Uh Oh, the world as we know it may come to an end

[MeNaCe-NZ]

If, it is simplified...if...crafting will be less profitable because fewer items will exist to be crafted and more people will be crafting them.

 

For example, if you've taken the time to RE implants so that you have all of the artifact level 186's you have a myriad of choices at the artifact level. Some are worthless, others are very much in demand. Simplifying that system takes what is currently somewhere around 24 different options which not all crafters have gotten because of the time and effort involved and narrows it down to a quarter of that or less. That will require less time and effort to reach the top iterations and while some people still won't be bothered to craft, those who do craft will find more people trying to sell fewer items.

 

We can't possibly know for sure until there is an official announcement of what is actually taking place. It could be those reduced iterations will be compensated for through sub component iterations and the actual time and effort will remain the same...but we will still see fewer items at the top for the crafting for profit crowd to fight over.

 

I think you are quite right on the crafting front. How much it will be impacted is hard to say at this stage but I think it's safe to say that there definitely will be less profit to be made in most areas simply because of less demand and more supply.

Same goes for mat gathering too if you look at what might possibly be removed, less mats overall means more common mats in the remaining schematics so less variety means more supply of what is required.

 

Not sure how I feel about the possibility of having required mats coming from HM FPs though if that's the case. For BIS that you RE from drops then sure but if it's just for top tier schem items then that seems a bit off putting and a bit of a punishment to the more pure crew skills community ( though the positive is it should boost the amount of people running FPs in GF so thats a big plus to the community on a whole ).

 

Dyes/crystals are things I've often used to make credits from crafting so I don't see these changing too much other than possibly more people crafting them if there other markets become less profitable. Also war supplies I make tons from at the right time and with mat removals one can only assume these recipes are changing too.

 

Still regardless of what happens there will still be tons of credits to be made, there always is.

[FerkWork]

Well that was a level 64 blue in the screenshot and it was 208 rating, the equivalent 3.0 piece was 178 rating. So it looks like it'll have the same jump in tier as every other expansion, +30 rating. Tionese was 126, the stuff you got after Makeb, or when Oricon first released was 156, and well 3.0 is 186, no reason to see that pattern changing now based on the datamine. So basic tier purples will be 216 rating I'd guess.

 

There was one of a 220 which I was referring too...

 

Maybe it was the new raid gear. Dunno, probable gonna just jump into HM and skip SM

[Draqsko]

There was one of a 220 which I was referring too...

 

Maybe it was the new raid gear. Dunno, probable gonna just jump into HM and skip SM

 

I see what you mean, but there is the fact that it is 4 numbered upgrades past the current top tier 39 with a 204 rating. So we don't know if we are looking at a higher tier than starting ops gear, that's why I was basing it on the blue armor piece since we know that is a leveling piece equivalent to 178 crafted stuff.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

One thing I will be interested in is what happens to all the existing crafted items listed on GTN if changes are made?

They all become the same item? They become obsolete for vendor sale ( meaning you could lose out big time on materials )? You get them back and can RE them back to what you used to craft them ( this would cause it's own set of issues, espeically if material have also become obsolete ).

 

It's going to be interesting to see what happens to the GTN at go live especially since ideally there is an entire week supposedly of some people being able to access new content and some not ... wonder how that works in terms of crafting or if it will be story only.

 

Reallly hope they've thought this all through entirely.

[Draqsko]

One thing I will be interested in is what happens to all the existing crafted items listed on GTN if changes are made?

They all become the same item? They become obsolete for vendor sale ( meaning you could lose out big time on materials )? You get them back and can RE them back to what you used to craft them ( this would cause it's own set of issues, espeically if material have also become obsolete ).

 

It's going to be interesting to see what happens to the GTN at go live especially since ideally there is an entire week supposedly of some people being able to access new content and some not ... wonder how that works in terms of crafting or if it will be story only.

 

Reallly hope they've thought this all through entirely.

 

Easy, existing gear will just be converted based on the template that currently makes up the piece. They'll change the base template and every single piece in existence will change. They did it when they removed expertise from War Hero and Elite War Hero, changed some armor types to adaptive, etc.

 

Edit: Forgot to add, we can't really judge perceived value right now since we don't know the stat DR curves. If they use the current curves, then yes a lot of stuff will have little perceived value since only crit and power will matter for the most part. If those curves change though, accuracy and alacrity will still have value, and the stats themselves on already made stuff will just be converted during the patching process.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Draqsko

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Easy, existing gear will just be converted based on the template that currently makes up the piece. They'll change the base template and every single piece in existence will change. They did it when they removed expertise from War Hero and Elite War Hero, changed some armor types to adaptive, etc.

 

Edit: Forgot to add, we can't really judge perceived value right now since we don't know the stat DR curves. If they use the current curves, then yes a lot of stuff will have little perceived value since only crit and power will matter for the most part. If those curves change though, accuracy and alacrity will still have value, and the stats themselves on already made stuff will just be converted during the patching process.

