Update on Sentinel and Marauder

[Atlanis]

This is the most ridiculous post anyone of the community team or the developer ever made. EVER.

The stunlocking Operatives making people unsub post is close, but it doesn't beat this one.

 

In all seriousness, if you think Marauders/Sentinels are performing well, you have literally no clue at all.

I think the difference between the highest rated Marauder (1884) and the highest rated of the other classes (especially Sin with 2907) should give you a SLIGHT (just VERY slight) hint how ridiculously wrong you are if you think you achieved anything close to balance.

 

I'm not gonna give up all hope yet, since you said you wanna focus on mobility, utility and self-healing, but I'm not far from giving up. The statistics you posted make no sense at all. Yes, Sentinels don't need big DPS buffs, that's true, but this data you're referring to is absolutely ridiculous. You just need to look at the leaderboards once.

 

I've been in the top 10 for Season 1 and 2 with my Marauder/Sent in group ranked (inactive during Season 3) and the difference from back then to now is absolutely astonishing. There is no variety in ranked, only double Sin, and group ranked is dying because of this. I think it's pointless to waste any more words for you, it's gonna fall on deaf ears anyway.

 

I sign it he is one of the 10 best Sent/Maras in PvP and he has been always. You should maybe listen to him;-)

 

Srry, for doublepost^^

Edited April 6, 2015 by Atlanis

[Khryn]

Well. The positive? At least they opened up to us.

 

The negative? The response is a ridiculously naive and negative answer. I'm looking at the highest rank

Sent/Mara and it's not indicating to me that they have a solid 50%+ win rate. They are pretty low on the

boards.

 

I try to go by the belief that the company has access to statistics and such that we don't, but from my chair

Sentinels are way below par.

 

I recently switched back to Kinetic Combat Shadow. That's the Shadow's tank spec... And I LOVE it when a Sent/Mara attacks me. It's an easy kill. Always. I have no fear from them 1v1. In fact I'm pretty sure I could take on 2 at the same time and not break a sweat. As a Shadow I get more kills, more damage, with less deaths than I ever did on my Sentinel. And the sad thing is I really like my Sentinel. I won't stop playing it, but Shadow, Operative, and Guardian/Jugg are far and away easier and better classes.

 

Sidenote: I'm a PvP whore, I do bare minimum PvE, so this is based nearly solely off PvP experience.

Sidenote 2: So this is what is under the rug.

[Costello]

Please can you get the combat team to come in and give a sent/marauder master class. Cause the community does not appear to agree with your findings. I am willing to suggest that after 3 years I need to learn to play, I'm willing to concede that no one else plays marauders in my guild on raids as personal preference and finding them too easy to play. But then I am missing a fundamental design of the carnage spec marauder and would really appreciate the combat team letting us know whats going wrong.

 

HM raiding is a really unenjoyable experience when you feel like a burden and I would be very happy for the combat team to say we are all wrong, as they have done. If they then back it up with something we can see, hows about a live stream on you taking 4 sent/marauders through a hard mode op this Friday and show us how easy it is. Or maybe ranked PvP with 2 sent/marauders?

 

To say the combat team have misread the situation as it stands seems to be an understatement.

[ronniehenlau]

I find it amusing that people seem to think anecdotal evidence trumps raw data. Obviously bioware tracks spec win rates behind the scenes, and trying to argue that anecdotal evidence of marauders being bad means nothing if in reality watchman is the "seventh most winning spec"

 

you can't argue with raw data, particularly when most players never bother to read more than the first page of the leaderboard and don't have access to the spec data.

 

Also I'm guessing when they say win rate they mean a raw count of matches involving a combat sentinel, as has nothing to do with the ELO rating.

 

Completely true. Here is some raw data for you, from their leaderboards (sorry about terribru formatting, they dont support tables as bb code ):

 

Top 100, solo:

 

Class Amount TotalWins Avg.Wins

Juggernaut 2 576 288.0000

Operative 5 1382 276.4000

Sorcerer 13 3070 236.1538

Assassin 18 4237 235.3889

Shadow 16 3316 207.2500

Guardian 3 603 201.0000

Sage 9 1791 199.0000

Powertech 23 4492 195.3043

Mercenary 2 350 175.0000

Scoundrel 3 524 174.6667

Vanguard 14 2257 161.2143

Commando 2 316 158.0000

 

 

 

 

Top 500, solo

 

