Aries_cz Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 So "fiction" means "this doesn't have to make any damn sense, we can do whatever we want and it's cool no matter how much WHAT? it contains"? Actually, that is one description of fiction, so yes. But, most good fictions tend to rationalize their "what?"s in some way. So I am sure that Nico's age will be rationalized (especially since we have a very similar story in the game already in (12:00-15:30)), as will be plans of Valkorion and Vitiate. Another sign of good fiction is to not be predictable and not telling people everything before it is released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 So Valkorian is just another instance of recycled major NPC (see also Revan). . the term is "recurring villan" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstevenson Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Going to point out, it's very possible for Vitiate to be Valkorion. Vitiate has been around a long, long time, and it's a good bet he'd set up a back up plan in case either he lost control of the Sith Empire, or that the Republic was victorious in the war. So at the end of SoR when he's been restored to power by the deaths on Yavin he's stuck without a power base to complete his goals of killing everyone in the galaxy. To make matters worse the Empire and Republic have been cooperating to actively fight him, which means they aren't fighting eachother and fueling him anymore. Time to call in his back up plan and possess his puppet ruler. But surely this new Empire couldn't just come out of no where and curb stomp both Republic and Sith Empire. It's not like that's been completely established within the realm of possiblity previously in the canon. It's not like both Republic and Sith had been weakened from years of drawn out wars and infighting... oh wait. Yeah that's completely reasonable. And of course "Valkorion" wouldn't go around advertising he's going to whip out all life in the galaxy, he's already lost the support of one Empire because no one wanted to be apart of that. The final battle with Vitiate is clearly forshadowed in SoR, and Vitiate's habit for Xanatos Gambits have been shown through out the game. So it'd be rather weird for this big story turn not involve him. In summery, yeah, schemer is going to scheme. And any schemer is going to have more then one plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 the term is "recurring villan" Since we're back to this... there's a vast gulf between "recurring villain" and the same villain pulling the "you only thought you beat me, fools!" stunt over, and over, and over, and over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeKoCZ Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Since we're back to this... there's a vast gulf between "recurring villain" and the same villain pulling the "you only thought you beat me, fools!" stunt over, and over, and over, and over... While this wouldn't be that strange in a SW setting, is a narrative mistake they made since vanilla game. So now they have to stick with it. If the Sith Warrior would have minded his/her own business, we wouldn't have had SoR and RotE. You can't possibly ignore something which can't be killed going around the galaxy devouring planets like nothing happened. It looks like Agar.io, but with a story. Vitiate was pretty much stuck, then it got released, it started growing more and more and now the more balls he eats, the more he becomes strong. The only way to defeat it is becoming even stronger than him, which is hard at this point, so they'll pull some plot twists here and there and we'll probably finish the expansion with Vitiate killing himself by eating a balls with spines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) ? When you finish a story line why wouldn't you move to a new threat / villain? It'll get old fast if Vit is the only main villain we ever have. True, but when I say drop, I mean literally. If KoTFE wasn't tied to Vitiate, from a continuity perspective, it would be awkward maybe even awful because the Vitiate story is not complete. The fact that it is a continuation fo the Vitiate story makes KoTFE much more relevant and compelling. Edited September 28, 2015 by Rafaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 And, btw, why can't Valkorion be the one to consume Vitiate. Vitiate runs off to wildspace to regroup and runs into Valkorion. He tries the same thing again on Zakuul thinking is the is the greatest power in the universe. And in trying to do so, or in trying to take Valkorions body he finds more than his match and is consumed himself. Then... Valky has Vitiates power and knowledge and decides to conquer the Republic and Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 And, btw, why can't Valkorion be the one to consume Vitiate. Vitiate runs off to wildspace to regroup and runs into Valkorion. He tries the same thing again on Zakuul thinking is the is the greatest power in the universe. And in trying to do so, or in trying to take Valkorions body he finds more than his match and is consumed himself. Then... Valky has Vitiates power and knowledge and decides to conquer the Republic and Sith. That is actually a very interesting way of looking at things. Vitiate's power as eldritch abomination of Dark Side were significantly diminished by his defeat at the hands of Knight, and we do not know how much power he regained by all the deaths on Yavin and by consuming Ziost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 "Oh, I think a mistake has been made... But by whom?" -Valkorion when told he was the Sith Emperor. The more I think about it, the more it seems to me, that Valkorion took over Vitiate and not the otherway around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mubrak Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Given that Tenebrae (lat. gloom) like Vitiate is more like a typical Darth title describing his nature, Valkorion may be the original entity and Vitiate just a