KotFE is a test!

[Andryah]

There is plenty of known desire for more group content. Be it warzones, flashpoints, operations, gsf, guild mechanics, etc...

 

This thread is not a plea for more group content. It is based around a theory that is quite bologna; that there won't be any group content ever again. The game is definitely getting money reinvested into it. The quality of what they have shown far is cause for extremely cautious optimism for additional story. I personally don't mind the level-scaling operation plan, and I hope that ops are coming sooner than later... but at this point there is no reason to believe they are never coming and that this is all one giant scam. Yeah, they're doing things to increase revenue (the subscriber rewards are as much and anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves), but that's not inherently bad.

 

All in all, you've said your peace, but there is still no reason to believe it's nothing more than rampant cynicism.

 

Well stated, and /thread IMO.

 

Then again.. the OP really just wants to continue to argue and complain.... and rehashing a conspiracy topic is always a good soap box for such activity.

[Bakakiba]

But because they arent telling you "You will go fight Colonel Mustard, Miss Scarlett, and Professor Plum in the library with a wrench next tuesday for a hamburger today" your having a tantrum and making the Lone Gunmen look like Scully.

 

X-Files reference!

[SelinaH]

True, it is conjecture, but that is called deductive reasoning.

Deductive reasoning is not conjecture.

[BrianDavion]

Look maybe the OP should pull his head out of the sand and look at what we;re going to have for end game group content at level 65 with 4.0

 

 

at level 65 all current operations in the game will be scaled up,

 

Eternity Vault (5 bosses)

Karagga’s Palace (5 bosses)

Explosive Conflict (4 bosses)

Terror From Beyond (5 bosses)

Scum and Villainy (7 bosses)

Golden Fury (1 boss)

Dread Fortress (5 bosses)

Dread Palace (5 bosses)

Ravagers (5 bosses)

Temple of Sacrifice (5 bosses)

 

so that's 10 raids, with 47 bosses among them, (incidently, I'm reasonably sure BW simply forgot the Ziost instance boss) that's an aweful lot of end game raid content sure it's not new but in terms of options avalaible there has never been as many viable options as there will be in 4.0, this applies for flashpoints as well, there's gonna be apprximatly 25 level 65 hard mode flashpoints. yet again the varity at level 65 will be fantastic. this is, honestly a great foundation for end game,

 

 

Basicly, they've not given us anything new because they've been going back and ensuring access to all past content instead a move that will only make the game better IMHO as they move forward. the short term meaning of this is that we can keep playing with the content they have after the raise the level cap. this IMHO means we'll likely see a more intreasting pace of FP release as BW gives them to us, as it makes for a good story, not as they release a new expansion and NEED content for us to grind on.

[ScarletBlaze]

I have never stated that I don't care about the story, I do, but I think that there should be flashpoints and ops that are integrated into the story as standard elements of an MMO. And I do not believe that they are in the works at all. BW can use all the pretty wording that they want to, but to my ears it's all just a delay mechanism that can be repeated over and over.r.

 

The problem is when they add Operations to the story line there will be people who will not be able to do it. Some do not like to group with some of the people that do operations, some don't have that kind of time that an operation takes. So what they are doing, though some disagree with it, is not including operations with the story line.

 

Can they do other types of operations, yes and from everything I have read they said they will do it just right now they are focusing on the story.

 

You can chose not to believe them, as it is your right, but others chose to believe what they said. Some will wait and see and if they don't, I can imagine the storm in the forums then. Right now the best solution is wait and see.

[JattaGin]

KotFE is a test.

 

The whole life is a test.

 

A test of the audience and of the people.

 

And the lamb screamed HURZ.

 

(For those who understand.)

[BarrinMarshall]

Yeah, it's a test alright. A test of everyones patience.

[BarrinMarshall]

If the truth were anything close to the theories you've put forth in this thread, and they were in fact looking to eliminate group content altogether - then why, exactly, are they rehauling flashpoints and operations? Why would they bother if their big plan was to come back and say they're abandoning group content? Makes no sense to me.

 

They are re-hashing the OPs and FPs because either A) They don't have the resources to keep developing new ones every year (or whatever) or B) They won't make new ones because of all the problems that they have with them bug, exploit and so on wise. C) Only a small fraction of the player base actually runs OPS which just reinforces either A or B, whichever is the case.

 

Re-hashing the old stuff just temporarily gets BW off the hook since KOTFE is MMO-lite.

