Just removed from a group for being too good

[Aielchief]

The noobery that went down is simply mind boggling and unexplainable.

 

This may be a discussion for another topic, but seriously effin' this. I've heard people blame a "Wrath" mindset, which would explain cc constantly being broken, but even Wrath babies know to let the tank round up the mobs before unloading. Often as a healer I'll be getting hit by ever mob that's not the main focus of the tank.

[Psykhe]

First time ive ever been removed from a grp for being too good at my role. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

Holding aggro on everything is not = good.

 

How many mobs did you pull? Would it have been possible to pull less of them? Did you wait for the energy of the healers to regenerate before charging ahead? Did you use your healing ability after a fight to top yourself off quickly in 5 sec while the healers regenerate their energy?

 

And so on. There are still ton of stuff you can do wrong.

[Stuntie]

..., but even Wrath babies know to let the tank round up the mobs before unloading. ....

 

Given his original postI think this may be his problem. They did specifically mention tryng not to aggro everything...

 

If they don't have the firepower then don't round up all the mobs - just get what they can handle and rinse and repeat. Bring too much back - even trash and the group will get swamped.

[Kelticfury]

The game isn't to hard...wow has made you a poorer player.

 

This can be said about far too many players.

[Sweetleafniners]

As the tank you have to be a leader. Part of being a leader is understanding the abilities of the other classes in your group. You stated yourself that you don't know what abilities the other classes had. That is a huge problem, especially when it comes to crowd control since crowd control can be easily broken on damage. If you were also the puller of the group then you might have been pulling adds which would probably double the amount of damage you take.

 

I mean no disrespect but when a group fails it is never because 1 of the members is too good, it is mainly due to lack of teamwork and understanding of the group make up and capabailites.

[HHHHellraizer]

Explain how it could have gone better.

 

We dont have the tools (and or crowd control, i know i dont have any at this level) like marking kill targets. Even then tho, if we had tools to mark i still would have got blown up if we didnt have CC.

 

 

My experiences in this game so far is , i LOVE single player HATE grouping with people.

 

You can mark targets from level 1... Right click the image of the target, and assign it an image.

 

Ive done every heroic 2-4 in the game and it has been absurdly simple with me tanking and my brother healing. Im a guardian and so far its all been a breeze even with tanking 2-4 mobs at times

[tindin]

Yes, you read that correct. We are doing a heroic quest in nar shaddar and even with 2 healers focusing on me they cannot keep me alive, the grp requests me to "dude dont aggro so much" and i was invited as the tank!

 

I have 5k health at lvl 23 and a decent amount of defense and block, do healers need a buff? Did bioware intend these heroic quests to be two tanked and bouncing aggro all over the place just to survive?

 

First time ive ever been removed from a grp for being too good at my role. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

Yes, i am starting to think this game may be a bit too hard like others have said in this forum. Maybe healers need a buff....

 

if 2 healers couldnt keep you alive i dont realy think it was them

[Acupunk]

if 2 healers couldnt keep you alive i dont realy think it was them

 

^ this

 

OP you sound like a horrible tank and one that gives tanks a bad name. Your job is to protect the team. From your post I would have kicked you as well. Just because you roll a tank and can aggro does not mean you are a "great" tank.

[mocrasar]

as a trooper tank on nar shadaa i found the 4man+(mandalorian rage IIRC) to be VERY hard...

that was untill the commando offered CC and i began marking :

-cc target

-kill 1st

-kill 2nd

 

then it went much smoother and the healer was able to keep me up

 

so just mark the targets and (maybe) it'll go better

[Yaevinn]

Just because you have the aggro, doesn't mean you're doing your job well. There's more to tanking, than just taking it. You are to minimize the damage if possible by timing your CDs over the span of the fight.

[genesiser]

I don't know how they couldn't keep you alive.

 

I do heroic 4 missions and have done hammer station and athiss with a 3 man team. Myself (sabotage gunslinger, trooper tank, and a trooper healer that uses the robot you get from getting your ship as a healer pet) We just hit 22 last night.

 

Maybe those healers were just really bad. I dunno, but you should be able to stay alive no problem.

[Malaix]

I know operatives/scrapper and sage/sorc have a 1 minute long CC, that prob would have helped quite a bit. WoW has gotten people into the habit of one unkillable tank spamming high aggro AOE abilties while healer shoots a fountain of health at them and DPS runs around spamming rotations.

