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Just what are you hiding Bioware?


DarthMaulUK

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The problem is, everyone defending bioware uses the same irrelevant retort.

 

Something along the lines of, "no more spoilers (pertaining to story content)"... But thats not the information "most" people are asking for.

 

"Most" people want technical information. This type of information should have been already explained by bioware. Anything that drastically changes the current game state, needs to be passed onto the consumer earlier so that they can brace (or prepair) for the expansions arrival.

 

Since the OP used wow as an example, I will aswell. For Warlords of Draenor, announcements were made many months before release- mostly detailing stat trunication. This is a very major change in the game state- so they released that info onto the web.

 

This new SWToR expansion is bringing in many game state changes, which of course people will get paranoid about. People dont like change, history has proven this time and time again. They love advancement, but hate change. If the changes were for the better, you would think Bioware would vocalize that into and ride the Hype Train. But since they havent told us much, it would imply things are about to get real bad.

 

Things might be so bad in the new expansion, that they know they cant possibly charge people for it... That might be why its free to subscribers.

 

Actually, most people cry about knowing if their pixelated waifus will show up.

 

And there really is not that much changing that would need any sort of "preparation", even from what was extracted from the datamined files (which are, even by miner's own admission, unclear in some regards)

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So, this is basically all they have to tell us and it is coming (eventually, like dragons in Game of Thrones or the pizza for Butters and Scott Malkinson).

 

Pretty sure that is winter, not dragons. One is already very much present, and everybody just keeps talking about the other...

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I dont need more information to be excited really. I honestly dont want them to tell me more about the story.

 

My only dissapointment is that companion gear will be obsolete....seems like a strange decision after giving us an easy way to get them in 192's. Which is now rendered pointless...

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Ok basically...

 

What I didnt want to know, "story spoilers" which of course, is most of the info thats out there (sadly). You would think they would keep their story a secret...

 

What I do want to know: (and would have expected bioware to have said).

 

Most of this questions can be answered by not even having to look at the datamined info. Just use simple logic and some imagination... but thats too much to ask it seems. Here's what i think will happen:

 

3) if stats are being reworked or not (this is huge info that the player based needs to know. Is all my gear just worthless junk now?).

All current gear will also be changed. They will update all the stats that currently say Aim, Cunning, Willpower and Strenght to say Mastery...

 

4) crafting changes- i dont really care but, "if" stats are getting reworked, then this probably impacts crafters heavily.

Same as above. This will make alot of the old recipies duplicates of one another, they will probably remove those duplicates and consolidate the items for DPS, Healers and Tanks... It will definately have an impact on the market, i cannot tell if good or bad, but it will make it much easyer for crafters to learn "all the patterns". Companions no longer requiring gear may have a larger impact, but i cant tell for sure, tbh.

 

5) companion info (this has been adressed- but i wanted to put it on the list for documentation).

i dont know what else you want to know about companions.

 

1) Ops changes- since everything is being re-scaled, will all OPs (of the same difficulty) have the same reward?

i would have to make an educated guess and say that they will probably have alot of changes regarding Campaign gear and the old sets (Dread Forged, Dread Masters...) that are currently available... but most likely they will just do what they will do with crafting, leave the different sets and change Aim, Cunning, Willpower and Strenght to Mastery...

 

2) class balances- something vague like "hey, dont worry, we heard your cries for class balancing, and we are working on it". I dont even need to be told what these changes are- just an acknowledgement of class disparity would probably be enough.

There there, everything will be allright... there shall be balance in the force... maybe? I sure dont know how to respond to this...

 

Seriously, are most of you so devoid of imagination, that you need some concrete statements from the Devs to this changes?

Edited by Tallwyn
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With just over 1 month until Open beta arrives on October 20th, and hardly any information STILL released to those who actually pay and play your game - what exactly are you hiding?

 

Guild Wars 2 has an expansion due on Oct 23 and has released a ton of information on the changes to game play, classes, cities and other relevant parts of the game.

 

Blizzard has an expansion with no actual release date but it was simply information over load.

 

Bioware has an expansion with a release date of Oct 20th(open beta) and Oct 27th(full release) and the only information out there is you play as an 'Outlander', have 'story' and a new companion.

 

Not looking at the information datamined, doesn't it just seem so strange that the lack of information is creating more problems than actually solving? You should be singing and dancing about a new expansion, getting the community excited about new features but no - nada.

