PvP tanks are mainly damage sinks for your own team, and disruptors of enemy dps. This means the tank guard-swaps on vulnerable friendlies (usually your healer, but also squishy dps teammates), while simultaneously disrupting enemy dps any way s/he can. This includes managing single-target and AoE taunts as well as the class-specific crowd control and debuff toolkit all tanks have. It's not for everyone; good tanks have high situational awareness, seldom 'tunnel', swap guard and targets frequently, and know they're not dps. A tank who strays from objectives to chase down a healer with his/her nerf bat is doing it wrong - that's the dps' job. Also, there's no glory - dps heroes get bragging rights but never the tank. A tank playing (and geared) like a tank will have only moderate damage but high protection numbers by the end of a full-length war zone. High protection numbers are probably the hardest earned of all the columns on the scoreboard. Ofc the tank's role changes in Huttball, where a tank ball carrier can taunt but shouldn't guard squishy team mates while s/he has the ball, and also when a tank is guarding a node, where the role is to stay alive long enough to delay a cap until help arrives.

I like it, but it still feels like the bargain basement mobility fix relative to everyone else. Smoke Screen should probably be included by default and the deluxe version should break roots and purge movement impairing effects (we're the most leap-&-root--susceptible class...put of few leapers in a warzone and Rocket Out become a moot point most of the time because the roots are constant). I'm ok with its uni-directionality (backwards only) given its short cooldown. But I don't see it altering the existing power balance or lessening the merc/mandos status as the primary focus target of choice. Thoughts?

This, and marginal improvements are quickly mooted by buffs to other classes in follow-up patches. Third-party websites providing commentary on the state of SWTOR PvP have long noted that mercs/commandos have the weakest cooldowns of any class. This is why the class has been at the bottom of the PvP hierarchy for the entire lifetime of the game, and will always be the primary focus target of choice in any team death match scenario.

I'm starting to reach this conclusion. In addition to the "traditional" commando/merc weaknesses, the spec is severely resource constrained. It also lacks good utilities. Compare to Sage's Rescue and Force Bubble, for example. Even on my Sage in dps spec, regularly bubbling of the team lands me at least 200K heals by the end of a typical match with almost zero effort. There's really no comparison. Everything is harder on a commando, which is why I like the Commando/Merc, but there's no doubt it's a severely hobbled class, and has been for most of the lifetime of the game.

I agree. I don't know why some classes persist in an over-tuned state for so long while one class in particular continually gets meager table scraps and has their small gains almost immediately mooted by buffs to other classes.

Agree. There seems to be a preference to give this class a meager hodgepodge of one-off tricks in lieu of a viable escape mechanic. None of them are all that effective even when popped all at once in a flurry of sequenced button-mashing (I've done that hail-mary suvival rotation so many times it's in my fingers' muscle memory). ...And I don't know what's happened to Electro-net - I recently watched an assassin shrug off TWO simultaneous electronets plus the dps rotations of two geared DPS commandos focusing their fire. On the hypothetical question of the AC's future potential O.P.-ness if given this or that ability, I'm not really that worried about the prospect of Merc/Mandos having their own brief turn in the "O.P." sunshine at this point. We haven't had that yet (other classes have had a several rounds of O.P.-ness.). I'd like to see a good solid fix to the class, something that shows they mean it, and then have it incrementally adjusted as need subsequently. In fact, an interval of O.P.-ness might be needed just to dispell the "free kill" stigma of the AC for good.

I really like your idea. It provides some of the advantages of the other anti-focus tools, without being overpowered (in that the user does not vanish from sight altogether and is still visually traceable while it's active). I also imagine it would be more easily implemented than some of the other ideas since it makes use of existing abilities and mechanics. IMO it should be usable when stunned (and thus constitutes a second stun-break? Or should it share the cooldown?). We're the most stun-able and controllable AC in the game, so that's an important detail imho.

Would be interested to know this too (I've transferred some toons there). The big Imp guild was 'Taint' on Harbinger but haven't seen them around anywhere yet, not sure if it's because of transfers or just inactivity. Edit: and the Republic LGBT guild on Harbinger is 'Rough Trade'. Seems to to still have active members there so Taint is probably still around too. Will keep an eye out on Shadowlands too, since toons are moving around a lot these days. There's also The Stonewall Council http://www.stonewallcouncil.com/

I wouldn't necessarily object to a new ability, but your objection makes sense given the button-crazy "survival rotation" that we're all familiar with, and which you describe above (add Hold the Line in there). We have to literally blow every single cooldown at once as soon as we're cornered, and still fall fast (especially if we're stunned again through our DCDs - holding out for a full resolve bar before using the stun-break typically isn't worth it with this AC). There's no complexity, such as the intelligent DCD management that is required of Guardian Tanks, for example. Guardians are a good example of clearly differentiated, powerful DCDs that each have a distinct purpose - a Guardian who blows them all at once is not being effective and it will show. More often than not, we have to empty our whole bag of tricks in one flurry of buttons.

