nerf underlurker in story mode already

[NigeldeJ]

Except for doing a basic rotation, you only have to do 3 things. Know the difference between left and right, avoid rocks falling down(that's the big red circles, you know), and then when the boss starts the channel (Alt+F is default for getting the boss on focus target, so you see when he's channeling) you hide behind one of beforementioned rocks. Oh, and kill the adds that spawn.

 

People are talking as if this is rocket science. It's not. It's been nerfed into the ground so hard, it's really your fault if you still keep messing up. I've still seen people fail miserably on the cross phase. When you tell them, repeatedly, that they are in fact on the right arm, and they still go to the left arm 10/10 times, even though the guys they're on the right arm with are marked. How can you still say it's Bioware's fault for making the fight ''too hard''? If these people can't differentiate between left and right, or follow simple instructions from the ops leader, then they shouldn't even bother with operations. Cause in the end, it's endgame content. You can't just do nothing and expect to breeze right through it. As much of a breeze it already is if you ask me.

[DataBeaver]

It would be nice if the cross worked consistently. I've seen green cross do significant amount of damage to half the raid, and red cross do no damage at all. I've even seen the cross turn both green and red at the same time! With broken mechanics like this, it's no wonder people want to just cheese them.

[Memo-]

People are talking as if this is rocket science. It's not. It's been nerfed into the ground so hard, it's really your fault if you still keep messing up. I've still seen people fail miserably on the cross phase. When you tell them, repeatedly, that they are in fact on the right arm, and they still go to the left arm 10/10 times, even though the guys they're on the right arm with are marked. How can you still say it's Bioware's fault for making the fight ''too hard''? If these people can't differentiate between left and right, or follow simple instructions from the ops leader, then they shouldn't even bother with operations. Cause in the end, it's endgame content. You can't just do nothing and expect to breeze right through it. As much of a breeze it already is if you ask me.

 

This is not to defend people not knowing left from right in any way, but:

 

When doing the boss I like to emphasis that left side means left hand, and the boss only has one left hand. When people run in, they don't necessarily recognise whether the boss is facing towards them or not, and will then proceed to run to the left they see, which could in fact be the boss' right hand. So it might be beneficial to spot a friendly reminder that when you are looking at the boss from behind, right hand equals right side, but if you're in front of the boss, that's inverted.

[Shwarzchild]

This is not to defend people not knowing left from right in any way, but:

 

When doing the boss I like to emphasis that left side means left hand, and the boss only has one left hand. When people run in, they don't necessarily recognise whether the boss is facing towards them or not, and will then proceed to run to the left they see, which could in fact be the boss' right hand. So it might be beneficial to spot a friendly reminder that when you are looking at the boss from behind, right hand equals right side, but if you're in front of the boss, that's inverted.

 

I've found that if you put target markers on everyone who's supposed to be on one side together (so target markers all on the right side members) it goes a little more smoothly. Since a lot people can't figure out which side of the cross to be on just saying "make sure all of you are on the same side if you have a marker on your head".

[Memo-]

I've found that if you put target markers on everyone who's supposed to be on one side together (so target markers all on the right side members) it goes a little more smoothly. Since a lot people can't figure out which side of the cross to be on just saying "make sure all of you are on the same side if you have a marker on your head".

 

I've used that as well. Seems to be pretty much foolproof.

[Icestar]

I've found that if you put target markers on everyone who's supposed to be on one side together (so target markers all on the right side members) it goes a little more smoothly. Since a lot people can't figure out which side of the cross to be on just saying "make sure all of you are on the same side if you have a marker on your head".

 

Yes, I always mark one on the left side and one on the right side. A star on the right side and a cog on the left, then it will be easier to find the correct side.

 

I also tell them to focus target one of the players that is responsible for their side, thatway it will be easier for them to see what side they are going to.

 

Markers on either right or left side is a good idea aswell

Edited June 30, 2015 by Icestar

[benficakungfu]

Nobody cares if NiM players can 2 man it. If it needs to be brought down to 1dps per second to increase number of completitions then that's what should be done. Everyone knows this is a casual/PUG killer that essentially cuts the available pool of 60 Operations in half for majority of raiding population. And it's casual raiders and PUGs that are in absolute majority here. Not HM/NiM raiders.

