Merc/Mando PvP: anti-focus, DCDs, immunities

[foxmob]

At least make chaff flare usable while stunned.

 

if we're talking about tweaking extant abilities, chaff flares is fine it's on a VERY short cd (45s), and it's also the most powerful cd. reactive shield is fine. but KO. man. that thing...I can think of at least 4 instances where one opponent has burst through my KO with one attack.

 

I like what they did with pyro/plasmatech PT: 30% defense chance while active. but what I would prefer to see is just a straight 4s of 100% defense (aka: dodge) and the same heal to 40% max. OR give up the pretense of this hot up to % nonesense, and just turn it into a medpac that you can pop at any time for a 30% heal regardless of your current hp (nothing else piggy backed onto it).

[TheJollyRogers]

As someone who primarily plays Innovative Ordinance, I'd like if Chaff Flare wasn't so rng on whether I was going to resist an attack or not. If it was more like Decoy with charges but definitive resistance, that'd be wonderful.

 

I'd also like it if Kolto Overload gave me 10% of my health back as it kicked in so I don't get destroyed immediately despite using it. It would be also fantastic if I could inherently use it while stunned (I know that's a heroic utility, but you cannot play Mercenary without Thrill of the Hunt and Stabilized Armor. We have 0% choice in our Heroic utilities).

 

With 3.3, IO gets an instant cast Rapid Scan after Mag Shot. It would be nice if this did +100% healing to be about the same as Healing Scan now. I constantly use Power Surge + Healing Scan + Emergency Scan to get through burst. With Rapid Scan replacing Healing Scan, my ability to deal with burst will be worse in 3.3.

Edited July 7, 2015 by TheJollyRogers

[klham]

Signal Jammer:

CD: 2 min

If activated, you can't be targeted for 10 seconds, but you are still vulnerable to AoE effects. While Signal Jammer is active you are immune to CC effects. Dealing direct damage or direct healing of allies breaks the effect prematurely. (can heal himself)

 

Heroic Utility: Revitalizing armor:

While Signal Jammer is active, you regenerate 5% health each second. Additionally while Signal Jammer is active and for 4 seconds after its ended, you are immune to DoT effects.

 

This is a merge of sorc bubble and operative stealth. You cant suffer direct dmg like sorcs, but aoe can still hurt you (you will not be invisible, so possible to try to finish you), like ops. You are immune to cc, like sorcs, but you can break this whole buff by doing anything, like both classes, also you dont have any after-effect (like Enduring Bastions for sorcs). Also with utility, you can have some self heals (not h2f, like sorcs, but dont need to put dots on yourself, like ops, if they want healing) and a cleanse and immunity, which, unlike sorc or op, last longer than the bubble/stealth. Ofc it resets your aggro in pve, like other 2 abilities.

 

I like this - imo it would synergize well with Hold the Line. It would drive people crazy in Huttball, but not so much as the Op roll

[TUXs]

Signal Jammer:

CD: 2 min

If activated, you can't be targeted for 10 seconds, but you are still vulnerable to AoE effects. While Signal Jammer is active you are immune to CC effects. Dealing direct damage or direct healing of allies breaks the effect prematurely. (can heal himself)

 

Heroic Utility: Revitalizing armor:

While Signal Jammer is active, you regenerate 5% health each second. Additionally while Signal Jammer is active and for 4 seconds after its ended, you are immune to DoT effects.

 

This is a merge of sorc bubble and operative stealth. You cant suffer direct dmg like sorcs, but aoe can still hurt you (you will not be invisible, so possible to try to finish you), like ops. You are immune to cc, like sorcs, but you can break this whole buff by doing anything, like both classes, also you dont have any after-effect (like Enduring Bastions for sorcs). Also with utility, you can have some self heals (not h2f, like sorcs, but dont need to put dots on yourself, like ops, if they want healing) and a cleanse and immunity, which, unlike sorc or op, last longer than the bubble/stealth. Ofc it resets your aggro in pve, like other 2 abilities.

 

I suggested this very thing myself...although my suggestion wasn't quite as detailed as yours...I love the details of it! This is exactly what I believe we could use.