 

So what ARE you hiding? Whats the game changer that will really upset the community?

 

Maul, you know as well as I why they are maintaining their silence. These people cannot make an MMO, it is as simple as that, its only saving grace is the fact it is Star Wars and there is nothing else available.

 

It will be a miracle if this thing releases on time, not open beta, but release. I do not believe for one minute that they are on track.

 

Once it is released, it will be time to watch their fabled metrics over the following 3 months to see if people are actually playing the game as they seem to assume people will. If not, expect a giant twitching sphincter moment for them and U-turn as per launch.

 

BW think they know better than me where my gaming fun lies, I beg to differ.

Edited by ThorgrimLutgen
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Maul, you know as well as I why they are maintaining their silence. These people cannot make an MMO, it is as simple as that, its only saving grace is the fact it is Star Wars and there is nothing else available.

 

It will be a miracle if this thing releases on time, not open beta, but release. I do not believe for one minute that they are on track.

 

Once it is released, it will be time to watch their fabled metrics over the following 3 months to see if people are actually playing the game as they seem to assume people will. If not, expect a giant twitching sphincter moment for them and U-turn as per launch.

 

BW think they know better than me where my gaming fun lies, I beg to differ.

 

Ye, they dont know how to make an MMO, where clearly they have made one. You can keep calling it "not a real MMO" all day long, but i think it meets the criteria. You can say you dont like what the game offers, but so what? I dont like what the majority of other MMO's offer, but you wont find me on their forums, trying to explain myself poorly, why i dont like the game they made. :rak_03:

 

You have the right to be mad that you dont like the game you spent your money on, and they have the right to give out content you dont like. :rolleyes:

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Ye, they dont know how to make an MMO, where clearly they have made one. You can keep calling it "not a real MMO" all day long, but i think it meets the criteria. You can say you dont like what the game offers, but so what? I dont like what the majority of other MMO's offer, but you wont find me on their forums, trying to explain myself poorly, why i dont like the game they made. :rak_03:

 

You have the right to be mad that you dont like the game you spent your money on, and they have the right to give out content you dont like. :rolleyes:

 

Fortunately, for the game to prosper post expansion, they will have to revisit traditional MMO concepts, there is not a cat in hells chance of the story only business model actually working.

 

And yes, it will barely be an MMO after October, whether you think it meets the criteria is not relevant; to function as an MMO, a game needs various MMO concepts perpetually being developed, come October, there will be only one.

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Fortunately, for the game to prosper post expansion, they will have to revisit traditional MMO concepts, there is not a cat in hells chance of the story only business model actually working.

 

And yes, it will barely be an MMO after October, whether you think it meets the criteria is not relevant; to function as an MMO, a game needs various MMO concepts perpetually being developed, come October, there will be only one.

 

You are making a claim that they will not be developing any "MMO content" that you wish to engage in, which im assuming is PVP and PVE endgame? Dont bother to answer as it does not matter, what matters to me is your claim and where your source for this is comming from, as im quite sure its rectum derived.

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You are making a claim that they will not be developing any "MMO content" that you wish to engage in, which im assuming is PVP and PVE endgame? Dont bother to answer as it does not matter, what matters to me is your claim and where your source for this is comming from, as im quite sure its rectum derived.

 

Granted. Given the lack of any concrete information from BW, both sides of this argument have been nothing but opinion mixed with a little hope since the expansion was announced.

 

I have not ran any PVE content since Soa was considered the thing to beat.

 

I PVP, craft, and make credits.

Edited by ThorgrimLutgen
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I really dont get why anyone would ever use an argument like this: "they dont show us stuff, cause they know "we" will hate it". Its just stupid. Do you really belive that they would willingly do changes that they know in advance a large portion of their playerbase would hate and leave the game for?

 

Without turning this into an NGE/SWG debate but that's exactly where my concerns come from. And for those who lived through that phase in gaming history, will also understand this. If you weren't there (and this goes for anyone) you simply won't understand this point of view.

 

Its called Betrayal.

 

Dramatic?! Indeed. SOE/Lucasarts decided not to tell a single soul about the gaming changing alterations inbound to SWG, despite a brand new expansion arriving. And just DAYS after its release, NGE arrived. Now SWTOR is a little different as all the changes are actually coming in the expansion and we are being kept in the dark.

