Marauders more capable

[Icykill_]

I've been lvling a new Marauder because I hadn't played my old lvl 60 in pvp since well before lvl 60 was introduced and to to be honest, I was scared after all the bad press they were getting and it completely put me off trying...

Then I start seeing these awesome Marauders popping up very occasionally... They were nearly unstoppable and could nearly single handedly decimate teams... I started to pay attention to these guys...

I decided the easiest way to get good on a Mara was to roll another and learn from scratch... All through lowbies I was dominating other people from lvl 11... I started to wonder what all the fuss was about... I figured when I got to mids I would find out... So I get to mids (lvl 30) and start smashing lvl 59s with ease... Totally confused at this point as too why they are considered so bad... I'm in my mid 40s now and the only other competition is against other good Maras and the occasional good player from the other classes... Thinking there must be some major difference when you hit 60 that gives them this bad rep, I decided to jump on my 60 to find out...

So my lvl 60 has 153 pve gear only at the moment and obviously some extra abilities I needed to learn... But I can say I did pretty good with what I had... As lvl 60 is where the better players are, it was a bit more challenging... But certainly not worth the bad rep that Maras get...

I'm not sure if it was the changes that the devs made or if people just can't play a more complex class and feel the need to play the easiest classes... I can't wait till I get my new Mara to 60... By then I should have refined my skills from only lvling up in pvp...

So anyone who wants to play a more challenging class and also a fun one... Go roll a Mara or Sent... The bad press they are getting is false... And before you say "ranked"... we all know every other class besides the FOTM ones aren't considered viable either... But there are some competent Maras playing ranked... Guess I'll find out when I get there...

[Raazmir]

Mara is generally a high skill cap class. The format really affects where they shine too. 8v8's are less likely to have coordinated focus on any given individual, which helps the class a lot.

[KumbayaGOD]

I've been lvling a new Marauder because I hadn't played my old lvl 60 in pvp since well before lvl 60 was introduced and to to be honest, I was scared after all the bad press they were getting and it completely put me off trying...

Then I start seeing these awesome Marauders popping up very occasionally... They were nearly unstoppable and could nearly single handedly decimate teams... I started to pay attention to these guys...

I decided the easiest way to get good on a Mara was to roll another and learn from scratch... All through lowbies I was dominating other people from lvl 11... I started to wonder what all the fuss was about... I figured when I got to mids I would find out... So I get to mids (lvl 30) and start smashing lvl 59s with ease... Totally confused at this point as too why they are considered so bad... I'm in my mid 40s now and the only other competition is against other good Maras and the occasional good player from the other classes... Thinking there must be some major difference when you hit 60 that gives them this bad rep, I decided to jump on my 60 to find out...

So my lvl 60 has 153 pve gear only at the moment and obviously some extra abilities I needed to learn... But I can say I did pretty good with what I had... As lvl 60 is where the better players are, it was a bit more challenging... But certainly not worth the bad rep that Maras get...

I'm not sure if it was the changes that the devs made or if people just can't play a more complex class and feel the need to play the easiest classes... I can't wait till I get my new Mara to 60... By then I should have refined my skills from only lvling up in pvp...

So anyone who wants to play a more challenging class and also a fun one... Go roll a Mara or Sent... The bad press they are getting is false... And before you say "ranked"... we all know every other class besides the FOTM ones aren't considered viable either... But there are some competent Maras playing ranked... Guess I'll find out when I get there...

 

actually i am going to level a mara soon and thinking to roll fury , since many people said carnage to squishy without healer. So yeah i am a masochist

[Lundorff]

@Icykill_ What AC are you using?

[Icykill_]

actually i am going to level a mara soon and thinking to roll fury , since many people said carnage to squishy without healer. So yeah i am a masochist

 

I play Fury...

[denpic]

The only change i would like to see that I think is warranted is for marauders and sentinels is to be able to use guarded

By the force whilst stunned.

[Icykill_]

Mara is generally a high skill cap class. The format really affects where they shine too. 8v8's are less likely to have coordinated focus on any given individual, which helps the class a lot.

 

I'm actually finding it even easier in Arena... But then it's regs and also mixed skill lvls...

It can become a little "exciting" when you get focused in 8 man... 4 on you at once is daunting on any class... But I don't think it's any worse on a Mara... They are much harder to kill than you think...