 

Yes I think a mass conversion is given but it will be interesting how they handle the GTN side of things. Do they just remain listed or dumped back to our cargo?

Also if mat requirements change for many schems you could effectively end up quite out of pocket if you were listing a lot of old schem crafted goods on the GTN just before launch that may have been much more expensive to craft than the new schem.

 

I could go on and on but I think the point I am trying to make is they really need to make crafting changes super clear and a good amount of time before release. Much like what was done with the GSH crafting changes, plentyo f time to plan etc. so no real excuse if anyone gets caught out.

 

Either way I wouldn't personally be crafting much of any stat based items for a month before this release as the likely hood of losing out seems quite high.

 

Good time to start stocking up on top end purples though ... hint hint.

[psandak]

Yes I think a mass conversion is given but it will be interesting how they handle the GTN side of things. Do they just remain listed or dumped back to our cargo?

Also if mat requirements change for many schems you could effectively end up quite out of pocket if you were listing a lot of old schem crafted goods on the GTN just before launch that may have been much more expensive to craft than the new schem.

 

I could go on and on but I think the point I am trying to make is they really need to make crafting changes super clear and a good amount of time before release. Much like what was done with the GSH crafting changes, plentyo f time to plan etc. so no real excuse if anyone gets caught out.

 

Either way I wouldn't personally be crafting much of any stat based items for a month before this release as the likely hood of losing out seems quite high.

 

Good time to start stocking up on top end purples though ... hint hint.

 

I think you overestimate the knowledge of the average player. You are assuming the the average player knows that these changes are coming.

 

Just this past Tuesday on my guild progression group's raid night, it was mentioned and six of the eight members had NO IDEA about mastery or the consolidation of surge into crit.

 

The fact is that a very small percentage of any game's population visits internet forums about that game. They depend on the "news feed" in the launcher, and even then a majority don't really pay that much attention.

 

My point is that the overwhelming majority of buyers are going to keep buying, and to stop selling just because you know big changes are coming is foolhardy.

Edited August 14, 2015 by psandak

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I think you overestimate the knowledge of the average player. You are assuming the the average player knows that these changes are coming.

 

Just this past Tuesday on my guild progression group's raid night, it was mentioned and six of the eight members had NO IDEA about mastery or the consolidation of surge into crit.

 

The fact is that a very small percentage of any game's population visits internet forums about that game. They depend on the "news feed" in the launcher, and even then a majority don't really pay that much attention.

 

My point is that the overwhelming majority of buyers are going to keep buying, and to stop selling just because you know big changes are coming is foolhardy.

 

No I think the average player DOESN'T know these changes are coming and Bioware needs to lift there game to ensure they do.

 

That's why I said a month out ( not now ) I would personally give up those crafts. That's just me and my advice mind you, just an opinion and we all have them.

 

This is based on the idea that Bioware would have officially announced changes by then.

 

Once we know exactly what the changes are it would be easier to offer advice ( though let's be honest here, anytime anyone around here notices a means to corner a market or whatnot from an upcoming change noone exactly writes up a guide for everyone on how to go about it as it wouldn't really work then ) but based on what I've seen so far I stand by my 1 month statement.

 

Sure you could keep doing it and keep selling or you could craft things that will still be more likely to hold or gain value ( crystals/dyes for example if the demand on midlithe were to go up ) and avoid any risk of being stuck with items that won't hold their value.

 

I might actually post up my thoughts on how to make a killing this time around when we see all the changes. I've got more credits than I'll ever use it would seem and far more CM items than I will be selling through in a hurry so maybe open up the discussion this time around ... if they announce the changes anyway heh. Would be laughable if they tried to private PTS the whole thing behind NDAs.

[eartharioch]

I think you overestimate the knowledge of the average player. You are assuming the the average player knows that these changes are coming.

 

Just this past Tuesday on my guild progression group's raid night, it was mentioned and six of the eight members had NO IDEA about mastery or the consolidation of surge into crit.

 

The fact is that a very small percentage of any game's population visits internet forums about that game. They depend on the "news feed" in the launcher, and even then a majority don't really pay that much attention.

 

To be fair, even the above-average player is probably unaware of the rumored changes...

 

My point is that the overwhelming majority of buyers are going to keep buying, and to stop selling just because you know big changes are coming is foolhardy.

 

FYI, my personal mantra is that I'll stop selling when people stop buying

[Draqsko]

FYI, my personal mantra is that I'll stop selling when people stop buying

 

Spoken like a true crafter, I tip my hat to you sir.

[Blakinik]

I am not meaning to rant here, but if it comes off as such - I apologize in advance.