 

Need I remind you the "quality" testing done by NiM raiders thanks to which we got the buggiest and most unbalanced Operation cycle yet? Yeah no thanks for their adviced how to 4/2-man Underlurker and how everyone else sucks. Sit down and make threads about NiM modes. SM needs to be safely puggable, otherwise it's simply wasted content, just like EC.

 

Underlurker needs to be brought in line with the remaining 9 bosses. Period.

 

Lol no you need to learn to play.

[benficakungfu]

Clearly many players are out of tune, not the bosses.

[Icestar]

Clearly many players are out of tune, not the bosses.

 

So you think it is perfectly normal to have one boss as a PUG blocker that is not the same difficulty as all other bosses, not even Revan?

 

I would rather like a equal difficulty on all SM bosses for a good time then to have one boss standing out like Underlurker does.

[Shwarzchild]

So you think it is perfectly normal to have one boss as a PUG blocker that is not the same difficulty as all other bosses, not even Revan?

 

I would rather like a equal difficulty on all SM bosses for a good time then to have one boss standing out like Underlurker does.

 

To play devil's advocate: Regardless of whether it's liked or disliked this type of thing has basically been around for the life of the game.

 

I don't remember EV too heavily anymore, but Fabricator in KP stopped pug groups because "oh mah gawd puzzlessssssss too hard". Then came EC and Firebrand and Stormcaller which definitely stopped pugs in their tracks. TFB had Operator IX. SnV Thrasher. DF Corruptor Zero, DP I would think Calphayus stopped a lot of pugs too or maybe it was Raptus because people still can't clear those challenges. So this having a boss in the middle of a raid that throws people off isn't exactly some new thing.

Edited June 30, 2015 by Shwarzchild

[Icestar]

To play devil's advocate: Regardless of whether it's liked or disliked this type of thing has basically been around for the life of the game.

 

I don't remember EV too heavily anymore, but Fabricator in KP stopped pug groups because "oh mah gawd puzzlessssssss too hard". Then came EC and Firebrand and Stormcaller which definitely stopped pugs in their tracks. TFB had Operator IX. SnV Thrasher. DF Corruptor Zero, DP I would think Calphayus stopped a lot of pugs too or maybe it was Raptus because people still can't clear those challenges. So this having a boss in the middle of a raid that throws people off isn't exactly some new thing.

 

To be honest I was there and I did not experience that much problems with those OPS in the story mode, they were however a bit tough when it came to HM and NiM back in the day.

[MASOLIZ]

To play devil's advocate: Regardless of whether it's liked or disliked this type of thing has basically been around for the life of the game.

 

I don't remember EV too heavily anymore, but Fabricator in KP stopped pug groups because "oh mah gawd puzzlessssssss too hard". Then came EC and Firebrand and Stormcaller which definitely stopped pugs in their tracks. TFB had Operator IX. SnV Thrasher. DF Corruptor Zero, DP I would think Calphayus stopped a lot of pugs too or maybe it was Raptus because people still can't clear those challenges. So this having a boss in the middle of a raid that throws people off isn't exactly some new thing.

 

To be fair you didn't have to do a full clear to get the weekly done, usually it was those bosses you mentioned like CZ, OP9, and Thrasher. That's no longer the case, though the pugkiller boss is still mid raid

[Shwarzchild]

To be fair you didn't have to do a full clear to get the weekly done, usually it was those bosses you mentioned like CZ, OP9, and Thrasher. That's no longer the case, though the pugkiller boss is still mid raid

 

Yeah that's more what I was trying to get at: the pug killer has seemingly always been in the middle of the raids.

[Icestar]

Yeah that's more what I was trying to get at: the pug killer has seemingly always been in the middle of the raids.

 

Lets hope they create content in the future free of PUG killers

Edited June 30, 2015 by Icestar

[bdatt]

Lets hope they create content in the future free of PUG killers

 

I'm still just hoping they create content in the future, period.

 

Otherwise I agree. I imagine it's pretty demoralizing to not be able to clear the easiest mode offered. Easiest mode should be so easy it's stupid and if that means we need 3 or 4 different modes, but maybe only two different mechanic modes (eg easy/story one set of mechanics, HM/NiM another, with dps/dtps/HPS separating all), then so be it. I don't know but can't imagine it's much more work to adjust HP and damage values into both extremes for easy and NiM.