 

For many gamers, SWG was my first MMO and it was also my first experience with a gaming company that simply betrayed its playing community.

 

Now rumours have it that SWTOR is going to become a single player experience and given that there is actually no CONFIRMED new Operations, Flashpoints, Warzones etc and that you can only do 'story' as a single player, all points to this.

 

A few players may be happy to pay £9 a month for a 'Netflix' style content drop but I bet the majority won't be. With no firm dates for anything new outside of story, it does set alarm bells ringing.

 

Is this SWTORS NGE moment? Maybe for some, Are the massive changes to crafting a game changer for some? Maybe. How about the changes to combat? Combat is already a mess and again, from the information out there, its going to have zero balance going forward.

 

These all could be huge game changers for people who may/not decide if they should continue to subscribe.

 

Unfortunately, given Biowares trademark approach to burying their heads in the sand when it all gets too heated, they have let this run, rumours everywhere and nothing really confirmed. And with just over 1 month to until they launch an expansion, I would be concerned if nothing was cemented in stone by now as final.

Edited by DarthMaulUK
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Without turning this into an NGE/SWG debate but that's exactly where my concerns come from. And for those who lived through that phase in gaming history, will also understand this. If you weren't there (and this goes for anyone) you simply won't understand this point of view.

 

Its called Betrayal.

 

Dramatic?! Indeed. SOE/Lucasarts decided not to tell a single soul about the gaming changing alterations inbound to SWG, despite a brand new expansion arriving. And just DAYS after its release, NGE arrived. Now SWTOR is a little different as all the changes are actually coming in the expansion and we are being kept in the dark.

 

For many gamers, SWG was my first MMO and it was also my first experience with a gaming company that simply betrayed its playing community.

 

Now rumours have it that SWTOR is going to become a single player experience and given that there is actually no CONFIRMED new Operations, Flashpoints, Warzones etc and that you can only do 'story' as a single player, all points to this.

 

A few players may be happy to pay £9 a month for a 'Netflix' style content drop but I bet the majority won't be. With no firm dates for anything new outside of story, it does set alarm bells ringing.

 

Is this SWTORS NGE moment? Maybe for some, Are the massive changes to crafting a game changer for some? Maybe. How about the changes to combat? Combat is already a mess and again, from the information out there, its going to have zero balance going forward.

 

These all could be huge game changers for people who may/not decide if they should continue to subscribe.

 

Unfortunately, given Biowares trademark approach to burying their heads in the sand when it all gets too heated, they have let this run, rumours everywhere and nothing really confirmed. And with just over 1 month to until they launch an expansion, I would be concerned if nothing was cemented in stone by now as final.

 

geez dramatic much? its an expansion to the "story" 5 more levels 1 skill to each class... OPs/FPs are rebalanced to 65, and stats are merged into mastery and critical, and thats it. Theres no "game changing" mechanisms anywhere near NGE, where are people getting this crap from??

 

Even datamined stuff doesnt spew that nonsence you are claiming.

Edited by xxIncubixx
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It's a big expansion and lots of things are changing. They are telling us things without telling us TOO much. If they reveal it all, what's the point of that. You are just going to have to wait and see what they have in store for us :)

 

Also, I knew it. I just knew it and had a feeling SOMETHING in this thread was going to pull the old "swg nge game is finished, I'm worried" mention -_-

 

Also, if a video game worries people THAT much, I recommend they take a break and not let it control their mood.

Edited by Sarfux
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geez dramatic much? its an expansion to the "story" 5 more levels 1 skill to each class... OPs/FPs are rebalanced to 65, and stats are merged into mastery and critical, and thats it. Theres no "game changing" mechanisms anywhere near NGE, where are people getting this crap from??

 

Even datamined stuff doesnt spew that nonsence you are claiming.

 

Maybe if you actually read what I said. Its called an 'NGE MOMENT'. I haven't said anything about it actually being NGE. NGE was about massive combat changes and culling 34 classes into 9 without telling a single soul about it until the last minute.

 

SWTOR NGE moment are the changes being hidden from players until the last moment. If you aren't concerned fine, but others are.

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Without turning this into an NGE/SWG debate but that's exactly where my concerns come from. And for those who lived through that phase in gaming history, will also understand this. If you weren't there (and this goes for anyone) you simply won't understand this point of view.