[Jadescythe]

Literally unstoppable ball carrier in Huttball unless you have enough AoEs to kill them. But they are also gaining 5% of their health back every second, so you have to do more damage than that. We won't even bring up the fact that you can't stop them from capping a node unless you use AoE or your actual interrupt (which may not work if they are interrupt immune at the time).

 

It's basically an Enraged Defense that does not require the other team to attack you for the heals and has 0 counterplay as well as CC immunity. If a Jugg pops ED, you can just CC them and/or ignore them and they will just die when it wears off.

 

If you want to be untargetable and CC immune, then no healing available through utilities or using any ability breaks the effect early and the healing from utility needs to be reduced (half your health is more than the Sorc bubble gives). Probably reduce the time to 6 seconds or so max. Stops you from being focused and allows a healer to top you off or time for you to run away and heal yourself.

[TUXs]

Literally unstoppable ball carrier in Huttball unless you have enough AoEs to kill them.

Obviously I would assume we'd drop the ball like a sorc/sage would...so...no issue here.

[Technohic]

10 seconds would be too long for node capping as well.

[TUXs]

10 seconds would be too long for node capping as well.

 

Again, assuming this works like any other high powered DCD, interacting with a node would break the effect.

[Technohic]

Again, assuming this works like any other high powered DCD, interacting with a node would break the effect.

 

Ah I missed in the description where he said that doing anything will break it.

 

Still think that is too much healing over the extent of time it has and no on the DOT effect immunity after it ends. And he said cleans, but to be clear, no purge.

 

Just taking parts of the best anti focus tools in game and somehow adding to them just seems a bit over the top.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Technohic

[Zoom_VI]

Change decoy too work as follows

 

Activating Chaff flare absorbs all force and tech damage for 6 seconds.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[Floplag]

Change decoy too work as follows

 

Activating Chaff flare absorbs all force and tech damage for 6 seconds.

 

another great idea... simple and effective

[TUXs]

Change decoy too work as follows

 

Activating Chaff flare absorbs all force and tech damage for 6 seconds.

So...a bubble?!

 

The idea was to have an ability different than others...but I'd be happy with whatever.

[Zoom_VI]

Arsenal is inferrior to MM, but...

 

• MM is harder to play well (all snipers are harder to play well, imo)
  
• they aren't that much better that a weaker player is going to be better than a stronger player
  
• the superiority of MM is only obvious when two players of superior skill are maxing out the specs' potential
  
• even in the latter case, Arsenal is not worthless.
  
• in yolo, the worth of either AC entirely depends on the rng of their teammates and opponents, but if you're saying that they're NOT viable in grp, then (as a merc myself) I have to question any and everything you say about the class, because I think that's a load of crap.
  

 

really though...saying arsenal isn't viable in grp is like the juggs whining that they suck in yolo. you're competitive in yolo. you want suck? queue up with a merc, sniper or mara. you're ok. not great. ok. ok is viable. deal with it.

[*]the superiority of MM is only obvious when two players of superior skill are maxing out the specs' potential

Reread what you wrote and tell me where you went wrong.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Zoom_VI

[foxmob]

Reread what you wrote and tell me where you went wrong.

 

I didn't go wrong anywhere. I simply said that one class is better than the other at exactly the same thing. having two classes do exactly the same thing to exactly the same degree of effectiveness is unrealistic. of course if you can max the potential of either one, you're going to take the one that has a greater potential. but there's a "best in role" for every role. that doesn't mean every other spec that also plays that role is "not viable." you put a better player on the merc and the merc will be better. they aren't ridiculously far apart. hatred is ridiculously far apart from any other "dot" spec. arsenal is in the same ball park as MM. have a wave to lighting in little league.

Edited July 7, 2015 by foxmob

[foxmob]

So...a bubble?!

 

The idea was to have an ability different than others...but I'd be happy with whatever.

 

that's a lot closer to dodge/evasion than sorc bubble. bubble is capped. it bursts. this one is more like..well...shroud. actually. and there are only so many things you can do. recoup hp, DR, immunities.