Class Amount TotalWins Avg.Wins

Sorcerer 55 7430 135.0909

Juggernaut 15 1997 133.1333

Guardian 17 2246 132.1176

Assassin 89 11362 127.6629

Operative 22 2706 123.0000

Sentinel 3 353 117.6667

Powertech 90 10271 114.1222

Sage 51 5595 109.7059

Shadow 79 8654 109.5443

Scoundrel 15 1610 107.3333

Gunslinger 8 817 102.1250

Sniper 4 404 101.0000

Vanguard 54 5248 97.1852

Mercenary 12 1099 91.5833

Marauder 5 447 89.4000

Commando 15 1254 83.6000

 

 

 

Top 1000, solo

 

Class Amount TotalWins Avg.Wins

Assassin 153 14912 97.4641

Sorcerer 127 12206 96.1102

Operative 44 4187 95.1591

Juggernaut 41 3860 94.1463

Sentinel 13 1209 93.0000

Marauder 8 729 91.1250

Guardian 40 3596 89.9000

Scoundrel 27 2343 86.7778

Powertech 147 12583 85.5986

Shadow 156 12861 82.4423

Commando 26 2069 79.5769

Sniper 12 949 79.0833

Sage 114 8275 72.5877

Vanguard 104 7547 72.5673

Gunslinger 22 1572 71.4545

Mercenary 23 1398 60.7826

 

 

 

Total, solo

 

 

Class Amount TotalWins Avg.Wins

Shadow 1633 31474 19.2737

Assassin 2445 44952 18.3853

Powertech 1395 24786 17.7677

Vanguard 926 15007 16.2063

Sorcerer 2829 40140 14.1888

Juggernaut 1928 25720 13.3402

Guardian 1187 15733 13.2544

Gunslinger 376 4775 12.6995

Sage 1594 20003 12.5489

Sniper 610 6750 11.0656

Operative 1430 15345 10.7308

Marauder 866 8789 10.1490

Scoundrel 771 7279 9.4410

Mercenary 1073 8746 8.1510

Sentinel 662 5367 8.1073

Commando 677 5315 7.8508

Bounty Hunter 2 1 0.5000

Jedi Knight 2 0 0.0000

 

 

 

 

Top 100, group

 

Class Amount TotalWins Avg.Wins

Sniper 4 266 66.5000

Operative 8 504 63.0000

Juggernaut 2 123 61.5000

Sorcerer 14 728 52.0000

Powertech 20 1006 50.3000

Assassin 17 853 50.1765

Vanguard 8 368 46.0000

Sage 3 135 45.0000

Shadow 12 528 44.0000

Gunslinger 3 131 43.6667

Scoundrel 3 131 43.6667

Mercenary 5 214 42.8000

Sentinel 2 73 36.5000

Commando 2 68 34.0000

Guardian 3 91 30.3333

Marauder 1 27 27.0000

 

 

Top 500, group

 

Class Amount TotalWins Avg.Wins

Powertech 63 1923 30.5238

Sniper 16 474 29.6250

Sentinel 9 254 28.2222

Shadow 52 1338 25.7308

Assassin 71 1790 25.2113

Vanguard 40 979 24.4750

Operative 37 889 24.0270

Sorcerer 63 1459 23.1587

Mercenary 20 441 22.0500

Scoundrel 21 436 20.7619

Juggernaut 25 511 20.4400

Commando 16 313 19.5625

Sage 43 794 18.4651

Gunslinger 14 248 17.7143

Guardian 23 379 16.4783

Marauder 13 207 15.9231

 

 

 

 

 

Top 1000, group

 

Class Amount TotalWins Avg.Wins

Powertech 120 2316 19.3000

Sniper 30 556 18.5333

Assassin 131 2323 17.7328

Shadow 98 1722 17.5714

Operative 67 1127 16.8209

Vanguard 72 1199 16.6528

Sorcerer 126 1977 15.6905

Mercenary 39 553 14.1795

Sentinel 28 390 13.9286

Gunslinger 26 358 13.7692

Scoundrel 40 541 13.5250

Juggernaut 59 717 12.1525

Marauder 24 290 12.0833

Sage 89 1060 11.9101

Commando 39 444 11.3846

Guardian 52 537 10.3269

 

 

 

 

Total, group

 