 

If the data miners are right, I am sorry but crafting will be reduced to a level of stupidity and a race to the lowest common denominator. That is not the way to go, unless the ultimate goal is to outright kill crafting. Some days I really do wonder if that is the case.

 

Here is what I see as the problem so far with crafting (not all inclusive):

 

[*]Everything you can craft can be bought with basic commendations.

 

[*]No point in doing level based crystals in that the best crystals can be had at lvl 10 via the CM.

 

[*]Crafting any armor is pointless unless you want to win the ugly armor award.

 

[*]Some items you can craft make no sense (cunning and defense anyone?) for the character builds.

 

[*]All development for items is based via the CM, not a player driven economy.

 

[*]Crafted items do not equal or rival in game items you can get from grinding.

 

 

I'll be honest in that I do not know the limitations to the code. However, what I think would be better is instead of dumbing down the system, how about blowing it up big time?

 

For instance lets look at a gun. The CM could give you the shell (lets assume like a sniper rifle). However the best additions are required from crafters. From here you could select a stock, grip, barrel, magazine, scope, rail set, bipod, flash suppressor, silencer, and so on. RL equivalent here would be to walk into a Cabela's and look at all the AR-15 accessories that are available. Each component would impact the gun. Heck even if they tossed in the magazine to allow for specialty ammo with bonuses and disadvantages, this would add an interesting wrinkle into the game.

 

Another factor would be in the more powerful items. Have it where you need to 'trade' components or rely on another skill to produce it. For instance, in crafting a light saber, you may need a component that only a synthweaver can produce. What this would do is allow for every skill to be utilized more effectively instead of a synthweaver producing only augments because that is the only useful thing they can do.

 

Next, change the way we get schematics please. For the love of Pete, I really do not need my 54,786th drop of the same chest schematic for armormech. Rather how about having schematics like a comm. You can 'purchase' a new schematic off a menu based on the number of schematic comms you have. These would be a simple green schematic and allow for you to RE to get the blue and purple variants. In fact the more you RE, the more schematic comms you get allowing for people to have well rounded schematic portfolios.

 

Finally speaking of 'green' items, make this the only items available to drop, with maybe 'blues' available for Ops and HM FPs. This would allow for crafters to RE to the purple gear again driving a player based economy. Most servers have enough crafters that supply and demand will typically drive the fair median price for an item.

 

I am not sure if this is the right angle, the wrong angle, or a completely off the rails angle to look at crafting, but I would like some complexity in crafting over a redundant dumbed down system that seems to be coming our way.

 

Blak

Edited August 21, 2015 by Blakinik
List was bleeped up

[asbalana]

I am not meaning to rant here, but if it comes off as such - I apologize in advance. ......

 

There are a lot of good and interesting ideas in your post. They would make crafting a ton more interesting and valuable. Good post.

[psandak]

There are a lot of good and interesting ideas in your post. They would make crafting a ton more interesting and valuable. Good post.

 

But his suggestions would also make crafting a required part of play. That is something that the devs don't want. Making any suggestions you MUST start from the premise that crafting is optional.

[asbalana]

But his suggestions would also make crafting a required part of play. That is something that the devs don't want. Making any suggestions you MUST start from the premise that crafting is optional.

 

As I reread the post, I am not sure that I am seeing this.

 

The first two paragraphs really just say to break down the components to a finer degree or provide enhancements to crafted items (not BW Artifice enhancements) like in WOW and to spread the construction of items over a number of different crafting skills. No play requirement there.

 

The third paragraph looks to different methodologies for acquiring schematics other than drops or REing. Note that (unless I am not remembering correctly) the Black Hole vendors sell certain schematics for comms., we see certain schematics require rep, and schematics do drop from play loot. Also certain schematics can only e obtained by REing stuff from Flashpoints or OPs. Even if you buy those items on the GTN to RE, someone had to play to get them. So BW is not quite so pure in not requiring play. I see more of a typical MMO pattern where the devs do what they want to do at the momement without consistant rhyme or reason. Kind of on the theory it is their game and not yours, so shut up and fork over the $ 15 a month.

 

I am not sure where the :"green drops" in the last paragraph fits in, but can see why that was added. On the whole, drops are useless junk that for the most part one only picks up so they can vend for credits.

 

PS - In the end the only question I would have in consideration of some of the suggestions is, what difference would they make? Almost all crafting of armor, excluding implants, ears, and relics, comes down to making mods, armoring, and enhancements. Not a lot of real armor is called for.

 

In the end no changes will occur except a dumming down of crafting because any positive changes and/or crafting produced items would negatively impact the CM and this is what the game has really become all about.

Edited August 21, 2015 by asbalana

[psandak]

I see more of a typical MMO pattern where the devs do what they want to do at the momement without consistant rhyme or reason. Kind of on the theory it is their game and not yours, so shut up and fork over the $ 15 a month.