[Floplag]

uh uh, and when I said the exact same idea (well to be fair I said 5 seconds not 6) you said it was a horrible idea. You are bad, just accept it and go play hello kitty.

 

ive called for many changed to chaff flare including a possible blind/stun so i think you are confusing me with someone else or just trolling. Chaff after all does deflect damage away so this makes sense.

id like to see what context i said it was bad in if i did cause i dont know why i would of considering what ive said in the past

either way how that equates to good bad or whatever makes no sense so... whatever, good luck with that i guess

[alexsamma]

I didn't go wrong anywhere. I simply said that one class is better than the other at exactly the same thing. having two classes do exactly the same thing to exactly the same degree of effectiveness is unrealistic. of course if you can max the potential of either one, you're going to take the one that has a greater potential. but there's a "best in role" for every role. that doesn't mean every other spec that also plays that role is "not viable." you put a better player on the merc and the merc will be better. they aren't ridiculously far apart. hatred is ridiculously far apart from any other "dot" spec. arsenal is in the same ball park as MM. have a wave to lighting in little league.

 

And arsenal is superior vs hard switch comps because of the cleanse and as someone who has experience tanking for both a sniper and merc/mando the merc is much easier to keep up vs a dot pressure comp than a sniper is.

 

Sniper is only superior in hard swap comps because of the cc immunity, the difference in damage is so minimal that the merc/mando's increased utility would make the better option if not for entrench.

[jauvtus]

Ah I missed in the description where he said that doing anything will break it.

 

Still think that is too much healing over the extent of time it has and no on the DOT effect immunity after it ends. And he said cleans, but to be clear, no purge.

 

Just taking parts of the best anti focus tools in game and somehow adding to them just seems a bit over the top.

 

Maybe I wasn't deatailed enough, but ofc you drop huttball, cant cap or do things like that during the effect (just like how it works with sorc bubble and op stealth). Sorcs' heal with bubble doesnt end with bubble, they get Enduring Bastion and significantly higher healing. But ok, remove dot immune parts of the suggestion,

Edited July 7, 2015 by jauvtus

[klham]

I like the ideas around Chaff Flare. Reworking an existing ability by adding-on features that already exist somewhere in the game probably entails less work for developers, and therefore is "low hanging fruit" that could be tuned as needed without radically impacting class balance in unforeseen ways. Turning Chaff Flare into a brief but heavy-duty damage sink with a short AoE mez, and usable when stunlocked, would do wonders for us. Edited July 7, 2015 by klham

[foxmob]

And arsenal is superior vs hard switch comps because of the cleanse and as someone who has experience tanking for both a sniper and merc/mando the merc is much easier to keep up vs a dot pressure comp than a sniper is.

 

Sniper is only superior in hard swap comps because of the cc immunity, the difference in damage is so minimal that the merc/mando's increased utility would make the better option if not for entrench.

 

they do hit harder. but as I said, it's in the same ballpark. I don't mind crinn arguing for more dps for arsenal to make them equal to snipers, but I have a huge issue with ppl saying they simply aren't viable. they're not ideal, but there's only EVER one "ideal." they're certainly viable.

 

and just cruising through the last 24 hours of this thread, it seems the players whining about them not being viable in 4's...want to give them better DCDs as if that has anything to do with why snipers are better in grp in the first place. it's not. it's just martyr syndrome because they have zero self sufficiency in yolo.

[TheJollyRogers]

just cruising through the last 24 hours of this thread, it seems the players whining about them not being viable in 4's...want to give them better DCDs as if that has anything to do with why snipers are better in grp in the first place. it's not. it's just martyr syndrome because they have zero self sufficiency in yolo.

 

I did note this. I'm pretty happy with my damage. Maybe an easier time setting up IO, but we do quite excellent damage.

 

It's just the bonkers, full-focused damage train against us that we don't have many answers to.

Edited July 8, 2015 by TheJollyRogers

[Lhancelot]

Admittedly, I gave up on this class. Countless people have offered countless ideas to improve it, and there seems to be nothing in the works to do anything suggested.