I've found that I really contribute to my teams by putting heaps of pressure on the healers and tanks... They can only last so long against the sustained burst damage... Surprisingly I can even kill a guarded healer (not always)

[Icykill_]

The only change i would like to see that I think is warranted is for marauders and sentinels is to be able to use guarded

By the force whilst stunned.

 

Oohh (rubs hands together ) that would be nice... I already feel hard to kill... But that would make it soooo much better... LoL

[jauvtus]

Sent/mara is perfectly viable in regs. Our real issues come in ranked games, especially 4dps vs 4dps games. But in regs mara is fine with all 3 specs.

The known problems: very long CD for the best defCDs for a melee class (our defCDs are quite solid but I become really mad when ppl overestimate them and start the Guarded by the Devs and so on), CC susceptibility on Annihilation and Carnage (especially the latter), no self-heals, only with heroic utility every 3 min 24% if attacked, Anni's selfheal only works if can dotspread to at least 4-5 targets (oh and every 6s!), otherwise useless ****, Fury has ability bloat (still the most popular for numerous reasons, but impossible to play for full potential, simply cant rotate all abilities on CD).

Advantages: if specced into Phantom and Unbound and using Fury stacks for Predation (impossible for Fury spec ofc), mara is the fastest class in the game, outrunning the famous PTs (not the ones on your team ofc ), both Predation and Bloodthirst are raidbuffs, with Obfuscate you can help your healer even though we dont have taunt and completely shut down MM snipers (and almost Carnage maras), Inexorable grants endless Rage (since everyone will CC you) and short CD on CC breaker, Force Camo can negate PT grenades and aoe CC, but only really powerful if you have a good/pockethealer. Also I cant seem to find any class that is so much fun as mara

 

I listed AC specific adv/disadv, ofc there are other things as well, but things that other ACs have as well

Edited August 27, 2015 by jauvtus

[rasputko]

I've been lvling a new Marauder because I hadn't played my old lvl 60 in pvp since well before lvl 60 was introduced and to to be honest, I was scared after all the bad press they were getting and it completely put me off trying...

Then I start seeing these awesome Marauders popping up very occasionally... They were nearly unstoppable and could nearly single handedly decimate teams... I started to pay attention to these guys...

I decided the easiest way to get good on a Mara was to roll another and learn from scratch... All through lowbies I was dominating other people from lvl 11... I started to wonder what all the fuss was about... I figured when I got to mids I would find out... So I get to mids (lvl 30) and start smashing lvl 59s with ease... Totally confused at this point as too why they are considered so bad... I'm in my mid 40s now and the only other competition is against other good Maras and the occasional good player from the other classes... Thinking there must be some major difference when you hit 60 that gives them this bad rep, I decided to jump on my 60 to find out...

So my lvl 60 has 153 pve gear only at the moment and obviously some extra abilities I needed to learn... But I can say I did pretty good with what I had... As lvl 60 is where the better players are, it was a bit more challenging... But certainly not worth the bad rep that Maras get...

I'm not sure if it was the changes that the devs made or if people just can't play a more complex class and feel the need to play the easiest classes... I can't wait till I get my new Mara to 60... By then I should have refined my skills from only lvling up in pvp...

So anyone who wants to play a more challenging class and also a fun one... Go roll a Mara or Sent... The bad press they are getting is false... And before you say "ranked"... we all know every other class besides the FOTM ones aren't considered viable either... But there are some competent Maras playing ranked... Guess I'll find out when I get there...

 

This glorification of maras/sents needs to stop. The only reason you're smashing anything is that your group has better class composition or you are playing against less skilled/experienced players. I'm currently lvling my scoundrel (both dps specs) and in lowbies i have most dmg/heals/killing blows & take the most dmg in more than 50% of games i play.

...so i should conclude that scoundrel dps is OP as s....? HELL NO

Please stop this nonsense thread because there's a lot of new/inexperienced players reading this forum.

Changes that devs made... really, are you serious?

You can say that maras/sents present a challenging class but they have a low ceiling. People that are good at playing maras/sents are the ones that know every class/spec in this game to the tiniest detail (or have much much better teammates/class composition).

challenging class+low ceiling= not really fun in a long run

challenging class+very high ceiling=operative concealment

 

IMPORTANT NOTIFICATION: I would not recommend to take an operative dps as your first toon in PVP; same goes for

snipers/maras/mandos. Start with Sin or a Sorc and than go to PT's and Juggs.

