The Operative roll!!!

[mmmbuddah]

Hmm, so we take the strong aspect of a class; its best defense/escape, and put it on what is regarded as maybe the most OP class in PvP and a ranged one to boot giving it aspects of a melee class defense/escape and that is supposed to tell us about that one ability?

 

You missed the point entirely. Having 3 seconds of invincibility every 13 seconds is too much. That is nearly 15 seconds of invincibility per minute. They need to rework the roll, not get rid of it, but rework it.

[foxmob]

I don't really have a problem with the roll as an ability, then again I have a problem with the engine and how it can't properly handle it. Not sure if I should blame the engine but when this dudes roll they pop all over the place.

 

this pretty much sums up my experience with it. the engine or the basic client-server intereaction simply isn't up to snuff for this ability. it has some trouble with leaps, but it has TONS of trouble with rolls (sniper and especially op).

 

lethality just needs their off heal capabilities nerfed. and that's only a solo issue, but they are pretty effective healers in all dps matches. and they shouldn't be.

 

then again, I don't think dps should be able to guard in yolo. it just breaks the only remotely functional thing about yolo: role matching. if each team had a comparable skank heal/tank, it wouldn't be an issue, but one who throws on tank gear and guards in dps spec while the other team doesn't even have a tank AC...it's clearly counter to the fundamental variable of solo matchmaking. iunno. this just seems so ridiculously obvious to me. and then there's the fact that juggs can stance swap on a whim. other ACs that could guard can't recoup hp the way a jugg dps can...ugh. iunno.

Edited July 14, 2015 by foxmob

[RooRider]

OP is the most BS class their is. This is most certainly the case in the open world, as 1v1 a decent one can defeat anyone. This game has become a stealth infested sham.

 

Yes concealment ops and deception sins are the strongest 1v1 specs, but that doesn't necessarily make them the best specs for 4v4 or 8v8. They have their strengths, but they also have their weaknesses. They are great in 8s for stealing nodes, stopping caps and burning healers, but I can't remember the last time I saw one of these specs top the dps in a wz.

You see so many of these same stupid threads; tanks are too strong, heals are too strong, premades ruin pvp... The funny thing is a good stealth player can single-handedly overcome all of these other so-called problems. They can turn the weaker team into the winning team. Assassins and operatives, more than any other class, validate objectives based pvp in this game. If they didn't posses the strengths that they do, 8s would simply come down to is which team is better at death-matching. Stealth classes add so many more variables into objectives based pvp, which keeps the game interesting.

[MrGoldsilver]

So I guess we could say...

 

The OP is complaining about OPs being OP? (Though I suppose it would be better if he was complaining about them in OPs, not Pvp...)

[Technohic]

You missed the point entirely. Having 3 seconds of invincibility every 13 seconds is too much. That is nearly 15 seconds of invincibility per minute. They need to rework the roll, not get rid of it, but rework it.

 

Its far down on the list IMO. Isolated it sounds bad but big picture on the class it's about the only thing that keeps it from being worthless and the class is not unbalanced overall in the current state of balance. Its like when someone complains about snipers uptime in entrench. Sounds broken for how often they are cc immune but when you look at the class it really isn't an issu . With either ability, if you put it on a sorc you are making a terrible point.

[stephenalandavie]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

[foxmob]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

 

just keeps rolling along.

[Chimerako]

I'll admit I when like 20 matches without dying in a leath op. Actual dps isn't that great and dot spread is horrible but the off heals are wonderfull. Hutt ball is the only area where it's a huge advantage. Time the roll correctly and it's unstoppable. Though force speed and hydrolic overdrive are pretty simular.

[Fellow-Canadian]

You missed the point entirely. Having 3 seconds of invincibility every 13 seconds is too much. That is nearly 15 seconds of invincibility per minute. They need to rework the roll, not get rid of it, but rework it.

 

Is it so hard to wait 2 seconds after a scrapper roll before you use cc or damage? It's seriously just like one global cooldown. What's wrong with countering the roll with a root/stun during a critical burst/cc phase?

