Update on Win-Trading and Griefing in Season 4

[DethlaHadyn]

The fact is they are not able to conclusively prove that a player wintraded.

 

Nor can they effectively disprove, without wasting a lot of time.

 

Here's what I propose. The only way to successfully flush out the trolls, is to identify who they're working for. Please use this link to our Galactic Yolostar Webpage Troll Patrol Forums for the link to each server's forum. There, you may feel free to post the games that you've had with the trolls on yours. The key of everybody getting onboard with this, is that we'll see who's on the other team when you've got a troll on yours.

 

With enough "coincidental evidence", we may begin to recognize some patterns.

 

 

 

Edit...I just loaded up the most recent three Bastion pics...hmm, you'll find the results quite amusing.

Edited March 11, 2015 by DethlaHadyn

[foxmob]

3. Are they seriously concerned about the BACKLASH from these few toxic players?

I think you missed the part where they nailed one of the better players in the game for being a "toxic" cheater. I mean...I can't guarantee he didn't cheat. but I've pvp'd with and against him and followed him on various streams for the better part of 3 years, and I never noticed anything.

 

don't get me wrong. I think their "warnings" are a joke too. but what the heck? the need to fix their system for detection first. all they've done here is prove that their methods of detection are really lousy.

[ImNotFatImObese]

Blaks post addresses the real problem in the game. Stuff that Eric and his band of trolls promote and encourage. Ignore the real world problems and cater to the cry babies. Like the girl in Victoria's Secret complaining that they don't have the bra to match her panties (typical first world problem mentality) which obviously roles over to this game. There are so many other things in this game that need fixed and addressed but some reason Eric and his Short Bus team like to address stupid crap. Just like exploits it is easier to blame the players and take action against them than it is the developers. A bunch NES vets stuck on God Mode in real life. Every time those devs touch this game they screw it up more and more. There are less ops groups forming since 3.0 than there was before 3.0. Again that is what they are aiming for. Run off enough people then they can justify shutting the servers off on a game that was flawed from the start. I haven't played in a month cause they keep screwing this game up.

[DarthVengeant]

Of all the things to worry about in the game...

[AxeDragoneth]

Of all the things to worry about in the game...

 

Yeah, worrying about people who single-handedly ruin the fun for entire servers at a time is soooo trivial. =/

[DethlaHadyn]

Blaks post addresses the real problem in the game. Stuff that Eric and his band of trolls promote and encourage. Ignore the real world problems and cater to the cry babies. Like the girl in Victoria's Secret complaining that they don't have the bra to match her panties (typical first world problem mentality) which obviously roles over to this game. There are so many other things in this game that need fixed and addressed but some reason Eric and his Short Bus team like to address stupid crap. Just like exploits it is easier to blame the players and take action against them than it is the developers. A bunch NES vets stuck on God Mode in real life. Every time those devs touch this game they screw it up more and more. There are less ops groups forming since 3.0 than there was before 3.0. Again that is what they are aiming for. Run off enough people then they can justify shutting the servers off on a game that was flawed from the start. I haven't played in a month cause they keep screwing this game up.

 

You could do us all a favor, and not post for a month.

[CO_DAIGO]

What if we want our rating to be reset? Some of us have tanked to low to an accumulation of win trading and balance issues that resetting might actually be a plus. I love how someone that's only won 11 games can rank higher than someone who's won 60.

[ImNotFatImObese]

Here is an idea, instead of complaining about people in ranked pvp, try helping them with what to do with their gear and stuff. I mean it's not like there is a lot of pvp gearing info out there like there is pve. Unless you want to count Noxxic which is still pre 3.0 last i checked on the pvp end.

[AxeDragoneth]

Here is an idea, instead of complaining about people in ranked pvp, try helping them with what to do with their gear and stuff. I mean it's not like there is a lot of pvp gearing info out there like there is pve. Unless you want to count Noxxic which is still pre 3.0 last i checked on the pvp end.

 

Griefers just want to watch the world burn.

They know what they're doing.

[jediharrsion]

Hey folks,

 

As promised, we want to keep you informed on what we are doing about those win-traders and trolls in Ranked PvP. Here is what is happening right now:

 

• Win-traders – We have been reviewing multiple sets of data, along with the private reports that many of you have been sending to the team. Any player who, through validating data, is win-trading is receiving will be receiving at a minimum, a warning. Not only are we warning these users to stop what they are doing, continued win-trading will lead to greater actions including resetting their ratings and suspension time.
  
• Griefer – Those players that seem to have that one singular purpose, to ruin the spirit of Ranked PvP. They refuse to participate, or they leave the match altogether. Those players will be receiving anything from a warning to suspension time based on the severity of their actions.
  