[shadowrouge]

I have never stated that I don't care about the story, I do, but I think that there should be flashpoints and ops that are integrated into the story as standard elements of an MMO. And I do not believe that they are in the works at all. BW can use all the pretty wording that they want to, but to my ears it's all just a delay mechanism that can be repeated over and over.

 

Imagine if they came out and said "there will be no ops or flashpoints in this expansion or in the forseeable future (a year), period." Bad news, but it would certainly clear the air and let us know where we stand. But they are not doing that, because it's not how they operate, escpecially when they can string along a lot of people for a long time and for a lot of money.

 

--- --- --- --- ---

 

Also, imagine that there WAS a flashpoint or ops in the works that was directly story-related ... why wouldn't they tell us? It's a fantastic thing. They're either not telling us because there isn't one, or more frighteningly:

 

THEY DON'T KNOW.

 

And therefore they don't even know where they are going with the story in general, single-player mode or whatever you will. How's that for epic BW storytelling? How will you all feel if this all fizzles out like the SoR --> Ziost debacle? How did that all end? It didn't, because they had no clue there either.

 

I'm not going to bash your opinion here. Its yours and you can voice it. But {and this is MY opinion} you have not been around since launch, or even RoTHC. Because after RoTHC came out we were told by BW/EA that there would be no more class specific story content. In fact until SoR there was none and SoR only gave us one class story.

 

They where going to just make general story for every one. So for two years now its been little to no story. Several flashpoints added. An OP or two and many many general quested added to the game.

Now BW/EA listens to the players and comes up with an expansion that GIVES us story. Something we have asked for for years and you come up with the idea no more group content is ever going to come again.

 

Why can't you wait for some group content. God knows I want some more group content. BUT I want more story just as much if not a little more.

 

Again your opinion is yours and you're allowed to have it. I wont try and change your mind on it. But being patient is what BW/EA has taughtt us about this game if nothing else. They don't tell us anything about what they are doing. They probably never will. But just because they aren't talking doesn't mean they aren't working on it. That they have taught us as well.

Edited August 9, 2015 by shadowrouge

[Eanelinea]

Then what's the issue? Find another game to play at that point. If your hypothetical turns out to be true, then it's pointless for you and anyone else desiring "meaningful" group content to ask for it, because it is never gonna happen - the numbers have already spoken in that regard.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how many people in the gaming community expect a game to cater to their personal playstyle and personal whims. That is an impossibility. No game, no matter the budget can appeal to every single person, or group of people out there. Accept the fact that the hypothetical SWTOR is not the game for you and go find a game more suited to your needs. Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

Hey, I want to see the actual fade to black scenes where the two are ripping each others' clothes off, tossing them on the floor, and having massive tonsil hockey sessions. This ain't gonna happen in this rated T for Teen game. So I suck it up and just go 'eh one day there won't be prudes who don't like this' but I keep playing cause I enjoy the game.

 

Hell, if it were up to me, there would be new stories every single day. Good or bad, I'd do them all. But again, ain't gonna happen. I want my companions to do way more than they'll probably ever do even coming with the new expansion, but meh, I suck it up and keep playing cause I like the game. Hell, I HATE togruta as a species. I think they're fugly, but I bought the species unlock to support those who want it and want other species in the future. I do this to both support the game and support my fellow gamers.

 

I mean, if someone doesn't want to wait or doesn't like something and you KNOW it's will never come or will never come fast enough, just go already!

 

(This isn't pointed at the person I quoted, the rant I mean.)

[Codedrago]

Hey, I want to see the actual fade to black scenes where the two are ripping each others' clothes off, tossing them on the floor, and having massive tonsil hockey sessions. This ain't gonna happen in this rated T for Teen game. So I suck it up and just go 'eh one day there won't be prudes who don't like this' but I keep playing cause I enjoy the game.

 

Dig deep enough into the internet and you'll probably find what you desire...And tell me when you find it

[Eanelinea]

Dig deep enough into the internet and you'll probably find what you desire...And tell me when you find it

 

I've read the PC/Companion fanfic out there, yes even the ones surpassing what M in games would mean. Pictures or it didn't happen.

[loctys]

Ahh, this is why the devs said yesterday at the cantina event in Germany that they are working on new group content but that it's just not coming out this year. Honestly, keep up with the facts, instead of spouting your wild accusations.

 

 

 

this right here if the op would keep up with the facts instead of wild conspiroucy theories one he would know that Singly player Story has been asked for alot followed by Group Content close second and if you would have listened to the dev's in the cantina event that was in germany they are working on new group content but again it will not be this year

[MaximusRex]

I really don't understand the hostility that I am encountering on this topic.

