Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Layden]

Yes, if paying respect to the full combat animation to allow the game to remain balanced, and DPS outputs to be less gimped towards 2-3 ability centric spamming, then I would indeed call this a step back.

 

What was I thinking, why don't we all keel to our great overlord blizzard, and learn from how they made half of their abilities useless for the sake of what "looks" to be more fluid combat, when in fact it is a degraded version of vanilla.

 

You still ignore my comments on adjusting cast times to fit animations and how Alacrity would be rendered useless when locked into animations.

 

Is there a reason for this or are you considering this nerd-rage?

[ajjw]

Instead of syncing the cast bars to the animations as suggested, or clipping animations like in WoW, what about syncing animations to cast bars?

 

That way the animation itself runs quicker with a higher Alacrity rating. Would make sense. Would also give us nice fluid combat.

 

Like, if your cast is 10% quicker, play the animation 10% faster. Makes sense physically.

Edited December 27, 2011 by ajjw

[Xeikai]

I tottaly agree with this post. As a melee, while i do enjoy the aesthetic that is animation syncing when the sabers clash and such like a real duel, the fact that the animations have to finish before anything else can be inputted really throws off any meaningful rotation.

 

I have to watch my back stabs wind up a couple times as if the server is trying to make the other character perform an animation to either block it or whatever. It really slows things down allot.

 

I agree, the animations are nice to look at, but what scares me here is that they may have sacrificed responsiveness for eyecandy when it comes to fights. And it may be a engine issue they cannot fix. Which of course will in the long term, give us 2 options, 1, eventually leave the game. or adapt. But to be honest, with the system in place as it is now. I think the former is more possible. I know it is for me.

[baznasty]

Yes, if paying respect to the full combat animation to allow the game to remain balanced, and DPS outputs to be less gimped towards 2-3 ability centric spamming, then I would indeed call this a step back.

 

What was I thinking, why don't we all keel to our great overlord blizzard, and learn from how they made half of their abilities useless for the sake of what "looks" to be more fluid combat, when in fact it is a degraded, highly gimped version of vanilla.

 

This last post lets me see a little more into your mindset. You are angry with Blizzard, you find anything from that game coming over here as an invasion.

 

One thing you are failing to realize. We all left that game too. We now are here, hoping for this game to hold our attention for, in my case, 7 years.

 

Some of us have the foresight to be able to tell that this is game-breaking. We've played rift, we've played Aion, we've played Warhammer. Most of us had the same complaints in those games.

 

I can only speak for myself here, but I have never posted in those forums about it because I really didn't care that much. This game on the other hand has importance to me. I've been following for years. I pre-ordered the CE the day it was available. I want to give them my money. I just will not give them my money if this is something that will be an issue months from now.

Edited December 27, 2011 by baznasty

[Teloss]

I tottaly agree with this post. As a melee, while i do enjoy the aesthetic that is animation syncing when the sabers clash and such like a real duel, the fact that the animations have to finish before anything else can be inputted really throws off any meaningful rotation.

 

I have to watch my back stabs wind up a couple times as if the server is trying to make the other character perform an animation to either block it or whatever. It really slows things down allot.

 

It doesn't throw off meaningful rotation. It just makes it so your specific rotation can't be completed faster by a person with hands on the verge of obtaining arthritis.

 

Rotations still have meaning, you just have to implement them more thoughtfully.

[ajjw]

It doesn't throw off meaningful rotation. It just makes it so your specific rotation can't be completed faster by a person with hands on the verge of obtaining arthritis.

 

Rotations still have meaning, you just have to implement them more thoughtfully.

No, you don't. Where are getting this from? You claim not to be ignorant but still post this?

 

The GCD would still be present. WoW has a GCD. How can you be so naive? My god.

Edited December 27, 2011 by ajjw

[pmaura]

what if they just increased the discription time lvl for the ablility to make it actualy coincide to what you see.

 

becuase what your actually conplaining about is that instead of it taking .5 seconds to mount you bike, it takes .6, but what if the bar said .6.

 

stop comlplaining

[Eraste]

I am sometimes missing WoW's combat as I progress in ToR. I'm sure it'll feel slightly better with my new PC in the next couple of days and I can max FPS (currently average 20 fps on my laptop). But the #1 cause for me dying is being unable to stun something. hit a clutch interrupt, etc, because of the focus of style over substance.

 

I agree that this is the most troubling issue that the game faces - and for me personally, is at the top of my list. The game is nearly flawless, otherwise, in my opinion. I hope they see that substance matters over style, and tighten the combat down to sensible levels. High level play will remain mostly impossible until it's done. IMO.

 

Keep it alive!