 

We will work to refine our data and our validation around players partaking in these actions throughout the Season. Those who feel the need to try to trade their way to the top, or try to ruin that experience for others will be actioned appropriately.

 

Thank you all for your continued reports around these issues. Get in there and fight each other as Baron Deathmark intended. See you in the Arena.

 

-eric

Hello eric I sent in some info on win traders/griefers on my server. But I am still seeing the suspected win traders/griefers on my server. I want to do ranked but I don't want to be griefed/or feel like I'm getting cheated by these win traders. I don't want to give up pvp all together. but I still want to get my ranked gear set(s) for my characters. I count this as the reason why I didn't get my furious lightsabers/those win traders did.

[emeraldon]

Here is an idea, instead of complaining about people in ranked pvp, try helping them with what to do with their gear and stuff. I mean it's not like there is a lot of pvp gearing info out there like there is pve. Unless you want to count Noxxic which is still pre 3.0 last i checked on the pvp end.

 

Noxxic is a horrible site to use for pretty much all games. They are ridiculously inaccurate.

 

The biggest issue with solo ranked isn't undergeared or new players. It's trolls and douches. VTake one of fguilds on TOFN; several members in their guild have one thing in mind when they queue solo: either just **** up for the team they end up on, or **** up for the team they end up on AND help their guildies / friends on the other team. Had a sorcerer join my team a few days ago and the first and only thing he did was run straight into the other team and die. 3k damage done total in both matches.

Edited March 11, 2015 by emeraldon

[Dage]

Any plans to update the report system? It's very unwieldy for reporting other players, and I think most people are put off from reporting altogether simply because of how much of a hassle it can be. Something similar to what many MOBAs currently have to report win-traders/griefers would be a step in the right direction.

[Yojiro]

If a slap on the wrist isn't good enough to begin with, it is even worse if they are aimed at the wrong players.

 

You need to shape up, BW.

[JeremyShelton]

Eric,

 

First off, I don't mind PvP. Its not my thing but some people like to do it. More power to them. That said, I seriously fail to see what the big deal is PvPers getting griefed. In fact I find it par for the course. After all you are picking fights with other players and they will respond back. It also raises questions about PvPers as a whole and the behavior as a group in general, but that is not the point of my response.

 

Why is it a single person on Jedi Covenant can get the Devs to do something; whereas a bunch of PvPers can trash the enjoyment of nearly every "event" baiting PvE players into accidental strikes, asking for a rez to flag a player, or hitting them with an AoE splash damage and not a dang thing gets done? Please note we are talking about a PvE server (Jedi Covenant) - on a PvP server, it's anything goes in my personal opinion. So if some 'jerk' opts to attempt to flag me out and is successful, my time and enjoyment gets disturbed in that I either can get gawked to death being flagged by a 4v1 (or worse) incident that is worse than a shower scene on Oz, or get to go sit in 'time out' for 5 mins to drop the flag.

 

Why not dedicate some resources to adding a "toggle" with a 24 hour 'no switch' if you change your stance? If you have it turned to "no PvP", its just that - you cannot enter pvp world zones, rez a flagged player, can't group with a flagged player, or the like. It is up to BW / EA if they want to allow for queuing for pvp or not. If you have it toggled to "allow PvP", then it would be like it is today.

 

Blak

 

Simple awareness can prevent you from being "flagged" for PvP on a PvE server. Little things like the character running around with name in YELLOW, don't shoot or you will be flagged. Manage AoEs if you see someone around with name in yellow. Switch instances or just don't use AoEs and you will be fine. I played on a PvE server for a couple months before 3.0 and never had an issue with being flagged for PvP if I didn't want to PvP.

 

In PvE operations, flashpoints, etc, you can vote kick someone for whatever reason, but in PvP warzones the offender just needs to do something, anything to prevent a vote kick. That something could be as simple as putting a bubble or shield on. Helps no one, you still aren't doing anything really and you are affecting at least 3 other players. You can't stop them from queing or control whether you get grouped with them except by not queing yourself which significantly affects your enjoyment of the game.

 

There are already multiple ways to toggle out of PvP in the open world with the first and best one being open your eyes and pay attention. Don't AoE everything, don't AoE around the yellow colored names, switch instances, time out for 5 minutes to reset flag, and simple awareness are all ways to control the PvP flag in open world.

[JeremyShelton]

This is ABSURD.

 

1.They clearly decided to go with a "light" punishment - that is not debatable.

 

2. Now you must ask- why?

 

3. Are they seriously concerned about the BACKLASH from these few toxic players?

 

How many people are upset about being warned for the actual offense of win trading or griefing? None. However, at least 2 legit and highly capable teams have been warned for being really good and beating the vast majority of their challengers. There is video evidence that there was no win trading occurring with these really good teams. That is the backlash going on. Good teams are being warned and basically penalized for being really good in a competition. Luckily, the first step was a warning for these teams even though they don't deserve it.