 

Its called Betrayal.

 

Dramatic?! Indeed. SOE/Lucasarts decided not to tell a single soul about the gaming changing alterations inbound to SWG, despite a brand new expansion arriving. And just DAYS after its release, NGE arrived. Now SWTOR is a little different as all the changes are actually coming in the expansion and we are being kept in the dark.

 

For many gamers, SWG was my first MMO and it was also my first experience with a gaming company that simply betrayed its playing community.

 

Now rumours have it that SWTOR is going to become a single player experience and given that there is actually no CONFIRMED new Operations, Flashpoints, Warzones etc and that you can only do 'story' as a single player, all points to this.

 

A few players may be happy to pay £9 a month for a 'Netflix' style content drop but I bet the majority won't be. With no firm dates for anything new outside of story, it does set alarm bells ringing.

 

Is this SWTORS NGE moment? Maybe for some, Are the massive changes to crafting a game changer for some? Maybe. How about the changes to combat? Combat is already a mess and again, from the information out there, its going to have zero balance going forward.

 

These all could be huge game changers for people who may/not decide if they should continue to subscribe.

 

Unfortunately, given Biowares trademark approach to burying their heads in the sand when it all gets too heated, they have let this run, rumours everywhere and nothing really confirmed. And with just over 1 month to until they launch an expansion, I would be concerned if nothing was cemented in stone by now as final.

 

NGE...drink!

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Maybe if you actually read what I said. Its called an 'NGE MOMENT'. I haven't said anything about it actually being NGE. NGE was about massive combat changes and culling 34 classes into 9 without telling a single soul about it until the last minute.

 

SWTOR NGE moment are the changes being hidden from players until the last moment. If you aren't concerned fine, but others are.

 

There is nothing to be concerned about. They aren't hiding any massive insane overhaul of the game like SOE did where they didn't even give people info on anything and just dropped it on them and said "take it".

 

Just please stop. They have said so much already without giving away a lot of the details. Whatever happened to people waiting patiently for something and then wanting that thrill of the surprises they get when something new comes their way?

 

Just take a wait and see approach and see what's in store for us in the expansion. If you want a 20 point developer roadmap about KotFE and explaining what they are doing and why they did, you aren't going to get anything like that at all.

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There is nothing to be concerned about. They aren't hiding any massive insane overhaul of the game like SOE did where they didn't even give people info on anything and just dropped it on them and said "take it".

 

Just please stop. They have said so much already without giving away a lot of the details. Whatever happened to people waiting patiently for something and then wanting that thrill of the surprises they get when something new comes their way?

 

Just take a wait and see approach and see what's in store for us in the expansion. If you want a 20 point developer roadmap about KotFE and explaining what they are doing and why they did, you aren't going to get anything like that at all.

Just book mark this thread and lets see who is right on Oct 20th? You can give away information, without the need to spoil story.

 

I also suggest you watch Blizzards stream from Gamescom about their expansion has doesn't even have a release date. Even I sat up and went 'Blimey! Maybe I should play wow again' - haven't touched the game since 2007 but the changes to PvP made me take notice.

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Just book mark this thread and lets see who is right on Oct 20th? You can give away information, without the need to spoil story.

 

I also suggest you watch Blizzards stream from Gamescom about their expansion has doesn't even have a release date. Even I sat up and went 'Blimey! Maybe I should play wow again' - haven't touched the game since 2007 but the changes to PvP made me take notice.

 

Ok, I'm done. You are going to pull the old "I'll be right and you'll be wrong" technique? This thread is going nowhere. There is nothing to be concerned about. Nothing is getting removed or overhauled that much of the game to have it be anywhere associated with NGE. Have a great time in the game if you still play it, and enjoy the new expansion UK :)

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What people want to know is "When will their companions they invested time, money, their hearts into, return" :p

 

They have kept quiet on it. They haven't even said any of them are returning. They're being silent on it, because they're afraid people will up and leave if their Torian or Mako is taken from them.

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So over the next seven weeks, it seems like there are about three more things they can showcase: (1) the new Abilities / Discipline perks each class will get with the new 5 levels; (2) the changes to Crew Skills / crafting; and (3) drilling down more into the (non-spoiler) mechanics of how this Alliance system is going to work.