I like the ideas around Chaff Flare. Reworking an existing ability by adding-on features that already exist somewhere in the game probably entails less work for developers, and therefore is "low hanging fruit" that could be tuned as needed without radically impacting class balance in unforeseen ways. Turning Chaff Flare into a brief but heavy-duty damage sink with a short AoE mez, and usable when stunlocked, would do wonders for us.

I like this - imo it would synergize well with Hold the Line. It would drive people crazy in Huttball, but not so much as the Op roll

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I see what you're saying now. I guess the advantage of opting for an auto-focus trick over a more encompassing suite of buffs is that there is less chance of disrupting PvE balance, and less chance of inadvertently upsetting class balance overall, but I agree that a cookie-cutter solution like a sage bubble or stealth-out would be disappointing and inconsistent with Merc/Mando style and gameplay. That's why I mentioned some of the earlier ideas re. a jetpack-enabled escape that allows a Merc/Mando to regain range effectively, or a KB + root that might be linked to Adrenaline Rush and which can be activated even if stunlocked.

I know, I participated in those early discussions. I was hoping to get a fresh conversation going, and maybe revisit some of those early ideas in light of the improvements that have been made to the AC since that time (and in light of changes to other classes as well). Waiting for the Devs to reveal some sort of master plan as a prelude to the discussion is a bit of a conversation-ender, because I don't think it's going to happen at this point. Imho it's probably more productive to focus the discussion on incremental quality-of-life improvements that are consistent with earlier improvements to the AC, and on par with what they've already implemented with some other ACs.

Getting back to anti-focus abilities, I'd be interested in hearing ideas from Commando/Merc players about what a good anti-focus PvP ability would be, consistent with the overall feel, style, and handling of the AC. Some time ago, a popular idea was a jetpack-enabled escape - basically a leap with a maximum distance in a direction of the player's choosing (some felt this fit with Merc lore more closely than the Commando). It could either function as an airborne roll, or it could entail dropping the reticle on an area of the map within LoS (like passing in Huttball) to activate the ability. This would synergize well with electro-net. A more passive anti-focus trick might be an ability that results in an automatic AoE knockback + root triggered when taking a certain level of damage, perhaps tied to Adrenaline Rush (the root would be required because the standard KB only helps to set up the gap-closing abilities of opponents). This solution would also make Merc/Commandos slightly less vulnerable to DPS stealth ganking. Thoughts?

No one is whining. I was responding to someone making the comparison between the two ACs, specifically the assertion that since PTs don't have an anti-focus trick then Commando/Mercs don't need one either. My original post argued that this is a must-have improvement, and that stronger DCDs and some immunities would be nice-to-have. I disagree that PTs and Mercs have the same resistances and survivability. Range is only an advantage if you can maintain and regain it, and Commando/Mercs are inferior to the other casting classes in this regard. GS/Sniper has immunity to gap-closers and controlling effects, and can instantly re-establish range, and sorc/sages are almost as slippery and can re-establish range easily (but share the Commando's susceptibility to gap-closing leaps and pulls). Some time ago, discussions around improvement of the class focused on buffing its "turret class" capabilities along the lines of GS/Sniper (a frequent suggestion was the proc'ing of an entrench-like ability with immunities and dmg-restance that stacked the longer a player maintained a stationary position, and some wanted this to also include an area-of-effect buff to team mates like the GC/Sniper dome to give the AC a bit more team utility). The Devs took the AC in a different direction by improving its mobility and giving it some good kiting tools, making Commando/Merc gameplay more dynamic. These were good improvements. As I said, for a while we were almost there in terms of being competitive. I'd like to see something that builds upon the direction that the Devs established for the AC when they implemented those earlier incremental improvements. It will make a huge difference for those of us still trying to make this AC work in high-end PvP.