Class Amount TotalWins Avg.Wins

Powertech 476 3324 6.9832

Shadow 422 2604 6.1706

Assassin 657 3720 5.6621

Vanguard 332 1869 5.6295

Sorcerer 755 3384 4.4821

Sniper 196 868 4.4286

Gunslinger 143 623 4.3566

Operative 425 1810 4.2588

Sage 470 1898 4.0383

Scoundrel 231 860 3.7229

Sentinel 159 565 3.5535

Juggernaut 506 1790 3.5375

Commando 224 761 3.3973

Marauder 190 631 3.3211

Mercenary 327 1062 3.2477

Guardian 358 1122 3.1341

 

 

 

 

Some more basic numbers:

 

Solo ranked, top 1000

 

Shadow 156

Assassin 153

Powertech 147

Sorcerer 127

Sage 114

Vanguard 104

Operative 44

Juggernaut 41

Guardian 40

Scoundrel 27

Commando 26

Mercenary 23

Gunslinger 22

Sentinel 13

Sniper 12

Marauder 8

 

 

Group ranked, top 1000

 

Assassin 131

Sorcerer 126

Powertech 120

Shadow 98

Sage 89

Vanguard 72

Operative 67

Juggernaut 59

Guardian 52

Scoundrel 40

Commando 39

Mercenary 39

Sniper 30

Sentinel 28

Gunslinger 26

Marauder 24

 

 

Tier 1, group ranked:

 

Assassin 340

Sorcerer 277

Powertech 241

Shadow 217

Operative 167

Vanguard 163

Sage 85

Sniper 81

Gunslinger 80

Scoundrel 71

Mercenary 71

Juggernaut 41

Sentinel 36

Guardian 21

Commando 14

 

 

Tier 1, solo ranked:

 

Powertech 2959

Assassin 2410

Shadow 1802

Vanguard 1586

Sorcerer 1480

Sage 1070

Operative 670

Scoundrel 453

Guardian 373

Commando 344

Mercenary 331

Juggernaut 255

Gunslinger 137

Sniper 93

Marauder 79

Sentinel 70

 

 

TL;DR:

There are more assassins/shadows than there are sages, operatives, scoundrels, guardians, commandos, mercenaries, juggernauts, gunslingers, snipers, marauders and sentinels that are getting the Tier 1 rewards. As a comparison, 4212 sins/shadows and 4545 pts/vanguards are getting T1 - 149 sentinels/maras are (in group ranked).

 

Game is balanced, metrics says its fine, carry on.

[bdatt]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but have to ask how many people in this thread actually read the post.

 

Raw dps is fine.

 

Utility especially mobility will be focus of improvements and is being tested.

 

I like the improved communication and hope it continues despite threads like this that result in rage.

[SeanFM]

Hahahahahahahaha... This is utterly ridiculous. Completely and utterly ridiculous. It's just baffling. Is this a late April Fools post?

[Nomaad]

I'll still play my marauder, unfortunately defiantly doesn't have the same feel as it used to, which sucks. Edited April 6, 2015 by Nomaad
error

[omeru]

Marauder/Sentinel PvP Viability:

As it presently stands, Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman are performing well in Solo Ranked and Group Ranked PvP, respectively.

-The SWTOR Combat Team

 

You just confirmed what everyone is thinking about you, so we should lower our expectation from you much more for next combat changes for pvp, so we should expect more nerf for sniper and mara and buff for sin-shadow and pt-vg.

You muct be high to say marauders did fine in ranked pvp. There are only 5 mara/sent who passes tier 1 requirements. It makes less than 0.33 mara sent per server and you think it is doing well?

April fool is over so you must be thinking there is no problem this ranked season. Wow, i would like to see your combat team, even a first grader would understand there is something wrong with this ranked season and you dont think there is so your combat team must be kindergardeners

[DobleNegative]

Just wanted to point out that this post was supposed to be have a portion dedicated to addressing the rotation of Annihilation/Watchman and whether or not we could expect improvements to the clunkiness and rage management of the spec. Morgenblue asked Musco to address this because the Annihilation/Watchman community has expressed that the new rotation is clunky and vanilla (read: boring) compared to the pre 3.0 playstyle. I want to see these questions answered in a direct manner more than any other issues mentioned here in this thread.

 

As for the PvP viability of maras/sents, I don't think they need a DPS buff because that would decrease 'time to kill' and would increase their parses. I think maras need uptime improvement and better utilities, or maybe other classes just need utility nerfs.