[ajjw]

what if they just increased the discription time lvl for the ablility to make it actualy coincide to what you see.

 

becuase what your actually conplaining about is that instead of it taking .5 seconds to mount you bike, it takes .6, but what if the bar said .6.

 

stop comlplaining

Because when you get Alacrity gear (faster cast times) or reduce the cast times through Skill Trees, that would break.

 

Instead, sync animation to cast time and play the animations faster as the cast time is reduced by Alacrity / Skill Trees.

[Haxon]

We all know what the problem is. Maybe not all of us know exactly how to explain the problem, but we DO KNOW that it is there. This thread has collected over 100 pages in a day and yet people still argue that the problem is not there and that everything is fine....

 

I think I speak for most that actually recognize the problem, WE WANT TO MAKE SW:TOR BETTER..... NOT DESTROY IT! I want to play this game and I also want to see that Bioware is listening to its MAJORITY!

[samdbtto]

Here is another video though a lil something different.

 

I will cast charged burst first showing full animation, than i will cast it again but this time i will follow it up with vital shot, a instant DoT, what you will notice is the the charged burst the 2nd time will do the dmg but the animation stops short and performs vital shot. There is a delay still but I'm posting this to show what combat would be like with cutoff animations. It is more fluid, though still not quite there.

 

I have no idea why this combo of moves causes animation cutoff, but I want more of it.

 

Edited December 27, 2011 by samdbtto

[Layden]

It doesn't throw off meaningful rotation. It just makes it so your specific rotation can't be completed faster by a person with hands on the verge of obtaining arthritis.

 

Rotations still have meaning, you just have to implement them more thoughtfully.

 

This honestly is the most unintelligent thing said in this debate. I don't know how to respond to it. It is just wrong. Plain wrong.

[Horiizons]

I am sometimes missing WoW's combat as I progress in ToR. I'm sure it'll feel slightly better with my new PC in the next couple of days and I can max FPS (currently average 20 fps on my laptop). But the #1 cause for me dying is being unable to stun something. hit a clutch interrupt, etc, because of the focus of style over substance.

 

I agree that this is the most troubling issue that the game faces - and for me personally, is at the top of my list. The game is nearly flawless, otherwise, in my opinion. I hope they see that substance matters over style, and tighten the combat down to sensible levels. High level play will remain mostly impossible until it's done. IMO.

 

Keep it alive!

 

FPS has nothing to do with it. I'm running a pretty nice rig. If you have been playing WoW for awhile like most and are used to it's perfect formula, it makes abilities pretty frustrating. Especially when you start getting your rotations down. It's almost like it doesn't let you think ahead and plan your next attack/spell.

[Teloss]

This last post lets me see a little more into your mindset. You are angry with Blizzard, you find anything from that game coming over here as an invasion.

 

One thing you are failing to realize. We all left that game too. We now are here, hoping for this game to hold our attention for, in my case, 7 years.

 

Some of us have the foresight to be able to tell that this is game-breaking. We've played rift, we've played Aion, we've played Warhammer. Most of us had the same complaints in those games.

 

I can only speak for myself here, but I have never posted in those forums about it because I really didn't care that much. This game on the other hand has importance to me. I've been following for years. I pre-ordered the CE the day it was available. I want to give them my money. I just will not give them my money if this is something that will be an issue months from now.

 

You are correct for a decent portion but I dont' see it as an invasion. I think WoW has some good combat mechanics but I think if BW works with what they have it can be better than WoW's while retaining the amazing animations we see even in PVP.

 

IE: I don't want to sacrifice one of the largest time sinks BW put into this game. Making combat look seamless. Simply because it is frustrating to not be able to move on to your next ability roll part-way into your current.

 

That is what the queue's are designed to help with, and with some fine tuning, "over time", if people give BW some patience, this game has a lot of potential. AS I've said in previous posts, I don't believe anything could be "rushed" to enhance the current system, only things that could potentially break this.

[Razalasses]

I am so grateful for this post. I have played some free MMO's in my time (Fiesta by Outspark for example) and I have been so excited for the release of SW:TOR because it looked like something that was worth spending money on. I have an HP Envy 14 1260se Beats edition so i was praying that... like my computer couldn't handle the gameplay, and that the action delay was a problem with my settings or that my comp wasnt powerful enough (which i was very sure wasnt the problem) I pray that Bioware sees these and gets to work on the issue because i so want to play the game how I imagined it when i pressed the "Purchase" button.

 

Lots of Love,

Razalas36

 

PS: where in the world do i rate up this thread so as to raise awareness? i want to help any way i can

[ajjw]

You are correct for a decent portion but I dont' see it as an invasion. I think WoW has some good combat mechanics but I think if BW works with what they have it can be better than WoW's while retaining the amazing animations we see even in PVP.