 

At a cursory glance, it is indistinguishable between real win traders and really good teams. The analysts have to look deeper into the data which they did not do.

[DartDaya]

What data can tell you how much EFFORT a person is putting in the game? Fair enough if they just stand there and do nothing. But how do you know they're deliberately playing badly so the other team can win? How do you even know if two people are helping each other win? What if they're using teamspeak, and never said a word to each other in game?

[JeremyShelton]

I fundamentally disagree with this perspective. If you are able to conclusively prove that a player is involved in win-trading, that player must have his/her rating reset. You can't accidently win-trade. There is no reason you should be lenient when issuing rating resets to proven win-traders.

 

The facts show that they are not able to conclusively prove that someone is involved in win trading. We know from this thread that at least 2 really good teams received warnings for what amounts to being legitimately really good at team ranked.

[Nohonor]

Dear EA/BioWare (or whoever gives a hoot),

 

Is it possible to take the initiative on your own to look at warzones and observe player behavior and actions while in the warzone. Just today I ran a few warzones to try to get some gear on my trooper this late in the season and my team won once in 7 warzones, barely sqeaking out that win. The other warzones contained so many overgeared or suspicious players that warzones will become a archaic form of pvp for me. Gear discrepancy is also obscene right now that if I was any other type of player I would quit ever trying to pvp.

 

Instead of putting a bandaid on this wound that clearly a large portion of your player base cares about, a revamp of how players are matched up would be incredible. Maybe even a cross server implementation for those servers who struggle with pvp player numbers..

 

I care about this game and want it to be better, the new expansion is quite impressive and well worth the money. If the pvp scenario had the same care and dedication that the story is given, we would all benefit. It shouldn't be too hard to revamp the pvp, since talents are changed or streamlined to be more helpful to the player. Why can't the environment be changed too?

Edited March 11, 2015 by Nohonor

[Jerba]

The only way to successfully flush out the trolls, is to identify who they're working for. Please use this link to our Galactic Yolostar Webpage Troll Patrol Forums for the link to each server's forum.

I really hope you are looking at more than their Expertise rating when determining if someone is a troll. I've seen plenty of non-elite players in Rated PvP. When I asked them, nearly all of the players with no PvP gear did not know what Rated PvP is or did not know they needed 2018 Expertise. Once I told them and they saw how quickly they died with no PvP gear, they stopped queueing for Rated and would not troll. In one of the previous seasons, I even forgot my PvP gear in the bank and entered with PvE gear myself but we won because the enemy team was bad.

Of all the players I met in Rated PvP, only one of them I'd consider a troll, he was stealthed out, doing nothing and waiting for the match to end. It was so frustrating that I even entered /say chat to tell the enemy where he was hiding so that the match would be over quickly and we wouldn't have to wait for the poisonous cloud.

Yes, there are trolls in PvP and having a scoreboard with 0 damage and 0 healing during multiple matches is a good way to prove it, but just because one does not have full Expertise, he is not a troll, he is merely a bad or unknowing player. Given how toxic the PvP community is, I can understand why new players get flamed and stop queueing after their first match; if you want to have more players in queue you need to tell them in a friendly way to get some 162 PvP gear and only then queue again.

 

To stay on topic, I still believe that they should just revamp the reward structure. The current tiers just tempt players to win trade their first ten matches, get top tier and stop queueing.

Before they start creating dev teams to investigate win trading and check which players receive suspensions, it would be easier to just change the rewards structure. Tie rewards to number of wins instead of rating, and you won't have so much trouble with win traders.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Jerba

[JeremyShelton]

What data can tell you how much EFFORT a person is putting in the game? Fair enough if they just stand there and do nothing. But how do you know they're deliberately playing badly so the other team can win? How do you even know if two people are helping each other win? What if they're using teamspeak, and never said a word to each other in game?

 

Computer data wouldn't tell the effort without looking deep into the information. In the warzone you see someone who quits the match right as the timer expires forcing you to fight a 3v4 for that first round is one of the indicators for a griefer. Win trading can be noticed by someone who immediately runs out and into the other team getting globaled immediately. Maybe they fired an auto attack, maybe not. There is always the /stuck method that has been reported by others. Sometimes this is just a bad or ignorant player, but in ranked matches that doesn't seem as likely because you do have to choose to queue up for ranked vice regs. It isn't so much playing badly that indicates, but the lack of playing. That's part of the reason there is a report and research function. Can BW/EA be effective at rooting out true win traders from simply really good or really bad players? Honestly, probably not that much. Griefing is another story entirely.