 

I am:

 

1. Asking for group content
   
2. Trying to understand BW/EA's strategy on the matter
   
3. Trying to encourage others who want new group content to make their voices heard, lest it be eliminated from the game forever
   

 

Why does this bother some of you so much?

 

Because they said they plan to make more group content, have explained their strategy on group content, and said they have no plans to eliminate it from the game at all, yet you still persist in making tin foil hat posts and ignore all the statements given. People who stick their fingers in their ears and go "nanananana" tend to get, and deserve, that kind of reaction.

[Kurkina]

Ahh, this is why the devs said yesterday at the cantina event in Germany that they are working on new group content but that it's just not coming out this year. Honestly, keep up with the facts, instead of spouting your wild accusations.

I am calling them out here I just dont believe them. "Working" on it can mean anything, and in this case I dont think it means designing environments, encounters, integrating a story and coding it all. And then there's this ... I will repeat myself here from an earlier post, in case any of you didnt read the whole thread:

 

What they have said leaves the door WIDE OPEN for an announcement like this at anytime in the future:

 

The release of KotFE has been a spectacular success. The overwhelmingly positive response to the new epic personal story line, where every choice matters, has proven that THIS is what players want, and we at BW value our customers and always try to meet their demands. Given the fact that our resources are finite, we have decided to indefinitely postpone any development of new Flashpoints and Operations in order to be able to focus all of our available resources on continuing to develop, deepen and enrich this epic story experience. We are not ruling out group content forever, we just want to focus for the time being on what has made KotFE the succes that it is.

 

The announcements they HAVE made and the way they have formulated them are a delay mechanism that directly enables and facilitates the annoucements like the one above.

 

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- ---

 

I will offer this closing comment and sign off from this thread, allowing it to die the gruesome death that it probably deserves.

 

I started this thread in hopes that enough people would see that despite BWs affirmation that new group content is in the works, there is no logical reason to believe that it is ever actually coming at all. BWs hands are not free in this matter and their statements cannot be taken at face value. I hoped that a discussion would ensue which would force BW to make a real statement about ops and flashpoints, something definite to which we could hold them concptually accountable.

 

Instead, the overwhelming response here was in defense of BW, but in a way that is surprising to me. If the prevailing counter-argument in this thread had been, "True, group content isnt coming but thats OK, we want story", then so be it. But the argument has been more to the tone of:

 

Group content IS coming at some point, and you the OP are an idiot for speculating otherwise.

 

While I have thick skin and am not "hurt" by this consensus nor the emotional way in which it has been presented here, it does leave me perplexed. While I can perhaps understand that the good-natured among you simply trust BW on what they have said and do not wish to engage in conjectural analysis of the (im)probability of there actually being any new group content ever again, I do not understand your motivation for defending BW so vehemently.

 

My only guess as to why you respond the way that you do is that you may feel that if you defend our tyranical masters, you will somehow gain their favour. I understand that none of you would consciously define your motivations in this way, but subcounciously it is this boot-licking attitude that is at the heart of your responses, the desire to align yourselves with the powerful and thereby have a fraction of their glory bestowed upon you.

 

However, this attitude is not in the community's best interest. It is in our best interest to put consistent pressure on BW to deliver the best service possible and to hold them accountable when that service does not live up to their promises or to our expectations. If THEY feel responsible and accountable to US, the result over a longer period of time is a better game for everybody. Over the years, their vague statements and terrible customer-service/community management has show that they feel no accountability whatsoever, as long as they follow EAs business model and we the players keep paying.

 

I fear what with KotFE, a shift in the business model is being tested on us, a further watering down of content and a forced "lowering of the expectation bar" by doling out bits and pieces of a potentially directionless story, all the while expecting us to pay what will over the course of the year amount to double or more the cost of a AAA single-player game.

 

If we "bite" and the game continues to be profitable over the course of this expansion's release schedule, there is no way that they will re-invest those profits into new group content which obviously no-one has wants since we have been paying them anyway. So if you we are happy with just a new hour of story here and there for our subscription money, so be it, because that is all we will ever get if the KotFE test succeeds.

 

Thanks all for participating and despite the heated debate, I respect all of your opinions.

[Krikos]

Let me present another perspective. Imagine that early in the New Year, Bioware posts the following:

 

Disclaimer: I am not saying that they WILL, just imagine it for the time being for the sake of the argument/question at the end ...

 

The release of KotFE has been a spectacular success. The overwhelmingly positive response to the new epic personal story line, where every choice matters, has proven that THIS is what players want, and we at BW value our customers and always try to meet their demands. Given the fact that our resources are finite, we have decided to indefinitely postpone any development of new Flashpoints and Operations in order to be able to focus all of our available resources on continuing to develop, deepen and enrich this epic story experience. We are not ruling out group content forever, we just want to focus for the time being on what has made KotFE the succes that it is.