 

 

If the group was telling you you are pulling too much, you are prob pulling too much.

[Goonso]

Yes, you read that correct. We are doing a heroic quest in nar shaddar and even with 2 healers focusing on me they cannot keep me alive, the grp requests me to "dude dont aggro so much" and i was invited as the tank!

 

I have 5k health at lvl 23 and a decent amount of defense and block, do healers need a buff? Did bioware intend these heroic quests to be two tanked and bouncing aggro all over the place just to survive?

 

First time ive ever been removed from a grp for being too good at my role. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

Yes, i am starting to think this game may be a bit too hard like others have said in this forum. Maybe healers need a buff....

 

Sorry, but holding aggro doesn't make you good. Just able to keep aggro. Also, so the healers couldn't keep you alive? Most likely they were dps spec but healing which leads to needing another dps spec with healing abilities to heal you.

 

I can't believe you made a thread for just this reason.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Goonso

[Fallenlore]

Yes, you read that correct. We are doing a heroic quest in nar shaddar and even with 2 healers focusing on me they cannot keep me alive, the grp requests me to "dude dont aggro so much" and i was invited as the tank!

 

I have 5k health at lvl 23 and a decent amount of defense and block, do healers need a buff? Did bioware intend these heroic quests to be two tanked and bouncing aggro all over the place just to survive?

 

First time ive ever been removed from a grp for being too good at my role. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

Yes, i am starting to think this game may be a bit too hard like others have said in this forum. Maybe healers need a buff....

 

I generally tend to come off the wrong way, and it may be reflected in my post. But bear with me, I have some good tidbits. Also this post annoyed me enough to post on.

 

First on all Heroic quests (ones that say Heroic +4) are as difficult as Flashpoints. Since the size of those Heroics are 4 people and the same goes for FPs, treat them as instanced FPs scattered through the maps. In essence they are the same difficulty level.

 

Your role is a tank. That does not mean you can actually tank everything all at once. Wow has diluted you into zerging groups and groups of mobs without CC. Break that habit and go back to Vanilla WoW where CC means wipe or not. Im 99% sure you were breaking all the CC's and THAT IS WHY YOU GOT KICKED. Don't blame them for kicking you, you really messed up for breaking CC. This isn't WoW, you have to abide by CC rules.

 

Ok, now that's off my chest. Some if not most of the Heroic 4+ areas have 4-5 ELITE or higher mobs. Chances are you have at least 2 people in your group that can CC. You may have a chance to die if you have 3 elites on you, but if you have 5 there no way anyone can keep you up. You HAVE to CC, it is mandatory to survive the pull.

 

There is an in-game marking system. For WoW I used Green Triangle and Moon for sheep, here I use the purple Cog and Lightning symbol. Use whatever you want, but the more CC the less damage you take, the easier it is to kill one mob down at a time.

 

What's easier, CC'ing 4 mobs and killing one at a time or trying to fight all 5 at once? The reason they kicked you (I'll say it again) is because WoW has made you throw away the CC mentality. You HAVE to do it in this game to make it through.

 

Don't dilute yourself into thinking you did anything correctly. You tackled the problem completely wrong. You should always have one tank, one healer, and 2 dps. Having 2 healers makes killing mobs super slow. It's balanced around the 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps mentality. No you don't need 2 tanks or 2 healers. Just do what the encounters were designed to do (i.e. with CC's) and you'll make it out alive.

[Abaia]

A friend and I duoed Trouble in Deed last night (level 15 Heroic 4+). We were 17 and 18 so I figured we'd be ok.

 

The very first pull established the fact that a couple extra levels doesn't let you faceroll stuff in this game. I was playing my vanguard and he was on his smuggler (not sure the advanced class). He had his tank companion out; I used my healbot. We managed to power through the first couple pulls, but when we got to the 4 gold stars (elites?) in the second room after the entry hall, we wiped 3 or 4 times.

 

Eventually we started actually thinking about what we were doing and managed to get to the boss without another wipe. Marking targets, planning CC, and sharing aggro with his tank companion did wonders.