[DethlaHadyn]

I really hope you are looking at more than their Expertise rating when determining if someone is a troll. I've seen plenty of non-elite players in Rated PvP. When I asked them, nearly all of the players with no PvP gear did not know what Rated PvP is or did not know they needed 2018 Expertise. Once I told them and they saw how quickly they died with no PvP gear, they stopped queueing for Rated and would not troll. In one of the previous seasons, I even forgot my PvP gear in the bank and entered with PvE gear myself but we won because the enemy team was bad.

Of all the players I met in Rated PvP, only one of them I'd consider a troll, he was stealthed out, doing nothing and waiting for the match to end. It was so frustrating that I even entered /say chat to tell the enemy where he was hiding so that the match would be over quickly and we wouldn't have to wait for the poisonous cloud.

Yes, there are trolls in PvP and having a scoreboard with 0 damage and 0 healing during multiple matches is a good way to prove it, but just because one does not have full Expertise, he is not a troll, he is merely a bad or unknowing player. Given how toxic the PvP community is, I can understand why new players get flamed and stop queueing after their first match; if you want to have more players in queue you need to tell them in a friendly way to get some 162 PvP gear and only then queue again.

 

To stay on topic, I still believe that they should just revamp the reward structure. The current tiers just tempt players to win trade their first ten matches, get top tier and stop queueing.

Before they start creating dev teams to investigate win trading and check which players receive suspensions, it would be easier to just change the rewards structure. Tie rewards to number of wins instead of rating, and you won't have so much trouble with win traders.

 

 

 

Must be frustrating on your server, either that or you're easy to guile. At any rate, don't insult my intelligence..obvious troll is obvious.

 

Secondly, the whole rating system including rewards, need to totally be redone...like now.

[StepTNT]

So, after another 3 vs 4 WZ I decided to post my 2 cents, hoping that we can have something better for S5 (since S4 is already gone).

 

1) Remove the timer before starting the match and force the groups to use the Ready Check system. Each team has 30 seconds to answer, after that 30 seconds the match will end with a tie and with no rating lost. I'm tired of losing matches because people queue and then goes AFK.

 

2) Lock people out of queue if they quit during a match. We have this system for flashpoints, why not using it for Ranked too?

 

3) Review the rating system. ELO is fine for board games or 1 vs 1 games, not for a teams. My rating can't be based on how three random people play because this will make it just a matter of luck in getting a good team. Make it based on damage/protection/healing and medals. Rating should measure how I play, but now this isn't true.

 

That's all, 3 simple things that can make Ranked PvP better (imo).

 

EDIT: forgot number 4.

 

4) Gear check before being able to queue. 2018 expertise should be a must. I played with people in green gear during this season.

Edited March 11, 2015 by StepTNT

[JourrnoRush]

So, after another 3 vs 4 WZ I decided to post my 2 cents, hoping that we can have something better for S5 (since S4 is already gone).

 

1) Remove the timer before starting the match and force the groups to use the Ready Check system. Each team has 30 seconds to answer, after that 30 seconds the match will end with a tie and with no rating lost. I'm tired of losing matches because people queue and then goes AFK.

 

2) Lock people out of queue if they quit during a match. We have this system for flashpoints, why not using it for Ranked too?

 

3) Review the rating system. ELO is fine for board games or 1 vs 1 games, not for a teams. My rating can't be based on how three random people play because this will make it just a matter of luck in getting a good team. Make it based on damage/protection/healing and medals. Rating should measure how I play, but now this isn't true.

 

That's all, 3 simple things that can make Ranked PvP better (imo).

 

Some issues with this

 

1) People would just not vote if they knew they were not going to win, matches would be tied left and right.

 

2) Good idea, but have to address those who D/C. It happens, why punish a >1600 player because they had a D/C.

 

3) Good idea.

[StepTNT]

Some issues with this

 

1) People would just not vote if they knew they were not going to win, matches would be tied left and right.

 

2) Good idea, but have to address those who D/C. It happens, why punish a >1600 player because they had a D/C.

 

3) Good idea.

 

Well, I guess there's no perfect system but it can be improved.

 

1) You're correct, an idea would be to hide the other players and just show them once the Ready Check is done so that you don't know who your mates and enemies are and you can complete the Ready Check instead of using it to avoid a sure loss situation

 

2) I assume you're talking about disconnection issues. Anyways I'm talking about a 10 mins lock, it's not that much but it can stop trolls which are not likely to wait for 10 minutes. If a disconnection happens then there's really little to do but I agree on having it related to the rating. A >1600 is not a troll so he doesn't deserve punishment

[idnewton]

What if we want our rating to be reset? Some of us have tanked to low to an accumulation of win trading and balance issues that resetting might actually be a plus. I love how someone that's only won 11 games can rank higher than someone who's won 60.

 

Um.... lol. That's called life. Simply winning more games does not make you a better player, since you've clearly lost way more. Someone failed statistics class...