 

IE: I don't want to sacrifice one of the largest time sinks BW put into this game. Making combat look seamless. Simply because it is frustrating to not be able to move on to your next ability roll part-way into your current.

 

That is what the queue's are designed to help with, and with some fine tuning, "over time", if people give BW some patience, this game has a lot of potential. AS I've said in previous posts, I don't believe anything could be "rushed" to enhance the current system, only things that could potentially break this.

What if the animations were sped up to match cast times then? You would be happy? That way they wouldn't be clipped like in WoW.

[Teloss]

This honestly is the most unintelligent thing said in this debate. I don't know how to respond to it. It is just wrong. Plain wrong.

 

Could you stop rubbing on your silver spoon? I don't see anything in the post you just made other than an attempt to derail the debate altogether by attacking my intelligence.

 

If you want to get personal with your fallacy driven attempts at insulting me, why don't you PM me.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Teloss

[Nordanvind]

Mounting my hoverbike is maddening, 3/4 times I automatically dismount because I'm used to WoW's smooth responsiveness.

[Teloss]

What if the animations were sped up to match cast times then? You would be happy? That way they wouldn't be clipped like in WoW.

 

I never said I objected to enhancing the system. My reasoning this entire time has been against dropping GCD, and any other "quick" alterations that would break animation and gimp characters out of balance.

 

Which BW won't do anyways. Hopefully.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Teloss

[trinthalas]

It doesn't throw off meaningful rotation. It just makes it so your specific rotation can't be completed faster by a person with hands on the verge of obtaining arthritis.

 

Rotations still have meaning, you just have to implement them more thoughtfully.

 

In pvp this makes the outcome animation based instead of player skill based. In end game raiding, the operations outcome is now based on pretty synced animations instead of superior player skill. If player skill is not what determines the outcome, competitive players will get frustrated and leave. This is why WoW is successful and all other mmo's have either gone to or are on the slow decline to some free to play or microtransaction model. The game should never be limited by anything other than player skill, bottom line.

 

If the game is going to remain attractive as a vehicle for high end competitive gaming, gameplay must be prioritized over animations. Unfortunately, new mmo's are made or broken in the first few critical months after release. I don't want to see this game go the way of monthly emails to the effect of "We miss you in Middle Earth, Warhammer, Age of Conan... etc please come back, it's free now and you can have 100x experience gains!!"

[Seismax]

Could you stop rubbing on your silver spoon? I don't see anything in the post you just made other than an attempt to derail the debate altogether by attacking my intelligence.

 

If you want to get personal with your fallacy driven attempts at insulting me, why don't you PM me.

 

You're wrong though. Combat isn't seamless, the UI isn't responsive, it tries to do both... but it doesn't.

 

All you've done for like 20 pages is claim that any sort of fix will ruin your perfection.

[TheJmoney]

I never said I objected to enhancing the system. My reasoning this entire time has been against dropping GCD, and any other "quick" alterations that would completely break the game.

 

 

How many people would it take to tell you that dropping the gcd would have no effect on this once-so-ever.

 

100?

 

1000?

 

1000000?

 

Get it through your thick skull.

[Gorgewall]

You just don't understand.

 

I am a commando healer. If I use Medical probe, and try to cast another after the first one is DONE casting, it will not begin casting until the first cast's animation is complete. Which is a .5 sec delay in most cases.

 

The animation for the probe fires at the end of the cast, the probe drops down, heals whoever and then flies away. THEN I can cast again.

 

There is no reason I should not be able to cast while the animation is going on, and it's causing deaths in pve AND pvp.

Uh, when I press Medical Probe to cast after Medical Probe, the second cast bar appears the moment the first one disappears. I'm without a cast bar for all of .1 seconds or less. I never stop casting, really.

 

What are you doing wrong?

[ajjw]

I never said I objected to enhancing the system. My reasoning this entire time has been against dropping GCD, and any other "quick" alterations that would completely break the game.

Ok good. Because I'm also of the opinion that syncing the animations to cast times by speeding them up is the best solution.

 

Gives epic, fluid gameplay.

 

Looks pretty.

 

Doesn't break with Alacrity / Skill Trees reducing cast times (just play the animation even faster).

 

Sounds like best of everything to me.

[Teloss]

You're wrong though. Combat isn't seamless, the UI isn't responsive, it tries to do both... but it doesn't.

 

All you've done for like 20 pages is claim that any sort of fix will ruin your perfection.

 

Naw I claimed that none of you have any good ideas, because all of them would make the game worse.

 

Go ahead, cite where I claimed perfection in the current build.