[Alanbra]

An observation from someone who's ranted about Underlurker in this thread before:

 

I made it past Fabricator in a mix of Tionese/Columni from hm fp's.

 

I got past Kephles hm in a mix of rakata/black hole.

 

S&V?, it always seemed that the trash mobs after Thrasher with the Underworld Traders caused more problems than the bosses.

 

Operator IX did cause problems but that was mainly because on my computer he would finally show up as invisible. That's the boss where I learned how important "target of target" was.

 

I made it through df sm on the first night it was released. Dp did take a few weeks longer though.

 

I still have yet to down Underlurker and the problem is the cross mechanic. Our group has three people (including me) with older PC's or slow internet. Our last attempt about two weeks ago ( so it was after it had been "fixed") had the usual problems. For example, 5 people would see a red cross, 2 saw green, and 1 saw red and green.

 

One time we got a green cross with one person (me) not in the cross (or at least on my screen I wasn't).

 

It just seems random on whether the cross mechanic will work or not (and yes, we've tried jumping up and down).

 

So please, make the cross bigger, or at least something less dependent on 8 people all being in a precise spot and hoping the server thinks that's where they are as well.

[Deluxe_]

To play devil's advocate: Regardless of whether it's liked or disliked this type of thing has basically been around for the life of the game.

 

I don't remember EV too heavily anymore, but Fabricator in KP stopped pug groups because "oh mah gawd puzzlessssssss too hard". Then came EC and Firebrand and Stormcaller which definitely stopped pugs in their tracks. TFB had Operator IX. SnV Thrasher. DF Corruptor Zero, DP I would think Calphayus stopped a lot of pugs too or maybe it was Raptus because people still can't clear those challenges. So this having a boss in the middle of a raid that throws people off isn't exactly some new thing.

 

Soa was the quintessential pug killer back in the day. People often couldn't tell west from east and forgot to stack together for the crumbling platforms transitions. Then you would have healers who couldn't top off the entire group during all the jumping down, tanks who couldn't position Soa under the falling pylons, and if you didn't kill Soa by the third pylon he'd enrage, so you needed competent DPS too.

 

Good times.

[JouerTue]

So you think it is perfectly normal to have one boss as a PUG blocker that is not the same difficulty as all other bosses, not even Revan?

 

I would rather like a equal difficulty on all SM bosses for a good time then to have one boss standing out like Underlurker does.

 

it's kuat academy/12x result, and don't forget the 13 months of DF/DP heavy carrying.

 

about screwed crosses...in sm if your healers didn't top you or you fail at dcds, i mean that's a known spike, it's theirs/your fault.

 

we are talking ops, endgame pve. you should need to know your class and how damage or bosses work to participate and take the loot, don't you?

[JouerTue]

One time we got a green cross with one person (me) not in the cross (or at least on my screen I wasn't).

 

It just seems random on whether the cross mechanic will work or not (and yes, we've tried jumping up and down).

 

So please, make the cross bigger, or at least something less dependent on 8 people all being in a precise spot and hoping the server thinks that's where they are as well.

 

 

you need to do more dps so you kill the adds faster so you get earlier on the cross and the server/your machine will register your position.

[Icestar]

we are talking ops, endgame pve. you should need to know your class and how damage or bosses work to participate and take the loot, don't you?

 

Yes I know what I am doing, I have done the content and know my 16 level 60s well.

 

I am refering to earlier in this thread to the fact that Underlurker is the one PUGs whipe at and have to search for new members for over and over again. The only ones who knows the statistics is ofcourse Bioware but if they would make the numbers public I am sure my statement holds.

 

I'm still just hoping they create content in the future, period.

 

Ofcourse they will, this game is a goldmine with the publicity the upcomming movies gives

Edited June 30, 2015 by Icestar

[Lightning_xv]

I'm still just hoping they create content in the future, period.

 

Otherwise I agree. I imagine it's pretty demoralizing to not be able to clear the easiest mode offered. Easiest mode should be so easy it's stupid and if that means we need 3 or 4 different modes, but maybe only two different mechanic modes (eg easy/story one set of mechanics, HM/NiM another, with dps/dtps/HPS separating all), then so be it. I don't know but can't imagine it's much more work to adjust HP and damage values into both extremes for easy and NiM.