 

Other than that, we already know that:

 

  • They are Raising the level cap by 5
  • Nine Chapters of 'personal story' content will be released at launch with a new chapter a month starting early next year, continuing until we have all 16 Chapters of the current story arc
  • The story is not Class-based, all characters are "the Outlander" - player choices will make the story play out differently (example was shown of letting a city be destroyed to cover your escape vs saving the city)
  • Everyone gets one free new Level 60 character, additional insta-60s will probably be sold on the CM
  • They are looking to increase the number of character slots per-server.
  • They are looking into making Datacrons Legacy-wide
  • All Operations are being set to 65 and are available from 50-65 with a Bolster mechanic
  • Aim/Cunning/Strength/Willpower are all being replaced with a universal stat.
  • Group Finder will feature a different SM Op each day, and each week one highlighted HM Op will give increased rewards
  • Most Story Mode Flashpoints are being made into Tactical FPs and will be available from 10-65
  • Hard Mode Flashpoints are being set to 65 and are available from 50-65 with a Bolster mechanic
  • Black Talon, Esseles, Boarding Party, Taral V, Foundry, Maelstrom Prison, Battle of Ilum, and False Emperor FPs are getting new Solo Modes.
  • We will gain access to new Companions (including some from other Classes) throughout the new story, but you will still be able to summon your original companions while playing if you aren't interested in sticking to the story.
  • All companions can now fill all three roles, DPS, Tank, and Heals.
  • Companion gear is now purely cosmetic - their stats will be based on your character level and Presence rating only.

 

Yeah... they're really being so secretive at this point.:rolleyes:

Edited by DarthDymond
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So over the next seven weeks, it seems like there are about three more things they can showcase: (1) the new Abilities / Discipline perks each class will get with the new 5 levels; (2) the changes to Crew Skills / crafting; and (3) drilling down more into the (non-spoiler) mechanics of how this Alliance system is going to work.

 

Other than that, we already know that:

 

  • They are Raising the level cap by 5
  • Nine Chapters of 'personal story' content will be released at launch with a new chapter a month starting early next year, continuing until we have all 16 Chapters of the current story arc.
  • The story is not Class-based, all characters are "the Outlander" - player choices will make the story play out differently (example was shown of letting a city be destroyed to cover your escape vs saving the city).
  • All Operations are being set to 65 and are available from 50-65 with a Bolster mechanic
  • Aim/Cunning/Strength/Willpower are all being replaced with a universal stat.
  • Group Finder will feature a different SM Op each day, and each week one highlighted HM Op will give increased rewards
  • Most Story Mode Flashpoints are being made into Tactical FPs and will be available from 10-65
  • Hard Mode Flashpoints are being set to 65 and are available from 50-65 with a Bolster mechanic
  • Black Talon, Esseles, Boarding Party, Taral V, Foundry, Maelstrom Prison, Battle of Ilum, and False Emperor FPs are getting new Solo Modes.
  • We will gain access to new Companions (including some from other Classes) throughout the new story, but you will still be able to summon your original companions while playing if you aren't interested in sticking to the story.
  • All companions can now fill all three roles, DPS, Tank, and Heals.
  • Companion gear is now purely cosmetic - their stats will be based on your character level and Presence rating only.

 

Yeah... they're really being so secretive at this point.:rolleyes:

 

what is there to say about the alliance?? its just a pve thing like the story leading to SoR, it doesnt affect the game world whatsoever. The only thing they should show and explain is the crafting system and the new class skill like you said the rest is known already.

Edited by xxIncubixx
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http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/legion/#home

 

New class with new abilitys, new item class, new region, new npcs, new pvp reward system, new world boss.

 

That is already more "new" stuff announced than what swtor will add to the game with KOTFE.

 

Funny, cause I'd say we are on par:

 

1) New Companions

2) More story, some background

3) A new trailer

4) Companions are going to be discussed probably this week or next

5) New planet

6) New pvp rewards

7) 5 more levels with new abilities

 

The difference being, I'd believe BW more than blizzard given how blizzard loves to say and hype a lot of crap that never actually makes it to the game but they are quite happy to sell you a pre-order off those hyped fake features.

 

I'm starting to like a bit of silence that delivers solid information that is actually in game to something like what blizzard does and hypes every idea that comes out of their *****, sells pre-orders off that information, then doesn't actually have those hyped features in game.