[-BlackDragon-]

lololololololololol be dis be a troll post from bw, rite? Edited April 6, 2015 by -BlackDragon-

[Atlanis]

@ronnie thx for showing that Erics numbers are basicly wrong, make sure to save that data somewhere on the computer until they fix it^^

[cs_zoltan]

TL;DR:

There are more assassins/shadows than there are sages, operatives, scoundrels, guardians, commandos, mercenaries, juggernauts, gunslingers, snipers, marauders and sentinels that are getting the Tier 1 rewards. As a comparison, 4212 sins/shadows and 4545 pts/vanguards are getting T1 - 149 sentinels/maras are (in group ranked).

 

Game is balanced, metrics says its fine, carry on.

 

So you say they should buff everything to Hatred level, and not nerfing Hatred to the target level? Mkay...

[-Yui-]

Hey Sentinel and Marauders. Let's all start afking in Warzones/Ranked so that Bioware will buff us based on their "metrics"!

 

I apologize in advance Eric, but this is actually one of the most out of touch posts in a long time. I'm going to politely rebut every single major point provided in this post, just because I've perhaps never seen a more misguided and plain out incorrect post by any developer team of any MMO or game.

 

Heck, I even resubbed just so I could reply to this.

 

Hey folks,

Marauder/Sentinel PvP Viability:

As it presently stands, Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman are performing well in Solo Ranked and Group Ranked PvP, respectively.

 

This is perhaps the most interesting line. Any Sentinel/Mara currently playing the game knows that Annihilation/Watchman is a joke of a spec for PvP. The only reason you might observe that they're performing somewhat well is because, quite literally, only a few fairly good players use that spec - and they use it quite sporadically (a hail to the good ol' days of Annihilation/Watchman pretty much). I guarantee you if you pull up your metrics, the spec % of Annihilation/Watchman of all other specs is less than 0.5%, and within the Sent/Mara ranked specs most likely <5%. Given the dearth of Ranked in this game, I'm not sure how you can draw any sort of conclusion from, presumably, a insanely small sample size. Or any statistical test in general.

 

We target a 50% win rate for each Discipline in PvP, and Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman are slightly above this ideal win rate. Carnage/Combat is the seventh most effective Discipline (out of 24 Imperial/Republic total Disciplines) with a win rate that is right on target. Annihilation/Watchman is ranked seventh in Solo Ranked PvP (out of 24 Imperial/Republic total Disciplines) with a win rate that is equally on target. Additionally, Carnage/Combat is currently in one of the top 5 Group Ranked PvP class compositions, and this composition has an 82.6% win rate. While win rates are not the sole variable that we balance PvP performance from, these numbers provide evidence of Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman viability in broad PvP scenarios.

 

These numbers don't provide much evidence of anything. Why not dig deeper into that win percentage. How many players of that win percentage are old players? How much of an exodus of "weaker" players has affected the Sentinel/Marauder class as a whole? Which part of that 82.6% win rate is one team continuously farming a far weaker team? I count myself as a fairly good Marauder, and quite honestly, 9/10 I recognize the other Sentinel/Marauder on the opposite team simply because they've been playing for 2+ years. Most of the players who can't make Sentinel/Marauder work simply don't play it. I know three or four players (who have been ranked top 5 in various seasons) who used to have a Marauder alt not even touch the class because of how useless the class has become. To put it bluntly, the win percentages are a result of skewed data. The effect of high quality Marauder/Sentinel players on the win percentage is immense. Here, class population loss vs. retain of highly ranked players or a comparison of total number of hours played on Marauder/Sentinel vs. pre-2.8 Marauder/Sentinel (you can normalize this to overall game population if you want) will be indicative of this, of which I am fairly certain. I have gone nights where I was the only Marauder on both teams. And this is in Warzones. You don't need statistical analysis to know something is wrong here (kind of interesting tidbit, as Sentinel/Marauder was formerly perhaps the third most popular class). For many players, there is little to no incentive to play the class, and even good ones believe that the class is atrocious relative to almost any other class/spec in the game.

 

Fury/Concentration is in the lower half of the PvP spectrum. Like other classes that are underperforming, this is, and shall continue to be, addressed in upcoming class balance updates.

 

This is another line which simply shows that you guys actually don't PvP on Sentinel/Marauder. I'm not saying this in a patronizing way -- it's the truth and you guys should own up to it.