 

P.S. I'm talking about regular WZ's here, not ranked arenas.

[SeanFM]

Whilst IcyKill_ is exaggerating how good sents are when saying the only other competition is other sents, it's a perfectly valid point to say that sents/maras are nowhere near as bad as people seem to think they are. The change to transcendence/predation has really helped with mobility and survivability. We are no longer wrecked by a single root, we can keep up with vanguards who try to kite us and we now have an extra way of getting back on target other than just leap. In my opinion sents are in a decent spot for regs, but I know many disagree.

[Xanas]

I will say this, if you are good on a mara/sent the class becomes really, really good, at least in unranked. You just need to properly time your CD/DCD's.

[Icykill_]

Whilst IcyKill_ is exaggerating how good sents are when saying the only other competition is other sents, it's a perfectly valid point to say that sents/maras are nowhere near as bad as people seem to think they are. The change to transcendence/predation has really helped with mobility and survivability. We are no longer wrecked by a single root, we can keep up with vanguards who try to kite us and we now have an extra way of getting back on target other than just leap. In my opinion sents are in a decent spot for regs, but I know many disagree.

 

I did include other classes as competition when played by good players ... I only said other Maras because it seems there are only competent people playing Maras... Of course I was exaggerating... There are a few bad ones too... lol... But really any competent player on any class can be good competition...

 

Love having predation available on CD every 30sec if I want it... Especially in Hutt Ball...

[Technohic]

LOL Yeah, thats why I was asking what people were using a few days ago. Class has quietly gotten better and at the same time, if they are going to focus on story, I kind of want to play a jedi/sith. I'm not a super lore nerd but after PvP; solo story is my next favorite thing in an MMO and in Star Wars... I still can be that 7 year old watching the old Star Wars for the first time.

[Icykill_]

This glorification of maras/sents needs to stop. The only reason you're smashing anything is that your group has better class composition or you are playing against less skilled/experienced players. I'm currently lvling my scoundrel (both dps specs) and in lowbies i have most dmg/heals/killing blows & take the most dmg in more than 50% of games i play.

...so i should conclude that scoundrel dps is OP as s....? HELL NO

Please stop this nonsense thread because there's a lot of new/inexperienced players reading this forum.

Changes that devs made... really, are you serious?

You can say that maras/sents present a challenging class but they have a low ceiling. People that are good at playing maras/sents are the ones that know every class/spec in this game to the tiniest detail (or have much much better teammates/class composition).

challenging class+low ceiling= not really fun in a long run

challenging class+very high ceiling=operative concealment

 

IMPORTANT NOTIFICATION: I would not recommend to take an operative dps as your first toon in PVP; same goes for

snipers/maras/mandos. Start with Sin or a Sorc and than go to PT's and Juggs.

 

P.S. I'm talking about regular WZ's here, not ranked arenas.

 

From the mouth of someone who isn't competent enough to even play a Mara... Scoundrels are one of the easiest classes to play... And take much less skill to play than Maras... Scoundrels have self heal, more stuns and can stealth escape at will... Your main attacks are from stealth and behind... If you weren't doing well, then there would be something wrong...

But I've yet to see any scoundrel/Operative pre 60 beat me in DPS on my Mara... Even you admit it that the class is a challenge to play... Hence takes more skill...

I'm not advocating that the newest pvper roll a Mara... What I am saying is that the class does not deserve the bad wrap it's been getting... They are extremely good in the hands of a skilled player and competent players do well too...

 

Basically if you want to have fun and want a challenge... Play a Mara and become a wreaking ball..

 

FYI... Nerf Operatives and Scoundrels

[Kaedusz]

I feel the weird urge to kill puppies while reading what you are saying op. You are so full of ****, it's nauseating.

Do you really actually believe in the myth ''oh this class is nerfed, so if i don't die the moment i enter a wz, i must be gosu''

And please don't use pre 60 wzs to form a finished opinion about the state of classes.

 

What did you actually and really expect from the mara? To just die instantly with 0 damage done? It's still a viable class with it's uses and yes it's a little more challenging than all else,even merc, but so what?