 

 

If this (purely conjectural) announcement were to be made:

 

 

1. Would it surprise anyone? I think not.
   
2. Would it make sense? If the game were making money in its single-player iteration, I think it would make perfect sense from a business perspective for BW/EA.
   
3. Would any of you in this thread who believe BW will uphold its word of adding group content be upset? That remains to be seen.
   

 

What I am saying is that they are not stupid and are already counting on this contingency right now. No BW staffer will EVER post on this thread to deny it, because they need to have the option of pulling the plug on group play open, because it has already been discussed at the highest levels of planning.

 

In parallel, I believe that they are thinking abouot the possibility of introducing more group content, again, to keep that avenue open in case the company deems it financially necessary for the survival of the game. But I don't believe that as of now they are working on it on the level of story, environments, encounters and coding. At all.

 

 

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

 

TLDR: With regards to the conjectured orange text, BW has effectively already said this about the release of KotFE. What is to stop them from saying it again?

 

 

Eek, quickly everyone cancel your subs..........Kurkina can tell BW why all the players just left.........sheesh, what are you smoking?? I bet its illegal.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Krikos

[Bakakiba]

I will offer this closing comment and sign off from this thread, allowing it to die the gruesome death that it probably deserves.

 

Like the others you started on this same topic?

[Aries_cz]

Eek, quickly everyone cancel your subs..........Kurkina can tell BW why all the players just left.........sheesh, what are you smoking?? I bet its illegal.

 

As i said, I suspect Kurkina got into fidothegran's stash...

[Leklor]

Wow, the OP's last message summed up exactly what was wrong with his point:

 

-He still didn't present a single, solid element to strengthen his ramblings.

-He accused people of licking BW's arse and presented himself as the only sane man who could see the truth.

-He still refused to admit that some of the people who are satisfied with the announcement of KOTFE just don't care about group content instead of being Bioware fanboys.

 

Basically, an internet freedom fighter bent on showing the world how evil Bioware is, since apparently people who disagree with him are just weak-minded fools who can't realize BW is mind controlling them into accepting content they already like and not caring about the alleged (And proven to be false) absence of content they don't really care about.

[Codedrago]

I am calling them out here I just dont believe them. "Working" on it can mean anything, and in this case I dont think it means designing environments, encounters, integrating a story and coding it all. And then there's this ... I will repeat myself here from an earlier post, in case any of you didnt read the whole thread:

 

What they have said leaves the door WIDE OPEN for an announcement like this at anytime in the future:

 

The release of KotFE has been a spectacular success. The overwhelmingly positive response to the new epic personal story line, where every choice matters, has proven that THIS is what players want, and we at BW value our customers and always try to meet their demands. Given the fact that our resources are finite, we have decided to indefinitely postpone any development of new Flashpoints and Operations in order to be able to focus all of our available resources on continuing to develop, deepen and enrich this epic story experience. We are not ruling out group content forever, we just want to focus for the time being on what has made KotFE the succes that it is.

 

The announcements they HAVE made and the way they have formulated them are a delay mechanism that directly enables and facilitates the annoucements like the one above.

 

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- ---

 

I will offer this closing comment and sign off from this thread, allowing it to die the gruesome death that it probably deserves.

 

I started this thread in hopes that enough people would see that despite BWs affirmation that new group content is in the works, there is no logical reason to believe that it is ever actually coming at all. BWs hands are not free in this matter and their statements cannot be taken at face value. I hoped that a discussion would ensue which would force BW to make a real statement about ops and flashpoints, something definite to which we could hold them concptually accountable.

 

Instead, the overwhelming response here was in defense of BW, but in a way that is surprising to me. If the prevailing counter-argument in this thread had been, "True, group content isnt coming but thats OK, we want story", then so be it. But the argument has been more to the tone of:

 

Group content IS coming at some point, and you the OP are an idiot for speculating otherwise.

 

While I have thick skin and am not "hurt" by this consensus nor the emotional way in which it has been presented here, it does leave me perplexed. While I can perhaps understand that the good-natured among you simply trust BW on what they have said and do not wish to engage in conjectural analysis of the (im)probability of there actually being any new group content ever again, I do not understand your motivation for defending BW so vehemently.