 

So basically you want tactical operations. Which by default because of lack of difficulty will drop nothing, give nothing, have no reason to be run other than those who want to " see the story" without any effort on their part. This just sounds boring as hell and dumbing down an OPTIONAL aspect of the game which in most mmo's is supposed to be harder content than the base story. Anyone who is serious about wanting to beat story modes will put in the effort required to do so. Those who aren't will find someone to carry them, never beat it, or go do the Solo version of the yavin quest like they should have from the beginning.

 

 

Oh and the cries when people wipe even on tactical would be the most hilarious thing on the planet. On top of the QQ people arn't doing tactical OPs! Go figure no reward no point. Would be a fantastic use of bioware manpower and time.

[DataBeaver]

you need to do more dps so you kill the adds faster so you get earlier on the cross and the server/your machine will register your position.

That implies that the server infrastructure is not capable of handling the mechanics of this boss. That's not something players should have to deal with. On the other hand, if any adds are still alive when the cross appears, you're going to hit enrage regardless of whether or not you succeed in the cross. Ideally they should be down by the time the boss starts channeling rage storm.

[Deluxe_]

Because people overthink this fight. They pee their pants thinking its some big bad fight when in reality it's a simple mechanics check (stand in spot pop a dcd). Use rebound and you can just ignore the mechanic. And rage storm, pop your basic dcd and keep firing away no need to hide. On my Pt in comm gear 186 with a 186 barrel and blue augs I hit 3.7 on this fight. It enrages when people can't break 2k on a fight :/

 

you need to do more dps so you kill the adds faster so you get earlier on the cross and the server/your machine will register your position.

 

I've ran this boss dozens of times, and with all my experience I can say that this is by far the single biggest problem here: not enough DPS.

 

Not having enough DPS triggers most of the problems associated with this fight: the longer the adds stay alive, the harder it gets for healers to keep up, and some people get panicky when they see their health bar dropping constantly; if adds are still alive when the rocks start falling, it's easy for the group to get split up in between people seeking cover and those trying to finish off the adds; if adds die just before the cross or they're still up, people get overwhelmed between trying to kill the remaining adds, moving to the right side of the boss and dps it at the same time.

 

I think this fight would be a walk in the park if only people could pull their weight and DPS harder. If adds died faster, even people who have problems with trying to keep track of several mechanics at the same time would have a lot less to worry about. But unfortunately, the kind of player who doesn't bring enough damage to this fight is often the kind of player who gets easily overwhelmed by mechanics anyway.

[Gardimuer]

So basically you want tactical operations. Which by default because of lack of difficulty will drop nothing, give nothing, have no reason to be run other than those who want to " see the story" without any effort on their part. This just sounds boring as hell and dumbing down an OPTIONAL aspect of the game which in most mmo's is supposed to be harder content than the base story. Anyone who is serious about wanting to beat story modes will put in the effort required to do so. Those who aren't will find someone to carry them, never beat it, or go do the Solo version of the yavin quest like they should have from the beginning.

 

 

Oh and the cries when people wipe even on tactical would be the most hilarious thing on the planet. On top of the QQ people arn't doing tactical OPs! Go figure no reward no point. Would be a fantastic use of bioware manpower and time.

 

I completely agree. It seems like the PvE community in this game got spoiled by the amount of pure carry in the 16man bolstered groupfinder. Back in my day (pre 2.0) SM TFB was challenging content! Nobody complained it was too challenging - it was meant to be difficult for inexperienced groups since it was the newest op at the time. I remember some groups couldn't beat the enrage timer on the final boss until the temporary bug that made the hypergate irregularities not spawn.

[FerkWork]

I completely agree. It seems like the PvE community in this game got spoiled by the amount of pure carry in the 16man bolstered groupfinder. Back in my day (pre 2.0) SM TFB was challenging content! Nobody complained it was too challenging - it was meant to be difficult for inexperienced groups since it was the newest op at the time. I remember some groups couldn't beat the enrage timer on the final boss until the temporary bug that made the hypergate irregularities not spawn.

 

Lol that Gargantuan Lobel not appearing happened in NiM 2 weeks ago to us.