 

It's not THAT nerfed... the point about the ''bad press'' is that mechanics wise it feels an autdated class that can't compete with all the new shiny tools everyone else has. Outside of the aoe sprint, it doesn't bring anything to the team that other classes don't do better.

 

Yes there are some skilled maras that stick to the class no matter what and they own in a wz, and they are noticeable. But compare how many of those you see, vs all the other classes. Those other classes you don't notice anymore it's all a blurr because.. you guessed it they not as nerfed. But again the difference is not THAT much.Good players can still do good.

 

And yes mara is my main, and i agree with what you say, i am just annoyed by the tone of what you are saying.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Vember]

As long as Marauders continue to lack cc immunity, they will suck. That's all there is to it. When I play my Marauder, if I"m not in Fury spec, I spend 90% of my time in combat under some form of CC (80% as Fury). It is virtually unplayable. The only time Marauders "do well" is if their team composition is stellar, a requirement that no other class in the game needs to "do well". Edited August 27, 2015 by Vember

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

The main problem I see as a Fury Marauder is the lack of people who Cleanse their team-member's CC's. Even Healers forget they can cleanse CC and it's *********** frustrating! Sure, I have 6s of CC immunity after Force Crush, but that's only every other Force Crush... Roots are nowhere near as annoying with the 30s CD Root Purge on Predation for your entire team, making you a much better version of a Juggernaut (50% Move Speed for 8s on spam? Pfff, try 70% for 10s with a Root Break AND 10% Defense on Melee and Ranged attacks! Sure you can only use it every 30s, but still...) The only problem, and thing that isn't making Marauders broken, is the fact that they don't have their new Skillful Utility from 4.0. Which makes Saber Ward a god tier DCD, 6s of CC immunity like the Assassin's Deflection, but stack Blood Ward with that? You are damn near unstoppable if you combine that with this new troll build concept where you use Anni with an Ephemeral Mending Relic, that's tons of self-healing and Group Healing if you use Berserk! And don't even get me started on Fury spec having the ENTIRE DURATION of SABER WARD be CC Immune...

 

The rebirth of Marauders is coming, and it will be glorious.

[Icykill_]

I feel the weird urge to kill puppies while reading what you are saying op. You are so full of ****, it's nauseating.

Do you really actually believe in the myth ''oh this class is nerfed, so if i don't die the moment i enter a wz, i must be gosu''

And please don't use pre 60 wzs to form a finished opinion about the state of classes.

 

What did you actually and really expect from the mara? To just die instantly with 0 damage done? It's still a viable class with it's uses and yes it's a little more challenging than all else,even merc, but so what?

 

It's not THAT nerfed... the point about the ''bad press'' is that mechanics wise it feels an autdated class that can't compete with all the new shiny tools everyone else has. Outside of the aoe sprint, it doesn't bring anything to the team that other classes don't do better.

 

Yes there are some skilled maras that stick to the class no matter what and they own in a wz, and they are noticeable. But compare how many of those you see, vs all the other classes. Those other classes you don't notice anymore it's all a blurr because.. you guessed it they not as nerfed. But again the difference is not THAT much.Good players can still do good.

 

And yes mara is my main, and i agree with what you say, i am just annoyed by the tone of what you are saying.

 

Don't kill the puppies...

 

FYI I don't believe in the need to Nerf everything or buff... Sometimes things need a tweak... But I'm not a fan in changing outright mechanics... People are always calling for nerfs and buffs before learning to play a class or learning to counter a class after changes... Most of the nerfs since 3.0 went to far and made things a bit clunky for some of those classes...

 

The point of my post was to shine some positive light on the issue... How many threads have we seen about how bad Maras are or how many posts do we see of people listing Maras at the bottom of the classes for pvp...

 

I do have a lvl 60 Mara too that I played to see if I was missing some fundamental issue with the class... So my opinion on the class wasn't just on pre 60... I also have 7 other lvl 60s... I also have enough pvp experience at lvl 60 to form my opinion...