 

The last boss took another 3 or 4 wipes. We finally got him by using stances to swap aggro between myself and his companion. Best of all, our super duper boss loot was a set of shiny light armor gloves! Super! (At least the orange reward armor from the quest looks awesome.)

 

Bottom line, we made things hard on ourselves by stubornly 2-manning it, but it was a great learning experience and actually a lot of fun.

[Arugess]

I think most everyone said it already.

 

I was part of the "Paladin wave" of tanks during TBC. Super fun, but you had to be geared for it, and know your stuff.

 

No other game is like that.

 

Tanking in every other game requires CC, main tanks and off tanks, etc..

 

Understanding that 102.4 doesn't apply to SWTOR lends the understanding that you can't just aggro everything.

 

Even when I play a tanking spec right now, my buddy and I are able to duo everything within our level range (22 right now), even heroic 4-mans - but because we make sure to use CC and spread aggro evenly across our two tanks (Qyzen and Vanguard me).

[Kantoro]

Judging from your responses, the problem wasn't them. Check your ego, learn to mark, CC and play the correct way, not the WoW way.

 

If you learned to tank playing WoW anytime after WotLK was released, learn all over again. WoW makes people stupid.

[Covaloch]

Trolled so good it's actually funny. Kudos to op.

[Spyde]

To OP..

 

Learn to play.

 

If your a Tank.. Learn who Has CC.

 

Learn to Mark targets.. (Right click on their picture and you can mark pre fight)

 

Sorc has a CC

Merc Has a CC

Operative Has a CC

Sniper Can CC droids

Marauder Can CC Droids

 

You had 2 healers.

 

You had 2x CC's.

 

Even on a 4 gold pull, you should have never been tanking more then 2 at a time.

 

Are you sure they didn't CC and you kept breaking it to tank them all ?

Edited December 28, 2011 by Spyde

[Arathea]

I've tanked ever groupcontent available on the Empire side up till Voss (where I am currently). Including all heroic 4's (soloed most 2's) and all Flashpoints (up to my levelrange).

 

I play a Tank Assassin.

 

In my experience, by the time a single group of mobs have the potential to burn me down even tho I have heals, the party has enough CC. I did not experience the need for CC untill I was right below 30 (I think first real fight I really felt the need of CC was in last room before last boss in Athiss. Those guys hit hard.)

 

I hate to make assumptions but if you died tanking with two healers at your back I see only two possible reasons (and two half-possible). I will present them here, aswell as some advice on how to prevent it.

 

1. You pulled too much. Be it more than one group of mobs or one group and a tough patrol.

Try taking it a bit slow, makes sure that if a fight moves (through knockbacks and whatnot) it moves in the direction you have already cleared. If there are patrols, try to engage and kill only the patrol.

 

It's your job as tank to make sure you fight what you can handle. If a patrol comes wandering into the a pull halfway through, then it's on you. Healer keeps his eyes on healthbars. Never expect DPS to keep eyes on anything but damagemeters (or their bellybutton as they have no damagemeter in this game). It's up to you to have all the awareness. It's arguably more important than ability to hold every last bit of aggro.

 

2. You simply didn't have enough mitigation to tank the content.

Try looking over your talents. Have you missed or skipped some that help you mitigate damage. Be it defense, shield rating, absorb rating, armor rating, internal / elemental resistance, flat damage reduction or debuffing aim or damage of your enemies.

 

Try looking over your gear. It's pretty impossible to not stack stamina in this game and I understand what you said about not many pieces having +defense at your level. Make sure you are wearing the heaviest possible armor and have a shield equipped.

 

Try looking over your rotation of abilities. Are you leaving out any abilities that helps the mitigation. Be it defense, shield rating, absorb rating, armor rating, internal / elemental resistance, flat damage reduction or debuffing aim or damage of your enemies.?

 

Half-possible reason 1.

The mobs you were fighting had too much sustained dps. Beeing as you had a tank, two healers and one DPS maybe you didn't kill the mobs fast enough. Your healers ran out of whatever resource they use and you went down.

 

I find this highly unlikely as from what I have seen resource management is fairly easy in this game. Unless you had two overhealing mercs.

 

If this was the problem, make sure a group has tank, healer and two dps. IF you bring two healers make sure they are different classes as many heal-effects don't stack.

 

Half-possible reason 2.

The game is fairly new and you encountered content that is just too hard for your level.