stray aspect, created by accident during Valkorion's quest for immortality. (ref. Nameless One and Transcended One) Edited September 28, 2015 by Mubrak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Given that Tenebrae (lat. gloom) like Vitiate is more like a typical Darth title describing his nature, Valkorion may be the original entity and Vitiate just a stray aspect, created by accident during Valkorion's quest for immortality. (ref. Nameless One and Transcended One) Interesting. Yes. I think it is very possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 It is possible that the writers could make it even worse though. Imagine 3 chapters in which Vitiate is the main enemy of the pierce with his children and followers laying waste to the galaxy. At the end of this he is defeated. There is then a mess of is he dead or is he not dead and then they release chapter 4 in which it is confirmed by both sides he is dead. Now threats are brought in such as a group of powerful force users, Hutts, greedy corporations. Then in Chapter 5 he is brought back as an all powerful gas cloud by someone that everyone thought was dead cause he wasn't really dead at all only everyone thought he was. But not to worry he is all powerful and still desires to destroy the galaxy, he unleashes this power against a world that had worshiped him as a god. Not too far fetched really his, Immortal and all Powerful that is pretty god like. So you have killed him, his come back after a would he wouldn't he moment and his started his conquest by taking control of a planet and then devouring it. Not to shabby as gods go. But then you have it turn out that his really an aging old man who has been raising a family in his really empire... Ok all following so far a God among the Sith following a proud line of dark lords of the Sith but turns out turns out Sith Jedi aren't what Star Wars is about and his a new faction that no one has ever heard of before or will ever hear of again in any of the cannon Star Wars material. And then this is where it could get really really bad, his killed at the end of Chapter 2. So about 2 hours into Chapter 6, this guy that was meant to be dead but was brought back by someone else who was meant to be dead, destroyed a planet, is killed really easily. Making it some what questionable why it was felt necessary to bring him back in the first place, why he was brought back as a world devouring force gas cloud that then takes the form of an old man who can easily be killed. If that was the case and the upcoming combat changes, would make you wonder if the writers and the combat team get some pay out if they can get the plug pulled on ToR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregthegen Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Am I the only one who wishes that I can rule along side Valkorian and fight against the Sith Empire and Galactic Republic after I choose the "kneel choice?: because In the Chapter 3 Preview they showed sky troopers saying Valkorian was dead (Im guessing went to another host body or killed by Arcann) And if they saved so much cash by focusing on one story instead of 7 more new ones then maybe we can play an alternate pro Eternal Empire story Post Chapter 2? Anyone think they went that route or that something is going to get effed up wither way and we end up frozen for 5 years? Anyway, this explains Vitiates disappearance for lengthy times being mentioned so promenantly in the pre SWTOR release Journals of master Gnost Dural. Anyway, finished the Warrior, Inquis Knight and Agent storylines, but going to have to reroll the Inquis and Knight bc I deleted them three years ago, kinda torn on the other classes, from what Ive heard Ive taken the best story classes in game already so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazeTomahawk Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Why does valkorian have to be vitiate in the first place? It's a huge universe. I'm sick of chasing Sauron across middle earth. Let me beat him and find a new villian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionAlpha Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Why does valkorian have to be vitiate in the first place? It's a huge universe. I'm sick of chasing Sauron across middle earth. Let me beat him and find a new villian The lore is about deception and captivating the mind by unimaginable twist. However that's a good writer. Recently things have been meh so we will see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 It is possible that the writers could make it even worse though. Imagine 3 chapters in which Vitiate is the main enemy of the pierce with his children and followers laying waste to the galaxy. At the end of this he is defeated. There is then a mess of is he dead or is he not dead and then they release chapter 4 in which it is confirmed by both sides he is dead. Now threats are brought in such as a group of powerful force users, Hutts, greedy corporations. Then in Chapter 5 he is brought back as an all powerful gas cloud by someone that everyone thought was dead cause he wasn't really dead at all only everyone thought he was. But not to worry he is all powerful and still desires to destroy the galaxy, he unleashes this power against a world that had worshiped him as a god. Not too far fetched really his, Immortal and all Powerful that is pretty god like. So you have killed him, his come back after a would he wouldn't he moment and his started his conquest by taking control of a planet and then devouring it. Not to shabby as gods go. But then you have it turn out that his really an aging old man who has been raising a family in his really empire... Ok all following so far a God among the Sith following a proud line of dark lords of the Sith but turns out turns out Sith Jedi aren't what Star Wars is about and his a new faction that no one has ever heard of before or will ever hear of again in any of the cannon Star Wars material. And then this is where it could get really really