 

Sorry if my tone put you off... Actually I'm not... So take that anyway you want... But from someone who mains a Mara I would have thought you could appreciate the post... Guess not... Thanks for the positive response though

[Raansu]

Whilst IcyKill_ is exaggerating how good sents are when saying the only other competition is other sents, it's a perfectly valid point to say that sents/maras are nowhere near as bad as people seem to think they are. The change to transcendence/predation has really helped with mobility and survivability. We are no longer wrecked by a single root, we can keep up with vanguards who try to kite us and we now have an extra way of getting back on target other than just leap. In my opinion sents are in a decent spot for regs, but I know many disagree.

 

That buff is pretty weak. It helps but its still weak. First the CD is too long. I can build stacks faster without that utility. Only reason I take it is to prevent a dps loss on frenzy. The other crap shoot is that it only applies on ability activation. You can still be rooted during its duration unlike force speed and hydraulic override which give the immunity for the entirety of the abilities duration.

 

Like I said, it helps, but its hardly a game changer. I still get rooted by someone else after activating predation all the time. Pretty much wastes the CD and you have to either deal with it or burn camo.

 

The other issue with mara's in pvp is lack of passives. We have to waste slots on mandatory utilities that other classes have as passive. Other classes get a bit more variety. We have "take these utilities or be completely useless." We still lack an off hand passive, force cam root break should be passive, our fury building should be passive, predation should be passive with a CD reduction utility to bring it down to 25s. There are so many things that could be done to make the class suck less.....but hey at least we are good in regs.

[JackNader]

Difference between a good and bad mara post 3.0 has always been predation usage and it's as simple as that.

[Raansu]

Difference between a good and bad mara post 3.0 has always been predation usage and it's as simple as that.

 

This made me lol.

[JackNader]

This made me lol.

 

I don't know why you're laughing. The meta since 3.0 has been a kite vs anti kite arms race. How many marauders spam berserk only to be kited to bits. It's why Bioware took predation off the fury system via a utility for all those who couldn't detach themselves from berserk spam. PvP is about mobility now more than ever especially for the marauder.

[Kyuuu]

I don't know why you're laughing. The meta since 3.0 has been a kite vs anti kite arms race. How many marauders spam berserk only to be kited to bits. It's why Bioware took predation off the fury system via a utility for all those who couldn't detach themselves from berserk spam. PvP is about mobility now more than ever especially for the marauder.

 

Predation dont mean squat if you just get rooted again right after popping it to clear the initial root/immobilizing , if immunity was tied to pred it would be another story, but it is not it tied to force camo force camo should have the cleanse tied to not the immuity, do you actual play the class cause you would know this if you did.

 

 

I play Fury...

 

Play any other spec and i will to bet you wont be saying the same thing, fury is the one spec for marauders that dont suffer greatly from all the CC/Slow/Root/ stun going on in PVP. cause compared to the other specs fury is much better off in that respect. gore and deadly saber greatly suffer from this as result.

 

There all viablespec it just Fury is the one spec that less effect by the out of control root/stuns/mezz/slow going on in pvp, any the spec can dominate the boards if there not being shutdown constantly.

 

Then we have the whole new ops are completely unfriendly to melee compared to ranged, then comment from the devs that CM battle is gift to melee cause they felt about about new ops not being complete on fair to melee. the CM battle is just as bad as tos/rav. which there all better suited for ranged.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Kyuuu

[JackNader]

Predation dont mean squat if you just get rooted again right after popping it to clear the initial root/immobilizing , if immunity was tied to pred it would be another story, but it is not it tied to force camo force camo should have the cleanse tied to not the immuity, do you actual play the class cause you would know this if you did.

 

 

That does happen on occasion. It's more of an issue if you take predation off the fury system or don't use it at all. Back when I played this game prior to 3.2 I never had a problem with mobility. I ran carnage and would generate enough fury to pop predation again before my pred dropped off. Frenzy was a second layer used for berserk burst on priority targets or WORST case scenario popping predation again to break a double root if desperate.

 

The key is mobility. What's changed since I played last? A second pred utility which benefits Fury greatly but is a mobility loss for carnage., no health cost undying rage and a few tweaks here and there.

 

Annihilation i still meh.

 

My main point still stands. Predation usage is what separates ****** marauders from good ones. Predation = more up time for you and your team = more opportunity to generate fury stacks = extremely hard to kite = more damage for you and your team.

 

Spamming berserk = poor uptime on target = being kited out the wazoo = low damage = low mobility training dummy.

Edited August 27, 2015 by JackNader