 

I do not see the "pattern" that way. I see the devs trying different things to see how well they go over and how balanced they are. Some ideas have gone over well and are decently balanced like schematics for comms or reputation. And others not so much.

 

Also there is speculated redistribution of what crafting skill crafts what in 4.0

[Khevar]

Also there is speculated redistribution of what crafting skill crafts what in 4.0

I hadn't seen any speculation on this. Are some people thinking that the different crafting professions may change up what types of gear they can craft?

[psandak]

I hadn't seen any speculation on this. Are some people thinking that the different crafting professions may change up what types of gear they can craft?

 

I wish I could say more but it involves the D____ ____ materials.

[Khevar]

I wish I could say more but it involves the D____ ____ materials.

Ahh. I missed that part of the article on [REDACTED]. Interesting ...

[pooks]

I wonder if they will forget about the ship sensor crafting things.... probably....

[Draqsko]

I wonder if they will forget about the ship sensor crafting things.... probably....

 

We'll probably have far more companions capable of crafting than we could ever use at one time so it's less of an issue now than when those came out. At the time it was beneficial since you could have your ship droid crafting while you took out a more useful companion, instead of being forced to have that companion crafting and using the ship droid instead.

 

With how Treek and HK were given crafting bonuses, I'd venture to say that a great of the future companions will be structured the same. Some might have some flavor, but I think a lot would have to be generic just to be compatible with all classes. That negates the need for those sensors or the ship droid for crafting.

[psandak]

Well the livestream provided some answers regarding companions but nothing directly related to crafting...

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8407848#post8407848

 

One of the concerns here was that of affection. The quote is:

 

What about all of that Affection I farmed for my Companions?

We haven't forgotten the relationships you've built; the affection you earned will not be lost and the relationships you built will continue to be relevant.

 

-eric

 

This has ZERO meaning with regard to crafting, the affection system (of improving crew skill ability) could still go away.

 

Another bit of info is that we can get back all our existing companions but they exist outside the story.

 

What happens to my existing Companions in KotFE?

When Fallen Empire launches, all of your existing Companions remain accessible to you outside of the story Chapters. In the KotFE story there is a specific cast of characters that is a part of that ongoing storyline.

 

This probably means that we crafters can advance into KotFE and not be gimped in crew skills

 

Personally, as I am not one to "take advantage" of the early stages of crafting, I will probably go through the story and get my companions back the "right" way. But that's just me...to each his own. If after the story I need to fill in some gaps I will.

[SithEmpress]

How does gear come into play here?

Starting in KotFE your Companion's power and stats scale with your level, regardless of the gear they are wearing. However, you can still use gear to determine exactly how your Companions will look. (note: this is not a part of Appearance Designer)

 

I’m divided on the new companion don’t need armor thing. On one hand it will be a nice thing to have when leveling fast but it also make cybertech droid part complete pointless and limit people need on mods, armor etc. At least if this feature applies from the first level as the above post make it sound like it may only start after KOTFE but in the live stream it sound like it would be the new norm for the whole game.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I’m divided on the new companion don’t need armor thing. On one hand it will be a nice thing to have when leveling fast but it also make cybertech droid part complete pointless and limit people need on mods, armor etc. At least if this feature applies from the first level as the above post make it sound like it may only start after KOTFE but in the live stream it sound like it would be the new norm for the whole game.

 

This I agree with. I personally like it HEAPS as a gameplay mechanics but like it or loathe it IS going to affect the market on crafted goods to some degree.

 

Right now you get pretty good gear for your comps playing up to 60 so they probably intended this to happen anyway as they started making that change however it will effect the leveling 0-55 where you often geared up your comps to make it much easier. I used to spend quite a lot doing this and at about the same rate I would gear myself up - no need any more.

 

so I base my point on how much I spent doing it and assuming quite a lot of other people leveling toons did the same and yeah, big dent in the market.

[Pietrastor]

Personally, as I am not one to "take advantage" of the early stages of crafting, I will probably go through the story and get my companions back the "right" way. But that's just me...to each his own. If after the story I need to fill in some gaps I will.

Same. I dont think I will unlock any companions who don't ACTUALLY come back ot my ship a part of the story. If they're gone story-wise, then they're gone. Having their "skin" as a combat drone available to summon hardly makes a difference if in the real story they're doing something else in a different part of the galaxy and refused/can't rejoing my squad and come back to the ship.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Same. I dont think I will unlock any companions who don't ACTUALLY come back ot my ship a part of the story. If they're gone story-wise, then they're gone. Having their "skin" as a combat drone available to summon hardly makes a difference if in the real story they're doing something else in a different part of the galaxy and refused/can't rejoing my squad and come back to the ship.

 

Which I think is cool ,we can all choose to play this how we want as you've demonstrated there.

 

Others might just bring them all back wholesale and keep story and out of story completely seperate.