 

Fury/Concentration outperforms Annihilation/Watchman. Your use of "metrics" is interesting here because that's an unequivocal truth. The main reason why your data might show otherwise is that Fury/Concentration is a popular spec for beginning players. Contrary to your spec goals provided in the original post, Fury/Concentration has a easier time than Carnage/Combat simply because its a priority system. Most of the original Marauders still stick with Carnage simply because it has been the "to-go" PvP spec for the past two years. With so few Marauders/Sentinels left (and what remains mostly of more veteran players), the effect of this on win percentage is immense, meaning higher than actual win % for Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman than Fury/Concentration. You might have noticed some confusion on the PTS when many Marauders/Sentinels were wondering why Fury/Concentration was chosen to be buffed instead of fixing Carnage/Combat or Annihilation/Watchman. Metrics can be wrong, as it is in this case (or in any case in your post, in general).

 

While we plan to adjust Marauders/Sentinels in future updates, we do not expect to see any Marauder/Sentinel Disciplines receiving significant damage output increases. Each of the Disciplines is presently performing at our desired DPS markers, and we plan to focus on Utility in the future. Specifically, mobility and self-healing improvements are currently being tested. We’ll keep you up to date on changes in the coming weeks.

 

If we are performing at your desired DPS markers than you might want to buff us a bit, because (I'm going to repeat this ad nauseum) good players are significantly pulling up your metrics. If I go on my Sin I will guarantee you I'll hit 2.2k in any given game. Ditto for Lightning. Ditto for Virulence. Ditto for Lethality (well, perhaps 2k). While on my Mara I count any game above 1.8k a decent game. There is a clear DPS discrepancy, and I imagine if you looked at Marauder players who have multiple other classes and normalized that data, you would see Marauders/Sentinels under-performing.

 

It should be noted that PvP success is continually changing as updates reach live and the community learns new strategies with their classes.

 

These "strategies" take no time to learn. You have made no significant changes with the class (if anything, made each spec easier with 3.0). Adding a heal onto a defensive cooldown does not change our game-play whatsoever. Neither does immunity on Force Crush/Exhaustion.

 

 

Looking forward, we will continue to incrementally improve the status of Marauder/Sentinel Disciplines that are not performing to satisfaction. This is the perspective that we hold for all Disciplines across all classes.

 

We will continue to collect constructive feedback from the threads, concerning all classes, and apply improvements through our continual class balancing updates.

 

-The SWTOR Combat Team

 

It is difficult not to read these final lines with a sense of disappointment. I'm sorry SWTOR Combat Team, but you have failed miserably. I have to say, good luck to whatever is left of the Marauder/Sentinel community, but I think I'm done with the class for a bit. Why spend so much effort for such little gain and no possible hope for a better result in the future?

 

The only thing this post accomplished was to crush the hopes of a few thousand players. For the sake of the future of SWTOR, I hope the rest of your "updates" aren't as misguided as this one.

Edited April 6, 2015 by -Yui-

[Kyuuu]

Do you's actual play the this game you are supposedly balancing? or do you just let "numbers" do the work for you?

[Wriwnas]

This is the most ridiculous post anyone of the community team or the developer ever made. EVER.

In all seriousness, if you think Marauders/Sentinels are performing well, you have literally no clue at all.

I think it's pointless to waste any more words for you, it's gonna fall on deaf ears anyway.

 

And exactly how many marauders play pvp atm? Especially compared to other classes?

 

And how many marauders do pve HM ops atm? Yes, PVE operations.I will repeat that. PVE, I am talking about the % of the game that you totaly ignored when designed those disciplines, fight mechanics and ofc.. this post.

 

I have been maining a marauder since day 1, cleared everything up until recently in 8man ops (and most in 16).

And since 3.0... after I spent a couple of weeks unable to raid with my marauderS and my sentinel and even with my jugg tank... I now raid with my Powertech. The one that I had lying around only cause after all these years we all have leveled everything out of boredom.

So...

STOP making posts that humiliate you.

It's more than obvious that you guys dont play the game, don't like the game, dont care about this game and you are either clueless or just lying to our faces.

I have invested so much time in this game already and compared to you, I do love it. But I barely log anymore.. and when I do.. Im mostly half afk...cause there is NOTHING to DO.

Get you stuff together and fix the game for both pve and pvp or admit that you dont care and you are just waiting for the game to die (like toRhead) so that you can bring down the servers.

P.S. If you would bother to follow the few good/well known guilds that also stream, u would know by now that everyone agrees with us.

[Atlanis]

So ronnie in his post a page back just showed you got fake stattistics, care to defend yourselves?

