Khevar Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I’m divided on the new companion don’t need armor thing. Me, too. Once your toon hits max level, you can still increase your power through higher tiers of gear. But in 4.0, your companions would always remain locked at the same level of power no matter how much your progress. I liked giving my companions hand-me-downs as I geared up, (then tackling previously difficult content) -- it made life at max level more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I liked giving my companions hand-me-downs as I geared up, (then tackling previously difficult content) -- it made life at max level more interesting. And maybe that's partly the intent. By "previously difficult content" I am assuming you mean doing group content solo (because there is no true solo content in this game that is "difficult"). Considering that all the FPs are getting tactical and solo mode versions, that only leaves planetary heroic missions as the last group content that could be soloed and given the right combination of character and companion roles (which will also be mutable going forward) all you need to do is over-level the content and it can be done in moderate gear. And they are apparently moving away from heroic missions - there are no heroic group missions in all of SOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Considering that all the FPs are getting tactical and solo mode versions, that only leaves planetary heroic missions as the last group content that could be soloed ... I was thinking more along the lines of running flashpoints not in solo mode, or stuff like that. Not that this is a tremendous deal or anything. I just liked the idea of my older gear having a more useful lifespan. Edited August 27, 2015 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithEmpress Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I hope they give some new thing to crafter, as they confirmed today that the no gear thing for companion is form 1-60. That mean droid part are complete worthless as no one going to need them as they don’t even change the look of the driod like armor do for other companions. Maybe they could give cybertech customized droid looks or something. Sadly this is also going to hugely impact mod, armoring, implants, etc because the only thing players will need is the one for themselves (which the basic com/ questing) should cover easily. I know purple and blue might still sell some, when come to what players need. I just hope they realize how much our market are being ruined and give us other items to craft. I’m so sad I ground out so many purple droid part as that was my main crafters market and it sound like right now it was complete waste of time. I’ll adapted but still it sort of a bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I hope they give some new thing to crafter, as they confirmed today that the no gear thing for companion is form 1-60. That mean droid part are complete worthless as no one going to need them as they don’t even change the look of the driod like armor do for other companions. Maybe they could give cybertech customized droid looks or something. Sadly this is also going to hugely impact mod, armoring, implants, etc because the only thing players will need is the one for themselves (which the basic com/ questing) should cover easily. I know purple and blue might still sell some, when come to what players need. I just hope they realize how much our market are being ruined and give us other items to craft. I’m so sad I ground out so many purple droid part as that was my main crafters market and it sound like right now it was complete waste of time. I’ll adapted but still it sort of a bummer. the HUGE advantage 178 and 186 crafted item modifications have over quest acquired 178 and basic comms 186 is the fact that they can be used at a lower level. 178 quest gear and 186 basic comms gear are restricted to level 60, while the crafted stuff requires level 56 for 178 and level 58 for 186. If (big if) that pattern continues, the drop off will not be as precipitous as you think; players will still want that "early access" advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithEmpress Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) I agree for player there will still be advantage for crafted good as there is now "it will be cut down due to not needing to gear companions." but there probably will be some market there. The problem I'm worried about is the fact that companion won't need any gear after the new expansion beside using armor for customized looks. This will take a hug junk of buyers out of the market, who wont need gear for there companions. At least for droid part my main market, they will become complete worthless as player don't use droid parts on themselves and companions won't need them at all due to the new changes. I'm not saying there won't be a market, there always is. Edited August 27, 2015 by SithEmpress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Eh. I used to be worried about changes that would affect the crafting market, but I've seen people continue to purchase things despite all logic that says "this isn't the best investment, pal" 1. The week before 2.0 dropped, I sold several dozen BiS grade 27 armorings, mods, enhancements, etc. which were all about to be made obsolete. I was flabbergasted by this at the time. This stuff wasn't cheap -- yet people kept buying it, so I kept making it, selling some stuff the night before 2.0 went live. Go figure. 