bad, his killed at the end of Chapter 2. So about 2 hours into Chapter 6, this guy that was meant to be dead but was brought back by someone else who was meant to be dead, destroyed a planet, is killed really easily. Making it some what questionable why it was felt necessary to bring him back in the first place, why he was brought back as a world devouring force gas cloud that then takes the form of an old man who can easily be killed. If that was the case and the upcoming combat changes, would make you wonder if the writers and the combat team get some pay out if they can get the plug pulled on ToR. I still think they should have spent a few more chapters on the war that every Republic npc in vanilla was like "It can't start again! It would be awful!" considering that when the war did restart we just kinda heard about it, did Corelliia and then that was it for the war storyline, despite the fact that RotHC pretty much teased that the Empire would at least hold the line and recover. Instead we get Vitiagod, force bipolar Revan, a new faction that doesn't even feel star wars-y, supposed genius Vitiate making the illogical decision to even make the Zakuul Empire and more bad decisions but people are fine with it because "Classic Bioware story telling!" and "You're the Outlander". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) And, btw, why can't Valkorion be the one to consume Vitiate. Vitiate runs off to wildspace to regroup and runs into Valkorion. He tries the same thing again on Zakuul thinking is the is the greatest power in the universe. And in trying to do so, or in trying to take Valkorions body he finds more than his match and is consumed himself. Then... Valky has Vitiates power and knowledge and decides to conquer the Republic and Sith. While I'd rather have seen KotFE delayed long enough to finally wrap up the Vitiate arc completely and satisfactorily, your musing there makes a lot more sense than Vitiate becoming Valkorion or whatever nonsense BW has probably come up with. Edited September 28, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myrdinn Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Oh God, he's the Star Wars Naraku! May the Force be with us all. More like the Star Wars version of Freeza. Still, I think The Eternal Empire is the attempt to make a Darksider Empire without the infighting the True Sith Empire suffers. Empy V found the third Star Forge, sent into the Maze to make some living room... after Empy V found a population malleable enough to turn them into a Darkside Fanatic Corps (without the traditional infighting from the Sith). I figure Vity was running around as Vity for a while... that's what the predecessor to Zash was doing in the Maze, etc. At some point, Vity found a colony world wherein he could corrupt and turn into the nucleus of an Empire that didn't have Sith in-fighting traditions, wait a couple of hundred years whilst also running the True Sith Empire, mix, mash, and viola. Evil Mastermind Empire, instead of Chaotic Stupid Empire. Kinda hoping for a "miah power is over ONE MILLION" moment, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Kinda hoping for a "miah power is over ONE MILLION" moment, too... The problem with this is that it basically makes Vitiate into a Star Wars Cthulhu, and Chulhu makes a terrible videogame antagonist becomes it's beyond anything we can relate to. Basically at this point Vitiate is soo powerful that giving him more power is meaningless plotwise because his power is already beyond anything a player is going to be able to relate to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 The problem with this is that it basically makes Vitiate into a Star Wars Cthulhu, and Chulhu makes a terrible videogame antagonist becomes it's beyond anything we can relate to. Basically at this point Vitiate is soo powerful that giving him more power is meaningless plotwise because his power is already beyond anything a player is going to be able to relate to. It really was going to take some sort of "learn about this ritual and get a bunch of Jedi to use it" or "go get this Mystical McGuffin and activate it" quest chain at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exly Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 True, but when I say drop, I mean literally. If KoTFE wasn't tied to Vitiate, from a continuity perspective, it would be awkward maybe even awful because the Vitiate story is not complete. The fact that it is a continuation fo the Vitiate story makes KoTFE much more relevant and compelling. I think that they should have made Valkorian Vitiate's secret appendence, and then they could have wrapped up the Vitiiate story by having Valkorian defeat him and then take his place as the supreme bad guy in the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I think that they should have made Valkorian Vitiate's secret appendence, and then they could have wrapped up the Vitiiate story by having Valkorian defeat him and then take his place as the supreme bad guy in the universe. I don't know. I think it would make more sense that Valky and Vitiate meet as equals and Valky takes him down taken everything from him including his identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankyBuschmann Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 This quote from the Jedi Knight ending really fits the situation. Emperor: You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 This quote from the Jedi Knight ending really fits the situation. Emperor: You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. So basically he ate Ziost and now he wishes to experience being an Emperor of a different Empire. Why? Because He Can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onegoldpls Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 In the end it won't be matter. Your brave character will kill him, then have lesbian sex with Lana Beniko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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