[Hirchart]

If you cannot stop a concealment operative/scrapper scoundrel from scoring because he has 2 rolls every 10 seconds you don't know how to play Huttball. Or the game in general. Wait until they have used them. Hardstun them and kill them. Or firepull them. Knock/pull them off. It's not that hard really.

 

No surprises I recognise some of the names in this thread. Don't know how to play, get rekt on a daily basis and go cry on the forums "nerf nerf! it's OP! I can't win! Must be OP! nerf nerf!".

Edited July 15, 2015 by Hirchart

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

If you cannot stop a concealment operative/scrapper scoundrel from scoring because he has 2 rolls every 10 seconds you don't know how to play Huttball. Or the game in general. Wait until they have used them. Hardstun them and kill them. Or firepull them. Knock/pull them off. It's not that hard really.

 

No surprises I recognise some of the names in this thread. Don't know how to play, get rekt on a daily basis and go cry on the forums "nerf nerf! it's OP! I can't win! Must be OP! nerf nerf!".

 

all u need is a dps guard, to be immortal, did it with my mate, a jugg veng, switchedto soresu, guarded me, well roll roll immunities roll roll 5 gol in less than 2 minutes, but ok is completely fine it will become my main, so pls l2p op is fine

[mephistosaurus]

Oh good, I thought the weekly "Nerf Operatives" thread's deadline was going to be missed this week.

 

+1 This lol

[Hirchart]

all u need is a dps guard, to be immortal, did it with my mate, a jugg veng, switchedto soresu, guarded me, well roll roll immunities roll roll 5 gol in less than 2 minutes, but ok is completely fine it will become my main, so pls l2p op is fine

Yeah, a guard will save you from a firepull Moreover, if the enemy team knows how to do damage a skank jug will drop within seconds. Your logic is off and your argument flawed. Just one anecdotical experience is not evidence.

 

Also, I have never said that concealment not is very viable in huttballs. Surely, you can score quickly and win with a 6-0 in minutes as concealment in a premade - esspecially if the enemy team consists of pugs that do not know how to counter it. Yet, that does not, by any means, imply that rolling is overpowered.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Hirchart

[xX-Archangel-Xx]

Yeah, a guard will save you from a firepull Moreover, if the enemy team knows how to do damage a skank jug will drop within seconds. Your logic is off and your argument flawed. Just one anecdotical experience is not evidence.

 

Also, I have never said that concealment not is very viable in huttballs. Surely, you can score quickly and win with a 6-0 in minutes as concealment in a premade - esspecially if the enemy team consists of pugs that do not know how to counter it. Yet, that does not, by any means, imply that rolling is overpowered.

 

u need to understand we are talking about one skill, not pre made vs non pre made, actually roll immunities is op, needs to be slightly nerfed, problem is i, you, we all know bioware do not understand the word slight, if they are gonna to nerf it, will be bring neat to uselesness as always.

[Hirchart]

u need to understand we are talking about one skill, not pre made vs non pre made, actually roll immunities is op, needs to be slightly nerfed, problem is i, you, we all know bioware do not understand the word slight, if they are gonna to nerf it, will be bring neat to uselesness as always.

Lmfao, what are you talking about? You are saying you can carry an entire huttball alone by just rolling? What server are you on? Sounds like a party

 

Having two rolls with immunity does not achieve anything on its own. It is was OP before it got reduced by a maximum of two and got a CD. It is a perfectly fine ability.

[foxmob]

Yeah, a guard will save you from a firepull .

no. a guard won't save you. but horrible game engine and/or server-client communication will. when an op rolls up one of those slight incline ramps, it looks like he got knocked off the platform and his actual location is a complete guess. did he roll b2b? or is he still running now? in other words, can I pull him? or is he immune? or is he los'd?

 

it also looks like they can roll off the corner of the top ramp and avoid the fire completely but I honestly cannot tell b/c the video is so consistently unreliable when either agent AC rolls across an elevation change.