2. When all "leveling commendation" types were rolled into a single "planetary commendations", I figured this would be the end of mid-level crafting. Nope. People kept buying them. 3. With Yavin giving free 192 companion gear, and Ziost doing the same for main toons, I figured the 186 purple market would dry up. Nope, people are still buying stuff I list on the GTN as recently as last night. My prediction is that the mid-level gear market will continue, perhaps at a less rapid pace. And the first-tier craftable endgame gear market (208 rating mebbe?) will sell like water in the desert for the first couple of months of 4.0, but will continue to be profitable all the way up to the next expansion. Edit: Just the fact that you were able to sell purple droid gear is a testament to this fact. Purple droid gear while leveling is a terrible investment, as it goes obsolete so quickly and can't be legacy-transferred to alts. Purple droid gear at max level is worse than optimized crafted purple 186 mods, is worse than the free 192 Yavin gear, and doesn't even change droid companion appearance. So color me impressed that you even found a market for it at all. Edited August 27, 2015 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithEmpress Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 You've got a point, guess we will just have to wait and see how it all turn out. One thing for sure I'm going to sell as much droid parts as I can before it goes away. As I note before there will always be something to sell, even resources sell for a nice junk of money. I just wish they'd tell us more about the changes to crafting but I'm sure they will eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I just wish they'd tell us more about the changes to crafting but I'm sure they will eventually. Ditto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lecaja Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 What am I missing? Per the webstream companions stats are going to be gear based rather than level based. My first thought was that this is going to cut demand in half if not a lot more because players will have enough coms now to get through the game easy peasy putting us all that craft for profit out of business overnight when word gets out and yet no one talking about that or having a meltdown just me. Clearly I'm missing something but I don't see it, so can one of you please explain it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 What am I missing? Per the webstream companions stats are going to be gear based rather than level based. My first thought was that this is going to cut demand in half if not a lot more because players will have enough coms now to get through the game easy peasy putting us all that craft for profit out of business overnight when word gets out and yet no one talking about that or having a meltdown just me. Clearly I'm missing something but I don't see it, so can one of you please explain it to me. I touched on this and I agree though I no longer craft anything like that so I'm not overly concerned. Artifice still will do fine with colour crystals being more purely cosmetic for companions and dye modules there too. Enhancements/hilts take a big hit but those were never THAT profitable compared to other options anyway ( server dependent ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 What am I missing? Per the webstream companions stats are going to be gear based rather than level based. My first thought was that this is going to cut demand in half if not a lot more because players will have enough coms now to get through the game easy peasy putting us all that craft for profit out of business overnight when word gets out and yet no one talking about that or having a meltdown just me. Clearly I'm missing something but I don't see it, so can one of you please explain it to me. You want to know why I am not panicking? Because I have 15+ years of MMO crafting experience and EVERY TIME, some change spelled gloom and doom for crafting for profit, I just adapted and kept on truckin'. This is no different. Furthermore, I'm not convinced that gearing companions was ever a major market, so IMO the impact is not going to be as severe as you and others think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 What am I missing? Per the webstream companions stats are going to be gear based rather than level based. My first thought was that this is going to cut demand in half if not a lot more because players will have enough coms now to get through the game easy peasy putting us all that craft for profit out of business overnight when word gets out and yet no one talking about that or having a meltdown just me. Clearly I'm missing something but I don't see it, so can one of you please explain it to me. For me personally (dunno about the others), the only reason I've weathered every change the game has thrown at me is that I dabble in many markets, and never focus on just one. If the mid-level crafting market completely dries up -- which I doubt, it's not happened so far, with other similar changes that caused people to fear this exact thing -- but if it did in fact completely dry up, there are plenty of other things to craft. Players have a lot of available disposable credits from high-level dailies, the game is alt-friendly and many players have lots of alts, people like to buy things they can afford. I don't see the latest change coming in 4.0 as anything to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithEmpress Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I personal am more worried then a few of the other posters in this forum about the no gear need for companions but as other have said there will always be a way to