 

Take my advice, play one of the viable, fun classes instead of playing a class that requires 10 times the work to be just as effective as a "FOTM" class, and just wait. Wait for the class to get buffed, eventually.

 

As for now, after playing extensively on a healing merc, healing ops... Months I did so, I went back to my sage and sorc. It is mindboggling how much easier, and streamlined this class (sage/sorc) is for healing.

 

Yeah, ops healers are good. Merc healer can be good in regs. Sage/sorc heals? GREAT in regs or 4v4s. Period. For a change of pace, I like to play the sage and scoundrel healer, but the commando healer is on the shelf.

 

 

My commando healer requires so much thought process on using defensive cooldowns to survive, particularly anytime I am focused. There are no innate abilities that enable me to survive or escape a focus unless I pop a ton of defensive cooldowns, adrenals, etc.

 

On top of that, due to the commandos lack of survivability, the ONLY SPEC for commando/merc healers that can manage focus is when they pick ALL utilities that center around energy shield.

 

It's ridiculous, boring, and stupid that basically the healing commando/merc class in PVP has to center their entire gameplay around ENERGY SHIELD UTILITIES!

 

Energy shield is fair, but it's not very fun in PVP, and to have to strengthen it with every utility choice to make it effective enough to make the class viable while focused is not my cup of tea. Others might like it, I do not.

 

Do yourself a favor, play other healing classes until this one gets attention. As it stands, if you choose to play this, just know that your skill and energy if put into a more cohesive class would make you that much better and have that much more fun. You'll be rewarded with much better output and results.

[foxmob]

i only run healer spec in regs, but I do hear you about being forced to buff shield. it kills mobility but the fact of the matter is merc healer can't ever escape combat so mobility is meh.

[TheJollyRogers]

I feel like that's basically our utilities summed up. "Buff energy shield so it's a totally terrible DCD." -25% damage on a 2 minute cooldown is pretty lame.

 

I would prefer a solution that isn't putting another ability on my bars. We have several weak DCDs. They should be the abilities that are looked at.

 

To survive a concentrated burst, I have to:

Jet Boost > Chaff Flare > Hydraulic Override > Energy Shield (w/ +20% healing) > Warzone Adrenal > Power Surge > Healing Scan > Emergency Scan. If I'm still the target, add Kolto Overload and Warzone Medpac.

 

As you can imagine, I'm out of cooldowns after this. If I have a tank or a healer, I don't have to go through this absurd rotation of pressing 8 (potentially 10) buttons to hopefully get through burst and can properly rotate defensives. However, that's not the case a lot of the time.

Edited July 8, 2015 by TheJollyRogers

[klham]

I feel like that's basically our utilities summed up. "Buff energy shield so it's a totally terrible DCD." -25% damage on a 2 minute cooldown is pretty lame.

 

I would prefer a solution that isn't putting another ability on my bars. We have several weak DCDs. They should be the abilities that are looked at.

 

To survive a concentrated burst, I have to:

Jet Boost > Chaff Flare > Hydraulic Override > Energy Shield (w/ +20% healing) > Warzone Adrenal > Power Surge > Healing Scan > Emergency Scan. If I'm still the target, add Kolto Overload and Warzone Medpac.

 

As you can imagine, I'm out of cooldowns after this. If I have a tank or a healer, I don't have to go through this absurd rotation of pressing 8 (potentially 10) buttons to hopefully get through burst and can properly rotate defensives. However, that's not the case a lot of the time.

 

I wouldn't necessarily object to a new ability, but your objection makes sense given the button-crazy "survival rotation" that we're all familiar with, and which you describe above (add Hold the Line in there). We have to literally blow every single cooldown at once as soon as we're cornered, and still fall fast (especially if we're stunned again through our DCDs - holding out for a full resolve bar before using the stun-break typically isn't worth it with this AC). There's no complexity, such as the intelligent DCD management that is required of Guardian Tanks, for example. Guardians are a good example of clearly differentiated, powerful DCDs that each have a distinct purpose - a Guardian who blows them all at once is not being effective and it will show. More often than not, we have to empty our whole bag of tricks in one flurry of buttons.

Edited July 8, 2015 by klham