 

not an overpowered issue. just...need to change it to a force speed run for 12m? iunno. I've never had this much trouble playing on or against a movement ability. it's funny that phasewalk doesn't have this issue at all. I think it's because there's a set point at which the sin will port to but the roll needs to be calculated in real time, and it always falls behind when complex calculations (elevation changes) are required? iunno. just guessing at this point. but it is broken in the sense that the game doesn't function properly.

[tomius]

It is a perfectly fine ability.

 

Pretty sure no one would be saying that if assassins got shroud for the duration of force speed, except it also is immune to white damage and effects, has a 10 sec CD. And that's not with being able to use it twice.

Edited July 15, 2015 by tomius

[Loomi]

I forgot you guys have to have the upper hand to win. That's cool. It is an over powered move and needs to be addressed for "Balance" sake.

 

It's scoundrels who need the upper hand, operatives use tactical advantage

 

You, sir, just won the internet. *standing ovation*

[Benets]

This roll is stupid in it's core, it isnt a roll, it's a teletransport, a blink, that they call roll.

 

That's the problem of having dumb DEVs.

[Loomi]

That's the problem of having dumb DEVs.

 

That just your default excuse for everything? Seems to me you have a loose grasp on game mechanics, in that case.

 

That's the problem of having dumb players

[mmmbuddah]

Pretty sure no one would be saying that if assassins got shroud for the duration of force speed, except it also is immune to white damage and effects, has a 10 sec CD. And that's not with being able to use it twice.

 

This, so much this. I find it hilarious that people think 15 seconds of invincibility per minute is fine (ok 14 but wahtever). In case you cant do math, that is 25 percent of the game they can be invincible.

[mmmbuddah]

Is it so hard to wait 2 seconds after a scrapper roll before you use cc or damage? It's seriously just like one global cooldown. What's wrong with countering the roll with a root/stun during a critical burst/cc phase?

 

So per minute I gotta wait around 16 seconds . Seems legit.

[Joesixxpack]

So per minute I gotta wait around 16 seconds . Seems legit.

 

Because it is, despite your choosing to describe it in only the most dramatic way possible.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Joesixxpack

[Glower]

That just your default excuse for everything? Seems to me you have a loose grasp on game mechanics, in that case.

 

That's the problem of having dumb players

 

If your engine can't handle your new awesome ability adequately you won't use it, right? Right?

[jauvtus]

How much dmg immunites classes have?

Jugg: 3s (5s with utility) every 60s, but vulnerable to melee white dmg (5%/8,3% uptime)

Mara: 4s (6s with utility) every 180s (150s with utility), but only 99% dmg red, still killable at low health (2,22%/4% uptime)

Sorc: 10s every 180s (150s with utility) (5,55%/6,66% uptime)

Sin: 3s (5s with utility) every 60s , but vulnerable to white dmg; with stealth utility up to 2s every 90s (5%/8,3% uptime; +additional 2.22% uptime, meaning 7,22%/10,5% uptime)

PT: none

Merc: 6 stack immunity for 1 discipline every 45s, vulnerable to white dmg

Sniper: 3s every 60s, but vulnerable to yellow dmg (5% uptime)

 

Op: 3s every 60s (~40s with utility and getting attacked), but vulnerable yellow dmg; with stealth utility up to 2s every 90s (5%/7,5% uptime+additional 2,22% uptime, meaning 7,22%/9,72% uptime)

+concealment: 3s every 13s, NOT VULNERABLE TO ANYTHING (23% uptime!!!!, combined with evasion: up to 30%/32,5% uptime!!!!)

 

 

Every class (who has any kind of immunity) have much smaller uptime, and NEITHER of them are INVINCIBLE (except sorc, but they are sitting in 1 place and cant do anything, conceal can spend some of the immunity freely acting) all are vulnerable to at least 1 form of dmg. Dont get started with roots and stuns and rolling breaking rotation or any other crap, concealment roll is broken!

Edited July 16, 2015 by jauvtus