make credits. As I mention earlier for me one of my main market is droid parts and it looks like it is going to be complete lost, as well as all the advance schematic which I worked hard getting. So that really isn't cool and kind of upsetting but it not the end of the world either. I'm not as confident as other posters that the market won't be hit hard. I think it will take a bigger hit then they think because most the people I known who buy gear buy it for their companions to save the basic com for later use. Of course this might just be my experiences. I'm sure there will be other doorway to make credits, of course players will still buy mods etc. So there little point in freaking out, as the changes are coming good or bad. All we can do is wait and adapted to the changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) I’m divided on the new companion don’t need armor thing. On one hand it will be a nice thing to have when leveling fast but it also make cybertech droid part complete pointless and limit people need on mods, armor etc. Its a great example (once again) of devs simply forgetting the effect their new game changes have on old stuff, particularly crafting. Bioware has been doing such short-sighted changes throughout their history. Im also aware that 'companions dont need armor' will lower the demand for crafting considerably. Might even be something like 80%. And Im sure the thought that this might screw crafting over once again never came closer than two light-years of a dev's head. Edited August 28, 2015 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Its a great example (once again) of devs simply forgetting the effect their new game changes have on old stuff, particularly crafting. Bioware has been doing such short-sighted changes throughout their history. Im also aware that 'companions dont need armor' will lower the demand for crafting considerably. Might even be something like 80%. And Im sure the thought that this might screw crafting over once again never came closer than two light-years of a dev's head. I think you are over dramatizing the situation. I think the devs weighed the options and made a conscious decision. Does that decision impact crafting? Probably. But something else to realize is that the devs have access to specific data: character X buys item Y and equips it in slot Z where slot Z is character or companion. We as players only see our small corner of the universe, the devs can the see the whole picture. The other concern that this change directly addresses are events in the story where one HAS to bring a specific companion into a situation and because that companion has not been used ever it is not geared up enough for the scenario. My first character was a JK, and I went into the final battle with a severely undergeared companion because I had to take that companion (this was before the "fix" for that event too). So I struggled mightily to complete that battle (I did complete though after many tries and alterations of tactics). And chances are there are going to be more situations like the above in the expansion - where specific companions are going to be needed - and therefore a more widespread "fix" was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I feel it is as simple as: Bioware is focused on designing and delivering a game based primarily on story and player choice. Fixed role companions and gear driving companion stats / combat effectiveness creates obstacles to their ability to deliver the best story and allow maximum player choice. Bioware changes companions to fill any role, and to no longer need gear for combat effectiveness, to remove those obstacles. Crafting is a supporting system, not the primary focus of the game, and thus changes are made which may negatively impact crafting for the sake of supporting the primary goal of delivering a story driven / choice based game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asbalana Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) I feel it is as simple as: Bioware is focused on designing and delivering a game based primarily on story and player choice. Fixed role companions and gear driving companion stats / combat effectiveness creates obstacles to their ability to deliver the best story and allow maximum player choice. Bioware changes companions to fill any role, and to no longer need gear for combat effectiveness, to remove those obstacles. Crafting is a supporting system, not the primary focus of the game, and thus changes are made which may negatively impact crafting for the sake of supporting the primary goal of delivering a story driven / choice based game. Actually, it is more simply that story is the context in which the game exists and not the game itself. The story(s) at launch were deeper, more diverse, and had more breadth that the expansion will have. They were unique to character class which offered replay as an alt possibilities. Yet, it took F2P and the CM to save the game the first go around and those cards have been played. As far as player choice in the progression of story, that is more an illusion rather than a reality. Each choice, if meaningful, would have two or more subpaths and if those had meaning they would have multiple subpaths. The possibilies would grow expomentially. In the expansion, two choices have been highlighted that will change things. But my guess is even so, the two choices will converge somewhere soon down the line. Crafting is indeed a support system, but it is also one of the only sandbox subgames within the main. Removing crafting as well as diverse stats, companion gearing, etc. makes the game