[Costello]

Hey Sentinel and Marauders. Let's all start afking in Warzones/Ranked so that Bioware will buff us based on their "metrics"!

 

I apologize in advance Eric, but this is actually one of the most out of touch posts in a long time. I'm going to politely rebut every single major point provided in this post, just because I've perhaps never seen a more misguided and plain out incorrect post by any developer team of any MMO or game.

 

Heck, I even resubbed just so I could reply to this.

 

 

 

This is perhaps the most interesting line. Any Sentinel/Mara currently playing the game knows that Annihilation/Watchman is a joke of a spec for PvP. The only reason you might observe that they're performing somewhat well is because, quite literally, only a few fairly good players use that spec - and they use it quite sporadically (a hail to the good ol' days of Annihilation/Watchman pretty much). I guarantee you if you pull up your metrics, the spec % of Annihilation/Watchman of all other specs is less than 0.5%, and within the Sent/Mara ranked specs most likely <5%. Given the dearth of Ranked in this game, I'm not sure how you can draw any sort of conclusion from, presumably, a insanely small sample size. Or any statistical test in general.

 

 

 

These numbers don't provide much evidence of anything. Why not dig deeper into that win percentage. How many players of that win percentage are old players? How much of an exodus of "weaker" players has affected the Sentinel/Marauder class as a whole? Which part of that 82.6% win rate is one team continuously farming a far weaker team? I count myself as a fairly good Marauder, and quite honestly, 9/10 I recognize the other Sentinel/Marauder on the opposite team simply because they've been playing for 2+ years. Most of the players who can't make Sentinel/Marauder work simply don't play it. I know three or four players (who have been ranked top 5 in various seasons) who used to have a Marauder alt not even touch the class because of how useless the class has become. To put it bluntly, the win percentages are a result of skewed data. The effect of high quality Marauder/Sentinel players on the win percentage is immense. Here, class population loss or a comparison of total number of hours played on Marauder/Sentinel vs. pre-2.8 Marauder/Sentinel (you can normalize this to overall game population if you want) will be indicative of this, of which I am fairly certain. I have gone nights where I was the only Marauder on both teams. And this is in Warzones. You don't need statistical analysis to know something is wrong here (kind of interesting tidbit, as Sentinel/Marauder was formerly perhaps the third most popular class). For many players, there is little to no incentive to play the class, and even good ones believe that the class is atrocious relative to almost any other class/spec in the game.

 

 

 

This is another line which simply shows that you guys actually don't PvP on Sentinel/Marauder. I'm not saying this in a patronizing way -- it's the truth and you guys should own up to it.

 

Fury/Concentration outperforms Annihilation/Watchman. Your use of "metrics" is interesting here because that's an unequivocal truth. The main reason why your data might show otherwise is that Fury/Concentration is a popular spec for beginning players. Contrary to your spec goals provided in the original post, Fury/Concentration has a easier time than Carnage/Combat simply because its a priority system. Most of the original Marauders still stick with Carnage simply because it has been the "to-go" PvP spec for the past two years. With so few Marauders/Sentinels left (and what remains mostly of more veteran players), the effect of this on win percentage is immense, meaning higher than actual win % for Carnage/Combat and Annihilation/Watchman than Fury/Concentration. You might have noticed some confusion on the PTS when many Marauders/Sentinels were wondering why Fury/Concentration was chosen to be buffed instead of fixing Carnage/Combat or Annihilation/Watchman. Metrics can be wrong, as it is in this case (or in any case in your post, in general).

 

 

 

If we are performing at your desired DPS markers than you might want to buff us a bit, because (I'm going to repeat this ad nauseum) good players are significantly pulling up your metrics. If I go on my Sin I will guarantee you I'll hit 2.2k in any given game. Ditto for Lightning. Ditto for Virulence. Ditto for Lethality (well, perhaps 2k). While on my Mara I count any game above 1.8k a decent game. There is a clear DPS discrepancy, and I imagine if you looked at Marauder players who have multiple other classes and normalized that data, you would see Marauders/Sentinels under-performing.

 

 

 

These "strategies" take no time to learn. You have made no significant changes with the class (if anything, made each spec easier with 3.0). Adding a heal onto a defensive cooldown does not change our game-play whatsoever. Neither does immunity on Force Crush/Exhaustion.