 

I think the problem with KOTFE is the following: other than story there won't be much new. We already know they removed NiM-OPs, Companion gearing and some item stats.

 

First of all they didn't remove those NM ops. There just not adding any new ones. The companion changes are so much more a good thing for the over all game. USe the companion you want, not one you are forced to because of your class role. As far as the minor stat changes right now, it makes sense.

Edited by Quraswren
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So over the next seven weeks, it seems like there are about three more things they can showcase: (1) the new Abilities / Discipline perks each class will get with the new 5 levels; (2) the changes to Crew Skills / crafting; and (3) drilling down more into the (non-spoiler) mechanics of how this Alliance system is going to work.

 

Other than that, we already know that:

 

  • They are Raising the level cap by 5
  • Nine Chapters of 'personal story' content will be released at launch with a new chapter a month starting early next year, continuing until we have all 16 Chapters of the current story arc
  • The story is not Class-based, all characters are "the Outlander" - player choices will make the story play out differently (example was shown of letting a city be destroyed to cover your escape vs saving the city)
  • Everyone gets one free new Level 60 character, additional insta-60s will probably be sold on the CM
  • They are looking to increase the number of character slots per-server.
  • All Operations are being set to 65 and are available from 50-65 with a Bolster mechanic
  • Aim/Cunning/Strength/Willpower are all being replaced with a universal stat.
  • Group Finder will feature a different SM Op each day, and each week one highlighted HM Op will give increased rewards
  • Most Story Mode Flashpoints are being made into Tactical FPs and will be available from 10-65
  • Hard Mode Flashpoints are being set to 65 and are available from 50-65 with a Bolster mechanic
  • Black Talon, Esseles, Boarding Party, Taral V, Foundry, Maelstrom Prison, Battle of Ilum, and False Emperor FPs are getting new Solo Modes.
  • We will gain access to new Companions (including some from other Classes) throughout the new story, but you will still be able to summon your original companions while playing if you aren't interested in sticking to the story.
  • All companions can now fill all three roles, DPS, Tank, and Heals.
  • Companion gear is now purely cosmetic - their stats will be based on your character level and Presence rating only.

 

Yeah... they're really being so secretive at this point.:rolleyes:

 

I for one are waiting for some actual "new" stuff that adds something substantial to the game that keeps the players still playing in the game AND get some new/old players back. I mean, most servers are on "light" all the time.

 

5 more levels ? Probably done within 1 weekend without any rush

 

Story ? Okay to do it one time, maybe even a good story.

 

Replay of story? Boring after the first time. I really would like to see some metrics on how many players play a second time through DA or MA. And those games really have choices that matter.

 

Operation/HMs with bolster and some playable solo ? No interest in playing the old stuff again and no interest to play solo stuff in an MMO.

 

All those changes to companions ? I do not care. Are some players really playing this game for months because of companions ?

 

Everything else is nothing i see noteworthy as new stuff for a game expansion. Those things could just be released with regular patches.

 

This expansion is just so small. I mean all SWTOR expansions where not big but this one?

Edited by Neglience
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You know how every expansion ever has had the developers say "we'll release more details as we get closer to release" after setting up the initial web page, and then nothing has been added? They're doing that thing. Standard operating procedure.
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I for one are waiting for some actual "new" stuff that adds something substantial to the game that keeps the players still playing in the game AND get some new/old players back.

 

5 more levels ? Probably done within 1 weekend without any rush

 

Story ? Okay to do it one time, maybe even a good story.

 

Replay of story? Boring after the first time. I really would like to see some metrics on how many players play a second time through DA or MA. And those games really have choices that matter.

 

Operation/HMs with bolster and some playable solo ? No interest in playing the old stuff again and no interest to play solo stuff in an MMO.

 

All those changes to companions ? I do not care. Are some players really playing this game for months because of companions ?

Saying "this new expansion doesn't have enough of the stuff I want to keep me interested" is a very different complaint than saying "they are hiding information about what is in this expansion".

 

This expansion is very story-focused, and that's not everyone's cup of tea - I expect there will be plenty of people unsubcribing over this direction the game is currently taking (just as I suspect there will be many lapsed players resubscribing because of it), but again that doesn't mean they are being secretive about it, it just means they aren't making the sort of expansion that some people want to see.

Edited by DarthDymond
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