feel satisfied. Why? They didn't tell us anything new about the expansion, after all. The reason I'm satisfied is now they've given us a timetable to look forward to, they've given us a plan to hold them to, and they've given us hope to cling to.

Edited September 2, 2015 by idnewton

[nosub]

Why can't the next expansion be a surprise? Why does every feel they need entitlement for Spoilers. My guess so you can clear the content in a 24 hour period?

[TUXs]

Nope, not at all, just summarized your post. However, I usually like your posts and that seemed out of character. Probably should not have said anything, but really wanted to see how you responded.

 

Glad to know that is not really how you feel. Perhaps I read you post too literally. Cheers.

No problem. Glad to know that's not what you meant I wasn't trying to be insulting, just stating that some people are oblivious, and happy to be that way (this is a video game after all), and some people just seek as much information as they can. Neither way is right or wrong.

[TUXs]

Why can't the next expansion be a surprise? Why does every feel they need entitlement for Spoilers. My guess so you can clear the content in a 24 hour period?

Because not everyone wants to be shocked by change on launch day. Why does it bother you that some people want more information? Leave it as a surprise if you like...you have that option, but knowledge seekers don't have any choice but to ask.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Why can't the next expansion be a surprise? Why does every feel they need entitlement for Spoilers. My guess so you can clear the content in a 24 hour period?

 

Exactly who is asking for spoilers?

 

Seems to me that all people want Is information regarding the specifics of any changes to things like crafting, combat, companions etc etc, nothing to do with any story whatsoever.

 

Some people want to know if this game is one they want to carry on subbing to come the expansion, call me an old cynic, but their lack of communication leads me to think they are quiet on purpose in the hope the potential leavers sub at least one more month.

Edited September 2, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen

[TUXs]

TI actually wasn't exaggerating. I can't think of a single reason for the lack of communication which doesn't boil down to incompetence on the part of one employee or another. But it's very important to note that unless Musco and/or the rest of the community team is/are specifically lazy and not relaying details they've been given (which is very unlikely), they aren't actually to blame for any of the communication problems. They can only say what they've been given, and they have to say what they've been given. Failure on either side of that middle ground = getting fired, so there's pretty much no way the community team is responsible for this lack of communication.

 

I don't know if anyone's blaming them, I haven't seen anyone blame them, but I just want to throw it out there in case someone has. It's not their fault.

That highlighted part is something I want everyone to see. I think people blame Eric for a lot of things that are out of his control. He's not really in charge over there

Edited September 2, 2015 by TUXs

[Krikos]

 

Some people want to know if this game is one they want to carry on subbing to come the expansion, call me an old cynic, but their lack of communication leads me to think they are quiet on purpose in the hope the potential leavers sub at least one more month.

 

Well put.

[ScarletBlaze]

Because not everyone wants to be shocked by change on launch day. Why does it bother you that some people want more information? Leave it as a surprise if you like...you have that option, but knowledge seekers don't have any choice but to ask.

 

That would depend on the information. Story information, companion information related to the story is a different story. You and I both know if it is made public whether or not I or someone wants the information to remain secret it will not , even if we do not come to the forums. People will spout it in general chat in the game just because they can and will do so.

 

Now if it is something entirely different that is no way related to the story then yes they should give us that information. I am particularly interested in how crafting is going to work, as I love to craft.

[Bakakiba]

Exactly who is asking for spoilers?

 

Seems to me that all people want Is information regarding the specifics of any changes to things like crafting, combat, companions etc etc, nothing to do with any story whatsoever.

 

Some people want to know if this game is one they want to carry on subbing to come the expansion, call me an old cynic, but their lack of communication leads me to think they are quiet on purpose in the hope the potential leavers sub at least one more month.

 

 

What's stopping them from unsubscribing now, and waiting until KotFE is launched? Surely it isn't because of the Niko gear.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

What's stopping them from unsubscribing now, and waiting until KotFE is launched? Surely it isn't because of the Niko gear.

 

I quite agree. That said, a sub does not end the moment you decide not to resub.

[TUXs]

That would depend on the information. Story information, companion information related to the story is a different story. You and I both know if it is made public whether or not I or someone wants the information to remain secret it will not , even if we do not come to the forums. People will spout it in general chat in the game just because they can and will do so.

 

Now if it is something entirely different that is no way related to the story then yes they should give us that information. I am particularly interested in how crafting is going to work, as I love to craft.

Not at all what I mean - I'm talking about stat changes (Mastery), companion affection changes, crafting changes, any skill changes and things like that...the 'mechanics' of things, nothing about story (minus what Eric is recapping). I don't want the story spoiled any more than you do...but I would like to know what I can expect different come Oct 20th.

[TUXs]

What's stopping them from unsubscribing now, and waiting until KotFE is launched? Surely it isn't because of the Niko gear.

You'd rather people quit than ask for more information? Is that what you're suggesting?

[Bakakiba]

You'd rather people quit than ask for more information? Is that what you're suggesting?

 

Unsubscribe != quit. It is also a more powerful message than venting on a forum.

[TUXs]

Unsubscribe != quit. It is also a more powerful message than venting on a forum.

Asking for more information isn't "venting", it's just asking for more information. So calm down...people will ask because some people are more curious than others.