 

 

 

It is difficult not to read these final lines with a sense of disappointment. I'm sorry SWTOR Combat Team, but you have failed miserably. I have to say, good luck to whatever is left of the Marauder/Sentinel community, but I think I'm done with the class for a bit. Why spend so much effort for such little gain and no possible hope for a better result in the future?

 

The only thing this post accomplished was to crush the hopes of a few thousand players. For the sake of the future of SWTOR, I hope the rest of your "updates" aren't as misguided as this one.

 

Combat team Please Please read this.

 

I haven't spoiler tagged this cause I don't think the devs read the forums let alone bother to open a tag up. But I live in hope they may just read feedback based on playing and not taking some metrics into account.

[Nomaad]

Don't worry guys, they will come out with a shiny new pack on the cartel market and you will all just carry on as if nothing ever happened.

[Kyuuu]

And exactly how many marauders play pvp atm? Especially compared to other classes?

 

And how many marauders do pve HM ops atm? Yes, PVE operations.I will repeat th.

 

 

um next to none except the super hard core people. Marauders are just stun bate in pvp, pve hm content hah, my marauder is geared for hm content but most people dont want marauders in hm of the new ops, they want range cause new ops arnt even friendly to melee.

 

My own guilds progressive leader who actual cleared the new ops in hm with his progressive guild all but told me to play my jugg or sin.

[Floplag]

i am terrible concerned with the use of win rate to qualify all this as that has far too much luck factor involved as there are 7 or 15 other people that determine win rates. There has to be more to it, yes?

[Costello]

um next to none except the super hard core people. Marauders are just stun bate in pvp, pve hm content hah, my marauder is geared for hm content but most people dont want marauders in hm of the new ops, they want range cause new ops arnt even friendly to melee.

 

My own guilds progressive leader who actual cleared the new ops in hm with his progressive guild all but told me to play my jugg or sin.

 

Yeah I am the only marauder that raids in my guild and I am feeling like its not fair on them to have to worry about my mdps.

 

As for PvP I used to by I wouln't even bother as things are at the moment for carnage. Last thing I want is my own team to hate me and the enemy side being so happy easy kill marauder was there to bonus their kills.

 

Any high kill rate is only cause people ignore marauders cause their damage is so low they can then snipe some kills where others have done the main work.

 

So please BW stop judging everything but metrics cause they are in this case not telling you the full story. The few people left playing this class are telling you its bad. The numbers in end game raids and PvP should tell you the same story.

[Kyuuu]

My favorite class and i dont play it anymore for raiding or pvp cause in

 

PVP its just stun bate with no knockback immunity of anykind that allows us to keep attacking, will other classes have 12 sec of immunity and a free attack people. sure they can put out nice number but only if they actual have uptime most the time there cc/stuned/ knocked back

 

And in PVE the class it just not wanted. how unfriendly they are for melee again can put at nice numbers but only if they have uptime.

 

And I dont even think i good a marauder class.

 

I know play my sin or jugg

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Yeah I am the only marauder that raids in my guild and I am feeling like its not fair on them to have to worry about my mdps.

 

As for PvP I used to by I wouln't even bother as things are at the moment for carnage. Last thing I want is my own team to hate me and the enemy side being so happy easy kill marauder was there to bonus their kills.

 

Any high kill rate is only cause people ignore marauders cause their damage is so low they can then snipe some kills where others have done the main work.

 

So please BW stop judging everything but metrics cause they are in this case not telling you the full story. The few people left playing this class are telling you its bad. The numbers in end game raids and PvP should tell you the same story.

 

Well, maybe if we boycott the class, maybe something will be done?

[AngusFTW]

Judging this class by these metrics is the most stupid thing i've ever heard in my life.

 

There was a point in this season where my 2nd sentinel on tre was top 5 (or close to top 5) for group ranked for a brief period of time a few weeks ago after playing five.... FIVE.... FIVE... only 5 games with slinger/sent setup and winning on tre kickball with like 1400 rating. Class SO popular in team ranked xD. (Then i ruined it by agreeing to run double sentinel next time around but thats another story.. ;_: )

 

tldr barely anyone actually plays this class in ranked anymore...

Edited April 6, 2015 by AngusFTW

[ronniehenlau]

So you say they should buff everything to Hatred level, and not nerfing Hatred to the target level? Mkay...

 

How did you get that? Im very curious - my point was quite simply that the outliers are *that* far apart. There are 30 times more pt/vg in top 1000 than there are sents/maras, and you really feel that me pointing that out is a bad thing?