Well the relevant 'context' here is that Commando/Merc is universally regarded as a free kill and primary focus target of choice, and VG/PT is not. I don't know what you're suggesting to reverse (or at least ameliorate) that reality. An anti-focus trick of some sort is the obvious solution. Long before there was ever a Scoundrel/Op roll in the game, I suggested that the Commando be given a dive-&-roll maneuver. I wouldn't want to see anything like the sorc bubble (force barrier) replicated since it was a cheesy solution to a problem with the class (although it did accomplish the goal of forcing a target-switch). I'd like to see something consistent with the existing feel and "charisma" of the class.

As has been pointed out ad nauseum, VG/PT has so much baked-in resistances, is so mobile, and has so many utilities, that any comparison with Commando/Merc is meaningless. A geared and half-decent VG/PT can stick to a Commando/Merc like glue and burn him down, while the Commando/Merc struggles to get through 2-4 rotations before going down while merely denting the VG/PT. There's no comparison (and yes, I've taken out plenty of VG/PTs on my Commando/Merc, but they were either under-geared or made obvious mistakes that a good PT doesn't make). A good PT will beat a good Merc just about every time, all other factors being equal.

We were getting close to being high-level PvP-viable for a brief interval, but now the proliferation of melée roots/snares and immunities have mooted our previous gains. I think the needs of the Advanced Class are fairly straight forward. At the top of the list is one solid anti-focus ability - this is a must have to save us from being the obvious arena bait we currently are. In the nice-to-have category are decent defensive cooldowns (we've always been lacking in that department: we have too few, and those we have are mediocre), and some immunities. We're the most 'controllable' AC in the game - we're the most leapable, force-pushable, and stun-able class with nothing to counter but the always-too-late Resolution White Bar....on top of this, our KB's, single stun, single-target looooong-cast mez are readily countered by any number of immunities possessed by other classes. So in this order, imho the fix for the AC is: an anti-focus trick, decent defensive cooldowns, and a few proc'd or activated immunities on par with other classes, in particular other casting classes.

EH has had a strong PvP scene for a while now. I have toons on both EH and POT5 (my mains are on POT5), so I've been debating whether to consolidate everything onto EH (I would have to delete some lowbie alts to do so, unfortunately). The only thing I'd miss is the "default" open world pvp of POT5 (which I sorta missed while putting my EH toons through Rishi and Yavin). For now, I think I'll wait and see what they plan to do in terms of mergers.

I don't follow the rationale for making it exclusive to the healing spec. Regardless of spec, the AC is the favoured focus target because it's seen (correctly) as a quick free kill that reduces the opposing team by 1 member with the least investment and risk, combined with recognition of the opportunity costs of not taking out the commando/merc right away (since they perform well if allowed to free-cast).

It's the number one issue for Commando/Mercs of any spec in arenas, now that we have decent kiting tools. Other areas of Commando relative under-performance (like nerf of off-healing, the "GCD tax" on the AC's spammable self-heal and associated proc, etc.) can be addressed with tweaks rather than ability overhaul.

The long-standing faction imbalance on POT5 seems to be exacerbated by the declining server population overall. Peek hour used to see twice as many Imps in fleet as the Pubs - now it's more like three times as many Imps. But both factions have seen a huge drop in numbers.

This. Merc / Mandos probably reached their best just prior to 3.0. The problem with incremental improvement of the advanced class over time is that improvements are always eventually off-set by buffs elsewhere. So the improved kiting tools we got earlier have been largely off-set by increased melee roots and other buffs and immunities (for example, an assassin can now shrug off 2-3 whole DPS rotations, including our one-shot cd Electro-net, and Vortex Bolt can be unreliable when trying to re-set your dps rotation while kiting, obliging you to self-root in order to hard cast Grav Round to reset your rotation the old fashion way). Also, the instant self-heals (an ealier proc'd buff to help us *slightly* with survivability when 1v1) have been taken away and replaced with something far less viable. I'm don't want to be accused of QQ'ing, but we've slipped back down to foodchain and are still regarded as the #1 easy focus target. The OP's post is testament to that. The thing I will say about playing hard-mode pvp Merc / Mandos is that it is excellent training for any of the other ranged casters. Applying the same skill on my Sage and Sorc, I do so much better on the warzone scoreboard simply because I'm more slippery, can recover after being cornered, can pick up extra medals with off-heals and bubbles, and spend a lot less time respawning.

If they merged into two mega-servers, would that be the end of OWPvP as we know it, outside of periodic special events like the Gree Enclave?

You're playing the best dueling class in game, boasting about taking on the most difficult dueling class in game. If a merc/commando gets you down to half your health before dying, then the merc/commando *beat* you as far as I'm concerned.