 

Come back later and clear it if you feel the need. This only applies if you are on the Republic side as I know this to not be the case on Empire side.

 

 

Just my 50 öre.

[HyperBlink]

As a healer I can tell you what frustrates me...

 

I did a flaspoint last night and was invited as the healer (tho I'm dam spec'd). the other 3 in the group all knew eachother IRL and were Skypeing so I was the only one typing which made it harder since they would all just say "Go" and leap in...

 

I would tell them not to hit the lightsaber painted targets because I would CC specific threats but they would AoE bomb everything anyway, etc. Our tank (Jugg) would jump in before any kind of shield or CC's were down, I would then have to go into panic mode to keep him alive and he was so poor at holding control I would then come under heavy fire and have to spam heal myself before I die. Needless to say it was a mess the whole way through.

 

In the specific case of "being too good" this team would tell me "Just heal the tank, do your job." I was constantly reprimanded and using actual forethought was forbade. One of the worst teaming experiences of my life. The final fight included 5 team wipes before they began to listen to me and the first time they allowed us to set up properly (sniper got into a safe position, told the tank where to set up so we avoid getting AoE'd, allowed me to shield the tank before a fight, CC's were cast) no one dipped under 75% health.

 

Now if this was the case in your group, could just be a horrible group.

[eightohfive]

Yes, you read that correct. We are doing a heroic quest in nar shaddar and even with 2 healers focusing on me they cannot keep me alive, the grp requests me to "dude dont aggro so much" and i was invited as the tank!

 

I have 5k health at lvl 23 and a decent amount of defense and block, do healers need a buff? Did bioware intend these heroic quests to be two tanked and bouncing aggro all over the place just to survive?

 

First time ive ever been removed from a grp for being too good at my role. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

Yes, i am starting to think this game may be a bit too hard like others have said in this forum. Maybe healers need a buff....

 

How many groups of mobs were you pulling at once? I haven't seen any heroic mobs that hit hard enough for a group to need 2 healers to keep someone up. If you were pulling two groups or more of mobs at one time that would explain the difficulty. If you were just doing one group at a time, then yeah your party mates were scrubs.

[ViskarNogame]

Yes, you read that correct. We are doing a heroic quest in nar shaddar and even with 2 healers focusing on me they cannot keep me alive, the grp requests me to "dude dont aggro so much" and i was invited as the tank!

 

I have 5k health at lvl 23 and a decent amount of defense and block, do healers need a buff? Did bioware intend these heroic quests to be two tanked and bouncing aggro all over the place just to survive?

 

First time ive ever been removed from a grp for being too good at my role. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

Yes, i am starting to think this game may be a bit too hard like others have said in this forum. Maybe healers need a buff....

 

As someone who's been tanking for 9 years in MMOs now I will say "You're the problem." They booted you because you were overly antsy when pulling. I chain pull like a beast, but why pull one with the original isn't dead? Not like this game has TONS of AE damage. If you're taking huge damage, than one mob is enough. Not to mention heroic quest mobs hit like champs.

 

tl;dr version - Get over yourself. You got kicked for 'thinking' you were too good. The difference between confidence, and cockiness, is the ability to back it up. You didn't.

[ferroz]

We (lvl 23-25) kicked a tank from our (Heroic 4) group because he kept braking CC.

He was probably a fine tank, but he kept trying to tank 3-4 guys at a time and expected our group which had two Sith Inquisitors healing, to keep him alive.

 

Sounds like you just need to increase your knowledge of which classes can CC and what type of CC it is. Here's a head start. Sith Assassins can only CC mobs that are out of combat. 60sec duration.

interesting... that's almost the mirror situation of what the OP is reporting...

[Windkull]

I mostly tank in groups as a deception assassin (good tank gear though), it is kinda frustrating that people still break CC so often but as the content gets harder people stop doing it as often. I hate marauders who jump in and expect me to pull agro off them though, especially because I have to stealth in for the force regen at the start of fight to pump damage to grab agro quite often.

 

Even still, I don't think I've found a single fight where I couldn't mass mind control a whole pull, overload, and kite until the non elites were dead if we really screw up a pull... I can always pop deflection early as I tank even 6-7 enemies and generally live long enough to get healed. Use your stuns, use your skills like low blow, and make damn sure to use your interupts and you should be fine.