 

My only guess as to why you respond the way that you do is that you may feel that if you defend our tyranical masters, you will somehow gain their favour. I understand that none of you would consciously define your motivations in this way, but subcounciously it is this boot-licking attitude that is at the heart of your responses, the desire to align yourselves with the powerful and thereby have a fraction of their glory bestowed upon you.

 

However, this attitude is not in the community's best interest. It is in our best interest to put consistent pressure on BW to deliver the best service possible and to hold them accountable when that service does not live up to their promises or to our expectations. If THEY feel responsible and accountable to US, the result over a longer period of time is a better game for everybody. Over the years, their vague statements and terrible customer-service/community management has show that they feel no accountability whatsoever, as long as they follow EAs business model and we the players keep paying.

 

I fear what with KotFE, a shift in the business model is being tested on us, a further watering down of content and a forced "lowering of the expectation bar" by doling out bits and pieces of a potentially directionless story, all the while expecting us to pay what will over the course of the year amount to double or more the cost of a AAA single-player game.

 

If we "bite" and the game continues to be profitable over the course of this expansion's release schedule, there is no way that they will re-invest those profits into new group content which obviously no-one has wants since we have been paying them anyway. So if you we are happy with just a new hour of story here and there for our subscription money, so be it, because that is all we will ever get if the KotFE test succeeds.

 

Thanks all for participating and despite the heated debate, I respect all of your opinions.

 

Wow, never before have I seen such a backhanded comment. You insult our opinion, then go to say you respect it? MAKE UP YOUR MIND

[loctys]

I just have to say wow to the op good way to insult others opinions when they disagree with you but then you say that you respect others opinions. You can't have it both ways of respecting and insulting others opinions just cause they disagree with you crazy conspiracy theories Edited August 9, 2015 by loctys

[_NovaBlast_]

I have no problem with group content as long as its not forced and not bribed as in There is nothing to be gained form participating in group content that cannot be acquired solo ( gear ,story , etc....) it should just be an option for people who like that sort of thing like pvp is for the niche crowd

 

For the peole who respond with " but this is a MMO you should expect group content"

 

That is not what a mmo is at its core .

 

MMO simply means multiple people are playing in the same environment at the same time ....it does not mean you a re "required" to group with others .

 

I applaud Bioware's current direction on created a group option al game.

Edited August 9, 2015 by _NovaBlast_

[Banthabreeder]

All I can say is last night, after a 2 week absence from playing any pvp or pve in the game, I went ahead and did 3 Flashpoints. I was bored out of fraken skull. I have done these Flashpoints at least 50 - 100 times already. Raising the level to 65 ain't gonna make it any more interesting.

 

Knowing that there will be NO NEW FLASHPOINTS or OPERATIONS until the fall of next year really has me wondering; how much longer will I continue to subscribe after I finish the first 9 chapters of KOTFE in October? There will be nothing new in November or December. Then starting in January to pay $15 a month, for each subsequent chapter, that I'm sure will only take anywhere from 45 min to an hour to complete is just not worth it in my eyes. Cause that is all you will get till KOTFE ends in June/July.

 

I can not for the life of me see how this decision of theirs will sustain the game long enough to keep subscribers subscribing.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Banthabreeder

[ShadowMudkip]

Lol, except for that story cutscenes cost major $$$$$$ to animate, and then pile on the cost of voice actors, writers for the story, and all other expenses, and KotFE is going to cost waaaay more to make than any group content you will ever see.

 

Please take the tinfoil hate off your head and return to reality please.

[Kurkina]

Have to chime in one more time to clarify my last post, 2 posters feel "insulted" by my statements.

 

Wow, never before have I seen such a backhanded comment. You insult our opinion, then go to say you respect it? MAKE UP YOUR MIND

 

... good way to insult others opinions when they disagree with you but then you say that you respect others opinions. You can't have it both ways ...

 

I assume you are referring to the following:

 

My only guess as to why you respond the way that you do is that you may feel that if you defend our tyranical masters, you will somehow gain their favour. I understand that none of you would consciously define your motivations in this way, but subcounciously it is this boot-licking attitude that is at the heart of your responses, the desire to align yourselves with the powerful and thereby have a fraction of their glory bestowed upon you.

 

However, this attitude is not in the community's best interest.

 

This is an insult? I did not INSULT anybody's opinion, I analyzed people's motivation as best I could, because I still don't understand why the lot of your are so passionately defending BW. Since in my mind none of you have presented any real counter arguments to what I have stated beyond the fact that you believe what BW says, I assume that your position is emotional at its core, hence that analysis which some of you found insulting.

 

What I respect is your right to take BWs statements at face value and believe them, but I dont comprehend it.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Kurkina