dependent on story alone and story will not carry the day. PS - Yes, I used the term "removing crafting". Before responses tell me that crafting will still exist, I will respond by saying that marginalizing something to the nth degree is no different than removing it. PPS - In the end, the most interesting thing about the expansion will be the market reaction a few months out after it's launch. Will numbers increase and hold or will they spike up at launch and than crash lower than before. No way to tell, it will be interesting to watch. Edited August 28, 2015 by asbalana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toraak Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I personal am more worried then a few of the other posters in this forum about the no gear need for companions but as other have said there will always be a way to make credits. As I mention earlier for me one of my main market is droid parts and it looks like it is going to be complete lost, as well as all the advance schematic which I worked hard getting. So that really isn't cool and kind of upsetting but it not the end of the world either. I'm not as confident as other posters that the market won't be hit hard. I think it will take a bigger hit then they think because most the people I known who buy gear buy it for their companions to save the basic com for later use. Of course this might just be my experiences. I'm sure there will be other doorway to make credits, of course players will still buy mods etc. So there little point in freaking out, as the changes are coming good or bad. All we can do is wait and adapted to the changes. I'm not so sure people spent that much on comp gear. From my experience, I get so many basic comms from questing I never actually bought any gear from the GTN for any companion, and now I just have all those comms armorings/mods/enhancements in Legacy gear to use on any further alts/companions anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 The change to companions doesn't really affect crafting. Few people would spend credits on gearing companions while leveling since "hand me down" gear and loot geared most companions quite well. With the change to basic comms and comm gear/mods, I doubt anyone geared companions through crafted gear unless they were crafting it themselves. And the 192's available from SoR killed any need for end game gearing of companions. You can't kill a market that was already dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 PPS - In the end, the most interesting thing about the expansion will be the market reaction a few months out after it's launch. Will numbers increase and hold or will they spike up at launch and than crash lower than before. No way to tell, it will be interesting to watch. What is your measure of those statements? Are you talking about subs or active players? If you are talking about subs, then yes it will spike and crash. There are players out there who have already resubbed for the extras subs get. Once the content is burned through they will unsub and move on. If you are talking about active players...not so much. Based on experience, the population is stable. Yes, there are a lot of F2P and Premium account players that wander in and wander out, but roughly for every out there is a corresponding in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Quote: Originally Posted by Kazyon View Post Will companion bonuses still affect crafting? No they will not. Now all Companions will simply just be better at Crew Skills the higher their Influence is. That's from Musco in Dev Tracker. Finally some confirmation. For anyone following mined data this contradicts something that was stated there about existing companions but they do say to take what they have with a grain of salt which always surprised me when people preach about it like it's gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 That's from Musco in Dev Tracker. Finally some confirmation. For anyone following mined data this contradicts something that was stated there about existing companions but they do say to take what they have with a grain of salt which always surprised me when people preach about it like it's gospel. I like this change - no more optimization required; no more threads on "what's the best crew skill for X class?" Just take what you want because your class and companions no longer matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 I like this change - no more optimization required; no more threads on "what's the best crew skill for X class?" Just take what you want because your class and companions no longer matter. Same though I'm not entirely sure how this effects gifts market right now so i just listed everything I had stowed away just in case heh. Should make an easy 10 million back ( these just accumulate from packs I open, not really crew skills so it's all pure additional profit to the items I got and sold/sell too ). Small risk as they could have it designed that gits are more important with the extra companions we are getting but I'd rather make money now than have worthless trash later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rizartha Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 While it may not be needed to make complete overhaul in SWTOR. KotFE is THE moment to make any changes to crafting. So don't be surprised if it will be different Yeah, with the changes to companions and how they do crafting might as well go whole hog and make the changes to crafting that have been needed, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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